Post by: wheels on December 24, 2015, 09:38:03 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 24, 2015, 09:46:07 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 24, 2015, 09:46:21 AM
This one pops every season: https://kpr.craigslist.org/spo/5346665733.html
One might question why a photo of a bull is displayed in the ad, when the hunt season for master hunters is antlerless only in that area.
Post by: Bucks2Ducks on December 24, 2015, 09:47:56 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 24, 2015, 09:49:30 AM
250 sounds cheap. Are you allowed to sell them though?If it is truly a damage permit, yes. A landowner can also charge an access fee for any amount.
Post by: Woodchuck on December 24, 2015, 09:51:33 AM
Post by: wheels on December 24, 2015, 09:57:57 AM
Post by: dreamunelk on December 24, 2015, 10:07:57 AM
Post by: adamR on December 24, 2015, 10:12:11 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 24, 2015, 10:13:18 AM
He does it every year. He's not selling damage tags, he's selling access to his land for master hunters.That's what it appears to be. It's interesting that he has a picture of a bull in his ad. That should tell people something.
Post by: losdaddy7 on December 24, 2015, 10:34:39 AM
Post by: Big6bull on December 24, 2015, 01:10:25 PM
Post by: Dan-o on December 24, 2015, 01:32:11 PM
They raise cattle and he feeds them on his property..... He has to feed his cattle.
He charges an access fee to his property. The same thing many landowners do.
I've never done this - I've never paid to hunt private land. But, I'm not necessarily against it.
(If I could buy access via trespass fee to some good deer hunting land, I might??)
Post by: adamR on December 24, 2015, 01:48:09 PM
He does it every year. He's not selling damage tags, he's selling access to his land for master hunters.That's what it appears to be. It's interesting that he has a picture of a bull in his ad. That should tell people something.
He has had the same add out for months but a few months ago he was also offering up archery hunts, maybe that's where the spike picture is from?
Post by: bobcat on December 24, 2015, 01:52:43 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 24, 2015, 02:03:12 PM
I don't think saying "he baits them in" is quite accurate.
They raise cattle and he feeds them on his property..... He has to feed his cattle.
He charges an access fee to his property. The same thing many landowners do.
I've never done this - I've never paid to hunt private land. But, I'm not necessarily against it.
(If I could buy access via trespass fee to some good deer hunting land, I might??)
The issue/concern/problem is in order to get landowner permits, a landowner has to have filed a wildlife damage claim with the state. So if the guy is filing wildlife damage claims with the state and getting LO damage tags, then it's sort of messed up if he's actually baiting the elk. If he's truly feeding the cattle, and the elk are incidentally eating it rather than his cattle...then it sounds like he's got a legit concern. I don't have an issue with the guy charging access to his land.
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 24, 2015, 02:36:30 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 24, 2015, 03:23:07 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 24, 2015, 03:24:49 PM
He's not selling damage tags, he's selling access to his land for master hunters.This.
Post by: huntandjeep on December 24, 2015, 03:59:20 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 24, 2015, 04:00:30 PM
If you want, I can pm pictures of the damage these private landowners do to the state owned fences. Recently, one of them blocked off the wildlife gates to keep the elk in. From the information I have, the same person who charges for the hunts is the one doing the damage.Guy up in Naches used to pull the same stuff in an orchard. This was over a decade ago though.
I personally don't agree with the damage control permits. If your farming in elk country, fence your land. Elk shouldn't have to pay the price. Just my :twocents:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 24, 2015, 04:01:31 PM
There's alot of farmers around the valley that do this , also one up Chinook Pass and another towards HanfordThat Alphalpha field was planted for one reason :bash:
Post by: huntandjeep on December 24, 2015, 04:16:37 PM
Yeah I know its sad.There's alot of farmers around the valley that do this , also one up Chinook Pass and another towards HanfordThat Alphalpha field was planted for one reason :bash:
Post by: Bob33 on December 24, 2015, 04:33:56 PM
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Post by: jrebel on December 24, 2015, 04:34:56 PM
With that being said, I have no problem with a fee to access private land for hunting when using a general and or special draw tag.
Post by: emac on December 24, 2015, 04:37:01 PM
Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.I don't think that is the issue here. I think said person is damaging the elk fence so the elk can come on his property so he can charge an access fee. And also blocking the areas the elk can get back inside the fence so they stay on his property
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 24, 2015, 04:53:13 PM
Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 24, 2015, 04:59:05 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 24, 2015, 05:02:37 PM
I agree but it is legal, and you know how that goes...Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Post by: huntandjeep on December 24, 2015, 05:36:41 PM
I have a huge problem with landowners charging access to land they don't want the game on. They are essentially selling a resource that is not theirs. If they elk are damaging their land and they have complained.....thus being granted damage permits.....it should be illegal to charge an access fee.:yeah:
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on December 24, 2015, 06:00:10 PM
I agree but it is legal, and you know how that goes...Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Actually, it is not legal. Cutting a hole in a fence that you do not own is damaging property, either a private person (neighbor) or the state's property.
If it is your fence you are cutting up, then it would be legal...silly...but still legal.
Post by: bullkiller on December 24, 2015, 06:08:44 PM
I wouldn't make accusations on reports you have heard. I would have real facts or personally seen the damage being done before making accusations. I have spent plenty of time up there and seen people cutting holes into the fence just to gain access.
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 24, 2015, 06:24:03 PM
Naches sportsmen
I wouldn't make accusations on reports you have heard. I would have real facts or personally seen the damage being done before making accusations. I have spent plenty of time up there and seen people cutting holes into the fence just to gain access.
Happens every year this time of year and it is always in the same area that the fence and gates are messed with. He is mainly the guy in the spotlight as he is well known for his efforts of getting elk onto his land for master hunters. Master hunters were meant to get rid of elk on private land doing damage. This guy intentionally wants the elk on his land so master hunters will pay him an access fee. Seems ..... up, doesn't it?
If you intentionally want elk on your land, master hunters shouldn't be legally allowed to hunt it.
Post by: BAR C3 on December 24, 2015, 07:08:29 PM
:yeah: and I'm a land owner with cattle.Naches sportsmen
I wouldn't make accusations on reports you have heard. I would have real facts or personally seen the damage being done before making accusations. I have spent plenty of time up there and seen people cutting holes into the fence just to gain access.
Happens every year this time of year and it is always in the same area that the fence and gates are messed with. He is mainly the guy in the spotlight as he is well known for his efforts of getting elk onto his land for master hunters. Master hunters were meant to get rid of elk on private land doing damage. This guy intentionally wants the elk on his land so master hunters will pay him an access fee. Seems ..... up, doesn't it?
If you intentionally want elk on your land, master hunters shouldn't be legally allowed to hunt it.
Should be no Master Hunter tags for damage hunts. Like I have said before, offer them up for unsuccessful Veteran's, disabled hunters, and youth only. At no cost! Land owner don't like it, no hunt
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 24, 2015, 07:19:07 PM
Post by: Humptulips on December 24, 2015, 07:53:07 PM
I agree but it is legal, and you know how that goes...Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Bob,
I think you are missing the point. The damage permits are issued because someone is having problems with in this case elk. The point being WDFW is trying to help the guy run the elk off to reduce damage. Should the tags be issued if the landowner is making an effort to lure the elk onto their land or even defeating measures to keep the elk off?
If he wants to lure the elk on his property and charge for access he could do it during general season but this seems like an abuse of the damage control hunts.
Post by: rackattack on December 24, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
I agree but it is legal, and you know how that goes...Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Bob,
I think you are missing the point. The damage permits are issued because someone is having problems with in this case elk. The point being WDFW is trying to help the guy run the elk off to reduce damage. Should the tags be issued if the landowner is making an effort to lure the elk onto their land or even defeating measures to keep the elk off?
If he wants to lure the elk on his property and charge for access he could do it during general season but this seems like an abuse of the damage control hunts.
:yeah: Doesn't seem right if he is indeed inviting them onto his property so he can sell access fees.
Post by: billythekidrock on December 24, 2015, 08:51:03 PM
Here was the latest picture I saw.
Wow
Post by: Bob33 on December 24, 2015, 09:21:47 PM
This is a general season for Master Hunters. No damage permit is required. I could be wrong but I really doubt he got 32 damage permits last year.I agree but it is legal, and you know how that goes...Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Bob,
I think you are missing the point. The damage permits are issued because someone is having problems with in this case elk. The point being WDFW is trying to help the guy run the elk off to reduce damage. Should the tags be issued if the landowner is making an effort to lure the elk onto their land or even defeating measures to keep the elk off?
If he wants to lure the elk on his property and charge for access he could do it during general season but this seems like an abuse of the damage control hunts.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 24, 2015, 09:31:11 PM
Post by: Dan-o on December 24, 2015, 09:57:56 PM
"Just cause it's legal...... :chuckle:
Hey, I see what you're trying to do there...... No fair using a single standard!!!
Post by: Humptulips on December 24, 2015, 10:18:05 PM
This is a general season for Master Hunters. No damage permit is required. I could be wrong but I really doubt he got 32 damage permits last year.I agree but it is legal, and you know how that goes...Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Bob,
I think you are missing the point. The damage permits are issued because someone is having problems with in this case elk. The point being WDFW is trying to help the guy run the elk off to reduce damage. Should the tags be issued if the landowner is making an effort to lure the elk onto their land or even defeating measures to keep the elk off?
If he wants to lure the elk on his property and charge for access he could do it during general season but this seems like an abuse of the damage control hunts.
The OP talks about damage tags. I didn't see anywhere a word was mentioned about this being during a general season. The entire thread is talking about damage tags. If you have more information maybe that would clear it up.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 24, 2015, 10:19:50 PM
"Just cause it's legal...... :chuckle:Hey you stay out of this red man! We will get to the Indian bashing soon enough! Wait your turn >:( (<Are you seeing how serious that face is!?!! That is an aggressive grimace )
:chuckle:
Post by: Dan-o on December 24, 2015, 10:23:56 PM
This is a general season for Master Hunters. No damage permit is required. I could be wrong but I really doubt he got 32 damage permits last year.I agree but it is legal, and you know how that goes...Using bait to lure elk onto your property is completely legal.Cutting a hole in an elk fence, then setting bait out so elk will come through the hole, just so you can get damage tags to sell is not what I would call ethical baiting practices. Shouldn't be spun any other way :tup:
Charging an access fee to have someone come on your property to shoot the baited animal is completely legal.
It would appear that some have missed the message: if you don't like baiting, don't do it. Taking away the right to bait is just the first step.
It sounds like we have a few anti-hunters who want to strip away our hunting rights, one by one. ;)
Bob,
I think you are missing the point. The damage permits are issued because someone is having problems with in this case elk. The point being WDFW is trying to help the guy run the elk off to reduce damage. Should the tags be issued if the landowner is making an effort to lure the elk onto their land or even defeating measures to keep the elk off?
If he wants to lure the elk on his property and charge for access he could do it during general season but this seems like an abuse of the damage control hunts.
The OP talks about damage tags. I didn't see anywhere a word was mentioned about this being during a general season. The entire thread is talking about damage tags. If you have more information maybe that would clear it up.
Bob33 is right.
There is a season open over there for Master Hunters. No additional "damage tag" required.
The OP might not have stated it quite correctly....
Post by: JDHasty on December 24, 2015, 10:44:59 PM
Full disclosure: I am a Master Hunter. Never needed to consider paying an access fee though, where I have been called out to the property owner was serious about needing relief. It also sounds to me like this guy is deliberately bringing elk onto his property, if that is the case then why should the WDFW work to get them off his property?
Post by: wheels on December 24, 2015, 10:51:33 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 24, 2015, 11:04:23 PM
contacted the guy its basically a lease for season 250 bucksOut of curiosity wheels, are you a master hunter?
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 24, 2015, 11:26:11 PM
"Just cause it's legal...... :chuckle:Hey you stay out of this red man! We will get to the Indian bashing soon enough! Wait your turn >:( (<Are you seeing how serious that face is!?!! That is an aggressive grimace )
:chuckle:
Hey, no distractions! Let's get back to tribal bashing cuz this ain't a serious thread... >:(
:chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 24, 2015, 11:30:41 PM
contacted the guy its basically a lease for season 250 bucksOut of curiosity wheels, are you a master hunter?
I'm a "Master Hunter" can somebody please give me a ride this area. :chuckle:
Post by: wheels on December 25, 2015, 12:49:42 AM
Post by: wheels on December 25, 2015, 12:59:48 AM
Post by: gasman on December 25, 2015, 01:59:18 PM
The elk come and go and no guarantee you will be successful.
He has been on this forum before, defending his position and admitting that he leaves feed for the elk to cross on his property for hunters.
Heard that there is so much snow on his place right now, that the elk have move ed on.
Post by: jdb on December 25, 2015, 02:06:12 PM
Post by: M_ray on December 25, 2015, 02:53:11 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 25, 2015, 03:08:56 PM
I don't agree with a guy claiming damage and then baiting them or luring them to stay around so he can profit. I know plenty of ranchers with damage problems and none of them bait them in order to keep them around ... they all want them gone. Personally I think the game Dept should pull the damage tags if a landowner baits in order to profit, it's not the way the program was designed to work.He doesn't get damage tags.
Post by: M_ray on December 25, 2015, 03:23:47 PM
I don't agree with a guy claiming damage and then baiting them or luring them to stay around so he can profit. I know plenty of ranchers with damage problems and none of them bait them in order to keep them around ... they all want them gone. Personally I think the game Dept should pull the damage tags if a landowner baits in order to profit, it's not the way the program was designed to work.He doesn't get damage tags.
Ok I must have got the wrong impression, the title is "Damage Elk hunts" and usually Damage elk tags are awarded by the state to help with damage issues :dunno: if this is not the case then maybe the title should be changed as it sounds like you are saying the landowner is just selling a trespass fee :tup:
Post by: Bob33 on December 25, 2015, 03:52:29 PM
i was misinformed not damage tag its 250 for access fee for master hunters and me and my dad are one
Post by: Landowner on December 25, 2015, 04:36:27 PM
Never heard of anyone who has a growing crop trying to get elk to damage crops. Would be nice to know the real story.
Post by: Bob33 on December 25, 2015, 05:05:17 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 25, 2015, 06:53:59 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 25, 2015, 07:43:25 PM
Not sure how that is logical?? Regardless of the circumstances.......to draw a natural resource to your property so you can charge access, not ok in my opinion. If the resource is there without bait.....I have no problem with it. Just another access fee for private. Also wouldn't have a problem if the bait was used to make them easier to hunt.....but it is solely there to bring them on his property. Reality is his land has no value to hunters unless he baits them there. I am not an anti nor am I an anti baiting hunter.....but this is just wrong. There is a reason the elk fence exist."if you don't like baiting, don't do it." ;)
Post by: Dan-o on December 25, 2015, 07:52:43 PM
I kind of doubt this guy baits elk......... I know he's feeding his cattle.
I could be wrong, but until someone has proof, I'm going to go with innocent until proven guilty...... I don't like how easily we convict people on the internet.
Post by: Bob33 on December 25, 2015, 07:57:27 PM
Baiting is completely legal. What's the issue?
I kind of doubt this guy baits elk......... I know he's feeding his cattle.
Post by: jrebel on December 25, 2015, 08:00:42 PM
Not sure how that is logical?? Regardless of the circumstances.......to draw a natural resource to your property so you can charge access, not ok in my opinion. If the resource is there without bait.....I have no problem with it. Just another access fee for private. Also wouldn't have a problem if the bait was used to make them easier to hunt.....but it is solely there to bring them on his property. Reality is his land has no value to hunters unless he baits them there. I am not an anti nor am I an anti baiting hunter.....but this is just wrong. There is a reason the elk fence exist."if you don't like baiting, don't do it." ;)
Has nothing to do with bating.....has everthing to do with baiting elk through a high fence to profit off wild game. Should be illegal. ;)
Post by: jrebel on December 25, 2015, 08:07:02 PM
If anybody knows who actually cut holes in the fence or blocks gates, they should turn the culprits in.
I kind of doubt this guy baits elk......... I know he's feeding his cattle.
I could be wrong, but until someone has proof, I'm going to go with innocent until proven guilty...... I don't like how easily we convict people on the internet.
I think a lot of people are condeming the action based on info that is provided. If indeed there is truth to the fact that: 1. an elk fence exist and 2. it is being damaged so a landowner can bait and draw wild animals onto his property for profit..... then it is wrong.
Fix the elk fence and the problem of elk on this guys property is fixed. At this point his property has no value to hunters and this conversation never happened. It reasons that if he is charging access he has a vested interest in the fence not being fixed. Thus it would reason....at best he is not fixing it and at worst he is the one causeing the damage. Just my opinion.
Post by: Dan-o on December 25, 2015, 08:16:51 PM
Baiting is completely legal. What's the issue?
I kind of doubt this guy baits elk......... I know he's feeding his cattle.
He's raising cattle, and he has to feed through the winter. I simply believe he wants his cattle to eat the hay (not the elk), because any other cattleman I know who feeds his cattle through the winter intends to feed his cattle..... not elk. (I could be wrong in this specific case.)
IF he is intentionally baiting elk in, then it really does go against the spirit of what the Master Hunter program is intended for. The intent is to drive elk off agricultural property where damage is occurring...... Not to bait them back into the damage control area.
But - as you've said - it is legal.
I just wouldn't feel good about paying to shoot an elk that was lured into a damage control area. Just my personal thing. I wouldn't condemn someone who did it legally.
Post by: bobcat on December 25, 2015, 08:50:35 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 25, 2015, 09:01:23 PM
The problem with this, as others have said, is if the landowner is actually damaging the state owned elk fence in a way that allows elk to get through to the private property. The elk fence is there to keep elk off that property. The baiting and the charging hunters for access wouldn't be happening if there were no elk on this landowner's property.
:yeah: :yeah:
Post by: wheels on December 26, 2015, 03:48:10 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 26, 2015, 03:53:41 AM
Post by: Igor on December 26, 2015, 08:26:16 AM
Post by: fireweed on December 26, 2015, 09:04:34 AM
Its like this: Your house is infested with mice. You complain to the WDFW. They give you a FREE CAT. Then you turn around and charge the cat for the privilege of killing your mice.
Hancock timber does this with spring bear tags, which are only for bear damage. WDFW should leverage damage associated tags and seasons for better access. Its a no-brainer.
Post by: adamR on December 26, 2015, 09:42:15 AM
Once again, these are not damage tags! He's charging an access fee. There's nothing illegal about what he's doing.
If he actually is the one cutting the fence that's not cool. Something tells me there is no proof of this or it would have been taken care of by now. If there is no proof then he's doing nothing wrong.
Post by: jrebel on December 26, 2015, 10:26:05 AM
I love that people read a title and comment on a thread without reading any part of the actual thread.
Once again, these are not damage tags! He's charging an access fee. There's nothing illegal about what he's doing.
If he actually is the one cutting the fence that's not cool. Something tells me there is no proof of this or it would have been taken care of by now. If there is no proof then he's doing nothing wrong.
You don't think that ethically he should fix the fence, or find out how it is getting cut and put a stop to it? Instead he decides to profit off of it?? This seems fishy to me. One would reason if he stands to profit he may be the one causing the problem. He for sure is not willing to fix "the problem", instead he profits!!! :bash: :bash: For those that don't find something wrong with this, your moral compass is off by a few degrees in my book.
How many people defending this practice are master hunters vs not. Would be interesting to see these numbers if people want to be honest about it.
I'm not a master hunter, but if I were....I would take part is such a hunt LEGAL OR NOT. Lots of legal activities that are not ethical, again this is my opinion. :tup:
Post by: adamR on December 26, 2015, 03:29:04 PM
I am a master hunter. I would not pay his access fee to hunt his land, that's not why I became a master hunter. I also, at the moment, don't think he's doing anything wrong.
Post by: Dan-o on December 26, 2015, 06:41:56 PM
I've never been on his land.
I've never paid a trespass fee to hunt private property - but I'm not against it.
WHOEVER cut the fence or blocked the re-entry gate is wrong. Period.
I imagine that has to be illegal.
BUT...... I won't condemn a man on the internet because people spread rumors that he's done this.
* If you know, tun him in.
* If you don't know, it's just rumor mongering.
AND..... If anyone is intentionally baiting elk onto private property to sell access for damage control hunts, I guess that's still legal, but it seems against the spirit of the Master Hunter program to me.
Post by: dye7barrel on December 26, 2015, 06:53:21 PM
Post by: JDHasty on December 26, 2015, 09:58:30 PM
These conflict specialist dollars are our dollars he is profiting off of and that affects all of us. Master Hunter or not, if you buy license and tags you have a vested interest in how those dollars are spent.
Now, I'm a Master Hunter and the Conflict Specialists I work with take their job of resolving the conflict with the least resort to lethal removal as possible seriously. The goal is to resolve the conflict with the least impact on the General Season tag holders and the least impact on long term sustainability of the herd. Love these guys, they have your interest at heart.
I will be right up front and tell you that once the General Season opens our conflict specialist will go the extra mile to make sure that all hunters, including his Master Hunters (full disclosure, Master Hunters know him and know how to contact him to get tips), have the best info available and he will work with EVERY legal tag holder to do the job with the GREATEST amount of lethal removal.
They know the property owners and will introduce you with a phone call or a personal visit if you are somewhat human, are polite and ask nicely (my cousin's criteria when allowing access to people who want to shoot a whitetail doe on his ranch that is right outside The Bob).
These are lower level positions in the Dept and don't get much respect from lots of sides, but the individuals I am acquainted with are consummate professionals who really put in long hours to prosecute the job they are tasked with in a professional manner.
They have told me that they would like us to hit them in their bedding locations (lethal and non-lethal efforts) and drive the rest of the herd completely out of the area, instead of just waiting until they are in the fields and hit them there and drive them back into their beds... then they pop back up the next evening. Some Master Hunters are capable of that and others are not and that brings out accusations of favoritism when lethal removal is on the table, against a person who is working his tail off to resolve wildlife conflict and is just selecting from the most likely volunteers to get the job done.
Yes, some Master Hunters get more callouts when lethal removal is on the table, but there is a job to do and the job is to drive the elk out of their bedding location that is close to the depredation areas. If a Master Hunter shoots an elk in the process that is a byproduct of jumping them out of their beds. Not all Master Hunters have proven themselves willing or capable and that is just the way it is. The purpose of the hunt is to resolve the conflict and some Master Hunters have a record of being able perform certain tasks where others don't have that record.
Being a Master Hunter is a voluntary service you offer and joining in on elk hazing callouts where there is no shooting is where you demonstrate to the conflict specialist that you are willing to go into the crap in order to get on the elk and then to stay on them until they are driven out of the area.
When the conflict specialist is looking to call people out who are going to go into the crap they are bedding in, and lethal removal is on the table... there will be many volunteers. Too many and he needs people who have shown that they will do what it takes to "close the deal." Make it known that you are someone who has the experience and tenacity to "close the deal" by jumping them out of their bed and your freezer just might also be filled in August or September.
Not every one has shown they are capable of that, AND this is also great practice for the General Season if you don't get that callout for a Master hunt where lethal removal is on the table. So you have lost nothing and have gained a lot of respect as a person who turns out and puts in an honest effort. There is always next year and conflict specialists want to reward those who turn out.
But I diverge, I only went off on that tangent in order that you who are concerned about having to pay that access fee will maybe not care so much next year.
If what is suspected is going on here, that is not kosher. That is working to the detriment of a program that was set up to protect this man's agricultural endeavors or his landscape from depredation. It would be easy enough to just remove that property from the limits of the hunt.
As far as access fee, is his property the limit of the hunt or does it go beyond onto others properties who allow access without charging a fee? If he is on the up and up, you have the option of not enjoying spending time on his acreage and still have a great day in the field hunting elk... Pay his fee if you are not a personal friend and want to take advantage of hunting there. What if it is pay or no opportunity available. Pay it, I don't work for free and maintaining a property that others have wonderful opportunities to spend days enjoying themselves hunting on is work.
If you can't fit it into your family budget all in one lump, see if he will allow an elk quarter instead or allow you to pay it off over five paychecks. See if you can work something out that works for both of you and does not leave him holding the bag for your time enjoying property that he has an obligation for the upkeep on.
Post by: Bob33 on December 27, 2015, 08:22:18 AM
I don't know the guy.+1
I've never been on his land.
I've never paid a trespass fee to hunt private property - but I'm not against it.
WHOEVER cut the fence or blocked the re-entry gate is wrong. Period.
I imagine that has to be illegal.
BUT...... I won't condemn a man on the internet because people spread rumors that he's done this.
* If you know, tun him in.
* If you don't know, it's just rumor mongering.
AND..... If anyone is intentionally baiting elk onto private property to sell access for damage control hunts, I guess that's still legal, but it seems against the spirit of the Master Hunter program to me.
Post by: boneaddict on December 27, 2015, 08:34:31 AM
Post by: benhuntin on December 27, 2015, 08:44:56 AM
I am beginning to,think the whole system is corrupt.Beginning??
Post by: kirkl on December 27, 2015, 08:57:45 AM
Post by: TheHunt on December 27, 2015, 09:21:53 AM
Post by: fireweed on December 27, 2015, 10:48:44 AM
I love that people read a title and comment on a thread without reading any part of the actual thread.
Once again, these are not damage tags! He's charging an access fee. There's nothing illegal about what he's doing.
If he actually is the one cutting the fence that's not cool. Something tells me there is no proof of this or it would have been taken care of by now. If there is no proof then he's doing nothing wrong.
Lots of hunts that are designed to keep the populations in check are not technically "damage" but are designed for reducing conflict and damage. Spring bear. Late cow. Extra deer.