Post by: blackdog on October 01, 2015, 08:16:57 AM
Post by: luvmystang67 on October 01, 2015, 08:21:17 AM
Post by: blackdog on October 01, 2015, 08:32:27 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 01, 2015, 08:43:21 AM
Post by: timberfaller on October 01, 2015, 08:50:11 AM
EXCEPT
for ONE reason, To appease the Eco-Freak crowd :bash:
Just find a "contract" for a timber sale(getting scarcer by the day) or a fish project and READ it.
Post by: blackdog on October 01, 2015, 09:28:19 AM
Post by: 2MANY on October 01, 2015, 09:31:40 AM
Far too many people and far too few places to go.
Post by: Curly on October 01, 2015, 09:31:47 AM
Post by: huntrights on October 01, 2015, 09:36:14 AM
We need laws at the national, state, and local levels to place strict controls over the practice of the wholesale destruction of roads such as this. Congresswoman Jamie Herrera Beutler proposed a Roads-to-Trails approach around 2012; it's a good idea to prevent the destruction of roads that may be destine for decommissioning/destruction. She had a considerable amount of information on the subject.
Unless we push back with a united voice, the destruction and blockading of access to our public lands and waters will continue. What you saw in the video clip has occurred on other roads on our public lands. Similar actions like dumping large boulders along the road beds, digging moguls, cutting saplings and crisscrossing them on the road bed, or a variety of other destruction and blockade methodologies are turning road beds into areas that are nearly impossible for man or large animals to traverse safely. Deer, elk, and other ungulates will take the easier routes unless spooked and or forced to do otherwise; these destroyed paths are not friendly to man nor beast.
Blocking access to our public lands negatively affects hunters, anglers, hikers, campers, and all people that participate in any kind of recreation in the outdoors.
Post by: timberfaller on October 01, 2015, 09:24:27 PM
Its is called the "Federal Employee's Union"
and
All your Eco-freak groups "Attorneys"
They got their foot in the door back in the 70's, They now have just a generic "form letter" which at the first sign of something happening at any level of Forest activity, A "Injunction" is filed within 24 hours!
Until there is a way to get "third party law suits" against said attorney's YOU nor I will be able to do anything about it.
The only way the USFS can put out a timber sale around where I live, it to put it in an area that doesn't need to be logged(roads all ready exist and timber harvested earlier). Then and only then, so many miles of roads have to be "de-commissioned" will they even consider allowing the USFS to put it out for bid. 100% denial(court injunction filed) will occur if, in the "plans" for the sale have "road building" to allow access to harvest-able timber.
Again its ALL about "appeasing" the Eco-Freaks! Has nothing to do with what is right and wise management.
How is that possible to state? When a district is BROKE financially, can't maintain a "trail crew", close campgrounds and do early retirement buy outs, BUT gets $$$$$$$$$ directly from DC earmarked for "road dis-mantle-ling" :yike: its NOT rocket science!!
Post by: logger on October 07, 2015, 05:16:27 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 07, 2015, 06:10:06 PM
Post by: dscubame on October 07, 2015, 06:11:36 PM
I wish they would lock every gate and close every road.
Far too many people and far too few places to go.
Totally agree. Love seeing tank ditched reclaimed roads. Less roads the better especially for elk.
Post by: huntrights on October 08, 2015, 07:50:16 AM
No roads means no access for hunting, game retrieval, fishing, camping, cross-country skiing, horseback riding, etc. Everybody gets to park in parking lots if they are available or at the sides of the open roads if there is room; this includes all the people that think the roads should be closed and destroyed. Youth, elderly, and the disabled can forget about recreation in the outdoors because they can't get in. When a person is in their prime, full of energy, and physically capable, they can hike 20 miles in and out. Take note where the elk and deer trails are after a road has been destroyed; they're not over the ditches. moguls, boulders, and log piles; they're on the smoothest, least disturbed part of the road path remaining. We all lose.
There is lots of wilderness without roads for those who wish to go there. However, they should be physically and psychologically prepared, have the appropriate training, knowledge, and appropriate equipment, and be willing to make the trek.
Closing and destroying roads is a great way to destroy hunting, fishing, camping, and most outdoor recreation activities; the anti-hunters and environmental extremists love it.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 08, 2015, 08:02:17 AM
No roads means no access for hunting, game retrieval, fishing, camping, cross-country skiing, horseback riding, etc. Everybody gets to park in parking lots if they are available or at the sides of the open roads if there is room; this includes all the people that think the roads should be closed and destroyed. Youth, elderly, and the disabled can forget about recreation in the outdoors because they can't get in. When a person is in their prime, full of energy, and physically capable, they can hike 20 miles in and out. Take note where the elk and deer trails are after a road has been destroyed; they're not over the ditches. moguls, boulders, and log piles; they're on the smoothest, least disturbed part of the road path remaining. We all lose.
There is lots of wilderness without roads for those who wish to go there. However, they should be physically and psychologically prepared, have the appropriate training, knowledge, and appropriate equipment, and be willing to make the trek.
Closing and destroying roads is a great way to destroy hunting, fishing, camping, and most outdoor recreation activities; the anti-hunters and environmental extremists love it.
I'm sure happy you brought up the disabled. All these selfish hunters always want it their way, sorry, it don't work that way anymore. I bought an ATV to ride because I CANNOT hike anymore. I think they need to open MORE roads...
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 08, 2015, 06:59:56 PM
This burns my ass to no end!! I see it all the time, We have no funding! B.S! sitting on thousands of acres of funding, all the sales I have for them have road abandament icluded as part of the sale, sometimes 30 miles away, They just dug up 6 48in. culverts out of a perfectly good road that was well rocked, the reason, they don't have the money to maintain the road, yet they had the 150,000 to pull the pipes. frustrates me beyond beliefThe money part is a stretch when they toss it out. The FS for Olympic is planning to decom part of one of the roads (only like a half mile long). It goes past a popular trail head to a less popular one. The claim is it is too costly to keep that additional part of road. Supposedly the amount to decom that stretch would pay for thirty years of annual maintenance for it. But in removing the road they will also build a new, larger parking lot at the popular trail. Gotta be greenie concessions. :dunno:
Post by: Naches Sportsman on October 09, 2015, 08:15:22 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on October 09, 2015, 08:24:16 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 09, 2015, 08:31:55 PM
Post by: Curly on October 09, 2015, 08:34:51 PM
Post by: logger on October 09, 2015, 10:57:05 PM
A lot of hunters support road decomissioning. There are way too many roads that don't serve a purpose to anyone, including recreationists. I consider roads that aren't brushed out useless. It is good to get rid of useless roads. Many roads that get decommissioned end up being one of many roads thar go to the same area. The only reason for roads all over the place was for timber harvesting. Now that it is done, the usfs lost its road budgets and has been granted more money to try to resolve the mistakes that happend when raping the forest resources in the 20th century.Your to young to know the good old days when we had tons of animals of all species abudnant on f.s ground, raping wasn't involved, f.s is a piss poor agency that should be abolished period, they are a management agency not the saviour of the earth. Its time to put personal agenda aside and manage the ground they were formed to manage in the first place. Roads are the biggest infrusctre the f.s will ever have and to willy nilly rip roads out already paid for is plain mis management, its not always about hunters, every tax paying american has the right to access said ground regardless of ability. I know your pro forest service and I applaud you for sticking to your beliefs, having had 30 years of dealing with them we will just have to agree to disagree.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 09, 2015, 11:32:41 PM
A lot of hunters support road decomissioning. There are way too many roads that don't serve a purpose to anyone, including recreationists. I consider roads that aren't brushed out useless. It is good to get rid of useless roads. Many roads that get decommissioned end up being one of many roads thar go to the same area. The only reason for roads all over the place was for timber harvesting. Now that it is done, the usfs lost its road budgets and has been granted more money to try to resolve the mistakes that happend when raping the forest resources in the 20th century.Your to young to know the good old days when we had tons of animals of all species abudnant on f.s ground, raping wasn't involved, f.s is a piss poor agency that should be abolished period, they are a management agency not the saviour of the earth. Its time to put personal agenda aside and manage the ground they were formed to manage in the first place. Roads are the biggest infrusctre the f.s will ever have and to willy nilly rip roads out already paid for is plain mis management, its not always about hunters, every tax paying american has the right to access said ground regardless of ability. I know your pro forest service and I applaud you for sticking to your beliefs, having had 30 years of dealing with them we will just have to agree to disagree.
HW needs a like button.....
Post by: wolfbait on October 10, 2015, 07:03:56 AM
It's just a way for the, eco-greenies, to burn the forests up by blocking roads and being able to close them permanently.
At this stage of the game I think most of the people running the USFS are filled with environmentalists, the forest service isn't the same outfit it was thirty years ago. Look at the wolf introduction as an example, who was running the USFWS at the time of the introduction and now she works for DoW.
Post by: wolfbait on October 10, 2015, 07:07:14 AM
A lot of hunters support road decomissioning. There are way too many roads that don't serve a purpose to anyone, including recreationists. I consider roads that aren't brushed out useless. It is good to get rid of useless roads. Many roads that get decommissioned end up being one of many roads thar go to the same area. The only reason for roads all over the place was for timber harvesting. Now that it is done, the usfs lost its road budgets and has been granted more money to try to resolve the mistakes that happend when raping the forest resources in the 20th century.Your to young to know the good old days when we had tons of animals of all species abudnant on f.s ground, raping wasn't involved, f.s is a piss poor agency that should be abolished period, they are a management agency not the saviour of the earth. Its time to put personal agenda aside and manage the ground they were formed to manage in the first place. Roads are the biggest infrusctre the f.s will ever have and to willy nilly rip roads out already paid for is plain mis management, its not always about hunters, every tax paying american has the right to access said ground regardless of ability. I know your pro forest service and I applaud you for sticking to your beliefs, having had 30 years of dealing with them we will just have to agree to disagree.
HW needs a like button.....
X2
Post by: huntkah on October 15, 2015, 11:44:03 AM
There's always far more to it then people want to think. FS has its problems but to say is entirely there fault is misguided. For every hunter who actually uses the land there are 5 more greenies protesting.
Up your numbers, do something or quit complaining about management. You got out voted.
If you actually think it would be wise to get rid of federal land agencies then you either have a lot of land and dont need public land or you just don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Post by: Special T on October 15, 2015, 01:11:52 PM
I can tell you I have less issue with roads that are tank trapped at the beginning but left intact opposed to the wholesale destruction of the road bed so that it can no longer be used by foot traffic, mountain bikes or even fire fighting. If you want to make the case that budges are involved then just dont maintain and close off roads that are washed out.
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Post by: DeerThug on October 15, 2015, 05:28:49 PM
Stupid......
Post by: grundy53 on October 15, 2015, 05:50:50 PM
For the roads on the east side that have been decommissioned is going to suck when there is a fire and there is no road access. There is like one road up off of 410 anymore. one of these days a fire will start and no way to get to it.The FS doesn't want to put them out.
Stupid......
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Post by: grundy53 on October 15, 2015, 05:52:48 PM
A lot of hunters support road decomissioning. There are way too many roads that don't serve a purpose to anyone, including recreationists. I consider roads that aren't brushed out useless. It is good to get rid of useless roads. Many roads that get decommissioned end up being one of many roads thar go to the same area. The only reason for roads all over the place was for timber harvesting. Now that it is done, the usfs lost its road budgets and has been granted more money to try to resolve the mistakes that happend when raping the forest resources in the 20th century.
If they don't have the money then why waste more money to rip up roads? If anything just let time take it's toll.
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Post by: KFhunter on October 15, 2015, 06:00:20 PM
Post by: grundy53 on October 15, 2015, 06:01:43 PM
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Post by: bigtex on October 15, 2015, 06:07:28 PM
Liability.A lot of hunters support road decomissioning. There are way too many roads that don't serve a purpose to anyone, including recreationists. I consider roads that aren't brushed out useless. It is good to get rid of useless roads. Many roads that get decommissioned end up being one of many roads thar go to the same area. The only reason for roads all over the place was for timber harvesting. Now that it is done, the usfs lost its road budgets and has been granted more money to try to resolve the mistakes that happend when raping the forest resources in the 20th century.If they don't have the money then why waste more money to rip up roads? If anything just let time take it's toll.
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Those are open public roads. So if the USFS just lets the road grow over and someone decides to take their Subaru up one and somehow gets injured/killed because of the road conditions you can bet that the USFS will be looking at a civil suit...
Post by: grundy53 on October 15, 2015, 06:09:26 PM
I think we all know that is not the real reason they are doing it. That might be the excuse they use.Liability.A lot of hunters support road decomissioning. There are way too many roads that don't serve a purpose to anyone, including recreationists. I consider roads that aren't brushed out useless. It is good to get rid of useless roads. Many roads that get decommissioned end up being one of many roads thar go to the same area. The only reason for roads all over the place was for timber harvesting. Now that it is done, the usfs lost its road budgets and has been granted more money to try to resolve the mistakes that happend when raping the forest resources in the 20th century.If they don't have the money then why waste more money to rip up roads? If anything just let time take it's toll.
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Those are open public roads. So if the USFS just lets the road grow over and someone decides to take their Subaru up one and somehow gets injured/killed because of the road conditions you can bet that the USFS will be looking at a civil suit...
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Post by: Curly on October 15, 2015, 06:19:44 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on October 15, 2015, 06:21:07 PM
If it was simply about liability they could put in tank traps or block the roads in some fashion instead of totally tearing out the roads.
:yeah:
Post by: Naches Sportsman on October 15, 2015, 06:34:09 PM
If it was simply about liability they could put in tank traps or block the roads in some fashion instead of totally tearing out the roads.Tearing out roads is the new way of doing things.
Post by: grundy53 on October 15, 2015, 06:46:17 PM
If it was simply about liability they could put in tank traps or block the roads in some fashion instead of totally tearing out the roads.Tearing out roads is the new way of doing things.
Great explanation.
Post by: fastdam on October 15, 2015, 08:12:55 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 15, 2015, 08:41:28 PM
This is Agenda 21 in action.Ironic that the greenies that hasten it for the reason "so my kids/grandkids/great-grandkids can see wild spaces" are only going to make it less so. You'll probably have to be a member of the Gates/Buffett/Soros/etc families just to see it.
Post by: dscubame on October 20, 2015, 07:26:25 PM
I wish they would lock every gate and close every road.
Far too many people and far too few places to go.
Profound. :tup: So much said with so few words. Agree.
Post by: grundy53 on October 20, 2015, 08:25:59 PM
I wish they would lock every gate and close every road.
Far too many people and far too few places to go.
Profound. :tup: So much said with so few words. Agree.
So you're saying there is far too few places to go and your answer for that is to make even fewer places to go?
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Post by: dscubame on October 20, 2015, 08:50:05 PM
Post by: dscubame on October 20, 2015, 08:56:51 PM
Post by: grundy53 on October 20, 2015, 09:10:58 PM
Hmmm...You can actually give an answer. I get what you are thinking. However, there is only so far people can go and expect to actually bring the meat out (with out spoiling). Especially during the earlier seasons. When everything is gated you will run into a few problems. 1) EVERYONE will be starting from the gate therefore condensing everyone (as opposed to dispersing evenly through out the area. You thought it was too crowded before....). 2) you will have less huntable land (once again you reach a certain point where you won't be able to realistically get an animal out therefore the amount of land you can hunt is reduced) 3) Hunter numbers will plummet. Even though this sounds great it isn't in the long run. Not if you like hunting.
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Post by: grundy53 on October 20, 2015, 09:13:29 PM
Grundy you have corrected me. There are plenty of places to go that are unmolested by the roads that constantly harrass and reak havack on the wildlife wintering grounds. Like wilderness areas and high country where most won't get out of there vehicles. But seriously yes you are correct I recant.I agree with with you about wintering grounds. I do believe they should be locked up. When the animals are wintering. But not all of the time.
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Post by: Chesapeake on October 20, 2015, 09:35:45 PM
Don't quote me though. But that was the timing and story as I heard it when they started the "decommission" stuff back a few handfuls of years.
Not sure which one it was, maybe the 1999 40million roadless acres one???
http://clinton4.nara.gov/CEQ/earthday/ch13.html
Post by: dscubame on October 21, 2015, 07:34:28 AM
Grundy you have corrected me. There are plenty of places to go that are unmolested by the roads that constantly harrass and reak havack on the wildlife wintering grounds. Like wilderness areas and high country where most won't get out of there vehicles. But seriously yes you are correct I recant.I agree with with you about wintering grounds. I do believe they should be locked up. When the animals are wintering. But not all of the time.
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I can sincerely appreciate both sides of the fence on this issue. And I must admit I do like a good road now and again. In the NE there seems to be a happy medium where you can leave a road and go a good distance getting into some relative back country. This is a good example of you cannot please all the people all the time.
Honestly though I am good with both and you are correct that there are plenty of areas with no roads and few people. Opening weekend modern deer I was in the NE at 6.5k feet and did not see anyone the entire Fri, Sat, or Sun until I got back to my truck. Then I dropped into Colville for Sunday afternoon and Monday and there were swarms of road hunters. I enjoy both.
Post by: HunterStrait on October 21, 2015, 07:31:45 PM
Tore up a perfectly well managed campsite that i USED to camp on.
Post by: logger on October 21, 2015, 07:40:15 PM
You can't please everyone. There are logging units that get protested by people in the eastern us because the name says bear unit or something.
There's always far more to it then people want to think. FS has its problems but to say is entirely there fault is misguided. For every hunter who actually uses the land there are 5 more greenies protesting.
Up your numbers, do something or quit complaining about management. You got out voted.
If you actually think it would be wise to get rid of federal land agencies then you either have a lot of land and dont need public land or you just don't know what the hell you're talking about. You have some valid points and while your right about not totally their fault, they do lay down to every envriomental group that graces their door, And yes we should do away with federal land management agencys, they fail miserably! I have spilled more saw gas than they will ever burn, 25 years dealing with them, I see the waste everyday.
Post by: wolfbait on October 22, 2015, 07:58:15 AM
You can't please everyone. There are logging units that get protested by people in the eastern us because the name says bear unit or something.
There's always far more to it then people want to think. FS has its problems but to say is entirely there fault is misguided. For every hunter who actually uses the land there are 5 more greenies protesting.
Up your numbers, do something or quit complaining about management. You got out voted.
If you actually think it would be wise to get rid of federal land agencies then you either have a lot of land and dont need public land or you just don't know what the hell you're talking about. You have some valid points and while your right about not totally their fault, they do lay down to every envriomental group that graces their door, And yes we should do away with federal land management agencys, they fail miserably! I have spilled more saw gas than they will ever burn, 25 years dealing with them, I see the waste everyday.
"You have some valid points and while your right about not totally their fault, they do lay down to every envriomental group that graces their door, And yes we should do away with federal land management agencys, they fail miserably! I have spilled more saw gas than they will ever burn, 25 years dealing with them, I see the waste everyday."
:yeah: