Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Special T on November 09, 2015, 08:51:21 PM

Title: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: Special T on November 09, 2015, 08:51:21 PM: I have an old lefever/ithica in 12ga w 32" barrel. I plan on taking it phesant hunting this year with the opportunity for ducks. There are a couple of ponds to kump shoot. When purchasing some lead I asked about some non toxic. I was told to only shoot lead out of this gun because nontox was harder than lead combined with the full choke double barrell would ruin the gun. My gun is early 20s vintage when ithica was using base componets from lefever from the takeover. I dont know much about old shotguns... the advise doesnt sound right. Ut I surely dont want to blow up my sidebyside.

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Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: whitey on November 09, 2015, 09:13:17 PM: Bismuth, the first non-toxic alternative to steel shot, is back. With the price of tungsten ammo going from expensive to “if you have to ask you can’t afford it” prices, that’s good news, at least for those who can pay $2-$3 per shell for shotgun ammo. Bismuth pellets are actually a bismuth-tin alloy that is almost as dense as lead. It’s brittle, rather than hard, so it doesn’t damage gun barrels and it reacts to choke about the way lead did. Bismuth is a good choice for those who hunt waterfowl with older guns and nice doubles that can’t tolerate steel.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2013/10/non-toxic-shot-bismuth-back

Get After them. Good Luck. :tup:
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: HighlandLofts on November 10, 2015, 07:57:07 AM: I have an older 12 gauge that i use occasionally for waterfowl, I use Bismuth in this old relic.
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: AWS on November 10, 2015, 08:16:58 AM: RIO Bismuth is about the most reasonable prices non-toxics. Kent màkes their Tungsten Matrix which is tungsten iñ a polymer base which is a soft leadlike pellet and Classic Doubles makes a soft non-toxic waterfowl load also. RST produced a soft non-toxic shotshell also but has been unable to obtain the shot from NICE shot.

You can also purchase loose soft non-toxic shot, Bismuth from Precision Reloading, American E-Shot from Bucks Run and ITX Original 10 from Ballistic Products.

I reload 7/8 oz. ITX 6's in 2 1/2" 12 ga. shells for my old sxs and it works well for me.

These are with my Husky 51 7/8 oz.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FOct%252030%25203015%2520ducks%2520amp%2520husy%2520004_zpsr8c4ysp1.jpg&hash=001ce31ee916d2eed1528c822aa4f94998a35163) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/Oct%2030%203015%20ducks%20amp%20husy%20004_zpsr8c4ysp1.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2Fhuskyducksandforend004_zpseeac9d1a.jpg&hash=eadf0c4defb25ded2701be26209b53276cdebbf0) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/huskyducksandforend004_zpseeac9d1a.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FDec2013008_zps9afb3ae0.jpg&hash=086bb189768a6aeb54113e2ceec4b9f56d9e4fb4) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/Dec2013008_zps9afb3ae0.jpg.html)

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FHuskyatworkII004_zps8919599b.jpg&hash=4a3ee9028e3e5f1a55b0ac3db5351893f96fbe28) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Browndaug/media/HuskyatworkII004_zps8919599b.jpg.html)

These are just a couple of hunts on a variety of different waterfowl.
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: MP123 on November 10, 2015, 08:38:16 AM: "Classic Doubles" is what you want. Made by Hevi-Shot. It's relatively low speed bismuth, works great but costs a fortune so I only use it for special hunts when I bring my old double. You'll probably find you hit way more birds with it since you'll pass on the iffy shots at $5/pop.

You probably want to stay away from steel in an old double and since steel is 95% of the non-tox market it can be hard to find ammo.
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: Special T on November 10, 2015, 10:56:50 AM: AWS my gun is not nearly that nice. Its rather plain like most of the ithacas built with lefever parts. I had always wanted a sidebyside 12. While its not real pretty it does have some cool history and will really throw the lead down range.

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Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: wadu1 on November 10, 2015, 03:06:26 PM: Just make sure that it has 2 2/4 chamber before you purchase any ammo. It may be a 2 1/2. :twocents:
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: CP on November 10, 2015, 03:21:53 PM: I've used both Bismuth and Nice Shot in my 1914 Fox with no ill effects and with good results.

"Classic Doubles" however is garbage - it won't hurt your gun but it doesn't hurt the birds much either.
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: AWS on November 10, 2015, 04:57:42 PM: Would you explain why it is garbage , I can't see anything wrong with 1 1/8 oz of 5's at 1250 fps. I load 7/8 oz of Original-10 ITX 6's at about the same speed or slower in my 12ga. and it kills ducks and geese just fine. I don't try and stretch things as my guns are choke IC and Mod and I do all my shooting over decoys.
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: CP on November 12, 2015, 07:37:19 AM: Quote from: AWS on November 10, 2015, 04:57:42 PM
Would you explain why it is garbage , I can't see anything wrong with 1 1/8 oz of 5's at 1250 fps. I load 7/8 oz of Original-10 ITX 6's at about the same speed or slower in my 12ga. and it kills ducks and geese just fine. I don't try and stretch things as my guns are choke IC and Mod and I do all my shooting over decoys.

I’m basing that assessment on my experience. Granted it was a one box experience but let’s start with the price, a box of 10 shells will run you over $40.

I didn’t pattern it because at over $4 a shot I’m too cheap – let’s assume it patterns well

My biggest complaint is the obvious inconsistency from shot to shot. 1 1/8 oz @ 1150 fps sounds good but that’s not how it performed. Sometimes the recoil and report was what one would expect, sometimes it was consistent with a squib load, to the point that I could see the shot string moving through the air and my eyes aren’t that good.

My hand loads don’t do that.
Title: Re: Old double barrel non toxic shot
Post by: AWS on November 12, 2015, 09:10:51 AM: Thank You, that would turn me off on a brand of shells also. So often someone tries a new shell thinking it will magically kill ducks further or better and it doesn't and they think it is garbage. Going from 1550 fps steel to 1200 fps HW soft toxic can really throw a person shooting off. Thank you again for your assessment.