Post by: steveallenis on December 25, 2015, 05:13:59 PM
Post by: Birdguy on December 26, 2015, 02:11:27 PM
Post by: jasnt on December 26, 2015, 02:22:21 PM
Post by: bearpaw on December 26, 2015, 02:27:24 PM
Winter wheat is pretty awesome, but oats will grow anywhere and probably is the easiest thing you can plant and maintain.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 26, 2015, 03:01:28 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 26, 2015, 03:17:29 PM
Post by: cem3434 on December 26, 2015, 03:20:48 PM
Post by: Eastside stone thrower on December 27, 2015, 11:54:05 AM
Post by: bearpaw on December 27, 2015, 01:03:49 PM
Agree that lime and fertilizer helps almost all soil, especially in forested areas that generally tend to be acidic. But I know from past experience that clovers and/or grains (especially oats) can do OK without needing to add lime or fertilizer if a person doesn't want to get that involved. Many clovers you can simply scatter a lot of seed in a moist area in the late fall or early spring and at least some of it will grow to some extent. Remember, if the area dries out in the summer the clover will dry up too! If the area is pretty wet or dry some clovers will do better than others. White clovers are longer lived but a bit tougher to establish. A good plan is to start with red clover and white clovers mixed, the red comes in thick to start but dies out leaving the white clover in following years. Most good seed companies will tell you which clovers to plant in your area depending on the factors involved. They will also tell you which clovers deer like best. The simplest method without getting into a lot of research is to buy a deer clover mix from one of the seed companies for your area and conditions.
More Info Online
Basic Clover Info: http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/big-buck-zone/2013/04/planting-clover-deer
Some Crop Choices: http://deerbuilder.com/DB/features/foodplots/top10/Top10FoodPlotCropsNorth.pdf
If You Really Want To Learn: http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=45
Decide how involved you want to get? (only go to that last link if you have a lot of time to invest, the info is addictive) :chuckle:
Post by: bowtechian on April 25, 2016, 02:14:49 PM
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Post by: Special T on April 25, 2016, 02:22:39 PM
Curious if anybody has went this route for blacktail?In several of the past discussions and observations clover does help BT during the spring when fawns and antler growth make food important. It does not appear to help much in whacking mature bucks. It does help the herd but doesnt make them that much easier to hunt 2c
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Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 25, 2016, 02:22:54 PM
Post by: CP on April 25, 2016, 02:42:34 PM
I tried and failed at a food plot last year:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,174419.0.html
Post by: bearpaw on April 28, 2016, 08:16:29 AM
Tagging -
I tried and failed at a food plot last year:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,174419.0.html
I think you were too late last year, clover needs to be planted early if you are relying on natural moisture. There's a chance some of your seed from last year sprouted this spring, have you checked? You need to get your soil checked if you haven't, like others mentioned, that could also be the problem. This spring came early, I planted weeks ago and everything is already growing good. Good luck.
Post by: CP on April 28, 2016, 08:33:24 AM
Tagging -
I tried and failed at a food plot last year:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,174419.0.html
I think you were too late last year, clover needs to be planted early if you are relying on natural moisture. There's a chance some of your seed from last year sprouted this spring, have you checked? You need to get your soil checked if you haven't, like others mentioned, that could also be the problem. This spring came early, I planted weeks ago and everything is already growing good. Good luck.
I haven't been there in a couple weeks and it was still covered in snow then. I'll be checking on it this weekend.
Post by: bearpaw on April 28, 2016, 09:30:55 AM
Plant as soon as the snow melts, first work the soil with an atv dragging a piece of harrow or atv disc, spread oat seed with a handheld seed spreader, drag the harrow again to work in oat seed 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep, next spread the clover seed and drag with something flat like a 4 foot piece of plywood or use a yard roller if you have one. If you can't get an atv with a piece of harrow to the food plot you could use a stiff garden rake or garden weasel to work the soil and to work in the oat seed to insure seed germination. After you work in the oat seed then sprinkle clover seed and rake lightly over the clover seed or drag a small piece of plywood over it to cause the seed to have good soil contact, don't work your clover seed deeper than 1/8th inch or it may not grow. Your area is small so it won't cost much to buy a few pounds of seed and try again. If your plot grows it will likely get wiped out by wildlife if it isn't big enough, you may need to clear additional area next year. Good Luck!
Post by: jasnt on April 28, 2016, 12:36:44 PM
I my self have irrigation and a "watering hole" I also chose to go with whitetail clover from whitetail instatute. Higher protein than red or white clover more heat tolerant and a little more drought tolerant.
If irrigation is not an option I've had great luck with whitetail instatutes "Extreme" it is a blend of plants that all seem to have a different peek attraction time allow for some to get grazed while others grow. In the fall they dug up all the tall time tubars Then some of it came back the next year.
I know that seems like a commercial for whitetail instatute but after doing this for years and trying many other brands I will only use these products.
Post by: Rainier10 on May 12, 2016, 11:50:36 AM
I would suggest planting oat seed and clover. Oats are the easiest crop to grow and will probably grow even if your clover don't. Best option is to plant a mix of both white and red clover if you're not sure what will work. White clovers live longer but need more moisture. Red clovers are shorter lived but don't need as much moisture. I suggest 2 pounds of each clover (4 pounds clover) planted over 50 pounds of oat seed for 1/3 to 1/2 acre of ground. Oat seed is only about $20 for 50 pounds, clover will run $3 to $10 per pound, so you can do 1/3 to 1/2 acre planting for well under $100. The oats will grow one year, the next year your clover comes back in. Every other year you can add a little red clover seed if desired or just let the white clover take over, the white clover should last 4 or more years, the clovers both may reseed them self if not over grazed by wildlife.Where do you get oat seed? I tried getting some for my place after the fire but could only get winter wheat.
Plant as soon as the snow melts, first work the soil with an atv dragging a piece of harrow or atv disc, spread oat seed with a handheld seed spreader, drag the harrow again to work in oat seed 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep, next spread the clover seed and drag with something flat like a 4 foot piece of plywood or use a yard roller if you have one. If you can't get an atv with a piece of harrow to the food plot you could use a stiff garden rake or garden weasel to work the soil and to work in the oat seed to insure seed germination. After you work in the oat seed then sprinkle clover seed and rake lightly over the clover seed or drag a small piece of plywood over it to cause the seed to have good soil contact, don't work your clover seed deeper than 1/8th inch or it may not grow. Your area is small so it won't cost much to buy a few pounds of seed and try again. If your plot grows it will likely get wiped out by wildlife if it isn't big enough, you may need to clear additional area next year. Good Luck!
Post by: PolarBear on May 12, 2016, 12:07:07 PM
:yeah:Curious if anybody has went this route for blacktail?In several of the past discussions and observations clover does help BT during the spring when fawns and antler growth make food important. It does not appear to help much in whacking mature bucks. It does help the herd but doesnt make them that much easier to hunt 2c
Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk
When I replanted my lower pasture I seeded with 3 types of clover as a food plot for deer and for a little treat for cows with new calves. Some of it grew to about 2 1/2- 3 feet tall and the deer LOVED it! The does would leave their fawns hidden in it while they grazed on oat grass and clover. The fawns loved eating it as well even though the first few times it gave them the squirts. Bucks would hit it at night but once the taller stuff was gone, so were they. Clover won't do you much good during hunting season but it will make the deer healthier.
Post by: KFhunter on May 12, 2016, 09:05:03 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on May 12, 2016, 09:15:29 PM
Post by: bearpaw on May 13, 2016, 06:55:25 AM
Oats and sweet beets or radish, the oats will draw them in early and after frost or two the beets will sweeten up and they'll paw for them even in the snow. You want beets that will grow above the surface and there's lot's of food plot derived beets for that. The oats will keep the beet tops from being sunburned.
Purple top turnips are good too and easy to grow.
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2019, 04:55:12 PM
Anyone use daikon radish? Do the deer like them?
Post by: idaho guy on April 13, 2019, 05:53:12 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 13, 2019, 06:47:12 PM
Tag going to try one for first time. I think I will at least do oats had some growing in the gravel by my barn just from spillage from the horse grain! I think even I can grow oats :chuckle:
What kind of oats are you guys growing?
Post by: idaho guy on April 13, 2019, 09:34:48 PM
Tag going to try one for first time. I think I will at least do oats had some growing in the gravel by my barn just from spillage from the horse grain! I think even I can grow oats :chuckle:
What kind of oats are you guys growing?
I’m not sure I can get some in bulk down by Worley Idaho i never asked what kind? Didn’t know there was different kinds :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on April 14, 2019, 10:41:32 PM
Think I paid about 200/ton seed oat, which is suppose to be cleaner and not full of weed seed.
Post by: bearpaw on April 14, 2019, 10:48:50 PM
Post by: T-ROY on June 05, 2019, 08:14:24 PM
Post by: jasnt on June 05, 2019, 08:41:40 PM
i will closing a small piece of land later this week in the deer park area i hope, with 1300 feet of power lines running threw it, and everything else is pretty heavily timbered. there is pretty good grass growing on the power lines already. i want to plant something but feel its to late this year for spring planting? I was going to mow it and triple 16 the heck out of it. from my experience, if you disturber the ground too much you end up with some horrible weed problems, thistles and dandelions seem like there are there just waiting for the chance to take over. can you plant oats in the fall? i have a 4 wheeler and a 6 foot chain harrow to work it with, is there any thing you can plant in the the early fall/late summer that will come before hunting season with out watermy plot is in deer park area. Been going 6 years now. Your dealing with whitetail and they don’t like grass. You want legumes and your not too late. We probably got one more frost coming this week if not one before July. Get that area killed off and then get it cleared best you can. Your probably low in nitrogen and a touch acidic but not bad. Maybe hit it with a touch of limestone and get it seeded with a good white tail mix, I like clover, and once it’s up a few inches hit it with a 30/15/15 or something close to that. It may need a little water starting in July.
Post by: jrebel on June 05, 2019, 08:44:47 PM
i will closing a small piece of land later this week in the deer park area i hope, with 1300 feet of power lines running threw it, and everything else is pretty heavily timbered. there is pretty good grass growing on the power lines already. i want to plant something but feel its to late this year for spring planting? I was going to mow it and triple 16 the heck out of it. from my experience, if you disturber the ground too much you end up with some horrible weed problems, thistles and dandelions seem like there are there just waiting for the chance to take over. can you plant oats in the fall? i have a 4 wheeler and a 6 foot chain harrow to work it with, is there any thing you can plant in the the early fall/late summer that will come before hunting season with out water
Yes you can plant oats in the fall.....well at least from what I have read. I will be trying some this fall. I'm going to try some of the oats and chicory from the site below.
http://buckforage.com/pages/Products/Buck-Forage-Oats
Post by: KFhunter on June 05, 2019, 09:12:09 PM
just before we get the september rains so they have a chance to grow a bit before frost
Post by: cougforester on June 05, 2019, 09:14:29 PM
Post by: nwwanderer on June 06, 2019, 06:54:42 AM
Here is a picture from a week ago, peas and wheat emerged first, sweet clover will take a little more time. I used sweet clover because it is a biennial. Tiny this season so it should escape most grazing this spring and be huge next year. Great nesting cover. This site will get hit hard this summer, probably not much seed production for winter.
Post by: T-ROY on June 06, 2019, 07:16:06 AM
Always consider moisture, timing and competition. Dry, will not work. Timing off no chance. Competition in place it fails. Many combinations work great, clovers, as many varieties as you can find, is great, moisture and competition critical. Forage type grains, trit, oats, barley usually are best for plots, more cover. Check local seed suppliers first, out of area deer mixes are way over priced and often wrong varieties.
Here is a picture from a week ago, peas and wheat emerged first, sweet clover will take a little more time. I used sweet clover because it is a biennial. Tiny this season so it should escape most grazing this spring and be huge next year. Great nesting cover. This site will get hit hard this summer, probably not much seed production for winter.
did you plant that this spring? , did you spray and then broadcast seed over the dead vegetation?
Post by: T-ROY on June 06, 2019, 08:19:16 AM
Post by: Wsucoug on June 06, 2019, 09:53:51 AM
If you are bent on planting this season, your only real option is winter rye *aka cereal rye, rye grain. You can get it at landmark seed in airway heights. Winter rye is a prolific germinator, and grows at lower temps than ANY other seeds. This is important because at lot of time there is no moisture till its cold. I would say your not really going to feed the deer in this instance; however, you may be able to influence their travel patters to get some action.
As for planting methods. I would kill all weeds and keep them dead with some roundup. When the forecast calls for 70% or better rain for multiple days in a row, broadcast the seed, and drag it in with an atv. If you have a drill even better. The key is to get some seed to soil contact. YOU have to have the moisture coming, and it best to plant while its raining on you, so you know its actually going to rain. YOu can plant pretty much Mid Aug to end of September with this method.
If you want to move to a spring plot next year there are different mixes and timing for that and i can advise on that when you are ready.
Post by: Wsucoug on June 06, 2019, 10:19:05 AM
moisture is going to be a big issue no water, is there some thing i can plant that will grow in the spring basically die off in the summer from heat and come back in the fall kinda like my yard. are you guy working your ground like an ag field or just skuffing up the top couple of inches seeding and packing it
That plant is clover. Its pretty much the M.O. of the species.
Post by: nwwanderer on June 06, 2019, 03:01:29 PM
Post by: T-ROY on June 07, 2019, 06:37:18 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on June 08, 2019, 01:51:56 PM
Stick to the winter varieties if planting that late. Winter wheat...winter triticale...winter rye. I would also add some AMS fertilizer if you can.
Peas are an ultimate attraction for deer.....but I have found they can be tough to germinate if you can't get them buried an inch deep or have lots of moisture. Just an fyi from experience.
Post by: T-ROY on June 08, 2019, 02:35:42 PM
Post by: T-ROY on June 08, 2019, 02:39:25 PM
Post by: nwwanderer on June 08, 2019, 02:55:20 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on June 10, 2019, 01:17:37 PM
I wouldn't mix all three. I plant only rye and triticale. Rye is the easiest to germinate and grows the best in the harshest conditions. It is the "safe bet". If you can't grow rye you are not going to be growing anything else. Wheat is prolly the most preferred and easiest to find at the stores, but it is much harder to get right than rye. Triticle is a cross between the two plants, which is suppose to bring the toughness of rye with the desirability of wheat. I plant both depending on what i can get my hands on.
Buck forage oats where created to over winter in the more southern states. They put on a lot of tonnage down there and the extra frost tolerance works great for them. I have heard it said that BFO will get you two extra weeks in the northern states on average. So take that for what its worth since they cost 2x much. IF you have to plant late because of moisture issue, oats will be a bust because of frost.
If you have a half an acre you can do the following:
4 lbs of red clover - welter seed online or landmark seed in airway heights
3/4 - 1 of a pound of Forb Feast chicory- welter seed
25 lbs of rye/triticale - local, welter seed or landmark seed
30 -60 lbs of oats - local, welter seed or landmark seed in airway heights
If very little moisture is coming or it comes late, just plant the red clover and rye. If you got some serious rain coming around the end of August plant them all. Don't forget fertilizer.
Post by: Wsucoug on June 10, 2019, 01:25:10 PM
Always consider moisture, timing and competition. Dry, will not work. Timing off no chance. Competition in place it fails. Many combinations work great, clovers, as many varieties as you can find, is great, moisture and competition critical. Forage type grains, trit, oats, barley usually are best for plots, more cover. Check local seed suppliers first, out of area deer mixes are way over priced and often wrong varieties.
Here is a picture from a week ago, peas and wheat emerged first, sweet clover will take a little more time. I used sweet clover because it is a biennial. Tiny this season so it should escape most grazing this spring and be huge next year. Great nesting cover. This site will get hit hard this summer, probably not much seed production for winter.
Also this. Gotta keep competition in check. There is to little moisture to go around.
Post by: jrebel on June 10, 2019, 01:57:15 PM
Jrebel
Post by: headshot5 on June 10, 2019, 02:29:17 PM
Post by: T-ROY on June 10, 2019, 02:53:23 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on June 10, 2019, 09:45:34 PM
Depends on the weeds. Crossbow for broad leaf, and roundup for grasses/thistles.
I would say crossbow for thistles and other tough to control broadleafs. Round up aka glyphosate will kill most items when mixed correctly; however, it will only top kill thistle.
Post by: Wsucoug on June 10, 2019, 10:52:30 PM
For weed control....do you guys spot spray with roundup? I get to see my food plot for the first time in a month tomorrow. I have been told it is growing well but does have weeds in it. I plan on taking round up to spot spray being I have so many varieties in a relatively small area. I will take pictures and report back.
Jrebel
If i am having issues with certain weeds I usually plant my mixes so i can take advantage of particular herbicides that will deal with my weed issue. Spot spraying is definitely an option, but I wouldn't just rely on roundup as you maybe wasting your time depending on the weeds you want to control. What was the seed mixture? What equipment do you have available to you. Pics will def. help.
Also you have to be very careful with some of the herbicides as they have planting restrictions. For example you need to wait a minimum of 14 days and preferably 30 days when you use 2,4 D before you can plant. Triclopyr, which is in crossbow, does have some restrictions, but i can't recall off the top of my head what they are.
Post by: Wsucoug on June 10, 2019, 11:01:00 PM
Wsucoug. Do you do this for living? I will try exactly what you suggested and get back to you guys this fall. Thanks for all the help from everyone. Good info
No, but i have spent lots and lots of time trying to get it right for our region. Almost everything you read out there as far as mixes and planting dates go; just don't work for our area. Plotting is fun, but it can be hard to do because our moisture patterns and our hunting seasons don't align well.
Best thing to do is to gather your seed up and then hit this thread hard with weather forecasts as August rolls around. Also another tip....always keep and extra bag of winter rye in the garage. When/if you have a plot failure that extra bag can be a saving grace.
Post by: T-ROY on June 11, 2019, 07:22:10 AM
Post by: Wsucoug on June 11, 2019, 08:43:51 AM
Once you have a few failed plots you will start to take any advantage you can get with your crop selection.
The following year you can disk it in but there is other options. The red clover and chicory will be in there cruising along feeding the deer. Do you have access to a mower/brush hog?
Post by: T-ROY on June 11, 2019, 09:49:13 AM
Post by: nwwanderer on June 11, 2019, 12:53:24 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on June 11, 2019, 01:00:24 PM
In the spring your fall plot is basically set with the red clover and chicory being already to go. The only thing that is missing is more cereal rye as it will mature about the end of June. YOU can do a few things:
1. No till drill that extra bag of rye into the soil in Late May just before a good rain. Then either terminate the current stand of rye with clethodim or wait for it to mature at the end of June and just lay it over with a drag or your atv wheels. Planting at this date ensures that you get germination when moisture is present. You can also terminate like this:
https://practicalfarmers.org/2015/05/rolling-cereal-rye-tips-for-success-guest-blog-by-dana-jokela/
2. You can let the rye mature and then mow it in the middle of summer when everything is dormant. Since rye is a prolific germinator, it will reseed itself when the moisture returns. The only draw back to this is that if the moisture does not return, then nothing is gonna happen. I did something similar to this last year and
the rye didn't germinate till October and didn't have much time to put on tonnage.
I would lean for some type of method of option 1. Also If you go option 1 make sure to store your extra bag of rye in a cool dry place (NOT A COLD! place) as this will prevent the seed from vernalization.
Post by: Wsucoug on June 11, 2019, 01:09:01 PM
I like to take the approach of trying not to disturb the soil. This conserves soil moisture and nutrients and also prevents weed seeds from getting exposed and germinating. However, when first starting out, conventional tillage is pretty much a must to get things going unless you have a no till drill.
Post by: bearpaw on June 11, 2019, 01:29:46 PM
For weed control....do you guys spot spray with roundup? I get to see my food plot for the first time in a month tomorrow. I have been told it is growing well but does have weeds in it. I plan on taking round up to spot spray being I have so many varieties in a relatively small area. I will take pictures and report back.
Jrebel
Roundup will kill almost everything.
If you have grasses/grains and want to kill everything else use 24d. If you have some legumes mixed in the plot use 24db (similar to 24d), if used correctly the legumes will survive.
If you have a clover/legume plot there is herbicide to kill other broadleaf plants or there is herbicide to kill the grasses out.
Note: There are generic brands of herbicide for sale in places like North 40 or Tractor Supply that work just as well as the name brands and cost less.
This article by the QDMA will tell you in simple language what to use: https://www.qdma.com/5-herbicides-every-deer-steward-know/
Post by: KFhunter on June 11, 2019, 04:14:43 PM
I just took a quote on a $4000 sprayer, that will be my high end cadillac sprayer. Ag Spray
21' booms with the rugged boom suspension (no single pole booms dangling off chains bouncing around everywhere)
2 agitators
boomless nozzles, fold up the booms and go boomless sprayers (got some brushy areas to spray where booms would suck)
silver series pump (roundup ready)
nice gun w 22' hose for fruit trees
150 gallon tank
dripless nozzles with diaphragm
03 nozzles 3/10 gallon @ 40 psi easy to switch out nozzles too
Post by: jasnt on June 11, 2019, 04:56:38 PM
I've been doing it without a sprayer for many years, it's time I had a sprayer :(:drool:
I just took a quote on a $4000 sprayer, that will be my high end cadillac sprayer. Ag Spray
21' booms with the rugged boom suspension (no single pole booms dangling off chains bouncing around everywhere)
2 agitators
boomless nozzles, fold up the booms and go boomless sprayers (got some brushy areas to spray where booms would suck)
silver series pump (roundup ready)
nice gun w 22' hose for fruit trees
150 gallon tank
dripless nozzles with diaphragm
03 nozzles 3/10 gallon @ 40 psi easy to switch out nozzles too
Post by: bearpaw on June 11, 2019, 05:46:24 PM
We have some mixed clover plots that have done pretty good with minimal maintenance. We sprayed 24d before we started and again after the first planting of oats or rye was growing good, then we seeded clover the second spring. It has seemed to work best if we overseed with clover lightly every year, you can do that late fall or early spring, we've seeded one of them 3 years in a row and this year the clover is super thick, that helps keep the weeds from taking over too. I've tried about a dozen different varieties of clover, it seems like a mix with 2/3 Durana white clover and 1/3 medium red seems to come in heavy and really provides a lot of forage if you have lots of deer or elk hitting your plot. Some of the other clovers we planted it seemed the deer did not like as well or they didn't grow as well. A few times I tried establishing clover by simply over seeding old pasture or forest openings but it didn't seem to come in very well without some tillage of some sort, obviously tillage lets the seed make soil contact to germinate better.
This is a small plot of oats and clover together, a first time planting this spring with both at the same time, no fertilizer and no lime was used, this spot is doing ok without either, it was getting wildlife traffic in the spring, not so much right now with everything green everywhere. I'm behind on spraying for weeds, (look close in the photo, that's not all clover and oats) I just ordered more 24-db to spray this and a couple other similar plots. I'm attempting to establish clover with the oats so that next spring all I do is overseed with clover seed and don't have to till it at all. This would save a year in establishing the clover stand from the way we were doing it in the past using 24d on the oats and planting clover the second year. I will spray with 24db, the clover should be fine and hopefully I get most of the weeds killed too. I'm trying to get these clover plots established faster with the least amount of mechanized tillage and maintenance, it will be interesting to see how this works out.
Post by: T-ROY on June 12, 2019, 07:37:09 AM
Post by: bearpaw on June 12, 2019, 08:19:19 AM
I'll see what the plot looks like in the fall or early spring, originally after seeing how dense the sod was I had figured I might be discing this plot again next spring but it came in better than expected, if I think it's needed I might pull a spring tooth over it before adding more clover seed, hopefully I can just add more seed and it will keep coming in thicker with clover. Because it is growing better than expected and I don't think I'll have to disc or plow again I wished I would have added some alfalfa into the seed mix. Because of the 24-db spray I'll use it wouldn't do any good to add chickory because the spray will kill chickory.
If the grass tries to come back in too thick I could spray clethodim to kill out the grass. I'm hoping I don't have to do that but we'll see.
Post by: T-ROY on June 12, 2019, 11:06:22 AM
Post by: bearpaw on June 12, 2019, 11:15:50 AM
yes i would be nice to see more pictures in sept and oct. is this plot south facing?
Mostly westerly, I imagine it will dry up in July until fall rains green up the clover again. There is the option of overseeding with a winter grain to get some good late fall attraction. If I over seeded with winter rye or wheat and then mowed the oats that would probably help the winter grain germinate better, but I've been told it should germinate as soon as there is good rain even without mowing. (I've tilled in the fall for winter grain before, this over seeding method would be a new thing to try.)
Post by: Wsucoug on August 07, 2019, 12:53:37 PM
https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=48.5439&lon=-117.9015#.XUsqBOhKhPY
Longer term forecast has cooler temperatures coming, which will help prevent sprouts from drying out after germination.
https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/index.php
Regardless, if the rain does not come, then you definitely do not want to be planting. You need to be looking for a minimum of a quarter inch of rain, which hardly ever comes around this time of year.
Additionally it always feels like a gamble with the weather in Aug.
Post by: Henrydog on August 07, 2019, 01:00:32 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on August 07, 2019, 01:23:16 PM
I actually did this last Fall. Overseeded winter rye in the first photo. And then rolled the stocks down on top of the seed. Second photo is during late buck. Last photo is the rye filling into the chicory in the late spring. This method really keeps the weeds at Bay and also provides good early spring tonnage.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/d9d1a186211a3c50c0e4ad17623cd7fc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/a539984749ca6cf6b8139e06fa8522c3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/10f9803d340f554e263aaef3759d323c.jpg)yes i would be nice to see more pictures in sept and oct. is this plot south facing?
Mostly westerly, I imagine it will dry up in July until fall rains green up the clover again. There is the option of overseeding with a winter grain to get some good late fall attraction. If I over seeded with winter rye or wheat and then mowed the oats that would probably help the winter grain germinate better, but I've been told it should germinate as soon as there is good rain even without mowing. (I've tilled in the fall for winter grain before, this over seeding method would be a new thing to try.)
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Post by: Wsucoug on August 08, 2019, 03:28:31 PM
If your not sure what to plant on such short notice, I would order up two 50# bags of awnless triticale and 10 pounds of red clover per acre and call it good.
Post by: nwwanderer on August 11, 2019, 08:09:14 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 11, 2019, 09:20:35 AM
Post by: T-ROY on August 16, 2019, 09:12:00 AM
my plan is to drag the heck out of it to get it smooth so i can mow it in the future if needed, and then try that over seed, lay down the spray as needed method. i bet last weeks rain may make for some great archery season plots.
Post by: T-ROY on August 16, 2019, 01:48:33 PM
Post by: T-ROY on August 16, 2019, 01:55:22 PM
I actually did this last Fall. Overseeded winter rye in the first photo. And then rolled the stocks down on top of the seed. Second photo is during late buck. Last photo is the rye filling into the chicory in the late spring. This method really keeps the weeds at Bay and also provides good early spring tonnage.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/d9d1a186211a3c50c0e4ad17623cd7fc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/a539984749ca6cf6b8139e06fa8522c3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/10f9803d340f554e263aaef3759d323c.jpg)yes i would be nice to see more pictures in sept and oct. is this plot south facing?
Mostly westerly, I imagine it will dry up in July until fall rains green up the clover again. There is the option of overseeding with a winter grain to get some good late fall attraction. If I over seeded with winter rye or wheat and then mowed the oats that would probably help the winter grain germinate better, but I've been told it should germinate as soon as there is good rain even without mowing. (I've tilled in the fall for winter grain before, this over seeding method would be a new thing to try.)
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boy that looks nice beautiful piece of property to boot. would mowing be better than just rolling it down and after the over seeding?
Post by: nwwanderer on August 22, 2019, 09:01:24 AM
Post by: T-ROY on February 01, 2020, 10:25:51 AM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 01, 2020, 12:11:09 PM
Isnt it way to early for rye and triticale ? seems like it would be tall and stemy by winter
Sorry I didn't see this last fall. Usually we don't get to pick the planting date. Rain is sooooo important to getting any plot started that you have to plant when it's in the forecast... period.
It's better to have stemmy food plot than bare dirt.
Post by: Wsucoug on February 01, 2020, 12:17:24 PM
I actually did this last Fall. Overseeded winter rye in the first photo. And then rolled the stocks down on top of the seed. Second photo is during late buck. Last photo is the rye filling into the chicory in the late spring. This method really keeps the weeds at Bay and also provides good early spring tonnage.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/d9d1a186211a3c50c0e4ad17623cd7fc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/a539984749ca6cf6b8139e06fa8522c3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190807/10f9803d340f554e263aaef3759d323c.jpg)yes i would be nice to see more pictures in sept and oct. is this plot south facing?
Mostly westerly, I imagine it will dry up in July until fall rains green up the clover again. There is the option of overseeding with a winter grain to get some good late fall attraction. If I over seeded with winter rye or wheat and then mowed the oats that would probably help the winter grain germinate better, but I've been told it should germinate as soon as there is good rain even without mowing. (I've tilled in the fall for winter grain before, this over seeding method would be a new thing to try.)
Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
boy that looks nice beautiful piece of property to boot. would mowing be better than just rolling it down and after the over seeding?
It's easier to get even disturbution of the stocks when you roll it down. Mowing can lead to the stocks clumping and other areas being bare. Both methods work.
Also mowing is gonna work better if you have serious tonnage.
Post by: avidnwoutdoorsman on February 01, 2020, 01:20:21 PM
https://www.droptineseed.com/regenerative-wildlife-agriculture
I want to do a little work on some property near Lake Roosevelt, still figuring out how or when I want to start.
Post by: buckfvr on February 01, 2020, 01:49:58 PM
Mowing your field areas will promote regrowth of the grasses and draw in deer. High grasses offer valuable cover especially during fawning/calving. I see lots of deer where there is unattended alfalfa and mix of wild grasses/field grass, wild roses, choke cherry, and elderberry. Down where you are there are huge areas of worked fields with lots of deer that move off as fall approaches. I would look to keep a more natural enviroment , cutting areas maybe twice each season while leaving others all natural, and planting in some alfalfa in the areas to be cut. That way you get a few years between planting.
Expect a serious learning curve
Post by: Wsucoug on February 01, 2020, 04:24:22 PM
What do you guys think of some of these blends? Too "East Coast"? Been following a lot of the regenerative agriculture/food plot management and this guy has some good podcast and videos on it. Not to mention 5 different kinds of blends to through down. Spring, Summer, Fall + Perennial and Pollinator Blend.
https://www.droptineseed.com/regenerative-wildlife-agriculture
I want to do a little work on some property near Lake Roosevelt, still figuring out how or when I want to start.
I would stay away from any mixes that were not developed specifically for the West. There is no double cropping as there isn't enough moisture to go around.
If you are irrigated then that's totally different, and we can go down that road if that is what you have.
What kind of equipment do you have? Have you ever grown anything? How big is your area?
Post by: T-ROY on February 01, 2020, 04:44:44 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 01, 2020, 04:52:21 PM
first year results of my food plot, on laborday weekend i disked it untill my four wheeler wouldn't pull the disk any more and then tried an atv drag harrow, that did work at all just plugged up with loose sod almost immediately. it only ended up being about a 1/2 acre or just under. i broadcast-ed 50 pound of triticale on the 1/2 acre and drover back and forth over it with my four wheeler to try and pack down the loose dirt. got a good rain a few days later. it came up in the bottom of the atv tracks pertty good, looks like 1/2 acre ag field with 12 inch spacing. looks pretty good but that is not enough feed, between the hand full of does and the tukeys and probably pretty poor soil it never got more that 3 or 4 inches tall. wish i would have put out a wire cage to see how much it actually grew with out grazing. very fun experiment, but have to do better next year, just built a black corrugated culvert cultipacker, hoping a can get the same results but with a 5 inch row spacing from the cultipacker that sound double the amount of feed in theory? or best case it will come in like a yard. i was thinking of frost seeding some sort of clover blend, annual and perennial mix and fertilizing hear pretty soon and then run over it it with the cultipacker to set the seed before the triticale starts to take off. when should a guy frost seed and fertilize?? or frost seed and then fertalize a mount later? is february to early? by the way thanks for all help from all you guys. o yeah planted around a 100 apple seeds in seed pods and about 25 of them have germinated so far. those are getting planted some time this spring also. if 2 or 3 make it ill be happy
I would still have planted during those August rains. That amount of rain at that time would have gotten things going much better. Cultipacking helps alot, but a good rain would have gotten everything going, not just the atv packed seed.
Also you should have thrown in 6 pounds of red clover in with the fall planting. Fall planted clover can come in really good the following spring, which has tons of soil benefits and given you a spring food plot without hardly any extra work.
I would go ahead and get the red clover down as soon as you see dirt. It's a hard seed and will germinate when the time is right. What type of fertilizer do you have access to? A high nitrogen fertilizer will usually just promote weed growth, especially if the plot is pretty thin. Also there is high potential for spring run off with your fertilizer if you put it down now. I would probably wait to fertilize until the next time the plot is worked up or the next time you apply herbicide.
IF your triticale looks like it might fill in this spring but looks a little stunted, you can add some triple 16 to help promote growth. The thinking here is this will help feed the triticale which will increase tonnage which in turn increase the green manure for the next crop.
Did you take any pictures?
Post by: T-ROY on February 01, 2020, 05:38:07 PM
Post by: T-ROY on February 01, 2020, 05:55:16 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 01, 2020, 06:10:24 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 01, 2020, 06:18:26 PM
i don' t think it looked to bad for a month of growing, think if will fill in this spring?
When the triticale heads out in the spring it will look like a full plot. It will look fairly impressive to a first time plotter at this point.
Can't say if the clover will come in or not. In my experience if the clover did not get going in the fall, a weed will likely fill in and take its place in the spring. Frost seeding is kinda hard because this weed usually has a head start on the clover, and your desired plant(clover) just can't catch up.
Either way you will learn something. You can also frost seed half and leave the other half and learn two things this spring.
Post by: Jhughes32 on February 17, 2020, 07:06:38 PM
Post by: nwwanderer on February 21, 2020, 08:46:27 AM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 21, 2020, 10:38:58 AM
Any of you guys doing this for black tail or just white tail
I have not, but the same principles apply. Sometimes you don't actually get to grow the most lucrative deer plot because soil moisture and planting timings won't allow it.
Don't know if you have any experience planting stuff, but if you just want to give something a try, I would plant cheap oats at about 100 lbs an acre and some red clover at 10 lbs an acre. Maybe add some winter triticale, depending what you can get locally. Throw in some fertilizer and see what happens. Oats should last longer on the westside because I am assuming they have a later frost.
Post by: bearpaw on February 21, 2020, 01:43:48 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 21, 2020, 01:48:46 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 09:30:03 AM
Clover is good too, it works good for me to keep adding more clover seed each spring, some clover dies out each winter, if you keep adding seed it gets good and thick. If you don't have irrigation summer is really hard on clover, but it might do better on the wetside.
Clover is hard to beat as an attractant for deer; however it does tend to dry up in the middle of summer. Make sure you add some red clover to the mix, as red clover has a deeper tap root and can go down and get water at deeper levels of the soil. It also can stand summer heat better than white, and will take longer to dry up.
The one draw back to to clover is that unless you have lots of acreage, the tonnage tends to be done by the end of October on the eastside. This can make for a downer plot come late buck.
On the west side, with milder summer temperatures, some extra fall moisture, and a later frost date; it could be a good ticket. I have just never done it over there.
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2020, 11:21:59 AM
Clover is good too, it works good for me to keep adding more clover seed each spring, some clover dies out each winter, if you keep adding seed it gets good and thick. If you don't have irrigation summer is really hard on clover, but it might do better on the wetside.
Clover is hard to beat as an attractant for deer; however it does tend to dry up in the middle of summer. Make sure you add some red clover to the mix, as red clover has a deeper tap root and can go down and get water at deeper levels of the soil. It also can stand summer heat better than white, and will take longer to dry up.
The one draw back to to clover is that unless you have lots of acreage, the tonnage tends to be done by the end of October on the eastside. This can make for a downer plot come late buck.
On the west side, with milder summer temperatures, some extra fall moisture, and a later frost date; it could be a good ticket. I have just never done it over there.
Completely agree, in fact I think the clover loses attractiveness in Sept in my area. Through the summer I try to water some of it to keep it green and when the forest dries up it is a real attractant, but I don't see much use after Sept. That could be because the deer have other options they like better. If all I had was clover maybe that would still be good until the snow flies, I don't know.
I've had clover and alfalfa side by side and it appeared that they preferred the clover, but there are variables, maybe a different variety of alfalfa would have been more attractive, I don't know for sure.
We've tried about 8 varieties of red and white clovers, with several growing side by side, we think the Durana clover is the most attractive, it seems to get the most grazing. It costs more for the seed, but I think its worth it considering the attractiveness and longevity, it supposed to last about 5 years, but we'll still probably overseed it to make sure we keep a dense stand. It really gets grazed hard.
I've had some good expereince with winter ceral rye in the past. I had a few small plots that I planted oats in the spring last year, in August I tilled half the plots under and planted winter cereal rye , the rye was a good attraction in November. I'll see how well the rye does this spring, if its doing a good job I'll leave it grow through summer and till it under in August again and plant new rye. I might try overseeding half the rye lightly with clover this spring just to increase attractiveness, then compare which half was most effective, with or without clover overseeding.
I'll probably still plant some oats anyway this spring, it seems you can never go wrong planting oats! The deer and turkey like it early and the turkeys will be after the seeds when it heads out in the summer. By the time mid August gets here there are almost no seeds left on my oats, the turkeys love them.
I have a few acres of sanfoin we planted two years ago too. In the past I've not had good luck getting sanfoin going but I think I didn't have enough and the deer over grazed and killed it. This time it's a larger plot. Not sure about the sanfoin yet, we have alfalfa and oats at the same property and I can't see much difference in use yet. I'm intrigued by sanfoin because if it seems like a good attractant the stands are supposed to last for many years.
This food plotting is addictive, I have a blast playing around with it.
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 11:51:33 AM
Sainfoin is very similar to alfalfa in that it takes some time to get established. Both have deep tap roots. It is equally, drought and heat tolerant (very heat tolerant). The biggest plus of sainfoin over alfalfa is that it doesn't get stemmy and un-palatable once it starts to mature. Also when everything has started to turn in mid-summer, sainfoin shines compared to the other legumes. Doesn't dry up and deer love it. Alfalfa usually won’t dry up either but it gets stemmy, and the deer put it pretty low on the preference list.
Now for the negative. Sainfoin is not very browse tolerant. It's considered a single cut hay in most applications. This is because it just doesn't bounce back after being consistently grazed. This can lead to weed issues, as lack of regrowth really allows for weeds to "fill in" the plot. So if you are in an heavily grazed area or already have lots of weeds, I'd suggest red clover, or even alfalfa. Sainfoin will most likely disappoint if this is the case.
The niche for sainfoin is that it is a big draw for deer especially when everything else is dry, but this is also its downfall. If you have good moisture I would stick with clovers. If you do plant, make sure your soil is well drained and in good shape. Also make sure you get the newest variety "Delaney Sainfoin" as it’s supposed to be more of a double cut variety, but I have not planted that type personally.
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2020, 12:00:16 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 12:03:30 PM
What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.
This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time.
Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.
I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2020, 12:08:17 PM
Instead of spring planted oats, you can try the following. Wait till after the last cold spell (Mid May) and plant WINTER Rye. IF the winter rye seed had never been exposed to the cold it will not set a seed head. Seeds/plants need to go through vernalization (google it) in order to set seed heads.
What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.
This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time.
Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.
I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.
I didn't realize that about May planted rye! You learn something new every day!
I've read that rye loses its attractiveness when it gets over 6 to 8 inches in length, it gets bitter, I forget the exact name for that but you probably know what I'm talking about. Do you know if you can overcome that problem by mowing it?
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 12:28:02 PM
Instead of spring planted oats, you can try the following. Wait till after the last cold spell (Mid May) and plant WINTER Rye. IF the winter rye seed had never been exposed to the cold it will not set a seed head. Seeds/plants need to go through vernalization (google it) in order to set seed heads.
What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.
This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time.
Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.
I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.
I didn't realize that about May planted rye! You learn something new every day!
I've read that rye loses its attractiveness when it gets over 6 to 8 inches in length, it gets bitter, I forget the exact name for that but you probably know what I'm talking about. Do you know if you can overcome that problem by mowing it?
I have read this many times. I have never been able to get rye to grow 6 to 8 inches tall if it was fall planted. Even if it was placed in a cage. There is just to little growing season between when our moisture comes and when it's too cold to produce that tonnage.
I planted this rye last july with irrigation. See attachment. Picture was taken in early october. The deer are still grazing it to the ground no matter what. This was a mixture, planted over one acre, and the deer keep it mowed.
For me its always been about tonnage. Hunting bare dirt in Mid-November doesn't cut it.
I will say there is no ag where I hunt, so the deer don't have any other options besides sticks and stems vs what I plant. It could be they may ignore a taller rye plot if there are some irrigated fields near by, but i have never seen this personally.
Post by: KFhunter on February 22, 2020, 12:37:47 PM
Its dry sandy soil.
I have so few deer anymore, we used to have roughly 2-3 deer per acre, but now its 15-20 acres per deer.
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 12:38:00 PM
Over the years this is my most bullet proof method that has given me green to hunt over come November (without irrigation).
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 12:43:42 PM
I need tonnage, I do haying for some cattle but also like to have deer on it. I plan to do spring oats then maybe instead of letting it sit I'll immediately plant winter rye this year.
Its dry sandy soil.
I have so few deer anymore, we used to have roughly 2-3 deer per acre, but now its 15-20 acres per deer.
I agree. My plots used to get ravaged.....not anymore. I have food leftover theses days. It's sad....
I think you may have a hard time getting enough of a root system established if you plant rye after oats. I just dont think there will be enough moisture in the soil to get it going before the heat sets in.
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2020, 12:49:53 PM
Instead of spring planted oats, you can try the following. Wait till after the last cold spell (Mid May) and plant WINTER Rye. IF the winter rye seed had never been exposed to the cold it will not set a seed head. Seeds/plants need to go through vernalization (google it) in order to set seed heads.
What this gets you is rye that is in the vegetative form in the fall during the hunting seasons. In this case, when fall moisture returns, your plants are already there; germinated, with an extensive roots system that can take advantage of the fall moisture.
This should allow for more green tonnage to be produced in a shorter amount of time, which is an issue when our moisture and frosts tend to come at the same time.
Now the rye is never as attractive as freshly planted and germinated fall grains, but this method can be used for tonnage vs attractiveness.
I have personally done this before, and my rye did make it through the summer heat/drought, and I did hunt over it. This was the summer of 2016, which was a hot one.
I didn't realize that about May planted rye! You learn something new every day!
I've read that rye loses its attractiveness when it gets over 6 to 8 inches in length, it gets bitter, I forget the exact name for that but you probably know what I'm talking about. Do you know if you can overcome that problem by mowing it?
I have read this many times. I have never been able to get rye to grow 6 to 8 inches tall if it was fall planted. Even if it was placed in a cage. There is just to little growing season between when our moisture comes and when it's too cold to produce that tonnage.
I planted this rye last july with irrigation. See attachment. Picture was taken in early october. The deer are still grazing it to the ground no matter what. This was a mixture, planted over one acre, and the deer keep it mowed.
For me its always been about tonnage. Hunting bare dirt in Mid-November doesn't cut it.
I will say there is no ag where I hunt, so the deer don't have any other options besides sticks and stems vs what I plant. It could be they may ignore a taller rye plot if there are some irrigated fields near by, but i have never seen this personally.
My fall planted rye never got very tall, I was more worried about the May planted rye exceeding 8 inches by fall, but in your photo it doesn't look that tall. Perhaps if my rye got close to 8" I could mow it and that would prevent it getting bitter. I'm assuming the rye will grow that tall because the oats do, maybe that won't even happen?
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 01:05:56 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 01:06:55 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 01:09:19 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2020, 01:38:20 PM
The winter rye tends to stop growing and dies back some. It doesn't just keep growing when May planted. It forms these clumps of both brown and green matter. You can see this in the pictures.
Since it doesn't head out when May planted does it live through winter and grow again the next spring?
Post by: KFhunter on February 22, 2020, 01:40:00 PM
Post by: Wsucoug on February 22, 2020, 01:46:01 PM
This is June the next year.
Post by: bearpaw on February 22, 2020, 08:28:31 PM