Post by: Ridgerunner on January 21, 2009, 07:58:09 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 21, 2009, 08:42:51 PM
Post by: Ray on January 21, 2009, 08:47:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 21, 2009, 08:49:29 PM
I hate the proposal. We should fight it and also I believe a compromise would be to have August open for archery.
Make it muzzleloader and archery and I'd support that.
Post by: Ray on January 21, 2009, 08:49:51 PM
Post by: 300rum on January 21, 2009, 08:52:56 PM
I hate the proposal. We should fight it and also I believe a compromise would be to have August open for archery.
Make it muzzleloader and archery and I'd support that.
Screw compromise. Close it for hikers for August if it isn't safe. Who pays the bills anyway?
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 08:57:32 PM
I am sick about this. With kids in school, August is the only time my family can camp and hunt with good weather. It is also just a great time to be out in the woods.
Post by: Ridgerunner on January 21, 2009, 08:58:03 PM
Quote
Screw compromise
Yeah that! Keep it open, no reason to make this dramatic of a change due to one incident in 25 years, a 1 in who knows how many million odds. BS.
Post by: Ray on January 21, 2009, 08:58:08 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 08:59:44 PM
QuoteScrew compromise
Yeah that! Keep it open, no reason to make this dramatic of a change due to one incident in 25 years, a 1 in who knows how many million odds. BS.
I agree, but we also need a back up plan. I do not want to give up my August rifle hunts, but I would hate to give up all hunting in August more.
Post by: Ray on January 21, 2009, 09:01:00 PM
QuoteScrew compromise
Yeah that! Keep it open, no reason to make this dramatic of a change due to one incident in 25 years, a 1 in who knows how many million odds. BS.
I agree, but we also need a back up plan. I do not want to give up my August rifle hunts, but I would hate to give up all hunting in August more.
I agree. It's a game. Try to corner them and have a backup plan to mitigate losses.
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 09:02:44 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 21, 2009, 09:06:51 PM
QuoteScrew compromise
Yeah that! Keep it open, no reason to make this dramatic of a change due to one incident in 25 years, a 1 in who knows how many million odds. BS.
I'm not happy at all with the closure of bear hunting on public lands in August, but if it was that or hunt with muzzleloader or bow, then I'd rather be out there with my muzzleloader than not at all.
Post by: 300rum on January 21, 2009, 09:08:33 PM
That will never go through. Hikers buy a ton of trail park passes and they have droves of people who "maintain trails" as well as non profit groups who are stewards of the wilderness. Not saying I agree with all of their organizations but they are not exactly the type of user group that you can just "close the door" for the sake of hunting. In fact I think that sort of totalitarian thinking and ownership line of thought is more problematic to hunters in general. No single user groups owns the public lands. It has to be shared reasonably.. Even if you feel disdain with another user group. Pitting hikers versus hunters and closures for hikers is not really the answer.
Compromise isn't solving anything. Compromise is the noose closing ever so gently tighter around your neck. Compromising on Archery/Muzzy equip. versus firearm seems very logical and if they have a willing ear will, they will listen. However, the writing is on the wall and the noose tightens. If they can keep you out of the public lands in August, how about Labor day too, since that is popular? How about the weekends, since more people hike on weekends?
Post by: dreamingbig on January 21, 2009, 09:09:16 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on January 21, 2009, 09:10:59 PM
That will never go through. Hikers buy a ton of trail park passes and they have droves of people who "maintain trails" as well as non profit groups who are stewards of the wilderness. Not saying I agree with all of their organizations but they are not exactly the type of user group that you can just "close the door" for the sake of hunting. In fact I think that sort of totalitarian thinking and ownership line of thought is more problematic to hunters in general. No single user groups owns the public lands. It has to be shared reasonably.. Even if you feel disdain with another user group. Pitting hikers versus hunters and closures for hikers is not really the answer.
Compromise isn't solving anything. Compromise is the noose closing ever so gently tighter around your neck. Compromising on Archery/Muzzy equip. versus firearm seems very logical and if they have a willing ear will, they will listen. However, the writing is on the wall and the noose tightens. If they can keep you out of the public lands in August, how about Labor day too, since that is popular? How about the weekends, since more people hike on weekends?
:yeah:
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 09:11:49 PM
My question is who is going to kill the bears? What happens when the bears start attacking/eating the hikers themselves? :o
Wouldn't that be sweet revenge. :chuckle:
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 09:17:16 PM
That will never go through. Hikers buy a ton of trail park passes and they have droves of people who "maintain trails" as well as non profit groups who are stewards of the wilderness. Not saying I agree with all of their organizations but they are not exactly the type of user group that you can just "close the door" for the sake of hunting. In fact I think that sort of totalitarian thinking and ownership line of thought is more problematic to hunters in general. No single user groups owns the public lands. It has to be shared reasonably.. Even if you feel disdain with another user group. Pitting hikers versus hunters and closures for hikers is not really the answer.
Compromise isn't solving anything. Compromise is the noose closing ever so gently tighter around your neck. Compromising on Archery/Muzzy equip. versus firearm seems very logical and if they have a willing ear will, they will listen. However, the writing is on the wall and the noose tightens. If they can keep you out of the public lands in August, how about Labor day too, since that is popular? How about the weekends, since more people hike on weekends?
:yeah:
I understand your position, but the way I see it written we don't have a choice. If it goes through there will be NO hunting on public lands in August. No compromise on their part.
We have to fight for what we want which is all weapons for bear in August, but again, what if they don't compromise and say NO hunting bears in August? Do we just give up? No, we come at them with a well thought out alternative. That is not compromise on my/our part. Either we lose it all or we keep a little.
It's up you people out there to make it work.
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 09:20:59 PM
I can't believe this! Who wants to surrender, run up a white flag and discuss a few ways to find some "middle ground" so we can hunt in August?
I know that Teddy would have charged the hill.
Pull your head out and read what we are saying.
None of us want to find middle ground right off the bat, but if you know anything about politics or war, you need a backup plan.
Post by: 300rum on January 21, 2009, 09:21:49 PM
I understand your position, but the way I see it written we don't have a choice. If it goes through there will be NO hunting on public lands in August. No compromise on their part.
We have to fight for what we want which is all weapons for bear in August, but again, what if they don't compromise and say NO hunting bears in August? Do we just give up? No, we come at them with a well thought out alternative. That is not compromise on my/our part. Either we lose it all or we keep a little.
It's up you people out there to make it work.
[/quote]
Sorry, I don't compromise. There is too much on the line. It is bigger than bears in August.
Too much compromising going on.
Post by: Ray on January 21, 2009, 09:22:58 PM
That will never go through. Hikers buy a ton of trail park passes and they have droves of people who "maintain trails" as well as non profit groups who are stewards of the wilderness. Not saying I agree with all of their organizations but they are not exactly the type of user group that you can just "close the door" for the sake of hunting. In fact I think that sort of totalitarian thinking and ownership line of thought is more problematic to hunters in general. No single user groups owns the public lands. It has to be shared reasonably.. Even if you feel disdain with another user group. Pitting hikers versus hunters and closures for hikers is not really the answer.
Compromise isn't solving anything. Compromise is the noose closing ever so gently tighter around your neck. Compromising on Archery/Muzzy equip. versus firearm seems very logical and if they have a willing ear will, they will listen. However, the writing is on the wall and the noose tightens. If they can keep you out of the public lands in August, how about Labor day too, since that is popular? How about the weekends, since more people hike on weekends?
That's a neat pitch but unfortunately this proposal already proves the legitimacy and voice of the hikers as a user group is much more loud than the hunters. I think you're also making my counter proposal into something which it was obviously not. I think if you want to be angry and argue something like this you should do it with the WDFW. My entire point was that you cannot say that the hunters close the wilderness to everyone else including hikers just for hunting season. It is completely out of touch with reality and it will never happen on public land. Once you digest that you can move forward and think about how to tackle the problem. Of course I already mentioned that I don't like the proposal but it seems to me the letters I wrote last fall didn't work and I doubt that the ship is going to change course much by March since they have their minds set on a change.
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 09:25:25 PM
I understand your position, but the way I see it written we don't have a choice. If it goes through there will be NO hunting on public lands in August. No compromise on their part.
We have to fight for what we want which is all weapons for bear in August, but again, what if they don't compromise and say NO hunting bears in August? Do we just give up? No, we come at them with a well thought out alternative. That is not compromise on my/our part. Either we lose it all or we keep a little.
It's up you people out there to make it work.
Quote
Sorry, I don't compromise. There is too much on the line. It is bigger than bears in August.
Too much compromising going on.
The only way to win is with small victories. Look at PETA and such. In years past they attacked all hunting and they didn't win. They then regrouped and went after the weaker groups and won. We need each user group to come up with solid plans, with facts, not emotion, and then we need to support those groups or we will all lose. Lord knows F&G is not on our side.
Post by: 300rum on January 21, 2009, 09:25:45 PM
None of us want to find middle ground right off the bat, but if you know anything about politics or war, you need a backup plan.
[/quote]
Know way to much about politics and some about the wars that we have fought in the past 30 some years to have a backup plan that means to compromise.
Plan one is to win. Back up is to win. Giving up a little is what has been going to for too long.
Post by: Ray on January 21, 2009, 09:27:27 PM
Post by: 300rum on January 21, 2009, 09:36:06 PM
I'll be watching for your victory lap. Seriously I hope we don't lose out. You can leave the tired old scolding tone somewhere else. I think we all know what is at stake here.
No one is being scolded. My fear is that we aren't going to see any victory laps again. The passion that we all love has slowly been eroded for years. I want to see BTKR in the woods in August forever. Compromising on our instrument of choice in order to have a piece of what we once had is not any victory at all, it is the slow deterioration, to what I feel, is the inevitable.
Post by: billythekidrock on January 21, 2009, 09:39:32 PM
If F&G says No hunting in August and we tell them we want to the way we always have and they still say no, then what is our option?
Post by: Ray on January 21, 2009, 09:39:49 PM
Post by: 300rum on January 21, 2009, 09:42:42 PM
Post by: 300rum on January 21, 2009, 09:47:14 PM
Again, I hear you, but answer me this.
If F&G says No hunting in August and we tell them we want to the way we always have and they still say no, then what is our option?
The only option we have is to find out if we have any pro-hunting members of the legislature and try to find out who made the noise on this one. I don't think that there is anyone at the F&G level that want to tackle this one, they caved at the first chance. There was a forrest harvester, or whatever you call them, shot in Elk season too. If that happens again, who is to say that they won't go after those season's?
Post by: bowhuntin on January 21, 2009, 09:55:01 PM
Again, I hear you, but answer me this.
If F&G says No hunting in August and we tell them we want to the way we always have and they still say no, then what is our option?
The only option we have is to find out if we have any pro-hunting members of the legislature and try to find out who made the noise on this one. I don't think that there is anyone at the F&G level that want to tackle this one, they caved at the first chance. There was a forrest harvester, or whatever you call them, shot in Elk season too. If that happens again, who is to say that they won't go after those season's?
I posted an announcement by the WSAA, WSB and TBW of what took place with the archery seasons. It is worth reading IMO.
So let me get this straight WDFW isn't going to allow any bear hunting statewide in August or only in certain areas, either way this proposal should be fought.
Post by: bobcat on January 21, 2009, 09:59:38 PM
Post by: SHANE(WA) on January 22, 2009, 12:44:40 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on January 22, 2009, 05:43:08 AM
How about a minimum age to hunt on public lands in August? Since that "accident" is why they are proposing this change in the first place.
The minimum age (14) requirement to hunt alone will be discussed/decided today. Also a possible "visible clothing" rule for everyone in the outdoors at that time.
yeah its great to get out that early, but the hides are junk
A lot of us don't care about hides, only meat.
Is this topic is referring to the lady that got shot near rockport last year?
The topic is about the proposed closure that is a knee jerk reaction to an unfortunate incident.
Post by: saylean on January 22, 2009, 08:58:57 AM
If they are concerned about the population in decline, they should have limited the bag limit to 1 bear. (personally, I have never seen so many bears as I have in the past few years)
If they are worried about too many females being taken, they should re instate baiting.
If they are worried about saftey, they should look at the previous 20+ years and 1,000's of hunting hours in the woods that were safe, not the one poor decision on a foggy day but an adolescent.
With that said, I think muzzleloader or archery would be better than nothing, but frankly this is BS. There are what...hundreds of thousands of public land in this state and we are not allowed to use any of it in August because of others using it.
I am headed to Ellensburg for the meeting, thats for sure.
Post by: strutnrut1984 on January 22, 2009, 09:21:43 AM
Post by: saylean on January 22, 2009, 09:29:42 AM
Post by: actionshooter on January 23, 2009, 08:46:56 PM
I hope everyone is sending a letter to let WDFG know how they feel.
Its not much but here is mine.
I need to vent my frustration with the proposed rule change that would stop bear hunting on public land in August. While I do agree that there can be conflicts in certain areas, there are huge amounts of public land where there is little to no conflicts. In areas of the Olympic and Wentchee National Forests which I am familiar with, I will not see another person all day with the exception of people driving on main lines. For people who are actually hunting bear (not those who just carry a tag just in case), August is the best month with some of the best areas being in the public lands.
Please reconsider this proposed change.
Post by: Ray on January 23, 2009, 08:48:24 PM
Post by: actionshooter on January 23, 2009, 08:58:18 PM
AND I have only read 3 so far!!
There gonna ban me e-mail address before I'm done!!! :bash: :bash: :bash: >:(
Post by: hunterdadandgirls on January 23, 2009, 11:31:58 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on January 24, 2009, 10:53:46 AM
They should change the definition of "Public" and "use" in the dictionary.
If they are concerned about the population in decline, they should have limited the bag limit to 1 bear. (personally, I have never seen so many bears as I have in the past few years)
If they are worried about too many females being taken, they should re instate baiting.
If they are worried about saftey, they should look at the previous 20+ years and 1,000's of hunting hours in the woods that were safe, not the one poor decision on a foggy day but an adolescent.
With that said, I think muzzleloader or archery would be better than nothing, but frankly this is BS. There are what...hundreds of thousands of public land in this state and we are not allowed to use any of it in August because of others using it.
I am headed to Ellensburg for the meeting, thats for sure.
exactly if they are worried about females being shot, for bear or lion, then re instate hounding and baiting
Post by: Abolt338 on January 25, 2009, 01:53:12 PM
On principle, compromise would be just as bad as closing the whole month. If we compromise, we're saying, "yes, it's okay that you can manage wildlife based on emotional outbursts."
We have to fight this tooth and nail, showing why the August season is so important to bear hunters and demonstrate that there is really NO justification on the grounds of conflict between hunters and "other recreational users."
My letter:
Dear Commission,
I am writing in opposition to the proposed season change for Washington State fall bear season. Moving the season opener on public lands from August 1 to September 1 significantly impacts hunting opportunity while does little to mitigate conflicts between hunters and other recreational land users.
The August 1 bear opener provides an opportunity to hunt when no other big-game seasons are available. As a positive consequence, bear hunters have an entire month to spend in the woods before the majority of big-game hunters - deer hunters, elk hunters, etc. - fill popular public hunting grounds. Because of this, August is the ideal month for serious bear hunters to fill their tag – long before bears become spooked by a massive influx of other hunters.
The proposal states that moving opening day to September 1 aims to “reduce conflict with other recreational users on public lands.” In theory, this makes sense. It begs the question, however, “what is the actual justification for the decision?”
In my experience, as the season currently stands, there is very little conflict between these two groups. Most bear hunters make it a point to access areas away from people. When they do encounter other people, most hunters – who are well aware that they are under a microscope – make certain to act with respect and avoid any negative interaction.
Is it a coincidence that just this last season, a young bear hunter accidently shot and killed a hiker during the August season? I would wager not. But let us not forget that this accident was the first of its kind in the last twenty-five years. That’s a quarter century of harmless interaction between hunters and other recreational users. Is the season change justified based on one accident and the emotional public discourse that followed?
Some hunters, like myself, are limited in their hunting opportunities. For some, the August bear season is the only opportunity to pursue big-game. College students who have to return to campus before September, high-school students who have extra-curricular commitments once the school year begins, these are just a couple examples of people who this change affects.
Bear hunters in Washington are already a significant minority. This change will only reduce our numbers, similar to the elimination of bait and hounds.
The WDFW states that hunting is its most-effective tool for game management; but that tool is only available if there are hunters who choose to partake. Reducing the bear season by delaying the opener significantly impacts the opportunity for a very specific group of hunters and fails to address any real conflict. Because of this, I ask that the commission forgo this rule change and maintain the general bear season, keeping the opener on August 1.
Sincerely,
Rylan Weythman
Cashmere, WA
Post by: WDFW-SUX on January 25, 2009, 01:58:02 PM
Bear baiting / hounds
OTC archery
August Bears
Its all going the way of the Dodo..........
Post by: saylean on January 25, 2009, 02:26:40 PM
This bear thing is weak...........I love going out in August and looking for bears. Pretty soon this whole "hunting" thing will be considered too dangerous if we allow them to cherry pick our seasons.
Bear baiting / hounds
OTC archery
August Bears
Its all going the way of the Dodo..........
not if i can help it.
Post by: CJ-5 on January 28, 2009, 08:25:58 AM
Post by: actionshooter on January 28, 2009, 05:59:16 PM
Nice letter Abolt. I sent one in a couple days ago and i hope alot people do the same. This is absolute *censored* that they are trying to take away our public land for August because a 14 YEAR OLD KID failed to identify his target before he shot...
I think its something that they have wanted and now have a reason
Post by: Lungbuster on January 29, 2009, 08:59:19 PM
to: wildthing@dfw.wa.gov
subject: RE: Hunting Season Recommendations
They are looking for input... so if you can get enough people to e-mail them maybe your voice might get heard. I have sent one from my personal, work, second e-mail, and girlfriends account. There are some goods in their 09-12 proposal and too many bad ones.
Post by: fc2038 on January 30, 2009, 06:44:22 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on January 31, 2009, 09:51:33 PM