Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 20, 2015, 02:50:15 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2015/oct/20/gov-inslee-nixes-cougar-hunting-quota-increases-overrules-wildlife-panel
Gov. Inslee nixes cougar hunting quota increases; overrules wildlife panel
HUNTING -- Answering an appeal filed by eight wildlife-protection groups, Gov. Jay Inslee has struck down increases in cougar hunting quotas approved for this year by the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Inslee said an amendment proposed at the April commission meeting to increase cougar hunting quotas by one-to-three animals in some designated areas was done without proper advance notice to the public. The citizen panel approved the increase by a 7-1 vote.
This may be the first time a Washington governor has forced the reversal of an action taken by the Fish and Wildlife Commission, said Bruce Botka, state Fish and Wildlife Department spokesman in Olympia.
"We will be reviewing the governor’s action with our assistant attorneys general and the commission and will identify management options moving forward," Botka said. "We had already planned to work with the commission next spring to review cougar hunting rules for the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons."
Inslee announced his action Monday in a letter to the Humane Society of the United States as well as other parties involved in the administrative appeal -- the Center for Biological Diversity, Mountain Lion Foundation, Wolf Haven International, The Cougar Fund, The Lands Council (based in Spokane), Predator Defense, Kettle Range Conservation Group and Gary Koehler, a former Fish and Wildlife Department research scientist.
The groups pointed out that in the published proposal going into the April meeting, state wildlife managers had proposed quotas estimated to be 12-16 percent of the cougar population in designated game management areas.
Biologists wrote that this was a "sustainable harvest rate" for mountain lions. They also pointed out in the proposal that "harvest rates in excess of 16 percent can result in declines in core populations of breeding females, and excessive male harvest rates result in the loss of adult male territorial (behavior), which acts as a regulatory mechanism for local male cougar members."
Based on those statements in the published proposal, the groups appealed saying that the public had no reason to suspect Commissioner Miranda Wecker of Naselle would offer a last-minute amendment to slightly increase the quotas.
After the groups' June 30 rulemaking appeal to the commission was denied by the panel in August, the groups stepped up the appeal to the governor.
In proposing her cougar quota increase at the April 9-10 meeting, Wecker said, "The logic is that we have tremendous social conflict under way. I don’t believe that in any of these GMUs the small changes that I’ve proposed will make a difference in the health of cougar populations. I’ve been assured by staff that is the case.…
"It will have a beneficial effect, I believe, of giving some consideration to that communities that live in these GMUs in which wolf packs are now operating."
The commission then voted to increase the restrictive cougar harvest guideline to 17-21 percent in several Eastern Washington game management areas.
Inslee's decision is based on a procedural rule and does not address the wildlife biology involved.
But the appealing groups are quick to fill that gap.
"The Fish and Wildlife Commission decided to kill more cougars after ignoring the public and its own scientists," said Collette Adkins, an attorney at the Center for Biological Diversity. "Its knee-jerk decision needed to be reversed, and we’re overjoyed that the governor agreed with us.”
"The commission’s decision also ignored a 13-year, Washington-based scientific study that cost taxpayers approximately $5 million," she said. "The study showed that killing cougars at such high levels might exacerbate conflicts with people and livestock and would do nothing to prevent future cougar attacks or make people safer."
But hunters, who tend to be seeing a remarkable number of cougars this year, say the animal groups are making the cougar quota situation a bigger deal than it is.
"I am 100 percent in support of the quota system and protecting cat populations," said Bart George, a wildlife biologist with the Kalispel Tribe and a houndsman often called by state wildlife officials to help them deal with problem cougars and bears.
However, George says, a "12-14 percent harvest rate is a worthless measure (for indicating sustainable cougar numbers) when we have no idea what the population is. It's an estimate at best. The whole thing is a bad joke."
Post by: h2ofowlr on October 20, 2015, 02:52:18 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 20, 2015, 02:54:41 PM
Post by: Special T on October 20, 2015, 02:54:52 PM
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Post by: npaull on October 20, 2015, 03:05:23 PM
Quote
Inslee's decision is based on a procedural rule and does not address the wildlife biology involved.
Wow. Never has the phrase "nothing more needs to be said" ever been applied more appropriately.
Post by: Bango skank on October 20, 2015, 04:38:40 PM
Post by: kellama2001 on October 20, 2015, 04:40:32 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on October 20, 2015, 04:47:02 PM
Post by: Humptulips on October 20, 2015, 05:08:04 PM
Can anybody point me to a section that gives him this power?
It looks to me like he has unconstitutionally exceeded his authority.
Maybe I'm wrong but I would like to have this explained.
Post by: BNAElkhntr on October 20, 2015, 05:22:20 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 20, 2015, 07:55:49 PM
Post by: Curly on October 20, 2015, 08:17:04 PM
Post by: grundy53 on October 20, 2015, 08:35:13 PM
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Post by: grundy53 on October 20, 2015, 08:43:07 PM
Inslee announced his action Monday in a letter to the Humane Society of the United States as well as other parties involved in the administrative appeal -- the Center for Biological Diversity, Mountain Lion Foundation, Wolf Haven International, The Cougar Fund, The Lands Council (based in Spokane), Predator Defense, Kettle Range Conservation Group and Gary Koehler, a former Fish and Wildlife Department research scientist.
Yet we are supposed to believe these very same groups won't do the exact same thing with wolves....
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Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 20, 2015, 08:55:15 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 20, 2015, 09:11:34 PM
Post by: Highmountaindan on October 21, 2015, 09:40:52 AM
Post by: Curly on October 21, 2015, 10:02:13 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 21, 2015, 10:02:48 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 21, 2015, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: Curly on October 21, 2015, 10:14:48 AM
Post by: Gobble on October 21, 2015, 10:15:23 AM
Post by: seth30 on October 21, 2015, 10:21:31 AM
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 01:05:31 AM
I heard on the news - yeah, I know - that the justification for the quota increase being killed was that it was not subject to a public comment period. Anyone know whether the implementation of the quota system was subject to a public comment period?
Well, there was a thread about it on here when it was in the works, myself and some others wrote letters supporting the quota increase. It was public knowledge, there was time to comment for anybody who cared to do so.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,178474.msg2363329.html#msg2363329
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on October 22, 2015, 06:41:26 AM
I don't like the way this is going, reminds me of how the public was able to take away our hounds :yike:
Yeah the kitties are thriving with no natural predators. Find the deer, you'll find the cats. Imagine if the never increased quota or decreased it. Could get bad for all the other critters.
Post by: huntnphool on October 22, 2015, 07:21:49 AM
Quote
"The commission’s decision also ignored a 13-year, Washington-based scientific study that cost taxpayers approximately $5 million," she said. "The study showed that killing cougars at such high levels might exacerbate conflicts with people and livestock and would do nothing to prevent future cougar attacks or make people safer."
1) where was the publics input on whether or not we should spend $5 million on that study?
2) "MIGHT exacerbate conflicts? So they base the entire change on cat hunting on a $5 million guess?
Sounds a awful lot like last years bad "guess" that resulted in handing out 1000 extra doe tags in the Methow.
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 07:41:50 AM
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 07:49:06 AM
Post by: huntnphool on October 22, 2015, 07:50:53 AM
I pointed both of these inaccuracies out in the replies and they deleted my post in less than 5 minutes. Imagine that.
It's not about truth...
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 07:54:16 AM
I pointed both of these inaccuracies out in the replies and they deleted my post in less than 5 minutes. Imagine that.
It's not about truth...
Oh im well aware. Doesnt it mean anything to them that they have to lie to support the agenda?? If the truth about something doesnt support your argument, then your cause is wrong.
Post by: jasnt on October 22, 2015, 08:05:10 AM
"Estimates put Washington's cougar population at over 3,000 animals, with more than 200 a year killed by hunters." That adds up to 6.67%
"The recommended quota, based on in-state university research, has been 12 to 16 percent of the cougar population – but the commission increased the number to 17 to 21 percent in some hunting management units."
So we could kill over 400 a year and still be in the recommended quota :bash:
http://www.publicnewsservice.org/2015-07-06/animal-welfare/animal-rights-groups-challenge-washington-cougar-hunt-quota/a46988-1
We don't even come close to filling recommended cougar harvest according to the research. This state is going to unmanage it's self to total chaos! Before we know it we will be public commented right out of beloved passions to the anti common sence folks
Post by: huntnphool on October 22, 2015, 08:12:06 AM
Doesnt it mean anything to them that they have to lie to support the agenda??I pointed both of these inaccuracies out in the replies and they deleted my post in less than 5 minutes. Imagine that.
It's not about truth...
Um no.......as with most libs, the actual truth or facts are of no concern.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 22, 2015, 08:31:33 AM
I just checked, mine is in the comment section.....I guess they can't read.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 22, 2015, 09:19:20 AM
They won't be happy with comment periods either, they'll want town hall meetings, visits by politicians, long drawn out impact studies, etc. The Navy is going through the greenie stall tactics over here. They want to do some training, but the greenies are all over the FS trying to prevent the permit. Long comment period that only got maybe 100 comments. But the greenies ran to lawyers, Reps/Sens, now have change.org petitions, weekly newsletters have to be put out. Guess they needed enough time to get all their support from California, New York, UK, France, etc to inflate their numbers. They are even trying to find ways to get the guy from the FS fired because he isn't 'representing their interest'.I heard on the news - yeah, I know - that the justification for the quota increase being killed was that it was not subject to a public comment period. Anyone know whether the implementation of the quota system was subject to a public comment period?
Well, there was a thread about it on here when it was in the works, myself and some others wrote letters supporting the quota increase. It was public knowledge, there was time to comment for anybody who cared to do so.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,178474.msg2363329.html#msg2363329
Post by: kellama2001 on October 22, 2015, 10:31:04 AM
Post by: Humptulips on October 22, 2015, 10:55:14 AM
I pointed both of these inaccuracies out in the replies and they deleted my post in less than 5 minutes. Imagine that.
I don't know what you expected. HSUS makes their living by telling lies. They would have to go out of business if they told the truth.
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 01:39:14 PM
I just posted a comment, we'll see if the delete mine too..Yep, they didn't post mine either...Actually, your comment somehow made it past the moderators, but mine didnt so i reposted it. I think its pretty civilized, not insulting. We will see if it makes it this time.
I just checked, mine is in the comment section.....I guess they can't read.
The article says “lets be clear, nobody eats cougars” This is incorrect, cougar meat is highly prized, people eat cougar all the time. In fact, in WA you are legally required to salvage the meat from a cougar you kill. The article also is implying that the reason for the quota increase is to prevent cougar attacks on people. It was actually proposed as a way to help adjust for the increased predation on our deer elk and moose from the growing wolf population. The quota increase is only for areas with the highest wolf densities.
Post by: westsidehntr on October 22, 2015, 01:48:34 PM
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 01:57:01 PM
Post by: westsidehntr on October 22, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
It says this right down by the comment section. The HSUS encourages open discussion, and we invite you to share your opinion on our issues. Apparently that doesnt apply to me though.
I've tried posting 3 times now. Each comment was abiding by their rules. They deleted them all. Freakin commie liberals.
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 02:06:05 PM
Post by: westsidehntr on October 22, 2015, 02:09:39 PM
Yup, so much for their "open discussion" huh?
Yeah, I directly called them out in my last post. I'm sure they just chuckle while they hit delete. It's all about controlling information. If they control the information that the majority sees, they can sway people based on emotions.
Post by: 2labs on October 22, 2015, 02:23:33 PM
Hey aren't they public servants?
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 02:25:16 PM
Post by: 2labs on October 22, 2015, 02:28:38 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 22, 2015, 02:30:41 PM
Cougars are at or above full carrying capacity – the total number of animals that can be sustained throughout the year without harm to the wildlife or the habitat – all over the state of WA. With the introduction of the grey wolf, there has been increased pressure on the ungulate herds (elk, deer, sheep), and increased human/wildlife conflict, statewide. As you may or may not be aware, when cougar populations exceed carrying capacity, the adolescent males are pushed further and further into human populations. This causes conflict and is a danger to both the wildlife and to human, pets, livestock, etc. Hunters are the tool of all wildlife agencies nationwide, to cull surplus animals, keeping wildlife populations healthy and abundant. Contrary to propaganda and myth, without hunters, many of our wildlife species wouldn’t exist today. The governor’s decision to pander to animal rights groups instead of relying on his hired experts in the field shows ignorance to proper wildlife management practices and stands in opposition to scientific study, contrary to claims by this organization. Wildlife management by popular opinion is mind-numbingly stupid. When the state wildlife biologists say that it’s time to thin the herd, they do so only after intensive research. You people claim to love animals, as do I. If you’re telling the truth about that, you’d support the experts in the field. I suggest that when you don’t your goals are other than those which are in keeping with wildlife’s best interests.
Post by: westsidehntr on October 22, 2015, 02:32:14 PM
Let's see if this one gets printed. I doubt it. They only want their views to be read.
Cougars are at or above full carrying capacity – the total number of animals that can be sustained throughout the year without harm to the wildlife or the habitat – all over the state of WA. With the introduction of the grey wolf, there has been increased pressure on the ungulate herds (elk, deer, sheep), and increased human/wildlife conflict, statewide. As you may or may not be aware, when cougar populations exceed carrying capacity, the adolescent males are pushed further and further into human populations. This causes conflict and is a danger to both the wildlife and to human, pets, livestock, etc. Hunters are the tool of all wildlife agencies nationwide, to cull surplus animals, keeping wildlife populations healthy and abundant. Contrary to propaganda and myth, without hunters, many of our wildlife species wouldn’t exist today. The governor’s decision to pander to animal rights groups instead of relying on his hired experts in the field shows ignorance to proper wildlife management practices and stands in opposition to scientific study, contrary to claims by this organization. Wildlife management by popular opinion is mind-numbingly stupid. When the state wildlife biologists say that it’s time to thin the herd, they do so only after intensive research. You people claim to love animals, as do I. If you’re telling the truth about that, you’d support the experts in the field. I suggest that when you don’t your goals are other than those which are in keeping with wildlife’s best interests.
My comment was very similar to yours, but your a lot better with words :tup: I'll bet it gets deleted.
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 02:38:51 PM
W.D.F.W.?
Thouggt he was talkinh about hsus
Post by: Bango skank on October 22, 2015, 03:44:31 PM
Post by: Bango skank on October 23, 2015, 09:49:34 AM
Post by: kellama2001 on October 23, 2015, 10:09:17 AM
Let's see if this one gets printed. I doubt it. They only want their views to be read.
Cougars are at or above full carrying capacity – the total number of animals that can be sustained throughout the year without harm to the wildlife or the habitat – all over the state of WA. With the introduction of the grey wolf, there has been increased pressure on the ungulate herds (elk, deer, sheep), and increased human/wildlife conflict, statewide. As you may or may not be aware, when cougar populations exceed carrying capacity, the adolescent males are pushed further and further into human populations. This causes conflict and is a danger to both the wildlife and to human, pets, livestock, etc. Hunters are the tool of all wildlife agencies nationwide, to cull surplus animals, keeping wildlife populations healthy and abundant. Contrary to propaganda and myth, without hunters, many of our wildlife species wouldn’t exist today. The governor’s decision to pander to animal rights groups instead of relying on his hired experts in the field shows ignorance to proper wildlife management practices and stands in opposition to scientific study, contrary to claims by this organization. Wildlife management by popular opinion is mind-numbingly stupid. When the state wildlife biologists say that it’s time to thin the herd, they do so only after intensive research. You people claim to love animals, as do I. If you’re telling the truth about that, you’d support the experts in the field. I suggest that when you don’t your goals are other than those which are in keeping with wildlife’s best interests.
Well said!! :tup: :tup:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 23, 2015, 10:16:52 AM
Deleting everybodys posts except campmeats. He must be a hsus spy!
They saw the name and decided I was a liberal plant to get a rise out of the liberals themselves..... :tup:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 23, 2015, 10:29:30 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 23, 2015, 10:37:02 AM
Post by: Bango skank on October 23, 2015, 01:05:39 PM
Everything you are saying is operating under the assumption that mature males are the ones primarily being hunted. While this may be true in states like idaho that allow hound hunting, here in washington an opportunity at any cat is a rare event, and likely a once in a lifetime opportunity for most hunters. One does not pass up a subadult or female in washington. The harvest statistics show 3 of the last 5 years having a higher female harvest than male, and average age of 2 years, so the whole thing about social structure being ruined is pretty irrelevant here since a ban on hound hunting effectively eliminates selective harvest.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 23, 2015, 01:12:10 PM
Post by: 2labs on October 23, 2015, 01:16:09 PM
Good luck convincing a lib of that! Like talking too three a year old.
Post by: Special T on October 23, 2015, 01:46:35 PM
Certified bunny hugger (insert pic of begal)
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Post by: Curly on October 23, 2015, 01:55:18 PM
I just posted a couple more comments....
Campmeat, I saw the stupid comment on there from someone named Diana where she called you a tool because she didn't believe you about cougars being a problem for kids waiting for the school bus.
I remember the story being on the national news about the 11 year old girl in Twisp that shot a cougar.
http://www.chron.com/hunting-fishing/article/11-year-old-Twisp-girl-kills-cougar-5270222.php
The link above is from a Houston newspaper.
Post by: Curly on October 23, 2015, 01:59:33 PM
Oh wait, no need to answer that question.......it is an easy answer. :bash:
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 23, 2015, 02:06:13 PM
I wonder if HSUS would rather have malnourished cougars running around starving to death with no hunting or a healthy population of cougars and some hunting?
Oh wait, no need to answer that question.......it is an easy answer. :bash:
They don't care about animals. They care about control.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 23, 2015, 04:44:37 PM
I just posted a couple more comments....
Campmeat, I saw the stupid comment on there from someone named Diana where she called you a tool because she didn't believe you about cougars being a problem for kids waiting for the school bus.
I remember the story being on the national news about the 11 year old girl in Twisp that shot a cougar.
http://www.chron.com/hunting-fishing/article/11-year-old-Twisp-girl-kills-cougar-5270222.php
The link above is from a Houston newspaper.
Spouting off without facts, huh Curly...
Post by: Curly on October 25, 2015, 06:32:28 AM
Post by: MuleDeer on November 01, 2015, 02:58:31 PM
I got a phone call from HSUS the other day, asking my opinion about cougar mgmt., this issue, and other ideas on best ways to ensure healthy cat populations. I referred him to the two-episode series of Western Extreme that went into great depth on solid mgmt. methods, and expressed a lot of other things that have been proven through studies that work. I'm sending him a digital version of the episodes, and will also have them with me at the December WAG meeting, and talk about some of those mgmt. practices during that meeting. His assumption was that all cougars seen were shot, which I told him is more true when it's a chance sighting, like most are now. But when hunting with hounds, most outfitters only recommend their hunters shooting toms.
Talk to your local commissioner and tell them we still want the quota issue passed through, and make sure proper procedure is followed, so it can't be cut down again. If the commission follows procedure and pass it again, it will stick.
Post by: MuleDeer on November 04, 2015, 04:29:07 PM
Post by: csaaphill on November 04, 2015, 08:11:13 PM
November 4, 2015
Contact: Wildlife Program, 360-902-2515
WDFW reduces cougar harvest level
in response to Governor Inslee decision
OLYMPIA – The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) today enacted an emergency rule to restore cougar harvest rates to 12-16 percent throughout the state for the remainder of the 2015-16 hunting season.
WDFW took the action in response to direction from Gov. Jay Inslee. Last month the governor said the state Fish and Wildlife Commission erred in April when it amended the proposed state hunting rules by increasing the harvest rate to 17-21 percent of the estimated cougar population within portions of eastern Washington where wolves are present.
Responding to a petition from animal rights and environmental groups, Inslee said the commission, which sets policy for WDFW, improperly applied the state Administrative Procedure Act in amending the harvest rate. He directed the commission to restore the lower rate and to conduct a full public rulemaking process to consider changes for future hunting seasons.
Nate Pamplin, head of the WDFW Wildlife Program, said the emergency rule will take effect Jan. 1, 2016, and will remain in place until April 30, which marks the end of the 2015-16 cougar season.
While the emergency rule is in place, Pamplin said WDFW will initiate a full public rulemaking process to set cougar harvest rates for the 2016-17 and 2017-18 seasons. That process will include a review of cougar biology and statewide population trends, and analysis of research into cougar populations in areas of eastern and western Washington, he said.
Pamplin said the public will have an opportunity to comment on the proposed rule at the commission’s March 2016 meeting in Moses Lake. Adoption of the rule is tentatively scheduled for April, Pamplin said.
In its 2014 Game Management Plan, WDFW estimated the total statewide cougar population at about 3,600.
Cougar hunting is open statewide during an early general season from Sept. 1 through Dec. 31. Hunting remains open during a late season from Jan 1 through April 30, although WDFW closes cougar hunting in individual units if the harvest limit is reached before then.
Pamplin said hunters must check the WDFW website (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/cougar/) or call the toll-free cougar hotline (866-364-4868) to determine whether specific areas remain open. Licenses for the 2015 season expire March 31, 2016, so hunters will need a valid 2016 cougar license to hunt in April.
:bdid:
POS INSLEE has no idea what he's doing.
Post by: KFhunter on November 04, 2015, 08:16:37 PM
I just posted a couple more comments....
Campmeat, I saw the stupid comment on there from someone named Diana where she called you a tool because she didn't believe you about cougars being a problem for kids waiting for the school bus.
I remember the story being on the national news about the 11 year old girl in Twisp that shot a cougar.
http://www.chron.com/hunting-fishing/article/11-year-old-Twisp-girl-kills-cougar-5270222.php
The link above is from a Houston newspaper.
When I was driving truck I seen a huge cougar putting the stalk on some kids waiting for the school bus, it was 50 yards across the highway from them kids had no idea it was there, I blew on the air horn it took off