Post by: steeliedrew on January 06, 2016, 04:52:11 PM
WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE Print Version
NEWS RELEASE
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
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January 06, 2016
Contact: Jerry Nelson, (360) 902-2519
Craig Bartlett, (360) 902-2259
Tests show disease in hoof
from elk killed in Skagit County
OLYMPIA – Preliminary tests indicate bacteria found in an abnormal hoof taken from an elk killed in a vehicle collision in Skagit County east of Sedro-Woolley may be the same strain found in diseased elk in southwest Washington.
Last month, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) sent abnormal hooves collected from four elk in northwest Washington to Colorado State University to test for treponeme-associated hoof disease, which has infected two elk herds in southwest Washington.
Results came back negative for three elk harvested by hunters in Whatcom County, but the sample from Skagit County revealed microscopic evidence of treponeme-associated hoof disease, said Kristin Mansfield, WDFW epidemiologist.
All four of the elk tested by the university were from the North Cascades herd – also also known as the Nooksack herd – which includes about 1,000 animals centered in Skagit and Whatcom counties. The hoof that tested positive for treponeme bacteria was taken from an elk found dead along Highway 20.
“We routinely send disfigured elk hooves from around the state for testing, but this is the first one outside of southwest Washington that shows evidence of this disease,” Mansfield said. “At this point it is unclear whether this condition will spread to other elk as it has in the affected area.”
Mansfield said WDFW now plans to have hoof samples from the animal sent to testing facilities at Washington State University and the U.S. Department of Agriculture to confirm the initial findings and determine whether the bacteria are the same strain found in southwest Washington. Test results are expected next month.
Treponeme associated hoof disease was first diagnosed in southwest Washington elk herds in 2014, after five years of analysis by five independent laboratories. While relatively common in livestock, hoof disease caused by treponeme bacteria had never before been diagnosed in wildlife.
Starting in the late 1990s with reports of elk with hoof deformities in the Cowlitz River Basin, the disease has spread to a number of counties in southwest Washington, affecting both the Mount St. Helens and Willapa Hills elk herds.
WDFW is currently conducting two studies pertaining to hoof disease – one to assess the prevalence of the disease in southwest Washington, the other to gauge its effects on elk survival and reproduction.
As a precautionary measure, the department investigates reports of abnormal hooves from elk killed by hunters, traffic accidents and other causes and submits those showing signs of the disease for testing, Mansfield said.
To report elk with hoof deformities or learn more about hoof disease in elk, see WDFW’s website at http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/health/hoof_disease/.
Post by: Bob33 on January 06, 2016, 04:57:08 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 06, 2016, 04:58:54 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 06, 2016, 05:16:53 PM
Post by: AdnaHunter on January 06, 2016, 05:17:40 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 06, 2016, 05:21:17 PM
Hopefully it doesn't spread around over there like it did in the St Helens herd. I'm not familiar with that area, but are there any stand out similarities with the other affected area? Heavy spraying or dairy farms or something?
Only one dairy in Skagit county on Hwy where elk live, but lots of commercial tree farms they roam. :dunno:
Post by: grundy53 on January 06, 2016, 05:21:26 PM
Weyerhaeuser recently purchase any land up there??Very recently.
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Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 06, 2016, 05:23:24 PM
Weyerhaeuser recently purchase any land up there??
As a matter of fact they did, The jackman creek drainage area. Not really any elk in there though, they wonder thru from time to time.
Post by: kodiak 907 on January 06, 2016, 06:49:06 PM
Post by: NWKrenz on January 06, 2016, 07:31:23 PM
Post by: Kittman on January 07, 2016, 08:26:54 AM
Post by: grundy53 on January 07, 2016, 08:32:04 AM
Me thinks it is past time for WDFW to re-allocate some it's Wolf restoration money and put it into a program to set up Zinc and Iodine mineral lick stations for the Elk. It would be better than what they are currently doing about this disease.Agreed.
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Post by: Bob33 on January 07, 2016, 08:58:25 AM
I heard people testify in two separate hoof disease meetings that they'd seen hoof disease in Skagit Co. and the WDFW waved them off both times. This was within the last 2-3 years. When I voice my disgust for parts of the DFW, this is why. The same goes for admitting to new wolf packs and wolf kills.It's been on their website for nearly two years. :dunno:
Post by: grundy53 on January 07, 2016, 09:05:00 AM
Which is before Weyerhaeuser acquired their land up there for those looking to blame them.I heard people testify in two separate hoof disease meetings that they'd seen hoof disease in Skagit Co. and the WDFW waved them off both times. This was within the last 2-3 years. When I voice my disgust for parts of the DFW, this is why. The same goes for admitting to new wolf packs and wolf kills.It's been on their website for nearly two years. :dunno:
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Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 07, 2016, 09:17:02 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 07, 2016, 09:26:04 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 07, 2016, 10:56:54 AM
...Well does this come as any surprise ? When you transplant elk from an already diseased herd and bring them to one of the healthiest herds in the state , what you think will happen ..All the testing done on those elk should have showed there may be a potential problem ...This will go over really well around here I am sure !I can see a serious problem coming our way !
When were these elk moved? Is this documented?
Post by: hoof rot on January 07, 2016, 12:24:56 PM
Post by: Curly on January 07, 2016, 12:29:52 PM
has anybody found hoof rot in the Olympic park?
https://wdfw.maps.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=8dce45e29c8b43b8bf93cd20c523ca31
The above link is a map to hoof diseased elk.
Post by: hoof rot on January 07, 2016, 12:40:36 PM
Post by: Special T on January 07, 2016, 01:14:32 PM
Bh45might remember correctly but I think it was 80 early 90s when they were transplanted.
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Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 07, 2016, 01:16:29 PM
Wyco purchased the longview fiber timber holdings some 40k acres... there are about 600 to a square mile. They have land on the north side of the river and north of lake Cavanaugh along thunder ridge to day lake area.
Bh45might remember correctly but I think it was 80 early 90s when they were transplanted.
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Middle 90s I believe.
Post by: bobcat on January 07, 2016, 01:17:33 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00772/nooksack.pdf
Post by: Bob33 on January 07, 2016, 01:25:22 PM
Everything you need to know should be in this document:That was written in 2000. A transplant from St. Helens elk occurred in 2003 when the herd had dwindled to about 300 animals.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00772/nooksack.pdf
Post by: Curly on January 07, 2016, 01:27:19 PM
Quote
We also acknowledge the considerable contributions to Nooksack elk recovery made by WDFW Region 5 staff, notably P. Miller, B. Calkins, and F. Dobler (retired), who facilitated trapping and relocating elk from the Mt. St. Helens herd.http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01703/wdfw01703.pdf
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 07, 2016, 01:56:38 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 07, 2016, 02:09:04 PM
Post by: jongosch on January 07, 2016, 03:56:06 PM
Last month, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife sent abnormal hooves collected from four elk in northwest Washington to Colorado State University to test for treponeme-associated hoof disease, which has infected two elk herds in Southwest Washington.
Results came back negative for three elk harvested by hunters in Whatcom County, but the sample from Skagit County revealed microscopic evidence of treponeme-associated hoof disease, said Kristin Mansfield, department epidemiologist.
So according to WDFW's own press release only 1 of the 4 elk with abnormal hooves tested positive for the treponema bacteria which WDFW has been claiming is the cause of elk hoof disease. 1 in 4 doesn't seem like a very high correlation to me. I suppose it's possible that the other 3 elk had deformities unrelated to hoof disease. Or maybe WDFW's treponema theory has been incomplete all along. What do you guys think?
This is straight from the WDFW website:
What causes Elk Hoof Disease?
Evidence to date points to a type of infectious bacteria (Treponema sp.) associated with hoof disease in domestic sheep and cattle.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 07, 2016, 04:03:33 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 07, 2016, 04:28:23 PM
It is too small a sample to draw any statistically valid conclusions.
Post by: HntnFsh on January 07, 2016, 05:41:48 PM
Did you guys catch this bit?
Last month, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife sent abnormal hooves collected from four elk in northwest Washington to Colorado State University to test for treponeme-associated hoof disease, which has infected two elk herds in Southwest Washington.
Results came back negative for three elk harvested by hunters in Whatcom County, but the sample from Skagit County revealed microscopic evidence of treponeme-associated hoof disease, said Kristin Mansfield, department epidemiologist.
So according to WDFW's own press release only 1 of the 4 elk with abnormal hooves tested positive for the treponema bacteria which WDFW has been claiming is the cause of elk hoof disease. 1 in 4 doesn't seem like a very high correlation to me. I suppose it's possible that the other 3 elk had deformities unrelated to hoof disease. Or maybe WDFW's treponema theory has been incomplete all along. What do you guys think?
This is straight from the WDFW website:
What causes Elk Hoof Disease?
Evidence to date points to a type of infectious bacteria (Treponema sp.) associated with hoof disease in domestic sheep and cattle.
Thank you jongosch WDFW obviously wants their theory shoved down our throats. Trying to convince us that treponeme is the issue. If that's the case why has it taken so many years for this to transpire when elk and dairies have been around for over a 100 years. I think they are cowtowing to big timber. Those elk aren't getting the nutrients they need to fight of infection and disease because all the spraying is killing the plants they get it from. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!
Post by: Alan K on January 07, 2016, 06:17:44 PM
Is it really that far-fetched that a strain of bacteria finally evolved to the point it could branch out and infect other species similar to cattle? Cattle are carriers of this bacteria from what I understand, not unlike pneumonia in domestic sheep which can spread into bighorn sheep. With all the cattle purchases farms make, who knows where the cattle come from and how advanced of strains they may be carrying?
Post by: fish vacuum on January 08, 2016, 02:19:11 AM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 08, 2016, 11:55:59 AM
Quote
Harvest units are 'site prep' sprayed after harvest to give seedlings a time to establish themselves, and forage grows in soon thereafter. I can't see how animals face a meaningful nutrient deficiency because a new clearcut (surrounded by green up stands with forage) goes a couple years without.I can show you the difference between sprayed and not sprayed down in 673. Border of state land (not sprayed) and private timber land (sprayed) one side is like a moonscape with only a few weeds and thistle growing alongside the planted saplings in yellow cages, while less than a mile away is a healthy clear-cut choked with plant growth and 8 foot trees that can hide a whole herd of elk within 20 yards off the road...and not far away a few clear-cuts that are nothing but dry wood 7 years and counting... not even been replanted (Hancock Land)
Once its dead, it don't grow back..
Post by: grundy53 on January 08, 2016, 11:57:25 AM
The state sprays.QuoteHarvest units are 'site prep' sprayed after harvest to give seedlings a time to establish themselves, and forage grows in soon thereafter. I can't see how animals face a meaningful nutrient deficiency because a new clearcut (surrounded by green up stands with forage) goes a couple years without.I can show you the difference between sprayed and not sprayed down in 673. Border of state land (not sprayed) and private timber land (sprayed) one side is like a moonscape with only a few weeds and thistle growing alongside the planted saplings in yellow cages, while less than a mile away is a healthy clear-cut choked with plant growth and 8 foot trees that can hide a whole herd of elk within 20 yards off the road...and not far away a few clear-cuts that are nothing but dry wood 7 years and counting... not even been replanted (Hancock Land)
Once its dead, it don't grow back..
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Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 08, 2016, 12:20:26 PM
Quote
The state sprays.Must be different chemicals, because the difference is amazing..
Post by: grundy53 on January 08, 2016, 12:25:26 PM
Not really, most state cuts I see are very similar if not worse than private timberland.QuoteThe state sprays.Must be different chemicals, because the difference is amazing..
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Post by: grundy53 on January 08, 2016, 12:31:43 PM
Hard to believe it hasn't been replanted for 7 years.QuoteHarvest units are 'site prep' sprayed after harvest to give seedlings a time to establish themselves, and forage grows in soon thereafter. I can't see how animals face a meaningful nutrient deficiency because a new clearcut (surrounded by green up stands with forage) goes a couple years without.I can show you the difference between sprayed and not sprayed down in 673. Border of state land (not sprayed) and private timber land (sprayed) one side is like a moonscape with only a few weeds and thistle growing alongside the planted saplings in yellow cages, while less than a mile away is a healthy clear-cut choked with plant growth and 8 foot trees that can hide a whole herd of elk within 20 yards off the road...and not far away a few clear-cuts that are nothing but dry wood 7 years and counting... not even been replanted (Hancock Land)
Once its dead, it don't grow back..
RCWs > Title 76 > Chapter 76.09 > Section 76.09.070
76.09.067 << 76.09.070 >> 76.09.080
RCW 76.09.070
Reforestation—Requirements—Procedures—Notification on sale or transfer.
(1) After the completion of a logging operation, satisfactory reforestation, as defined by the rules and regulations promulgated by the board, shall be completed within three years. However:
(a) A longer period may be authorized if seed or seedlings are not available;
(b) A period of up to five years may be allowed where a natural regeneration plan is approved by the department; and
(c) The department may identify low-productivity lands on which it may allow for a period of up to ten years for natural regeneration.
(2)(a) Upon the completion of a reforestation operation a report on such operation shall be filed with the department of natural resources.
(b) Within twelve months of receipt of such a report the department shall inspect the reforestation operation, and shall determine either that the reforestation operation has been properly completed or that further reforestation and inspection is necessary.
(3) Satisfactory reforestation is the obligation of the owner of the land as defined by forest practices regulations, except the owner of perpetual rights to cut timber owned separately from the land is responsible for satisfactory reforestation. The reforestation obligation shall become the obligation of a new owner if the land or perpetual timber rights are sold or otherwise transferred.
(4)(a) Prior to the sale or transfer of land or perpetual timber rights subject to a reforestation obligation or to a notice of conversion to a nonforestry use issued under RCW 76.09.060, the seller shall notify the buyer of the existence and nature of the obligation and the buyer shall sign a notice indicating the buyer's knowledge of all obligations.
(b) The notice shall be on a form prepared by the department and shall be sent to the department by the seller at the time of sale or transfer of the land or perpetual timber rights.
(c) If the seller fails to notify the buyer about the reforestation obligation or the notice of conversion to a nonforestry use, the seller shall pay the buyer's costs related to reforestation or mitigation under RCW76.09.470, including all legal costs which include reasonable attorneys' fees, incurred by the buyer in enforcing the reforestation obligation or mitigation requirements against the seller.
(d) Failure by the seller to send the required notice to the department at the time of sale shall be prima facie evidence, in an action by the buyer against the seller for costs related to reforestation or mitigation, that the seller did not notify the buyer of the reforestation obligation or potential mitigation requirements prior to sale.
(5) The forest practices regulations may provide alternatives to or limitations on the applicability of reforestation requirements with respect to forest lands being converted in whole or in part to another use which is compatible with timber growing. The forest practices regulations may identify classifications and/or areas of forest land that have the likelihood of future conversion to urban development within a ten year period. The reforestation requirements may be modified or eliminated on such lands. However, such identification and/or such conversion to urban development must be consistent with any local or regional land use plans or ordinances.
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Post by: chester on January 08, 2016, 02:12:56 PM
Are they at different elevations by chance?QuoteThe state sprays.Must be different chemicals, because the difference is amazing..
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Post by: jackknife on January 08, 2016, 08:20:13 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 12, 2016, 03:32:37 PM
Weyerhaeuser bought out Longview fiber property a few years back. Its kind of fishy all of a sudden hoof rot show in Nooksack.
It wasn't that long ago. The hoof rot showed up before Weyerhaeuser did.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 13, 2016, 05:47:44 AM
Weyerhaeuser bought out Longview fiber property a few years back. Its kind of fishy all of a sudden hoof rot show in Nooksack.
It wasn't that long ago. The hoof rot showed up before Weyerhaeuser did.
All of the timber companies use the same chemicals on their property.
Post by: grundy53 on January 13, 2016, 06:12:26 AM
That doesn't mean you can blame Weyco for something they didn't do.Weyerhaeuser bought out Longview fiber property a few years back. Its kind of fishy all of a sudden hoof rot show in Nooksack.
It wasn't that long ago. The hoof rot showed up before Weyerhaeuser did.
All of the timber companies use the same chemicals on their property.
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Post by: pianoman9701 on January 13, 2016, 06:27:34 AM
I didn't say it meant that. :dunno:That doesn't mean you can blame Weyco for something they didn't do.Weyerhaeuser bought out Longview fiber property a few years back. Its kind of fishy all of a sudden hoof rot show in Nooksack.
It wasn't that long ago. The hoof rot showed up before Weyerhaeuser did.
All of the timber companies use the same chemicals on their property.
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Post by: grundy53 on January 13, 2016, 06:33:41 AM
Well you quoted my post. Which was responding to someone trying to blame it on Weyco.I didn't say it meant that. :dunno:That doesn't mean you can blame Weyco for something they didn't do.Weyerhaeuser bought out Longview fiber property a few years back. Its kind of fishy all of a sudden hoof rot show in Nooksack.
It wasn't that long ago. The hoof rot showed up before Weyerhaeuser did.
All of the timber companies use the same chemicals on their property.
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Post by: pianoman9701 on January 13, 2016, 07:15:38 AM
Post by: RadSav on January 13, 2016, 07:36:06 AM
Over the past 3 or four years this has changed. We are now seeing deer and elk in a sprayed cut within a year afterward. Did the animals adapt? Or have the chemicals been adjusted?
It is still no comparison to the old days when they would burn the cuts. Animals thrived back then! Every cow you saw the next spring seemed to be pregnant and later have twins. The herds were healthy as heck! We would even see bear in those cuts within a month of a burn. I haven't seen a bear in a sprayed cut in over a decade.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 13, 2016, 07:45:27 AM
Post by: Practical Approach on January 25, 2016, 10:32:28 AM
Elk were trans located from St. Helens in 2003 and 2005. It seems a far stretch to make assumptions that diseased elk were moved from the southwest to the Nooksack and it took 10-12 years for it to show up.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2016, 10:36:03 AM
As I understand, Hoof disease occurs naturally in elk herds throughout Washington State. There are many types of hoof diseases. Almost all of them are not contagious and only flare for short time periods and only affect a few animals. The one we are all concerned about is the Treponeme version from southwest Washington. However, there are many Treponeme bacteria that cause hoof issues, the one we are really concerned about is the specific type that has been identified in southwest Washington. The reports from the Nooksack identify testing positive for Treponeme, but the samples are still out for further testing to see if it is the same specific bacteria as the one in the southwest. So, right now we don't know if the Nooksack has the same thing.
Elk were trans located from St. Helens in 2003 and 2005. It seems a far stretch to make assumptions that diseased elk were moved from the southwest to the Nooksack and it took 10-12 years for it to show up.
"...short period of time..." Which is certainly not the case with the WA outbreak of hoof disease, unless you consider 28 years and in some places, over 50% of the herd affected.
Post by: Practical Approach on January 25, 2016, 10:47:27 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2016, 10:57:14 AM
Post by: Billy Fudd on January 26, 2016, 07:51:17 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on January 27, 2016, 06:11:16 AM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 27, 2016, 12:51:02 PM
Quote
a super bacteria that has evolved to take out our non native elk,:dunno:
It is affecting our native elk, Roosevelt... not the non-native elk (Rocky Mountain)
Post by: Billy Fudd on January 27, 2016, 07:09:17 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 28, 2016, 11:07:50 AM
Quote
Definitely was not clear on native vs non native species. Pretty sure the St. Helens Herd East of I5 is not considered true RooseveltNot meaning to "thread-jack" but elk were native to Washington in all areas currently found, then were forced into isolation by environmental factors (climate change) and other habitat factors, including harvest by indigenous people and evolved into the sub-species.
Rocky Mountain Elk were brought in to help a struggling herd and re-establish elk into areas they had historically held elk.
Because studies have shown that they are genetically the same, and crossbreeding will occur, the "line was drawn" differentiating between the different elk.
Genetics and diet dictate characteristics of the animal, Cascade Roosevelt are more likely to crossbreed, but elk are too magnificent an animal to be called a "bench-leg"
And just to double thread jack, I was told that the term "Bench-leg" was because one of them would have to stand on a bench to complete the act... used as a way of calling it a mix-breed.
Post by: Billy Fudd on January 28, 2016, 12:11:26 PM
Post by: hoof rot on January 29, 2016, 10:25:21 AM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 29, 2016, 01:18:04 PM
I highly doubt mother nature did this :bash:What bothers me is that according to their studies the elk are not born with it.
I would have to look it up to be sure, but I think they said that it begins to affect them around 7-10 months, I suspect warming temperatures and late winter rainstorms washing chemicals into low elevation groundwater,,, :dunno: