Post by: NWBrute on January 22, 2009, 08:00:37 AM
Post by: videoman on January 22, 2009, 09:34:06 PM
Post by: dbllunger on January 22, 2009, 09:37:16 PM
Post by: Slider on January 22, 2009, 09:46:17 PM
Personally I think that is a good thing. By doing this the swakane will become a trophy unit again.
All it will do is give the tribes another place to hunt and they wont have to drive as far?
Post by: GoPlayOutside on January 22, 2009, 09:50:00 PM
This is all coming from one moron biologist out of the Chelan area who thinks the archers just slaughter the hillsides during the late season. I'm up there every year talking to everyone I see, trying to get feedback and hunting statistics (success rates)...I have found that the success rates are the same in the Swakane as they are in most areas 9-14%.
The moron biologist I talked to is the one who has proposed the restriction. I asked him how he gets his #'s of buck to doe ratios and overall counts. He said by helicopter. I got kind of snitty and said what do you think the factor of error percentage is in your heli counts. He laughed, and said "I don't know, but I know you guys are slaughtering them."
That is complete bulls---!
As for making the area a trophy area again...get your butt out there and spend some time on those hills. There are great bucks out there if you put your hiking boots on. TROPHY AREA, Ha! WDFW would love to make everything a trophy area...so they could get their hands on a lot more revenue and special permit $.
Post by: GoPlayOutside on January 22, 2009, 09:51:16 PM
Post by: alecvg on January 22, 2009, 09:58:09 PM
I think it's bulls---! The rumor is that they are going to open more modern and muzzleloader tags for the area. So why take away from the late archers, to help the plinkers.
This is all coming from one moron biologist out of the Chelan area who thinks the archers just slaughter the hillsides during the late season. I'm up there every year talking to everyone I see, trying to get feedback and hunting statistics (success rates)...I have found that the success rates are the same in the Swakane as they are in most areas 9-14%.
The moron biologist I talked to is the one who has proposed the restriction. I asked him how he gets his #'s of buck to doe ratios and overall counts. He said by helicopter. I got kind of snitty and said what do you think the factor of error percentage is in your heli counts. He laughed, and said "I don't know, but I know you guys are slaughtering them."
That is complete bulls---!
As for making the area a trophy area again...get your butt out there and spend some time on those hills. There are great bucks out there if you put your hiking boots on. TROPHY AREA, Ha! WDFW would love to make everything a trophy area...so they could get their hands on a lot more revenue and special permit $.
I agree, I hunted there for the first time this year, and fell in love with the area, in fact, I hope to live out there someday. And there defintly are tropheys out there, I sure saw a few dandy's! I didn't acually get to hunt, I went along helping to glass with the spotting scope, but just that one weekend made me want to convert to archery in the next few years... guess that isn't going to happen anymore! That was the funest hunt I have ever bee on! STUPID WDFW!!!!
Post by: GoPlayOutside on January 22, 2009, 10:03:06 PM
Post by: spin05 on January 23, 2009, 02:00:34 AM
Post by: Sage Weasel on January 26, 2009, 09:35:36 PM
Post by: smitty on January 26, 2009, 09:54:30 PM
Post by: nwhunter on January 26, 2009, 10:01:50 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 26, 2009, 10:09:13 PM
Good idea. I like it.
Post by: mossback91 on January 26, 2009, 10:12:50 PM
Post by: Bullelk on January 26, 2009, 11:07:27 PM
Post by: spin05 on January 27, 2009, 12:40:56 AM
What they should have tried before making it a permit unit was making it an unlimited draw unit that you could put in for but if you drew it that is the only place you could deer hunt that year. I think it would have eliminated the guys who came over just because they still had a tag and left it a quality hunt for those who are committed to late season mulies. OF course way to confusing of a concept I guess. nwhunter
Thats how Oregon does it.But not unlimited draw.But the good units are your only archer deer opportunity..
Post by: johnsc6 on January 27, 2009, 07:17:49 AM
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on January 27, 2009, 08:19:34 AM
As I've said earlier, I think the .280 will come in-service this year if we lose the Swakane late hunt.
And, Videoman. Solely cutting the late Swakane archery hunt out WILL NOT make the Swakane "a trophy unit again."
Keep up the good fight ladies and gents, and I'll see you in Eburg come March.
Post by: TheHunt on January 27, 2009, 06:08:52 PM
Post by: hunt4 on January 27, 2009, 08:12:50 PM
Keep up the good fight ladies and gents, and I'll see you in Eburg come March.
We should be there by the bus loads!
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 27, 2009, 08:33:56 PM
I like NW Hunter's idea. hmmm, applicable common sense... careful, if WDFW gets wind of that they may put out a contract on you...
Post by: zackmioli on January 28, 2009, 08:54:04 AM
I think it's bulls---! The rumor is that they are going to open more modern and muzzleloader tags for the area. So why take away from the late archers, to help the plinkers.The WDFW sure loves to see hunters ragging on other hunters. Why do you think they do this *censored*? Its to pin us against each other. Archers have a ton of opportunites (more than modern and muzzleloaders), its nice to see the "plinkers" getting something good. IMO.
Post by: ICEMAN on January 28, 2009, 08:14:35 PM
Post by: Bullelk on January 28, 2009, 09:44:39 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on January 29, 2009, 05:26:46 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on January 29, 2009, 07:24:50 PM
Post by: Lungbuster on January 29, 2009, 11:05:29 PM
Post by: 243slinger on January 30, 2009, 09:23:54 PM
Post by: dbllunger on January 30, 2009, 09:28:10 PM
Post by: CSOUTFITTERS on February 03, 2009, 01:31:35 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on February 03, 2009, 02:00:00 PM
"Plinkers?" Are bow guys "Flingers" then...? :chuckle:Too many of them in Swakane sure are!
Post by: Branden on February 04, 2009, 11:44:34 PM
Post by: spin05 on February 05, 2009, 04:15:39 AM
This is one of the best things for mule deer to happen in this state in a long time. There should be no general late season muley hunts.
The only people that benifiet from this is the early high hunt guys(not open to archery). And the rifle hunters who get the closest shot at getting any snow during there hunt.If thats the case then every eastside unit should have late archery permits EVERY ONE........Maybe then it wont take 6 years to get drawn
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 05, 2009, 05:36:18 AM
Early High hunt is open to archery you just have to wear hunter orange.
Post by: bobcat on February 05, 2009, 06:25:04 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 05, 2009, 06:26:37 AM
Isn't having healthy mule deer herds a benefit to everybody whether they get to hunt them or not?
Only makes sense!!
Post by: spin05 on February 05, 2009, 07:45:18 AM
Early High hunt is open to archery you just have to wear hunter orange.
But you have to buy a modern tag to do that. NO thanks!!!
Post by: luvtohnt on February 05, 2009, 08:11:56 AM
Quote
But you have to buy a modern tag to do that. NO thanks!!!
No you don't all the wilderness areas are open for the general archery season!!
Brandon
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 05, 2009, 08:48:38 AM
Post by: WABONEHNTR on February 05, 2009, 09:14:12 AM
By the sounds of the talk on here about this unit people here are not after quality. I bow hunt so don't think I am bashing or blaming bow hunters. I just think it a shame to turn such great producing units, to just average ones. I believe over hunting has done this, (too many permits and general late season). I have helped with the majority of the governor deer tags and over the years and have seen the quality go way down. Gov tag holders only used to hunt these units looking for a big buck and now they have become 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice for a big buck with the gov tag.
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on February 05, 2009, 09:57:12 AM
The swakane unit used to be a top unit in the state along with the entiat. Now they are just mere units. I wish they would close it down totally to get the quality back up to what it should be. I know closing it is not practable. Reducing the amount of kills will bring the quality back up. After the big fire 1995 it was closed for a while. When it was opened back up it was amazing. Then the tag amounts went way up and now we have 2 units with average bucks. Yes a nice one is shot now and then.
By the sounds of the talk on here about this unit people here are not after quality. I bow hunt so don't think I am bashing or blaming bow hunters. I just think it a shame to turn such great producing units, to just average ones. I believe over hunting has done this, (too many permits and general late season). I have helped with the majority of the governor deer tags and over the years and have seen the quality go way down. Gov tag holders only used to hunt these units looking for a big buck and now they have become 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice for a big buck with the gov tag.
I disagree with most all you wrote here WABONHNTR!
"After the big fire 1995 it was closed for a while" What was CLOSED?
"Gov tag holders only used to hunt these units looking for a big buck and now they have become 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice for a big buck with the gov tag." Still sounds great to me with the ranking you gave them!
"I have helped with the majority of the governor deer tags and over the years and have seen the quality go way down." Ah, never mind!
Post by: WABONEHNTR on February 05, 2009, 10:15:14 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on February 05, 2009, 10:25:55 AM
The swakane unit used to be a top unit in the state along with the entiat. Now they are just mere units. I wish they would close it down totally to get the quality back up to what it should be.
By the sounds of the talk on here about this unit people here are not after quality. I have helped with the majority of the governor deer tags and over the years and have seen the quality go way down. Gov tag holders only used to hunt these units looking for a big buck and now they have become 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice for a big buck with the gov tag.
By all means, let's take a whole bunch of opportunity away from a bunch of average hunters, so you can more easily pocket a finder's fee from the fat cat auction tag holder. Gimme a .... break.
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on February 05, 2009, 10:34:05 AM
All I am saying is the numbers of quality bucks has gone way down. There is no way you can deny this.
I agree it's down, but not "way down." This herd, like any other, is cyclical in quality and quantity with regard to weather and harvest.
I agree, and I too like the idea of eastside permit only for mule deer for all.
Post by: WABONEHNTR on February 05, 2009, 11:29:53 AM
I just think it is sad to see 2 units that are known for and have always kicked out monster bucks not produce what they should. I think cutting back tags and seasons will bring it back.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 05, 2009, 11:33:52 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 05, 2009, 06:38:50 PM
QuoteBut you have to buy a modern tag to do that. NO thanks!!!
No you don't all the wilderness areas are open for the general archery season!!
Brandon
Well that's not completely true, but close. The Pasayten (GMU 203) is not open for archery. But Clark (244) which is the Glacier Peak Wilderness above the Entiat and Swakane units, AND the Alpine (249) which is the Alpine Lakes Wilderness, is open for early archery season from Sept. 1 to Sept. 25, for 3 pt. minimum or antlerless. That is prime time to be hunting the wilderness and gives archers 14 days of hunting BEFORE the modern firearm/muzzleloader "high buck" hunt begins.
I'd say archery hunters have it pretty good.
Post by: gasman on February 05, 2009, 08:26:39 PM
Quote
I'd say archery hunters have it pretty good.
:liar:
Sounds like some one is needs to try archery huting for a few years.............
Post by: bobcat on February 05, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
Need tips on hunting mule deer with a bow? I recommend "Hunting Open Country Mule Deer" by Dwight Schuh.
Oh, and if backpacking isn't your thing, I'd recommend doing a drop camp with Icicle Outfitters. http://www.icicleoutfitters.com/hunting.html
Post by: Ironhead on February 06, 2009, 05:19:11 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 06, 2009, 06:43:45 AM
Besides, why does it have to be about success rates? I thought guys hunt archery for the challenge and not because they feel they have to kill something every year? The point is the archers have the opportunities to hunt good country at the best time. If they don't take advantage of it, well that is not the WDFW's fault. They are giving them the opportunity.
By the way, another good book to read is Backcountry Bow Hunting by Cameron Haines.
http://www.amazon.com/Backcountry-Bowhunting-Guide-Wild-Side/dp/0977883701
And, Hunting High Country Mule Deer by Mike Eastman.
http://www.amazon.com/Backcountry-Bowhunting-Guide-Wild-Side/dp/0977883701
Post by: spin05 on February 06, 2009, 07:53:15 AM
QuoteBut you have to buy a modern tag to do that. NO thanks!!!
No you don't all the wilderness areas are open for the general archery season!!
Brandon
Well that's not completely true, but close. The Pasayten (GMU 203) is not open for archery. But Clark (244) which is the Glacier Peak Wilderness above the Entiat and Swakane units, AND the Alpine (249) which is the Alpine Lakes Wilderness, is open for early archery season from Sept. 1 to Sept. 25, for 3 pt. minimum or antlerless. That is prime time to be hunting the wilderness and gives archers 14 days of hunting BEFORE the modern firearm/muzzleloader "high buck" hunt begins.
I'd say archery hunters have it pretty good.
Yea pasayten is what i was thinking.I forget those other areas are GMU's. Why dont they just list it like the do for modern,as wldernes areas?? We archery guys HAD it good you mean..Next year it will be all gone except the high hunt.Even for all that good we still have one of the lowest success rates. Most do hunt for the challenge.If it was up to me i would hunt the whole season then kill a deer on the last day before dark.....In the end we are out for the reason of killing something.......
Post by: WABONEHNTR on February 06, 2009, 08:03:38 AM
Post by: rougheye on February 06, 2009, 08:12:38 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 06, 2009, 08:16:52 AM
Even for all that good we still have one of the lowest success rates.
I wouldn't say the archery success rates are low. Right between muzzleloader and rifle, 25% doesn't seem all that bad.
WASHINGTON
Statewide Deer Harvest Statistics
for the 2007 Hunting Season
Weapon Type
General Season Permit Season Total Hunter
Harvest Harvest Harvest Success
Modern Firearm 26,234 4,165 30,399 27.8%
Archery 4,535 429 4,964 25.1%
Muzzleloader 1,818 259 2,077 23.3%
Statewide Total 32,999 4,893 37,892 27.2%
Post by: rougheye on February 06, 2009, 08:20:55 AM
Well when they take away our top producing late hunt away and reduce the top producing permit area from 230 permits to 17 , success rates will drop :dunno:Even for all that good we still have one of the lowest success rates.
I wouldn't say the archery success rates are low. Right between muzzleloader and rifle, 25% doesn't seem all that bad.
WASHINGTON
Statewide Deer Harvest Statistics
for the 2007 Hunting Season
Weapon Type
General Season Permit Season Total Hunter
Harvest Harvest Harvest Success
Modern Firearm 26,234 4,165 30,399 27.8%
Archery 4,535 429 4,964 25.1%
Muzzleloader 1,818 259 2,077 23.3%
Statewide Total 32,999 4,893 37,892 27.2%
Post by: WABONEHNTR on February 06, 2009, 08:47:31 AM
Post by: spin05 on February 06, 2009, 11:13:51 AM
Post by: Ironhead on February 06, 2009, 06:22:57 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 06, 2009, 06:40:52 PM
Post by: gasman on February 06, 2009, 08:24:55 PM
As for the Sept high hunt, if you have been out in Early Sept hunting at all, you would know that, "Most", not all are running "NOCTERNAL", that means that the deer bed during the day and come out at night to feed. Why, because "ITS HOT", shorts are part of my Sept hunting attire (with a bug suit over them).
For a riffle hunter on a high or any hunt for that matter i could pick a spot and shoot my animal from 500 yards (i practice), but when i archery hunt i have to "SNEAK" in to with in 50 yards of the animals with out being detected to get a shot.
Any loss of a single area (no matter how good or bad) is a blow the archery hunters. As a riffle hunter i will gain more opportunity's at the ex pence of others.
Archers should get as many options as they can, for they are the ones who have to work for there quarry and can't just sit with a cup of coffee by a fire and shoot an animal when it goes by. I have seen it before............
Post by: hunt4 on February 06, 2009, 08:31:25 PM
4,535 archery harvest ..50 % of this # is does were rifle hunters took 22,482 bucks and only 2,656 doesEven for all that good we still have one of the lowest success rates.
I wouldn't say the archery success rates are low. Right between muzzleloader and rifle, 25% doesn't seem all that bad.
WASHINGTON
Statewide Deer Harvest Statistics
for the 2007 Hunting Season
Weapon Type
General Season Permit Season Total Hunter
Harvest Harvest Harvest Success
Modern Firearm 26,234 4,165 30,399 27.8%
Archery 4,535 429 4,964 25.1%
Muzzleloader 1,818 259 2,077 23.3%
Statewide Total 32,999 4,893 37,892 27.2%
so now lets look at DRAWS
Special Permits Antlered Antlerless Total
Modern Firearm 1,567 3,183 4,750
Muzzleloader 84 242 326
Archery 157 209 366
Multiple Weapon 20 5 25
Sub-total 1,828 3,639 5,467
it seems to me rifle took 10 times more antlered in the draws than archery TEN TIMES! and over FIFTEEN TIMES the amount of does.
Post by: bobcat on February 06, 2009, 08:34:22 PM
Post by: rougheye on February 06, 2009, 08:36:20 PM
Damn archery hunters need to quit killing all those does! That's terrible. We need those does to produce more bucks!
Rifle hunters need to stop killin all those does :o
Post by: Ironhead on February 06, 2009, 08:47:32 PM
We lossed the late season in Swakane, Wanacut, Pogue, Sinlahekin, Manson, Peola, and Kahlotus plus lossed 6 days in September. If it was one unit I wouldn't mind so much this is 75% of the late hunts. Although success is not the only reason I hunt, I do like venison.
Post by: Thenewguy on February 06, 2009, 08:51:05 PM
4,535 archery harvest ..50 % of this # is does were rifle hunters took 22,482 bucks and only 2,656 doesEven for all that good we still have one of the lowest success rates.
I wouldn't say the archery success rates are low. Right between muzzleloader and rifle, 25% doesn't seem all that bad.
WASHINGTON
Statewide Deer Harvest Statistics
for the 2007 Hunting Season
Weapon Type
General Season Permit Season Total Hunter
Harvest Harvest Harvest Success
Modern Firearm 26,234 4,165 30,399 27.8%
Archery 4,535 429 4,964 25.1%
Muzzleloader 1,818 259 2,077 23.3%
Statewide Total 32,999 4,893 37,892 27.2%
so now lets look at DRAWS
Special Permits Antlered Antlerless Total
Modern Firearm 1,567 3,183 4,750
Muzzleloader 84 242 326
Archery 157 209 366
Multiple Weapon 20 5 25
Sub-total 1,828 3,639 5,467
it seems to me rifle took 10 times more antlered in the draws than archery TEN TIMES! and over FIFTEEN TIMES the amount of does.
how many more rifle hunters are do you think?
Post by: mikelonsford on February 06, 2009, 08:57:24 PM
Post by: gasman on February 06, 2009, 09:04:38 PM
The deer herd around Yakima is not as god as the Wenatchee area.
Never hunted Cowiche but Little Naches sucks for deer. All the deer move to the Umtanum unit wich is closed for late deer hunting. Nile area has gitten wose over the years with all the elk hnters in there and low deer numbers.
It all sucks for this years archery season.........
Post by: 270Shooter on February 06, 2009, 09:06:38 PM
Post by: hunt4 on February 06, 2009, 10:03:15 PM
Quote
(129,743) 5 times as many rifle deer hunters..Does not matter, there killing the late archery for what reason? aparently because archery is killing 10 times less bucks? :bash:
how many more rifle hunters are do you think?
This makes no sense ...fine make it a draw only but why are they not cutting back on the rifle tags?
Post by: hunt4 on February 06, 2009, 10:14:19 PM
And yes, I feel I may get more opportunity if the Chelan mule deer numbers and buck to doe ratios are kept at reasonably high numbers, as someday I would like to hunt the September "high buck" hunt in the Glacier Peak Wilderness, and the more bucks killed by archery hunters in November out of the Swakane unit means less bucks for me the following September.:dunno: Maybee you should look at getting rid of cars and trucks to, they have a much greater impact on these deer # than the archery hunters.
Post by: spin05 on February 07, 2009, 08:54:04 AM
Quote from: bobcat link=topic=18726.msg231317 17 date=1233981262
Damn archery hunters need to quit killing all those does! That's terrible. We need those does to produce more bucks!
Our success rates include doe's.So take probly 1/3 or more off if doe hunting is eliminated.Oh and by the way archery hunters spent 51.2 days in the feild to achieve that.Rifle spent 24.8 to acheive theres. So now that season days will be cut back you can cut another 1/3 off that. I bet if the season package goes thru as its written we will be below 20% success rate and rifle will push 30%............ :twocents: :bdid:
Post by: Branden on February 07, 2009, 12:08:10 PM
As for the Sept high hunt, if you have been out in Early Sept hunting at all, you would know that, "Most", not all are running "NOCTERNAL", that means that the deer bed during the day and come out at night to feed. Why, because "ITS HOT", shorts are part of my Sept hunting attire (with a bug suit over them).
You must have never been in the high country in September if thats what you think. The bucks are out all day long until the high hunt starts.
The reason I started archery hunting is for the challenge. I have never seen anybody archery hunting the high country but tons of rifle hunters. Maybe rifle hunters actually hunt harder then most archery hunters? And who cares about success rates? Does everybody feel like a crappy hunter if they don't tag an animal every year?
Like I said this is the best thing to happen for the mule deer in this state in a long time.
Post by: nw_bowhunter on February 07, 2009, 01:32:45 PM
BTW Bobcat the comment about “Damn archery hunters need to quit killing all those does! That's terrible. We need those does to produce more bucks! Perfect example of not sticking together.
Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2009, 01:51:30 PM
Post by: spin05 on February 07, 2009, 03:56:36 PM
Although I do think there ARE too many does being killed in certain units, and many of them are taken during archery seasons, since many of the archery seasons are for either sex.
Ha...... yea 12 out of 20 units for late muleys open for doe's.Non of wich other then the swakane are the premier unit we were talking about.Everybody i know goes buck only in the early season.So take away the doe's in the early season, unless your a youth ,and leave the rest alone.Maybe that will solve your problem................
Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2009, 04:20:12 PM
Post by: bowhuntin on February 07, 2009, 04:31:03 PM
Deer: 2003-007
Total Hunters: 492,163
User group size:
Archery: 62,730 - 12.75%
M/F: 395,457 - 80.35%
M/L: 33,976 - 6.9%
Total Deer harvest: 173,406 - % of harvest
Archery: 19,727 - 11.38%
M/F: 142,195 - 82.0%
M/L: 11,484 - 6.62%
Looks like everything was working to me. No reason to eliminate or change any of the seasons. The only reason these changes are being proposed is because of Chip McBroom who lobbied for better seasons using data that didn't show the whole story. We should keep status quo IMO. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2009, 04:42:26 PM
Quote
As a result of the public support (sometimes strong support), the following are recommended hunting season proposals for 2009-2011 general deer seasons and special permits for the fall of 2009:
• Increase the number of GMUs open for general season muzzleloader opportunity. Increase the general muzzleloader season from 7 to 9 days, and shift the timing to decrease some of the overlap with muzzleloader elk season.
• Shift the antlerless permits in GMUs 101-142 to “2nd deer” permits.
• Increase the number of GMUs open to late season special permit opportunities in Region 2 for archers and muzzleloaders. Reduce the number of GMUs open to late general season archery in Region 2 to reduce overall high pressure and hunter crowding while deer are on winter range.
• Shifting early muzzleloader and late archery opportunity to a late muzzleloader season
structure in GMU 381.
• Move GMU 574 to “any buck”, move GMU 578 to “3 pt. min.”, reduce the late season
pressure in GMU 388 from general season to special permit.
Post by: Ironhead on February 07, 2009, 05:55:59 PM
The rifle and muzzleloader hunts will get more crowded if the proposal stands, because the guys that used to drive the roads and hunt the easy pickens in the late season and the on the border guys aren't going to see the oppurtunities they had during the late season and will start looking for easier oppurtunities ie, rifles and muzzleloaders.
Post by: hunt4 on February 07, 2009, 08:56:04 PM
but in the end it will be the wildlife biologists who do the counts, and the studies, and go over all the harvest data, who will be making the decisions on how to set the seasons.
:crap: :crap: :crap:.....keep on living in that delusional world local biologist here signed the archery petition, in so many words said they (WDFG) do not listen to what biologist really have to say on how things should be managed, its all about the old mighty dollar and the general fund..he really disagreed with allot of things being shoved down are throats...example..
offering 10 goat tags in xx unit were he felt the herd was now in great shape and this could send them backwards in there progress they have achieved.
And your comment about the killing of does...hmmm rifle hunters killed almost as many does than archery hunters killed deer
Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2009, 10:51:33 PM
We all can have our opinions but in the end it will be the wildlife biologists who do the counts, and the studies, and go over all the harvest data, who will be making the decisions on how to set the seasons. Or if it's not the biologists making the decisions, it should be.
Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2009, 10:56:19 PM
The rifle and muzzleloader hunts will get more crowded if the proposal stands, because the guys that used to drive the roads and hunt the easy pickens in the late season and the on the border guys aren't going to see the oppurtunities they had during the late season and will start looking for easier oppurtunities ie, rifles and muzzleloaders.
This is why they just need to eliminate ALL general mule deer seasons and go to permit only. Limit the number of hunters in each GMU and then we wouldn't have all this bickering over who gets the better opportunities. You apply for the permit you want, if you don't get it, wait till next year and try again. If you don't get to hunt deer that year, go hunt bears and cougars and coyotes. Or ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse, chukar, or quail. There's no lack of hunting opportunity in this state. No need to hunt mule deer every single year, in my opinion.
Post by: bowhuntin on February 07, 2009, 10:59:55 PM
The rifle and muzzleloader hunts will get more crowded if the proposal stands, because the guys that used to drive the roads and hunt the easy pickens in the late season and the on the border guys aren't going to see the oppurtunities they had during the late season and will start looking for easier oppurtunities ie, rifles and muzzleloaders.
This is why they just need to eliminate ALL general mule deer seasons and go to permit only. Limit the number of hunters in each GMU and then we wouldn't have all this bickering over who gets the better opportunities. You apply for the permit you want, if you don't get it, wait till next year and try again. If you don't get to hunt deer that year, go hunt bears and cougars and coyotes. Or ducks, geese, pheasant, grouse, chukar, or quail. There's no lack of hunting opportunity in this state. No need to hunt mule deer every single year, in my opinion.
That sure wouldn't bother me being an archery guy, it would just mean better odds of drawing a special permit for one of these areas.
Post by: ICEMAN on February 08, 2009, 06:36:45 AM
You are a more dedicated hunter than most. Hunters like you have many options for hunting already. They already hunt multiple species and probably have multiple choices of weapons....they also understand what makes a great hunt. They already appreciate less pressure, and more mature animals to harvest.
I believe that most hunters would not want to give up their yearly hunting rituals and traditions. " I hunt in the same spot my grandpa and my daddy did, with the same rifle my grandpa and my daddy had...." Not that there is anything wrong with this approach, but may not be as open to sitting a season out and trying something completely new to them.
For me, my mule deer hunt is sacred. On the other hand, I hate it. Some years we see fewer guys in the area we hunt, others we get visitors. I have roamed around a bit during the hunt and visited other nearby GMU's just to check on hunter density, but I am not ready to bail on the area I have hunted for 25 years. I am not excited about bailing entirely on my beloved yearly hunt, to wait for my chance at hunting it, or another area...
I hate the thought, but to reduce the amount of hunting pressure an any area, I see higher license fees as my choice. I am willing to pay it, not sure everyone else is ....
Post by: nw_bowhunter on February 08, 2009, 08:19:33 AM
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 11:37:25 AM
Quote
This is why they just need to eliminate ALL general mule deer seasons and go to permit only.
This would definitely be the cure all as far as targetting a specific buck/doe ratio, unfortunately it will never happen, as Iceman stated the majority would be up in arms and F&W crumble at the first sign of pressure from from majorities.
As far as the Swakane as a single unit goes the general season in that area is not the problem. Do hunters tag mature trophy bucks in there in the middle of October, absolutely, just take a look at the toad Lemondog got in there in Oct. a few years ago, however for the most part the migrators don't hit that area until November and this is where F&W could dramatically help the herd and that's by severely cutting back on the permits and archery season :twocents:
Post by: lemondog on February 08, 2009, 11:50:02 AM
Post by: cle elum bowhunter on February 08, 2009, 02:22:17 PM
Rather than eliminate or cut archers off at the knees, why not try road management. Much of the swakane is criss-crossed with old logging roads. By closing off most of these, larger areas of escapement would be created, giving those willing to work for it their chances. If WDFW thinks the only way to protect the bucks is making a draw hunt, then why not at least put out 200 permits for archery. At current success rates that would equate to about 35-40 archery bucks harvested during the late season. Modern Firearm is given 38 for the swakane and 52 for the entiat. Historically, those modern rut tags enjoy 90 to almost 100% success. And now they will get another 6 days added to their special tags while the 15 and 17 archery tags will loose 4 days. If this doesn't look like an agenda against bowhunters, I don't know what to say. One other thing, if WDFW really is concerned about our mule deer in these units, why are they still going to have permit doe tags for muzzies in all units, modern doe tags in the mission, and general season archery open to does. STOP SHOOTING DOES! Typically, harvest of females(does and cows) is used to reduce population when there are issues of the population exceeding the holding capacity of the habitat. WDFW needs to pull their head out and not punish one user group and reward another in efforts to generate revenue, instead, why don't they manage the resource for all of us to have equitable harvest percentages. I guarentee that with this purposed changes, archery hunters will see severe declines in harvest success (I'll guess under 15%). See you in Ellensberg on the 6th.
Post by: rougheye on February 08, 2009, 02:32:39 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 02:39:32 PM
Quote
If WDFW thinks the only way to protect the bucks is making a draw hunt, then why not at least put out 200 permits for archery.
That would be a good option but I think 200 is way too many. With the success rates being what they have been 15 modern and 100 archery permits in both Swakane and Entiat would help for a few years and then re-evaluate :twocents:
Post by: cle elum bowhunter on February 08, 2009, 02:57:49 PM
Post by: boneaddict on February 08, 2009, 04:41:27 PM
Post by: Curly on February 08, 2009, 05:00:08 PM
Losing hunting opportunity scares me.... only being able to hunt permit only is not the solution IMO. I'm curious what you consider as the benefit of permit only? better deer heard, larger bucks, etc?
The benefit of permit only is that the area could actually be managed. The number of hunters could be limitted to a certain amount based on science instead of just letting everyone who wished to hunt there go show up on opening day. The 3-point minimum rules could be eliminated and deer herds would become healthier.
I would bet that the WDFW biologists have suggested permit only. The idea would get shot down immediately because hunters would complain because they may not get to hunt a certain unit every year. Therefore, the only management tools they have left is season timing, season length, and antler restrictions to try to manage the herd.
Permit only will never happen in this state. Hunters will put too much pressure on WDFW.
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 05:03:05 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 08, 2009, 05:05:51 PM
Permit only will never happen in this state. Hunters will put too much pressure on WDFW.
I think at some time in the future this state will be permit only hunting for mule deer, just for the same reason mountain goat, bighorn sheep, and moose are permit only. Just won't be enough animals for the number of people wanting to harvest one. But you're right, the WDFW is going to have to be really desperate and mule deer numbers at rock bottom before they will be able to convince people that eliminating the over-the-counter tags for mule deer is the only option left.
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 05:10:28 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 05:23:56 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 08, 2009, 05:36:42 PM
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 05:44:06 PM
Post by: gasman on February 08, 2009, 08:28:07 PM
I swear to God I said this a few posts back but its gone. Gate the damn thing at the bottom. This would solve over harvest and tribal influence.
Sorry guys, i highly disagree and am aposed with gating any public road way for any reason at all.
Gates are not the way to manage animal population. If you gate off roads for the porpose of hunting it stops to many other recreational activity that have nothing to do with hunting.
It would be more productive to move to a permit only system (wich i do not want to see) than to gate of access to the public hunting or not, and only closing the gates for hunting season is not a viable option either. Getting all the gates open or closed when they are suppose to be is another problem. It is a government agency we are discussing.........
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 08, 2009, 08:35:03 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 08:36:20 PM
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 08:38:27 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 08, 2009, 08:41:19 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 08:51:39 PM
Quote
I had a dad that was a parapeligic after his accident.
That is a problem isn't it! I suppose exceptions could be made for cases like that but then again how many people are taking advantage of disabled parking at the local grocery store.
Post by: bobcat on February 08, 2009, 09:01:47 PM
Post by: gasman on February 08, 2009, 09:05:51 PM
I hunt plenty of gated areas and drive many roads. Yes, i do get out of my jeep and hike the canyons or roads that are gated, it is my choice.
There are plenty of areas that i camp that have nothing to with hunting or fishing, and if they became closed, the general public would have no access to them.
All this is just a reaction to a supposide low deer count that the WDFW say we have or a reaction to the WDFW taking away the hunting many of us enjoy during late archery hunts. This is all over "money" the WDFW can get from permits being sold. Not building up the deer herd in a specific area.
Just a side note: A few years back i talked with a wildlife biologist (in Entiat Ranger Dist) that recommended the mule deer heard were back up to par and should be reopened to any buck hunts. He was informed from his bosses that if they did that they would lose a massive amount of income for the WDFW.
This all about the almighty dollar, not the deer population (the same is for the elk in the Yakima herd). (if the 3point min restriction is lifted you will get a higher success rate of the bigger bucks making it through the hunting season, most people will shoot the first legal buck they see, tag it and move on, witch will allow for many more 2 points killed by those that just shoot and leave the illegaly killed animal to rot, and allow more bigger bucks to survive with less hunters in the field).
Post by: gasman on February 08, 2009, 09:08:52 PM
The mainlines should be left open. No question about it. It's public land, the public should have reasonable access to use it. Gating off many of the spur roads is one thing, but to gate off the entire unit is wrong, and would never happen anyway so we don't need to worry about it. Why would they want to turn it into a unit that can only be hunted by hunters on horses...
Maybe the "GREEN DOT" system should be looked in to for the areas at question.
I do know that the "Little Naches" was a green dot system a few years back and removed it for lack of enforcement.
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 09:14:06 PM
Quote
most people will shoot the first legal buck they see,
Perhaps, but at the same time MORE people will be harvesting bucks leaving the the buck/doe ratio worse each year until the restriction needs to be implemented again and putting us at the same point we are at right now, the difference being we will have wasted another 3,4,5 years. :twocents:
Post by: cle elum bowhunter on February 08, 2009, 09:14:43 PM
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 09:15:27 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 09:17:06 PM
Quote
How about big double water bars put in by a dozer.
This has no effect on quads though. A gate and vehicle restriction is the only way to keep 99% of vehicles out.
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 09:19:06 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 08, 2009, 09:20:17 PM
Post by: mossback91 on February 08, 2009, 09:21:25 PM
ATV's aren't legal on National Forest roads anyway, or are they? Last time I checked, they were not. And I know the year I drew the late Entiat permit (2004), I never saw one ATV up there. :dunno:
No actually the forest service used to say Im not sure if it still does but they stated you could ride on the land just not their roads :bash: now they have designated roads sometime which will ahve signs on them........
Post by: huntnphool on February 08, 2009, 09:22:37 PM
Quote
ATV's aren't legal on National Forest roads anyway, or are they?
:dunno:
Post by: bobcat on February 08, 2009, 09:24:11 PM
ATV's aren't legal on National Forest roads anyway, or are they? Last time I checked, they were not. And I know the year I drew the late Entiat permit (2004), I never saw one ATV up there. :dunno:
No actually the forest service used to say Im not sure if it still does but they stated you could ride on the land just not their roads :bash: now they have designated roads sometime which will ahve signs on them........
Yeah I know they have a couple designated roads in each Ranger District but that isn't much good if a guy wants to use one for hunting. Those roads are just for the guys who want to go out and play around on their toy in the mud.
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 09:25:16 PM
Post by: cle elum bowhunter on February 08, 2009, 09:37:21 PM
Post by: Red Dawg on February 08, 2009, 09:44:43 PM
Post by: wints13 on February 17, 2009, 08:56:39 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 17, 2009, 08:57:30 PM
Post by: alecvg on February 17, 2009, 09:30:52 PM
Post by: remington300mag on February 17, 2009, 10:30:48 PM
thier taking away my Aug Bear hunt! and now my Swakane late hunt! what next!
Your money and your freedoms!!!!!
Post by: RUTNBULL1 on February 17, 2009, 10:44:37 PM
Post by: SHANE(WA) on February 18, 2009, 01:41:51 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on February 18, 2009, 08:43:08 PM
I can think of about 50 clearcuts that they need to gate off...