Food Plot Discussion

[jrebel]

i will closing a small piece of land later this week in the deer park area i hope, with 1300 feet of power lines running threw it, and everything else is pretty heavily timbered. there is pretty good grass growing on the power lines already. i want to plant something but feel its to late this year for spring planting? I was going to mow it and triple 16 the heck out of it. from my experience, if you disturber the ground too much you end up with some horrible weed problems, thistles and dandelions seem like there are there just waiting for the chance to take over. can you plant oats in the fall? i have a 4 wheeler and a 6 foot chain harrow to work it with, is there any thing you can plant in the the early fall/late summer  that will come before hunting season with out water

Yes you can plant oats in the fall.....well at least from what I have read.  I will be trying some this fall.    I'm going to try some of the oats and chicory from the site below. 

http://buckforage.com/pages/Products/Buck-Forage-Oats

[KFhunter]

look into fall planting of winter peas, to till in the spring.

just before we get the september rains so they have a chance to grow a bit before frost

[cougforester]

Tag

[nwwanderer]

Always consider moisture, timing and competition.  Dry, will not work.  Timing off no chance.  Competition in place it fails.  Many combinations work great, clovers, as many varieties as you can find, is great, moisture and competition critical.  Forage type grains, trit, oats, barley usually are best for plots, more cover.  Check local seed suppliers first, out of area deer mixes are way over priced and often wrong varieties.
Here is a picture from a week ago, peas and wheat emerged first, sweet clover will take a little more time.  I used sweet clover because it is a biennial.  Tiny this season so it should escape most grazing this spring and be huge next year.  Great nesting cover.  This site will get hit hard this summer, probably not much seed production for winter.

[T-ROY]

Always consider moisture, timing and competition.  Dry, will not work.  Timing off no chance.  Competition in place it fails.  Many combinations work great, clovers, as many varieties as you can find, is great, moisture and competition critical.  Forage type grains, trit, oats, barley usually are best for plots, more cover.  Check local seed suppliers first, out of area deer mixes are way over priced and often wrong varieties.
Here is a picture from a week ago, peas and wheat emerged first, sweet clover will take a little more time.  I used sweet clover because it is a biennial.  Tiny this season so it should escape most grazing this spring and be huge next year.  Great nesting cover.  This site will get hit hard this summer, probably not much seed production for winter.

did you plant that this spring? ,  did you spray and then  broadcast  seed over the dead vegetation?

[T-ROY]

moisture is going to be a big issue no water, is there some thing i can plant that will  grow in the spring basically die off in the summer from heat and come back in the fall kinda like my yard. are you guy working your ground like an ag field or just skuffing up the top couple of inches seeding and packing it

[Wsucoug]

Been doing food ploting in the same area for years now. I would say your not necessarily food plotting, but more conserving soil moisture. There is no summer rains in our area and fall rains are borderline the same as a fall snow storm. Getting tonnage is not an easy thing to do.

If you are bent on planting this season, your only real option is winter rye *aka cereal rye, rye grain. You can get it at landmark seed in airway heights. Winter rye is a prolific germinator, and grows at lower temps than ANY other seeds. This is important because at lot of time there is no moisture till its cold. I would say your not really going to feed the deer in this instance; however, you may be able to influence their travel patters to get some action.

As for planting methods. I would kill all weeds and keep them dead with some roundup. When the forecast calls for 70% or better rain for multiple days in a row, broadcast the seed, and drag it in with an atv. If you have a drill even better. The key is to get some seed to soil contact. YOU have to have the moisture coming, and it best to plant while its raining on you, so you know its actually going to rain. YOu can plant pretty much Mid Aug to end of September with this method.

If you want to move to a spring plot next year there are different mixes and timing for that and i can advise on that when you are ready.

[Wsucoug]

moisture is going to be a big issue no water, is there some thing i can plant that will  grow in the spring basically die off in the summer from heat and come back in the fall kinda like my yard. are you guy working your ground like an ag field or just skuffing up the top couple of inches seeding and packing it

That plant is clover. Its pretty much the M.O. of the species.

[nwwanderer]

Yes, planted this spring, a little late for my taste.  It was a patch of knapweed sprayed out with that nasty glyphosate and planted with a press drill, 7 inch spacing. An acre or so.

[T-ROY]

thanks for all the input, i think i will try some oats about labor day and maybe throw some winter peas in also just to see what happens  and then frost seed some clover and alfalfa in feburaury right after duck season closes. gonna be fun to experiment, and it not real big so it wont cost me an arm and leg. i think i might even get a soil test. the power lines run north and south so most of it will get some sun during the day.

[Wsucoug]

Alfalfa does not frost seed. Red clover does. Also oats die and turn yellow with the first hard Frost which can often come before September is out.

Stick to the winter varieties if planting that late. Winter wheat...winter triticale...winter rye. I would also add some AMS fertilizer if you can.

Peas are an ultimate attraction for deer.....but I have found they can be tough to germinate if you can't get them buried an inch deep or have lots of moisture. Just an fyi from experience.

[T-ROY]

Winter wheat...winter triticale...winter rye.  ill try planting all 3 should i mix the seed together or do seperate little plots. im only looking at planting  about 40 foot wide by about 600 feet long so roughly a .5 acres according to the calculator. the only whitetail buck i have killed in washington was on brand new fire break that they had made that summer. they had either planted it with something or it was coming back naturally not sure and wish i had pay more attention now. and the does where using the heck out of it in mid november. the temp was in the teens every morning. it was about 6 inches tall and very green that time of year and there was and hand full of does using it every night .. about the 3rd evening a buck fallowed one of the does in.  any idea what that may have been? im going to guess one of the 3 things you mentioned

[T-ROY]

jrebel    posted this a few day back, if you can believe what they say, it sounds very winter hardy http://buckforage.com/pages/Products/Buck-Forage-Oats

[nwwanderer]

Be flexible with your plans, what the weather brings should dictate what, when, where.  If all else fails simply fertilize a strip where you commonly see deer.  The increased growth and nutrition from the fertility is a big draw for the critters.  Mowing late, after july or so, especially if there is some moisture, brings on new growth where everything else is dried up or mature and of little feed value.  My first choice for fertilizer is always a blend of urea and CaSo4, gypsum.  The blend is not as pH lowering as AMS, (NH4)2So4, and the calcium part is a plus for soil health.

[Wsucoug]

NW Wander is right about the AMS being able to effect ph, which should defiantly be a concern with alfalfa. The crops i have been mentioning, probably wont be effected to much, and AMS is a slower release nitrogen than Urea which I put a higher value on. I have also have noticed most soils are deficient in sulfate in our area, hence two birds with one stone with AMS. If i was doing alfalfa, borated gypsum is the go to fertilizer in the area. If you want, you can do a soil test and know for sure. You can also go down to North 40 and get 3 bags of triple 16 and call it good.

I wouldn't mix all three. I plant only rye and triticale.  Rye is the easiest to germinate and grows the best in the harshest conditions. It is the "safe bet". If you can't grow rye you are not going to be growing anything else.  Wheat is prolly the most preferred and easiest to find at the stores, but it is much harder to get right than rye. Triticle is a cross between the two plants, which is suppose to bring the toughness of rye with the desirability of wheat. I plant both depending on what i can get my hands on.

Buck forage oats where created to over winter in the more southern states. They put on a lot of tonnage down there and the extra frost tolerance works great for them. I have heard it said that BFO will get you two extra weeks in the northern states on average. So take that for what its worth since they cost 2x much. IF you have to plant late because of moisture issue, oats will be a bust because of frost.

If you have a half an acre you can do the following:

4 lbs of red clover - welter seed online or landmark seed in airway heights
3/4 - 1 of a pound of Forb Feast chicory- welter seed
25 lbs of rye/triticale - local, welter seed or landmark seed
30 -60 lbs of oats - local, welter seed or landmark seed in airway heights

If very little moisture is coming or it comes late, just plant the red clover and rye. If you got some serious rain coming around the end of August plant them all. Don't forget fertilizer.