Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: EWUEAGLESHUNTER on January 02, 2016, 07:29:42 PM
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Ok so I found some birds. I asked the farmer for permission to hunt he said he rents/leases the hunting rights out. So it was a no go. But as I was driving by the location the birds were on I noticed a small piece of public hunting ground, posted with signs. So I did some research, thinking that maybe I could set up close enough to the birds I could pull them in onto the public section. According to the go hunt map, and mapsifter, the public property actually extends about 75 yards into the farmers stubble field. So my question is, can I technically hunt that 75 yards into the stubble field that both the go hunt map and mapsift show the state owning?
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If it truly does. The problem is, I would think, that you have to be able to find a hard point property marker to show the guy or cop who shows up. Growing up in farm country, I knew of a lot of farmers that each year would cut their field a foot or so wider, especially if there was no fence. This seems likely the case where it butts up to public land if no fence was there. :dunno:
I would get the aerial photos of the properties with the property lines showing from the county's website. This might be enough to get an annoyed farmer to leave you alone with the implied (or real) threat of contacting the public agency for a property line review. :twocents:
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It is most likely legal but the landowner will not agree. You might check with your local enforcement officer first to get his support.
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There's no way to know if you're legal or not, in that situation. Unless you actually find monuments showing where the property corners are located. You can take your chances but the landowner will probably have an issue with it. Best thing might be to talk to the landowner first and ask if he knows exactly where the line is.
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There are some pretty specific land markings where the property lines are drawn according to mapsifter and the go hunt map. The public property extends into the stubble 75 yards deep by 400 yards wide. So it is a pretty decent sized section.
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I would want to talk to enforcement about this first. If you just go ahead even if you have some maps with you showing the discrepancy enforcement still might write you a ticket. You may well win in court but that is going to be a big hassle.
If the land owner doesn't want you on the place I doubt he is just going to say go ahead. Maybe you got a different read from him and that is wrong. Is he agreeable to you hunting but legally restrained because of the lease? If you think that I would talk to him.
Giving it more thought I would talk to the landowner and at least tell him what is going on.
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Here we go again......
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Wait, are you telling me people still care about private property boundarys? Something smells fishy.... :chuckle:
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A lot of the county assessors map are screwed by several tens of feet from reality. You can tell this when you bring up an aerial photo overlay of the property lines and street, and see that they don't coincide with the location of the roads.
A common hiccup in GIS data.
So since your go hunt map is derived from these same sources, I would be hesitant to say the 21st century data is in fact correct.
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A lot of the county assessors map are screwed by several tens of feet from reality. You can tell this when you bring up an aerial photo overlay of the property lines and street, and see that they don't coincide with the location of the roads.
A common hiccup in GIS data.
So since your go hunt map is derived from these same sources, I would be hesitant to say the 21st century data is in fact correct.
You can usually get a pretty good idea of the offset by comparing the lines to roads and other fencelines.
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A lot of the county assessors map are screwed by several tens of feet from reality. You can tell this when you bring up an aerial photo overlay of the property lines and street, and see that they don't coincide with the location of the roads.
A common hiccup in GIS data.
So since your go hunt map is derived from these same sources, I would be hesitant to say the 21st century data is in fact correct.
You can usually get a pretty good idea of the offset by comparing the lines to roads and other fencelines.
Exactly
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I just spoke with a deputy sheriff, who then put me in touch with a game enforcement officer. After speaking with both of them, they both agreed that with the information provided online they would not ticket me unless I opened, cut or damaged privately made fences with clearly posted no trespassing signs. They also said that if there is an open gate, they would not ticket me as long as i stayed within the estimated boundary given to me by the maps posted online.
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In Wyoming the Hunt GPS maps are gospel. Their officers use the same maps. If they show you are on public land, they will consider you to be on public land.
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The problem is what we're talking about here is an actual line on the ground which the landowner apparently feels is the property line. It's no different than if someone built a fence on what they feel is their property line. In this case I would not trust the GIS map to have the line in the correct location.
Which state agency owns the state land? I assume it's either DNR or the WDFW. I would contact that agency and ask them about it. Both agencies have their own land surveyor and that may be who you might want to talk to. If the farmer is growing his wheat 75 yards onto state land, I'm sure they'd like to hear about it.
If he's completely on his own land, then the maps are wrong. Which is very common.
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I don't know.. :dunno:
In my opinion, I would stay on the clearly marked side, and talk to the landowner.
State your position, and see if he can put you in contact with the leaser/renter.
Having good relations with the guys in the next blind is more important than a few birds, and it is possible you can make a new contact.
Migratory birds (this is the waterfowl section) fly over and through the airspace, those guys with the lease might rather have you sit in their blind than shoot birds on the way to their set-up.
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The maps are the maps. Every enforcement agency uses them and I have no question about trusting them. They use gps and township/range data and are very accurate.
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Sure they are very accurate, but just not exact. They could be off 75 yards. Lines on an assessor map are often off quite a bit and the lines on GPS maps are based on county data so they could be off as well.
I think the sheriff and wdfw is potentially giving bad advice. They may say they won't write someone up for tresspassing but what if the landowner wants to push the issue? If there are fences that have been assumed to be on the property line, then it really doesn't matter where the county or your GPS says the line is.......the line is the fence.
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Ok so I found some birds. I asked the farmer for permission to hunt he said he rents/leases the hunting rights out. So it was a no go. But as I was driving by the location the birds were on I noticed a small piece of public hunting ground, posted with signs. So I did some research, thinking that maybe I could set up close enough to the birds I could pull them in onto the public section. According to the go hunt map, and mapsifter, the public property actually extends about 75 yards into the farmers stubble field. So my question is, can I technically hunt that 75 yards into the stubble field that both the go hunt map and mapsift show the state owning?
Since it says your eastern Washington. There is/was a professor from Eastern that has tied up tons of ground. One of the engineers at work's family owns a bunch south of long lake and talking to him he never hunt's it but it is leased.
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Sure they are very accurate, but just not exact. They could be off 75 yards. Lines on an assessor map are often off quite a bit and the lines on GPS maps are based on county data so they could be off as well.
I think the sheriff and wdfw is potentially giving bad advice. They may say they won't write someone up for tresspassing but what if the landowner wants to push the issue? If there are fences that have been assumed to be on the property line, then it really doesn't matter where the county or your GPS says the line is.......the line is the fence.
It doesn't matter where the fence is. Survey pins are the only thing official. The landowner can't "push the issue" simply based on the location of a fence.
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Sure they are very accurate, but just not exact. They could be off 75 yards. Lines on an assessor map are often off quite a bit and the lines on GPS maps are based on county data so they could be off as well.
I think the sheriff and wdfw is potentially giving bad advice. They may say they won't write someone up for tresspassing but what if the landowner wants to push the issue? If there are fences that have been assumed to be on the property line, then it really doesn't matter where the county or your GPS says the line is.......the line is the fence.
:yeah:
Definitely bad advice from the sheriff. For parcel lines to be off by 225 feet is not unusual at all. I've often seen lines off by as much as 400 to 500 feet. You won't see this as much in developed areas where everything has been surveyed and property corners monumented.
I would not hunt this spot with others hunting in close proximity who have paid the landowner for the right to hunt there. Unless you can be sure exactly where that property line is. It's obvious where the landowner thinks it is.
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Sure they are very accurate, but just not exact. They could be off 75 yards. Lines on an assessor map are often off quite a bit and the lines on GPS maps are based on county data so they could be off as well.
I think the sheriff and wdfw is potentially giving bad advice. They may say they won't write someone up for tresspassing but what if the landowner wants to push the issue? If there are fences that have been assumed to be on the property line, then it really doesn't matter where the county or your GPS says the line is.......the line is the fence.
It doesn't matter where the fence is. Survey pins are the only thing official. The landowner can't "push the issue" simply based on the location of a fence.
He can if he feels he's right on where the line is. You simply can't go by a hand held GPS to determine property lines exactly. A lot of times there are no survey pins. It would cost a lot of money to get a survey done in some cases to determine the lines.
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I guarantee you that farmer knows he's over the line if he actually is. Just don't expect him to admit it.
IMHO, have a man to man conversation with the farmer and tell him that you've discussed this all with LEO, and intend to hunt that piece of land. And that you'd appreciate him letting his lessee's know so as to avoid a problem in the field. :twocents:
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So, you have a gps accurate to within a few feet and he has a "feeling" about where the line is. That is why enforcement gave him the advice they did. It is public land and he has every right to hunt it.
Personally, I'm tired of anyone who thinks they can dictate what happens on public land.
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Gps's are not necessarily that accurate. A professional land surveyor is needed to determine where the actual line is. Short of a land survey, I wouldn't be trusting what the Gps is saying which is likely based on county assessor data. Assessor data is often times not accurate.
I guess you could do a search of any surveys that were done or hire a pls, but it just isn't a good idea to trust that the Gps is going to get you accurate to within a few feet.
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That's the thing, and this has already been explained, but it's irrelevant how accurate the GPS is, if the parcel lines on the map are off.
I agreed if it's public land, he should hunt it. But you can't know where the line is just by looking at a GPS.
The landowner should know where his lines are better than anybody else. Like I said before, contact the state agency that manages that state land, and ask if they can clarify exactly where the line is in relation to the edge of the wheat stubble.
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How many pages is this one gonna go ? I can't believe people harp and moan about the same stuff all time, who aren't even going to hunt the land.... :bash:
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The assessor's records are what will be used in court. If they are in error, then it would be incumbent upon the landowner to prove otherwise and even still no conviction for trespassing would be handed out.
It's not uncommon for landowners to lie about public land being private.
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How many pages is this one gonna go ? I can't believe people harp and moan about the same stuff all time, who aren't even going to hunt the land.... :bash:
What are you even talking about? The OP came on and posed a specific technical question about land he's interested in hunting. He's getting legit discussion based on that question, and taken smart steps that are aimed at preventing conflict.
Who, besides yourself, is harping and moaning in this thread?
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If there are monuments in the ground and the edge of the wheat field is in fact the property line, I don't see how it wouldn't be considered trespassing.
This is all just speculation but I would go by the assumption that the landowner knows where the line is and that he farms to that line. Even if you may not actually end up being convicted of trespassing if it came to that, why would you want the hassle?
Again, the best thing to do before you hunt it, would be to talk with BOTH landowners, the farmer and the state agency.
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Oh, and I would think that the court would go by land survey records over the assessor's records, since the county assessor does not determine the location of property lines. Only professional land surveyors can do that.
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Honestly I can't imagine a trespass case like this ever getting to court. The landowner would have to formally complain. An enforcement officer would need to cite the hunter. The county prosecutor would need to take the case to court.
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So hunting on private farm land is okay as long as you're not that far over the property line? That's what I'm hearing. It's true you may not actually be charged and prosecuted. But why take the chance? I would first want to know exactly where that line is.
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So hunting on private farm land is okay as long as you're not that far over the property line? That's what I'm hearing. It's true you may not actually be charged and prosecuted. But why take the chance? I would first want to know exactly where that line is.
I'm not saying that. I don't believe it would ever get to a point of surveying the land for a criminal case like this. I'd feel legally confident relying on a current map product, but would probably contact the landowner and local enforcement anyway before going on the property.
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I'm not claiming to be an expert on this but I have lived in Cheney and just south in Whitman Countypretty much my whole life. There isn't a piece of state ground I haven't hunted. If the OP want's to send me a Private message with the location I will try to help out. I might even know the landowner. I work with farmer's everyday. I haul fertilizer and pesticides and do machine maintenance. ALOT of farmer's think because they farm a piece of ground they own it when in reality they know exactly where that line is and they don't feel they need to tell you. If you are certain you know the boundary is in that field somewhere then hunt it, and when he show's up stand your ground and tell him to prove otherwise. If the boundary is in the middle of the cultivated field and hedoesn't have it marked you are not going to be cited. I have been there. Done that... like I stated before on here, my house has 12 square miles of state ground nearby within a 5 minute drive. Come down to Revere and hunt bird's. Its 25 min's from Cheney and bird's are everywhere. But regardless of what others on here might think "you cannot drive on state ground", or drive into an access rd used by the farmer to cross private ground to get to a piece of state ground. Just down from the house we have a field entrance rd that crosses about 300yds of private ground and goes into DNR ground. It's a private rd and hunter's are always getting in trouble for driving down it to get to the state ground. The thing is, just be sure in your own mind you are in the right place and don't let anyone push you around claiming ownership or harrass you while your lawfully hunting. Let them know harrassment is illegal also. PM me if you would like. I don't hunt ducks so I won't be stealing your area. :tup:
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I was referring to land surveys that have already been done. Not that a survey would be done just in order to prosecute someone for trespassing.
I'd be extremely nervous hunting that close a property line, not knowing exactly where it is, especially with other hunters being there as well who paid to hunt the private land.
It's also not necessarily a good idea to hunt that close to a property line, even when you're sure of the exact location of that line.
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So hunting on private farm land is okay as long as you're not that far over the property line? That's what I'm hearing. It's true you may not actually be charged and prosecuted. But why take the chance? I would first want to know exactly where that line is.
I'm not saying that. I don't believe it would ever get to a point of surveying the land for a criminal case like this. I'd feel legally confident relying on a current map product, but would probably contact the landowner and local enforcement anyway before going on the property.
:yeah:
Contact the landowner and have the discussion. Show him the info you have, share with him the LEO's interpretation of your maps, and give him a chance to respond. Since he has paying customers (lessee's), he has a bigger than normal stake in this even if it technically isn't his property. You never know, he might surprise you with better documentation and/or how reasonable he can be...
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I was referring to land surveys that have already been done. Not that a survey would be done just in order to prosecute someone for trespassing.
I'd be extremely nervous hunting that close a property line, not knowing exactly where it is, especially with other hunters being there as well who paid to hunt the private land.
It's also not necessarily a good idea to hunt that close to a property line, even when you're sure of the exact location of that line.
If the animal you shoot goes onto private property, you have no right to retrieve or kill it without the landowner's permission. That's a good argument against hunting close to property boundaries.
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I'm not necessarily saying to tell the guy off either. Even if you go to the assessor's office and look at the map they have, it can be wrong. If you do get in trouble for tresspassing on someone's land where other's have paid to hunt I believe you can also be subject to paying the landowner his access fee on top of trespassing fines.
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How many pages is this one gonna go ? I can't believe people harp and moan about the same stuff all time, who aren't even going to hunt the land.... :bash:
What are you even talking about? The OP came on and posed a specific technical question about land he's interested in hunting. He's getting legit discussion based on that question, and taken smart steps that are aimed at preventing conflict.
Who, besides yourself, is harping and moaning in this thread?
I'm not harping and moaning at all. I could care less. But, it's the same thing that has been brought up a million times before and absolutely nothing helps the OP. Who in their right mind in going to get ahold of the assessors office, a surveyor, the WDFW, etc to hunt a piece of land ? Gimme a break....
One more thing to the OP. My OnXMaps are dead nuts on for the markers/boundaries all the time, if YOU, know where the markers/boundaries are. Even out in the middle of nowhere.
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Hunt it, you have the gps, map and game warden. It's public land.
I guarantee you the farmer didn't have a survey or talk with the county before he planted.
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I'm not harping and moaning at all. I could care less.
How much less?
::):)
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I'm not harping and moaning at all. I could care less.
How much less?
::):)
Your mama wears army boots..... :tup:
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LOL
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Hunt it, you have the gps, map and game warden. It's public land.
I guarantee you the farmer didn't have a survey or talk with the county before he planted.
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The farmer may or may not have had a survey done. But, the federal government surveyed the entire state back in the 1800's. If the farmer is using the corner monuments from the original government survey, then it doesn't matter where the county assessor's map shows the line.
Why would the farmer talk to the county? The county is not the authority that determines the position of property lines.
Also, as I said before, it's possible that the state agency that owns the land has done a survey and monumented the corners. That's why I suggested talking to them about the location of the line.
Yes, hunt the public land. I agree. But only hunt where you can be sure it's public land. The portion of the land that's being farmed is either private land, public land that the farmer is encroaching on, or public land that the farmer has leased from the state for growing wheat.
There's no way to know which one is true until you talk to the appropriate land management agency (DNR or WDFW).
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The maps are the maps. Every enforcement agency uses them and I have no question about trusting them. They use gps and township/range data and are very accurate.
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Simply put - with respect - you are wrong.
Maps are representations, period. They are not records of surveys. They all have disclaimers stating the fact that they are not accurate.
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The maps are the maps. Every enforcement agency uses them and I have no question about trusting them. They use gps and township/range data and are very accurate.
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Simply put - with respect - you are wrong.
Maps are representations, period. They are not records of surveys. They all have disclaimers stating the fact that they are not accurate.
Accurate or not, if that is what legal authorities are using what is the issue?
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I've always relied on my GPS with the Onyx map chip.
I've been hassled by a couple farmers but when I show them my GPS track (and that I stayed on public land per that map) I've not been hassled any farther........
I do agree with the advice to play nice if possible, and reach out for a conversation if the farmer is willing. It's ALWAYS better to have folks on your side, if possible.
(I've run into a couple farmers who think they own state land. GPS can be very handy at that point. ;))
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You can't rely on GPS maps.
You can't rely on fence lines.
You can't rely on assessor data because it could be outdated. The information you got ten minutes ago may have changed five minutes ago.
So, hire your survey crew to take with you on your hunts. Before you leave the truck, make sure they've done a complete survey of the land you intend to hunt.
The fact is that there is no 100% way to know with certainty whose property you are on in many instances, or where the exact boundaries ares.
That's why most enforcement agencies have accepted the use of current GPS maps as a defense against trespass. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a single conviction for trespass for someone using current GPS mapping data.
That said, there are a few reasons to be careful. First, GPS units are not completely accurate and can be off by 50 feet of more. Second, if you are hunting right up to the edge of private property you run the risk of shooting something that enters private property and cannot be legally retrieved without permission.
The common sense solution is to contact adjacent landowners in advance. and seek to obtain permission to hunt. If they do not grant it, ask if they would allow you to retrieve downed game.
If you have done your part to know and respect private property boundaries, and approach situations with common sense and respect for landowners you should have very few if any problems.
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The maps are the maps. Every enforcement agency uses them and I have no question about trusting them. They use gps and township/range data and are very accurate.
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Simply put - with respect - you are wrong.
Maps are representations, period. They are not records of surveys. They all have disclaimers stating the fact that they are not accurate.
Accurate or not, if that is what legal authorities are using what is the issue?
Legal authorities is key. Enforcement officers are peace keepers, not proper ty experts. However, if you're truly looking for what the law says, than look at legal documents. Research titles some have record of surveys completed, not all though. But all titles have legal descriptions.
You'll find out quickly that the legal authorities are the lawyers.
It's best to play nice for the time being. Work with the state agency to find out if they know where the legal boundary is. You may have discovered an illegal encroachment on the state land and I'm sure they'll rectify it. Remember though, it's Government, and they move slowly.
Good luck either way.
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This particular situation is tricky because of the evidence on the ground of where the landowner feels his property line is located. (the edge of the wheat field)
If it weren't for that, I'd say just go with where the GPS map shows the line.
It's no different than if the landowner had built a fence on the property line. Then you come along with your GPS and don't agree with the location of the fence.
Would you cross the fence and hunt on the private side? Or would you stay on the side that you know is public?
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The maps are the maps. Every enforcement agency uses them and I have no question about trusting them. They use gps and township/range data and are very accurate.
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Simply put - with respect - you are wrong.
Maps are representations, period. They are not records of surveys. They all have disclaimers stating the fact that they are not accurate.
Accurate or not, if that is what legal authorities are using what is the issue?
Legal authorities is key. Enforcement officers are peace keepers, not proper ty experts. However, if you're truly looking for what the law says, than look at legal documents. Research titles some have record of surveys completed, not all though. But all titles have legal descriptions.
You'll find out quickly that the legal authorities are the lawyers.
It's best to play nice for the time being. Work with the state agency to find out if they know where the legal boundary is. You may have discovered an illegal encroachment on the state land and I'm sure they'll rectify it. Remember though, it's Government, and they move slowly.
Good luck either way.
The problem with legal documents is interpreting them, and translating them to actual field locations. Here's a legal description of a section near my home: POR OF E 1/2 OF NW 1/4 OF SEC 16-24-06 LY N OF N MGN OF CO RD.
How will I know when I'm on that property, or just off it? How will the legal authority that comes to cite me for trespass know if I'm on the property, or just off? How will the judge?
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The legal authority would most likely go by what the landowner tells him, along with evidence on the ground such as a road, a fence, or the edge of a cleared area.
I'm only speaking from the land surveying side of it though, as that is what I know. I don't know the law enforcement side.
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The legal authority would most likely go by what the landowner tells him, along with evidence on the ground such as a road, a fence, or the edge of a cleared area.
I'm only speaking from the land surveying side of it though, as that is what I know. I don't know the law enforcement side.
Bobcat:
Thank you for this informative response. It appears your profession is or has to do the land surveying? Or perhaps at one time this is what you did?
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The legal authority would most likely go by what the landowner tells him, along with evidence on the ground such as a road, a fence, or the edge of a cleared area.
I'm only speaking from the land surveying side of it though, as that is what I know. I don't know the law enforcement side.
Bobcat:
Thank you for this informative response. It appears your profession is or has to do the land surveying? Or perhaps at one time this is what you did?
Not sure if you're being serious, but yes that is true. Almost 20 years now.
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Why wouldn't I be serious it was a compliment. So may I ask what agency you ply your skills for?
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The legal authority would most likely go by what the landowner tells him, along with evidence on the ground such as a road, a fence, or the edge of a cleared area.
I'm only speaking from the land surveying side of it though, as that is what I know. I don't know the law enforcement side.
In Wyoming the enforcement officers go with onXmaps data, not what a landowner says because some of them lie. It would be interesting to know what Washington enforcement does.
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The legal authority would most likely go by what the landowner tells him, along with evidence on the ground such as a road, a fence, or the edge of a cleared area.
I'm only speaking from the land surveying side of it though, as that is what I know. I don't know the law enforcement side.
In Wyoming the enforcement officers go with onXmaps data, not what a landowner says because some of them lie. It would be interesting to know what Washington enforcement does.
I'm guessing in this situation if law enforcement was called, that there would be no citation. But I can't imagine it being an enjoyable hunt if you end up butting heads with a landowner and possibly paying customers. If there was a second time I would think there would be a citation.
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The legal authority would most likely go by what the landowner tells him, along with evidence on the ground such as a road, a fence, or the edge of a cleared area.
I'm only speaking from the land surveying side of it though, as that is what I know. I don't know the law enforcement side.
In Wyoming the enforcement officers go with onXmaps data, not what a landowner says because some of them lie. It would be interesting to know what Washington enforcement does.
I'm guessing in this situation if law enforcement was called, that there would be no citation. But I can't imagine it being an enjoyable hunt if you end up butting heads with a landowner and possibly paying customers. If there was a second time I would think there would be a citation.
On two occasions in Wyoming I've had someone tell me I was hunting on their property. I trusted that my GPS data was accurate, and chose to rely on it. I made both the same offer: I'd call the authorities and wait if they would. If it could be proved I was trespassing I would leave and they can ask that I be charged. If they there were wrong, I might ask to have them cited for interfering with a legal hunt. In both cases they immediately backed down. I fully believed they were bluffing and trying to treat public land as their own.
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I had the same scenario happen here in Washington, in Garfield county. Deer hunting on a section of state land, the farmer/rancher who leased it from the DNR for grazing his cattle drove up on us in his old pickup. He told us we were on private land and he had other hunters who had paid to hunt there. I had my GPS in my hand as we were arguing with him. Told him he was wrong and to call the sheriff. We were done hunting for the day anyway so I told him we'd meet him at my truck, down on the county road, which was about a 20 minute walk. We got down there and never did see that guy again, or the sheriff.
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But I can't imagine it being an enjoyable hunt if you end up butting heads with a landowner and possibly paying customers.
This is my position.
It makes little difference if legal, or not.
Will it be an enjoyable hunt, or will it be a day of confrontation?
Sometimes it is just better to find a different spot, even on public land.
I know I would rather spend a day hunting without harvesting anything, than spend a day arguing with someone about hunting. :twocents:
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I agree confrontations suck.
In Montana, I found a half section of public land that had a ton of antelope and monster whitetails on it. A beater old truck with four young guys came up and told me I was on their Uncle's land, he had bought it from the state. So, not wanting to push it I left. This year, I happened to run across the warden and asked him about it. He confirmed that he was unaware of anything. I actually looked up the records at the county and on MT's hunting maps from the state. Both confirmed it was state land. So, I head back and this year there is a lock on the gate and a fake sign saying no hunting and hinting it is official MT policy.
I guess my whole point is that I am tired of doing everything right and getting jacked by local people who think they have more right to the land than I do. Whether to push the issue or not is a personal choice.
If it were local land that I planned on hunting more than once, I would probably look into hunter harassment laws and have a chat with the warden.
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My greatest concern about this situation is creating a potentially adversarial situation over 75 yards of huntable ground. That’s not very much to argue over, and if the bird dies one foot over the line you can bet the landowner will deny you access to retrieve it unless you made a prior arrangement with him. :twocents:
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EVERYTIME I've asked a landowner if I could trespass, to shoot coyotes on their land, the answer is aways 100% yes, except when the ground squirrels are out. They want the coyotes left alone so they can eat the squirrels.
I never back away from asking a landowner and I've always had a nice conversation with them too, nothing ever nasty..
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Campmeat, that's because you're old and disabled, and they feel sorry for you. :tup:
Try asking permission for waterfowl hunting on land that's already leased out to other hunters.
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Avoid the confrontations, hunt elsewhere this year. Spend a bit of off season time looking up the lawful owner. If indeed it is huntable public land that is encroached upon, bang away next year, it's your land. Just have all the facts first.
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Campmeat, that's because you're old and disabled, and they feel sorry for you. :tup:
Try asking permission for waterfowl hunting on land that's already leased out to other hunters.
It's because I'm very good looking...................i hunt on leased land all the time, it's called the, Forest Service.. :tup: