Post by: LongTatLaw on September 25, 2007, 11:47:08 PM
So, after well over a week and probably 60 hours looking I found the headless corpse of my once BEAUTIFUL 5x5 huge bodied bull elk. Ill post the story of the hunt after this rant.
So, I spend a few hours today combing the hillside for my bow killed elk. This has been my sad frequent hobby since I shot him and couldn't find him. :'(
Well, the landowner meets me at my truck with some "great news". A local kid (probably 20 years old) that mushroom hunts the property was bragging about finding the elk and having its head. :drool: :drool: :drool:
well, five minutes later Im at his house and he meets me at the truck as if he knew I was coming.
As Im asking him about the elk I see 1/2 of my very distinctive arrow bloodstained and wedged into the storage rack of his ATV. He admits the arrow was in the elk and in one piece when he found it. He decided to break off the arrow and take it home with him...why? :dunno: not sure... but he was nice enough to give me my now broken arrow back. :bash:
He admits he chopped the head off of the Elk >:( and even comments on how big it was. :bash: Well, after offering to pay 100$ for a "finders" fee his story just keeps changing. He told the land owner he had it. Now he says he cut its head off but then tied it to the tree next to the elk?? Well Ive been to the elk and theres no head tied to a tree.
Long story short... he has my horns and Im gonna try to introduce him to the friendly local game warden tomorrow.
My question?
I shed hunt... Ive found full skulls and dead animals whole as well. Ive taken many home and I see a cow elk skull I found in skookumchuck as I type.
However, why would anyone want a 5x5 (big but not amazing) elk head so bad that they would move it to make it impossible to find...brag to several people about having it.... all the while knowing who the elk belonged to and how to reach them.... then when the guy shows up at your door offering to pay you for his elk... I mean..trust me...
some guy knocks on my door tomorrow and tells me the area where I found this (3 years dead) cow elk skull.... Ill gift wrap it before I hand it over... and be glad to reunite the two of them.... right???
well the guys says I dont have it my buddy does.
I track down the buddy even though the poacher doesnt give me nearly enough info for a normal person to find him... he hasnt been near the elk and hasnt spoken to the poacher for months... but offers to help and suggests I call the game warden (not the advice of a guilty man).
So, now Im gonna try the game warden for help and if that doesnt work....??? Id not want to offer further comments on my intentions on the grounds that it may incriminate me later...lol
just kidding! sorta
oh well,
Ive seen one bull elk in the woods this year... and I killed him just to have him stolen from me. :'( The hunt story follows!
DONT POACH!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: MichaelJ on September 26, 2007, 12:04:58 AM
Michael
Post by: MichaelJ on September 26, 2007, 12:52:02 AM
Michael
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 06:36:11 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on September 26, 2007, 06:45:33 AM
I'm not sure what kind of legal right you have to it and them finding it, but get the law man there with you. When one shows up on their porch, their sotry just might change.
My thoughts exactly.
Post by: jackelope on September 26, 2007, 07:36:07 AM
wdfw incident report phone #, also the poaching hotline #
1-800-477-6224
i keep it programmed into my cell phone.
too bad about the bull.
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 08:33:25 AM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 26, 2007, 10:19:27 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 12:12:38 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 26, 2007, 12:34:10 PM
call the incident report line now and tell them he picked up a dead head...see what happens. aside from that i think it is merely a question of ethics...right or wrong.
Post by: arrowflinger on September 26, 2007, 12:43:20 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 26, 2007, 12:47:08 PM
Quote
Is he a poacher or someone that just stole the head an animal??
kind of what i was thinking...did he even steal it, or did he just find it in the woods and take it home? not that i doubt your story, i just don;t think the guy's a "poacher"
a stone cold rig'd up bull laying dead in the woods, big rack, meat's spoiled, nobody's around, what would you do...maybe we should start a poll.
Post by: Ray on September 26, 2007, 01:14:47 PM
Quote
a stone cold rig'd up bull laying dead in the woods, big rack, meat's spoiled, nobody's around, what would you do...maybe we should start a poll.
Interesting thoughts but my guess would be that it is an illegal action. Especially if they didn't have a tag for that animal in the given season. Whether someone would use the term "poaching" or not ... it is at the very least unethical in my book. Sure the meat might go to waste but then again someone could come by to drag it out of the woods and legally claim it too.
Post by: wastickslinger on September 26, 2007, 01:30:23 PM
Post by: Ray on September 26, 2007, 01:50:18 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 26, 2007, 02:00:42 PM
the list of possible things to call this or the poacher or the hunter or the elk is endless.
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 02:07:02 PM
Post by: Curly on September 26, 2007, 02:14:10 PM
I would have called the poaching hotline and got the game warden out there ASAP once I discovered the bull with the head missing.
Post by: GoldTip on September 26, 2007, 03:01:26 PM
If it was good and he wasted it, he should be tarred and feathered and quite possibly drawn and quartered as well. If the meat had turned, then taking the head and horns, although illegal, probably seemed like the right thing to do, since it was already dead. But either way I would not refer to this guy as a poacher.
Now the question of lying to the guy(longtat) once you knew who's animal it was and you had his ARROW in posession. Now that is full on BS and the guy is lucky that LongTat did not take the law into his own hands right at that moment. I simply hope that there is a good end to this story, ie; I hope Longtat gets his horns back.
Now here's a question. Does Longtat tag the horns once he gets them back? :)
Post by: Machias on September 26, 2007, 03:12:53 PM
I hope he gets his horns back!
Post by: arrowflinger on September 26, 2007, 03:13:44 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 04:21:46 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 26, 2007, 04:30:16 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on September 26, 2007, 04:38:04 PM
Been one long half hour?
Post by: GoldTip on September 26, 2007, 04:42:18 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 26, 2007, 05:34:09 PM
The kid/guy that cut the head off is far from a poacher. He did not kill a game animal, during season or out of season. Bull was dead already. Now is the guy an ass??? Yup sure as heck is.
He was irresponsible for doing what he did, and was completely wrong. But he is hardly a poacher, more like a thief.
Hope you get your head back, To me it sounds like the head is more important to you than turning the kid in for dragging a game animal to an area where it would not be found to rot without a head.
I would be far more pissed that the animal was wasted because of this kid than to get a head back. You can always get an opportunity to shoot another bull, but that one you arrowed this year is a wasted game animal...
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 05:47:36 PM
Any one have this happen to them. I've heard of this a bunch in the clockum. I'll tell my other stoy later...right now dinner is being served.
Post by: billythekidrock on September 26, 2007, 05:57:27 PM
1. the game warden makes both parties split the meat
2. the game warden says the one that tagged it is the owner.
Luckily it has never happened to me.
Post by: Bridger on September 26, 2007, 06:12:00 PM
Post by: wrangler on September 26, 2007, 07:08:04 PM
Post by: Otto1 on September 26, 2007, 07:17:09 PM
While hunting in Utah with my dad (our very first year) My dad shot a nice 4 point muley, dropped it like a rock, it slid down the hill on the frost out of sight. We walk the 100 yards or so to get right there and a guy slams a shot into the deer and takes it... I have never forgot that! Sure wished I had those horns as my Dad never hunted again.
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 07:23:09 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on September 26, 2007, 07:30:32 PM
So why did the gamie want the rack? What was his reason and how did you talk him out of it?
BTW.. can't see the pic. By the path,
( http://c:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Mr%20BIG/My%20Documents/Hunting/my%)
it looks like you have it on your harddrive. You will need to upload to the net before we can see it.
Post by: Otto1 on September 26, 2007, 07:34:26 PM
Congrats...
So why did the gamie want the rack? What was his reason and how did you talk him out of it?
is the gamie going to pursue charges? as I believe they would have a case, unless the the kid had an archey tag and notched it, if so then it would be his rack.
Post by: wrangler on September 26, 2007, 07:35:26 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 26, 2007, 07:38:08 PM
Post by: huntingnut on September 26, 2007, 07:47:57 PM
Post by: arrowflinger on September 26, 2007, 07:51:03 PM
Sorry longtat, nothing against you and glad you got your horns. Waiting to see the picture.
Post by: Otto1 on September 26, 2007, 07:53:57 PM
Go after him for what? he found a dead elk and cut the horns off.
he cut the head off an elk and carried outa the woods during a hunting season and one would bet he did not have a tag notched and affixed... that sounds like it would be against the law
Post by: billythekidrock on September 26, 2007, 07:58:18 PM
Go after him for what? he found a dead elk and cut the horns off.
he cut the head off an elk and carried outa the woods during a hunting season and one would bet he did not have a tag notched and affixed... that sounds like it would be against the law
I think you are right.
But if he gave them back and the Gamie read him the riot act I would be ok with that since it wouldn't use up much of our $.
Post by: ICEMAN on September 26, 2007, 08:00:41 PM
Post by: Ray on September 26, 2007, 08:01:40 PM
he cut the head off an elk and carried outa the woods during a hunting season and one would bet he did not have a tag notched and affixed... that sounds like it would be against the law
Yep. My first response to this topic pretty much said the same thing. To me, it seems pretty obvious if the fellow didn't have an archery elk tag that it would be an easy bust. However I have no idea if he did in fact have a tag. Even so - if he is or was claiming the animal as his own with a bonafide archery tag then he should be cited for waste by leaving the carcass to rot. RCW 77.15.170 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.170)
Post by: ICEMAN on September 26, 2007, 08:06:20 PM
Post by: Ray on September 26, 2007, 08:09:02 PM
If they can prove I ran a stop sign based upon words; they can prove some jerk is wasting animals.
Post by: huntingnut on September 26, 2007, 08:25:19 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on September 26, 2007, 08:28:23 PM
I don't believe it would be hard to prove (sp. proving) in court. I think they should throw the book at jerks like this.
If they can prove I ran a stop sign based upon words; they can prove some jerk is wasting animals.
I agree! Esp if they can prove that he knew it was illegal. He had a tag and knew better. Make him notch his tag or fine his butt!
Post by: Antlershed on September 26, 2007, 08:31:03 PM
I keep going back and forth on what should be done to the kid. Yeah, he is a jerk for not giving you your horns back. Is it illegal to cut a rack off a dead rotting elk? Yes. How many others would have cut them off if found? I think quite a few without using their tag. Perhaps it is a different case since it is during the season vs something like a winter kill. If the meat was still good when the kid found it, then that opens up another set of issues. Irregardless, he should have given them back to you the first time, when you approached him and asked for them.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 26, 2007, 08:36:16 PM
I have broken rules and laws. And fortunatly for me i was young and dumb and not stupid enough to get caught, well there was this one time. And one time i did something stupid and got caught i served my restitution. I shot a forest sign when i was 16 and got caught... 24 hours community service and 100 dllar fine, that was 15 years ago, and i learned from that mistake.
Obviously this kid knew the rules. He should have learned from this mistake and what he learned was that it is o.k. to waste an animal...
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 26, 2007, 08:36:43 PM
Post by: huntingnut on September 26, 2007, 08:44:34 PM
Post by: bearhunter59 on September 26, 2007, 09:18:36 PM
On page 69 of this years game regs, I spot about 7 violations that punk could have been ticketed for....
Tagging and Transporting,
Section 2. Transporting wildlife - You must transport any big game animal with the proper tag attached.
Possession and Use of Wildlife
1. Transporting game or portions of meat taken by somebody else - If you transport or possess wildlife (or parts) killed by someone else, you must possess a written statement showing the name, address, license, permit or tag number, the number and kind of animal provided, the date killed, count, and area it was taken in, and the hunter's signature.
2. Waste of Wildlife - You may NOT allow game animals or game birds you have taken to recklessly be wasted.
4. Wildlife found dead - You may remove and dispose of wildlife found dead on your property or an adjoining public roadway, but you must first notify WDFW. Dead wildlife can only be removed for disposal, not for personal use or consumption.
5. Possession of Antlers - It is legal to possess naturally shed antlers of deer, elk, and moose.
6. Stolen wildlife - Lawfully-tagged wildlife is personal property. Theft of wildlife should be reported to local law enforcement.
Definitely enough there to get that punks hunting and fishing license revoked for a few years.
Post by: Bigshooter on September 26, 2007, 09:30:52 PM
And cut the head off.
Its not poaching, and if it was not tagged then it was not stealing. If I would of found it and had no idea how long it had been dead I would have cut the head off and threw it with the rest of my horns.
Post by: ICEMAN on September 26, 2007, 09:46:54 PM
Post by: Machias on September 26, 2007, 10:34:22 PM
Post by: boneaddict on September 27, 2007, 06:36:25 AM
Post by: boneaddict on September 27, 2007, 06:42:50 AM
Post by: pacyew on September 27, 2007, 08:26:22 AM
Post by: jackelope on September 27, 2007, 08:27:09 AM
this is shaping up to be a 5 pager...
the list of possible things to call this or the poacher or the hunter or the elk is endless.
8)
Post by: GoldTip on September 27, 2007, 08:33:45 AM
Post by: bearhunter59 on September 27, 2007, 10:50:59 AM
Whole things shows the clear lack of respect, morals and ethics that young people these days are not taught....
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on September 27, 2007, 11:30:36 AM
If I were in the same situation Longtat was I would have probably done the same thing. It all depends it is easy to say I'd have done this and I'd have done that. Ya can't realy say unless you were the person in the situation. If I felt like the kid learned his leson I'd have let him off. If he acted like it was all a big joke I'd have had him charged.
It sucks that the meat is now wasted. Sounds like to me that Longtat did about everything he could do to find the animal. Sometimes animals get away and their is realy nothing you can do about it. Other than keep looking for them.
Post by: jackelope on September 27, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
i kind of feel like some charges should have been filed against this kid, at least an official warning so he had something on his record if he gets dinged again for something, they will know he's a repeat offender. i don't feel like you should have had the option to decide wether or not to press charges on the kid. it's not like he assaulted you or something like that...he violated game laws, for which i don't rreally see how you should have control over that.
my .02
glad you got your horns back, BTW, and i'm glad to see you cut your tag for whatever thats worth.
Post by: wrangler on September 27, 2007, 06:11:46 PM
He didn't learn anything except he can get away with doing this kind of crap. The game warden should have cuffed him, hauled him off and confiscated any vehicle that he used to move/transport the head and animal. Then the little #$^$ would have learned a lesson. Then this whole episode would have had enough impact on him and his worthless friends that they wouldn't even think about touching a dead game animal that they know isn't theirs.
Whole things shows the clear lack of respect, morals and ethics that young people these days are not taught....
are you serious? you make it sound like the kid went in to longtats camp, held em all at gunpoint, ate all their food, stole the head and killed their dog. dude found a archery killed animal who knows how long after it was shot (which im sure most of us have found more than once) and cut the horns off. bfd dude? now everything else that went on after that is just immature bs that the dumb sob was prolly born with (bragging about it, lying, yata yata yata...), still doesn't make it right and i prolly woulda kicked the kids ass, but seriously.... it's a *censored*ty deal cause it happend to an honest dude but come back to earth, most of us would have taken the horns with out a second thought, illegal or not. btw kidnapping by the legal definition is "moving someone against their will up to 10 feet or beyond" (or something along those lines) should everyone that played football or tackled a buddy at some point in thier life be booked??? the law is not always black and white. chill out. oh and i hate the wdfd just as much as you bear, i have the 'barbs not pinched all the way' tickets to prove it....
Post by: Ray on September 27, 2007, 07:33:32 PM
Quote
most of us would have taken the horns with out a second thought
I have a hard time believing that most people would take the horns and then lie about it later when confronted. That alone proves someone's credibility is in the gutter and at that moment any ounce of respect I might have held for the human being would be instantly evaporated into thin air. There is no reason to lie about this sort of action as far as I can tell. "Yeah I took those horns." - seems like a simple thing to say for me. Unless of course someone had been up to something illegal or felt guilty about something they did. Still... it would not recover the meat if it was spoiled.
To be honest this topic was not about the elk but about it's horns more than anything else - read the topic subject.. Therefore I think it is a little misleading and would be more appropriately coined as - Someone stole the horns off the elk I shot and lost...
It's water under the bridge now...
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on September 27, 2007, 08:04:29 PM
And if you think anti hunters are not looking at this site you are in denial...
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on September 27, 2007, 08:21:44 PM
Post by: wrangler on September 27, 2007, 09:13:18 PM
most of us would have taken the horns without a second thought
I have a hard time believing that most people would take the horns and then lie about it later when confronted.
im not sure why you're attaching my quote to your post since i never said anything about lying about what happend, i would tell anyone strait up how i found them and then would give them back after some friendly jabs about not finding the animal they shot and drink a beer about it. read my post a little more carefully, i never condoned lying about anything.
Quote
Someone stole the horns off the elk I shot and lost...
sooooo id like to know at what point does taking the horns off of a dead (meat obviously spoiled, we're not talking about claiming a freshly shot animal here) animal make you thief? is it day 4, or day 400? although illegal, hardly makes someone a thief. i have a nice skull from a whitetail buck i found dead, it had been dead for years. it may have been killed by a hunter that couldn't find it, i don't know. am i thief? i think your logic is flawed a little. oh, and spare me, i already know i broke the law, it's not legal to take skulls im sure.... iv never really been that worried about it to check the rcw's.
Post by: Ray on September 27, 2007, 09:22:49 PM
Quote
im not sure why you're attaching my quote to your post since i never said anything about lying about what happend, i would tell anyone strait up how i found them and then would give them back after some friendly jabs about not finding the animal they shot and drink a beer about it. read my post a little more carefully, i never condoned lying about anything.
It's the whole point. There's no reason take something and then lie about it. Perhaps you had not read that part of the discussion .. but from your responses prior to this one can only conclude either you missed the point that he lied about it when confronted or that you did not care and might do the same. I did read that earlier and so that is the whole reason for picking that out of your response.
Quote
sooooo id like to know at what point does taking the horns off of a dead (meat obviously spoiled, we're not talking about claiming a freshly shot animal here) animal make you thief? is it day 4, or day 400? although illegal, hardly makes someone a thief. i have a nice skull from a whitetail buck i found dead, it had been dead for years. it may have been killed by a hunter that couldn't find it, i don't know. am i thief? i think your logic is flawed a little. oh, and spare me, i already know i broke the law, it's not legal to take skulls im sure.... iv never really been that worried about it to check the rcw's.
First - I never used the term thief. I did suggest that the subject of the topic was wrong. I didn't say that my casual suggestion was wholly accurate. It was just a gesture and nothing more... Otherwise I would have changed it... However the turn of events which is described in the context of this incident seems to indicate that someone is at least a liar and possibly more. Comparing carving horns or cutting the head off an animal full of meat to casual bone collecting from long dead animals is preposterous and clearly out of touch with reality. Who's logic is flawed here? Second - I think there is enough compelling evidence to suggest that someone is a snake; there is nothing wrong with that legally. There must have been a reason why the warden was threatening to bring charges though....
Post by: Ray on September 27, 2007, 09:39:19 PM