Post by: huntnphool on January 24, 2016, 09:40:37 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 24, 2016, 09:43:45 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 24, 2016, 09:44:25 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 24, 2016, 09:50:49 PM
Post by: jackelope on January 24, 2016, 09:51:32 PM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:
Money like that gets spent every year on sheep tags. Just never in WA.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 24, 2016, 09:54:58 PM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:
Money like that gets spent every year on sheep tags. Just never in WA.
Yep a fool and his money are soon departed. :chuckle:
Post by: Bob33 on January 24, 2016, 09:58:45 PM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:Several would disagree. $150K is a bargain compared to Montana's bighorn tag.
www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/)
Post by: BKMFR on January 24, 2016, 09:59:54 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 24, 2016, 10:01:01 PM
I'm glad the WDFW benefits by this but I just don't get why someone would spend that much.
Post by: Bob33 on January 24, 2016, 10:02:52 PM
Couldn't a guy do a guided sheep hunt in Alaska, Canada, or Mexico for a lot less than that? What would it cost? Maybe $30,000?1. Because they can.
I'm glad the WDFW benefits by this but I just don't get why someone would spend that much.
2. Because they support where the money goes.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 24, 2016, 10:06:28 PM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:Several would disagree. $150K is a bargain compared to Montana's bighorn tag.
www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/)
Just my opinion on the subject, it's great that the sheep will benefit from this plus the hunters who can't afford these type of auction tags as well will. :tup:
Surprised to see the Manson unit included in the auction, bio said it needed to see some reprieve from to much hunting when lokidog had his ram checked in.
Post by: HardCorpsHuntr on January 24, 2016, 10:09:21 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 24, 2016, 10:10:58 PM
Couldn't a guy do a guided sheep hunt in Alaska, Canada, or Mexico for a lot less than that? What would it cost? Maybe $30,000?1. Because they can.
I'm glad the WDFW benefits by this but I just don't get why someone would spend that much.
2. Because they support where the money goes.
Yeah, those two reasons make sense but I still have to wonder what actually motivated the guy who spent the money.
If he spent any time on here he'd probably be afraid that all his money would be spent on the wolves. :o
Post by: jackelope on January 24, 2016, 10:12:38 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 24, 2016, 10:13:22 PM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:Several would disagree. $150K is a bargain compared to Montana's bighorn tag.
www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/)
Just my opinion on the subject, it's great that the sheep will benefit from this plus the hunters who can't afford these type of auction tags as well will. :tup:
Surprised to see the Manson unit included in the auction, bio said it needed to see some reprieve from to much hunting when lokidog had his ram checked in.
Manson is not even in the conversation, that money was spent only because Swakane is being made available.
Post by: bobcat on January 24, 2016, 10:15:35 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 24, 2016, 10:17:08 PM
Didn't the world record Cali ram come out of the swakane a few years back? That's probably got something to do with the dollar amount it sold for.
Yep. 2010 I believe, they have a picture of it in the Wenatchee WDFW office.
Post by: huntnphool on January 24, 2016, 10:21:10 PM
Didn't the world record Cali ram come out of the swakane a few years back? That's probably got something to do with the dollar amount it sold for.
Yep. 2010 I believe, they have a picture of it in the Wenatchee WDFW office.
Plus Sam's ram this last year will be the new #2 Washington and probably #4 in the world.
Nothing that big in there right now but there are still some nice ones.
Post by: bobcat on January 24, 2016, 10:32:14 PM
Post by: X-Force on January 24, 2016, 10:37:36 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 24, 2016, 11:12:53 PM
Post by: X-Force on January 24, 2016, 11:43:57 PM
I hope the money actually goes to sheep preservation.
That makes a whole lot of us!
Post by: andrew_in_idaho on January 25, 2016, 06:51:10 AM
Couldn't a guy do a guided sheep hunt in Alaska, Canada, or Mexico for a lot less than that? What would it cost? Maybe $30,000?1. Because they can.
I'm glad the WDFW benefits by this but I just don't get why someone would spend that much.
2. Because they support where the money goes.
Yeah, those two reasons make sense but I still have to wonder what actually motivated the guy who spent the money.
If he spent any time on here he'd probably be afraid that all his money would be spent on the wolves. :o
California bighorns count towards a sheep slam. Maybe the guy already has the other 3 legs and is after his rocky/Cali ram and didn't want to spend the $ to buy a tag in one of the more expensive states
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Ridgerunner on January 25, 2016, 06:55:16 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 25, 2016, 07:02:19 AM
Someone got a bargain on the Montana tag I see :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on January 25, 2016, 07:13:02 AM
Post by: nwhunter on January 25, 2016, 07:27:41 AM
Post by: Badhabit on January 25, 2016, 07:56:27 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 25, 2016, 08:09:06 AM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 25, 2016, 08:14:41 AM
Man I can't help but wonder if somebody doesn't have a giant found already and that's why the price went so high.
I was at the WSF show when it was auctioned. No large ones found already, just a new unit to hunt for someone to experience. Glad the money was spent to help sheep conservation. There are some concerned that we are now auctioning our largest sheep.
Post by: Buckjunkie on January 25, 2016, 08:43:12 AM
The Montana tag went to Jimmy John Liautaud (aka Jimmy John's Sub Sandwiches). I think this is the fourth or fifth time he has bought that tag. This year was the least he has paid at $305k.
we benefit from this kind of indulgence. It deserves a round of applause.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 25, 2016, 08:50:23 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 25, 2016, 09:29:58 AM
Well dang. I was hoping somebody had eyes on a giant.
:chuckle: "Giant" is all relative, a 180 class Cali IS a giant.
Post by: huntnphool on January 25, 2016, 09:42:58 AM
Good for sheep, watch the price fall next year when Swakane is not included.
And this will be the real litmus test won't it? Will WDFW stick to the plan, or now that they get a taste of the blood $, do their eyes roll back and make up some excuse
("the herd is strong and there are more in there than we had expected") and continue the auction next year?
Post by: Dan-o on January 25, 2016, 09:44:20 AM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:
Money like that gets spent every year on sheep tags. Just never in WA.
Yep a fool and his money are soon departed. :chuckle:
Something tells me that whoever bought the tag is no fool......... or he wouldn't have had $150,000 in spare change hanging around for a sheep hunt.
But, haters gotta hate.
Good luck to the hunter.
Post by: huntnphool on January 25, 2016, 09:45:04 AM
Man I can't help but wonder if somebody doesn't have a giant found already and that's why the price went so high.There are some concerned that we are now auctioning our largest sheep.
Are you included? :dunno:
Post by: jackelope on January 25, 2016, 09:50:02 AM
Man I can't help but wonder if somebody doesn't have a giant found already and that's why the price went so high.There are some concerned that we are now auctioning our largest sheep.
Are you included? :dunno:
It mostly seems to me that we are.
:dunno:
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 25, 2016, 10:45:38 AM
yep :tup:Well dang. I was hoping somebody had eyes on a giant.
:chuckle: "Giant" is all relative, a 180 class Cali IS a giant.
Post by: Rainier10 on January 25, 2016, 11:09:58 AM
Glad to see that kind of coin going to conservation.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2016, 11:23:32 AM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:
Maybe he likes the idea that his money is going to conservation. I have a feeling he knows full well what a sheep is worth. I wish I had the kind of money it takes to donate $150K to conservation.
Post by: coop2424 on January 25, 2016, 11:34:39 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 25, 2016, 11:57:59 AM
I could be wrong on this but isn't this a write off for taxes also? If it is true seems like a win win you get your charitable donation then on top of it you get to help the sheep out and hunt them... Now these people defiantly are in a higher tax bracket where this amount is probably equal to a couple thousand for us..If it is donation, yes. But only to the extent the payment exceeds the fair market value of the item purchased. If the fair market value of a sheep tag is $100K and he paid $150K, he made a $50K donation. If he is in the highest tax bracket the marginal tax rate is 39.6% which means that a $50K donation would reduce his tax liability by about $20K.
Post by: coop2424 on January 25, 2016, 12:09:30 PM
I could be wrong on this but isn't this a write off for taxes also? If it is true seems like a win win you get your charitable donation then on top of it you get to help the sheep out and hunt them... Now these people defiantly are in a higher tax bracket where this amount is probably equal to a couple thousand for us..If it is donation, yes. But only to the extent the payment exceeds the fair market value of the item purchased. If the fair market value of a sheep tag is $100K and he paid $150K, he made a $50K donation. If he is in the highest tax bracket the marginal tax rate is 39.6% which means that a $50K donation would reduce his tax liability by about $20K.
Wouldn't it be the price of the tag if you drew it non resident or resident as the value or is it different since it is different units? I really don't know just was wondering.. Still a lot of money no matter how you look at it..
Post by: Bob33 on January 25, 2016, 12:29:58 PM
The fair market value claimed by the tax filer can be whatever he says it is. The IRS may disagree, and they usually win the disagreements. The IRS may say the fair market value is what he paid for it, since it was an open bidding process.I could be wrong on this but isn't this a write off for taxes also? If it is true seems like a win win you get your charitable donation then on top of it you get to help the sheep out and hunt them... Now these people defiantly are in a higher tax bracket where this amount is probably equal to a couple thousand for us..If it is donation, yes. But only to the extent the payment exceeds the fair market value of the item purchased. If the fair market value of a sheep tag is $100K and he paid $150K, he made a $50K donation. If he is in the highest tax bracket the marginal tax rate is 39.6% which means that a $50K donation would reduce his tax liability by about $20K.
Wouldn't it be the price of the tag if you drew it non resident or resident as the value or is it different since it is different units? I really don't know just was wondering.. Still a lot of money no matter how you look at it..
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2016, 12:34:30 PM
I could be wrong on this but isn't this a write off for taxes also? If it is true seems like a win win you get your charitable donation then on top of it you get to help the sheep out and hunt them... Now these people defiantly are in a higher tax bracket where this amount is probably equal to a couple thousand for us..
You have to spend money to have a write-off. And some or all of that expense may not be deductible, depending on how the IRS feels about the category it's in. But people who don't know about taxes often get confused between the terms tax write-off and tax credit. A tax write-off is when you pay taxes on your income minus the allowed amount of the donation. Someone who makes $1M a year and has $150,000.00 in write-offs will pay full taxes on $850,000.00. A tax credit (which this is not), is when the amount of tax is reduced by the amount of the credit. Someone who makes $1M a year will pay $390,500.00 in taxes. If they have a tax credit for $150,000.00, they will then pay $240,500.00. An example of this is the EITC.
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 25, 2016, 12:59:34 PM
Man I can't help but wonder if somebody doesn't have a giant found already and that's why the price went so high.There are some concerned that we are now auctioning our largest sheep.
Are you included? :dunno:
I think it's a slippery slope when we start pimping out our biggest sheep to the highest bidder. I see it both ways. Maybe something like how Idaho does it with unit 11 every other year. There will be 2 permits out of there this year plus the auction tag. That is 3 rams out of there. Whether we are alright with this or not is up for debate. There is an old old ram that could/should be killed but he only scores 175 or so, so he won't be killed. I'm don't believe there are 3 rams over 180" in that unit so the quality will go down. My assessment of Swak was the ram numbers were at normal levels, not higher than usual. There are some nice 7-8 year old rams that are starting to get there. It certainly will water down the quality on some level. However, giving people opportunity is also very important. There are some old 170 class rams that will die in that unit. Do we let more people hunt and take these rams or let a bunch die on the mountain so someone can get a 185"+ ram every 5 years?
Chelan Butte is giving out 2 ram tags, plus 2 tags for disabled that are <1/2 curl, plus a few youth. This unit has the numbers so no worries. But all those worried about the 5 tags last year can rest easy. Problem is, there are so many sheep your going to have to start capture and relocating them.
The funds go to the department to fund "game management" and not necessarily sheep exclusively:
RCW 77.32.530
Hunting big game—Auction or raffle—Procedure.
(1) The commission in consultation with the director may authorize hunting of big game animals and wild turkeys through auction. The department may conduct the auction for the hunt or contract with a nonprofit wildlife conservation organization to conduct the auction for the hunt.
(2) The commission in consultation with the director may authorize hunting of up to a total of thirty big game animals and wild turkeys per year through raffle. The department may conduct raffles or contract with a nonprofit wildlife conservation organization to conduct raffles for hunting these animals. In consultation with the gambling commission, the director may adopt rules for the implementation of raffles involving hunting.
(3) The director shall establish the procedures for the hunts, which shall require any participants to obtain any required license, permit, or tag. Representatives of the department may participate in the hunt upon the request of the commission to ensure that the animals to be killed are properly identified.
(4) After deducting the expenses of conducting an auction or raffle, any revenues retained by a nonprofit organization, as specified under contract with the department, shall be devoted solely for wildlife conservation, consistent with its qualification as a bona fide nonprofit organization for wildlife conservation.
(5) The department's share of revenues from auctions and raffles shall be deposited in the state wildlife account created in RCW 77.12.170. The revenues shall be used to improve game management and shall supplement, rather than replace, other funds budgeted for management of game species. The commission may solicit input from groups or individuals with special interest in and expertise on a species in determining how to use these revenues.
(6) A nonprofit wildlife conservation organization may petition the commission to authorize an auction or raffle for a special hunt for big game animals and wild turkeys.
Post by: JDHasty on January 25, 2016, 01:12:44 PM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:
My inclination is that you don't know all who participate and bid up the price to $150K and you do not know this individual or what his motivation was in purchasing the tag.
I have a good friend who is one who has participated in sheep tag auctions, and participating in tag auctions was ON TOP OF money he donated outright in support of wild sheep conservation.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 25, 2016, 01:16:04 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 25, 2016, 01:21:34 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 25, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
Two things come to mind . first if they do allow a auction tag they shouldn't get to hunt before the guy with twenty plus preference points . the second is so many members on here live and breath these sheep so when someone draws they get plenty of help harvesting the largest ram . I'd venture to bet if a couple guys bit there tongues a bit some of those older 170 class rams would get harvested . I understand the addiction but believe it will effect the quality of the rams .
:yeah:
Post by: JDHasty on January 25, 2016, 01:25:32 PM
Two things come to mind . first if they do allow a auction tag they shouldn't get to hunt before the guy with twenty plus preference points . the second is so many members on here live and breath these sheep so when someone draws they get plenty of help harvesting the largest ram . I'd venture to bet if a couple guys bit there tongues a bit some of those older 170 class rams would get harvested . I understand the addiction but believe it will effect the quality of the rams .
:yeah:
:yeah: I'll second that
Post by: shanevg on January 25, 2016, 01:28:35 PM
Good for sheep, watch the price fall next year when Swakane is not included.
And this will be the real litmus test won't it? Will WDFW stick to the plan, or now that they get a taste of the blood $, do their eyes roll back and make up some excuse
("the herd is strong and there are more in there than we had expected") and continue the auction next year?
What is "the plan"? Is Swakane not an option next year?
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 25, 2016, 01:28:48 PM
Post by: JDHasty on January 25, 2016, 02:04:50 PM
This is very much like African trophy hunting in a great many ways. I've noticed that many of the people who oppose auction tags also support African trophy hunting. Here are some points. First, just the sheer amount of money going into sheep conservation is huge. Secondly, when you start thinking that his is taking your opportunity away, thing again. When you improve habitat and have the money to move sheep around, you make the herd bigger and that will translate into increased tags, which translates into increased hunter opportunities for the rest of us. These guys spend a lot of money on the peripherals - gear, guns and ammo (more conservation money), guides, hotels, restaurants, gas, sunflower seeds, you name it. They're employing lots of people for one tag. So, when you say selling these tags at auction is a slippery slope and decreases hunter opportunity for us regular guys, you're not looking at the big picture.
That is the way I look at it, but trying to convince others to see it that way has not been easy.
Post by: huntnphool on January 25, 2016, 02:14:27 PM
the second is so many members on here live and breath these sheep so when someone draws they get plenty of help harvesting the largest ram . I'd venture to bet if a couple guys bit there tongues a bit some of those older 170 class rams would get harvested . I understand the addiction but believe it will effect the quality of the rams .
That's rich coming from a guy that had no scruples about asking for help/info from those very same guys when you drew your tag! ;)
As I recall, you have been out helping the South Central Raffle tag winner do that very same thing as well.
Food for thought Corey. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on January 25, 2016, 02:37:37 PM
Good for sheep, watch the price fall next year when Swakane is not included.
And this will be the real litmus test won't it? Will WDFW stick to the plan, or now that they get a taste of the blood $, do their eyes roll back and make up some excuse
("the herd is strong and there are more in there than we had expected") and continue the auction next year?
What is "the plan"? Is Swakane not an option next year?
Swakane was added as "huntable" for 1 year only.
Post by: JDHasty on January 25, 2016, 02:50:38 PM
Wow who was the fool? No sheep is worth $150,000 anywhere. :twocents:Several would disagree. $150K is a bargain compared to Montana's bighorn tag.
www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2013/feb/15/record-480k-bid-montana-bighorn-tag/)
The bargain of he century compared to this:
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/kevin-abosch-sells-photograph-of-potato-for-15-million-20160125-gmd6s4.html
Post by: coachcw on January 25, 2016, 03:58:05 PM
Post by: Timberstalker on January 25, 2016, 04:01:07 PM
I hope he kills a pig.
Post by: coachcw on January 25, 2016, 04:03:08 PM
Post by: huntrustdog on January 25, 2016, 07:02:41 PM
Post by: BKMFR on January 25, 2016, 09:24:17 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 26, 2016, 09:38:45 AM
Come on phool you know what I'm saying . We are talking about a very fragile herd of sheep with a couple large rams . I'm not throwing a pick axe in anyones back I'm just saying what we know right . I don't blame anyone for wanting to be part of a sheep hunt or any hunt for that matter . But we have to live with the outcome of taking the largest rams from the mountain . Its very tough taking a old 170 ram when you know there is a 185 around . I'm a piker compared to these heavy hitters a couple grand worth of raffle tickets isn't 25k worth or 150k worth of a auction tag , Be assured If I had deep pockets and could afford to play that game I would in a second . we are on the same side here . That 150k will go along ways and is a small price for the herd to pay if it keeps many off the highway.
It's not a fragile herd. It's very stable and has been for a while. The fence helped with that. That being said, I won't apologize about helping a good guy get an 11.5 year old ram, maybe the oldest in the unit, and likely in his last year or so instead of a 6.5 year old 175" ram that is just starting to come into his prime. I think most experts would agree that taking the oldest ram out and leaving the 6-8 year old rams to grow is the best course for management of a unit.
Post by: Buckjunkie on January 26, 2016, 11:29:59 AM
Post by: coachcw on January 26, 2016, 02:02:37 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 26, 2016, 02:20:32 PM
Right Pope but we have to agree that with one tag most likely the biggest of big get hunted . I we want to fully benefit and harvest those 170 class rams then we need to add tags . I'm right with you in harvesting some of the older rams . I would never fault a guy that's passionate about sheep for helping someone out , but it comes with a cost right ? adding tags is logical but it would have to affect the number of larger rams . Like you said the reality is if one tag is given out old rams will die off .
You are kidding right? Addition by subtraction?
You actually believe that giving out more tags in a unit will result in older class rams surviving longer? How's that theory working out in Clemens and Manson? :o
I will reiterate my last post addressed at you. While you were out helping the raffle tag winner, you were not looking to perpetuate the herd and older class rams, you were looking to tag the largest, highest scoring ram in the unit. So please explain how that is any different than what you are railing against by us helping those that ask?
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
Post by: kentrek on January 26, 2016, 02:23:02 PM
I think that's what coach is getting at
Post by: huntnphool on January 26, 2016, 02:25:16 PM
By shooting a lesser ram the old ram lives another day
I think that's what coach is getting at
Yeah, and by giving out more tags, the odds increase for rams to live longer right?....lmao :chuckle:
Post by: kentrek on January 26, 2016, 02:39:39 PM
By shooting a lesser ram the old ram lives another day
I think that's what coach is getting at
Yeah, and by giving out more tags, the odds increase for rams to live longer right?....lmao :chuckle:
Don't ask me, I'm not a sheep guy at all...I'd assume people would "value" it less and be less likely to hire guides in order to get the oil critter. ..kind of like people are with moose
Post by: Rainier10 on January 26, 2016, 02:42:56 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 26, 2016, 02:53:51 PM
I think the only way to harvest the long in the tooth 165-170 rams that are just not going to get any bigger and die of old age is use a hunt coordinator from WDFW. That way you would give more opportunity and harvest the rams before they just die. Of course that would have to be closely monitored and some years you could harvest one or two older rams and others there would be no extra opportunity.
Happened this past season on the Butte. :tup:
Post by: Dan-o on January 26, 2016, 03:12:55 PM
I'be as pumped shooting an old 160 as a prime 170+.
Post by: The scout on January 26, 2016, 03:23:04 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 26, 2016, 03:32:50 PM
:yeah: but I think that is how most people who are lucky enough to draw a sheep tag, the guys that have so much money invested to better the herds are the ones most likely to shoot the biggest ram in the herd
I would rather like to see the best tag (not restricted) go to the lucky guy that draws it, and leave the "restricted" opportunities go to auction. If the state wants to auction off a couple old rams then fine, but the best tag should go to the draw.
I don't think someone should be able to "buy" the largest ram in each unit. That being said, I don't begrudge those that are taking advantage of the opportunity, I blame WDFW, I do not agree with them selling off our largest rams.
"Don't hate the player, hate the game."
Post by: Rainier10 on January 26, 2016, 03:33:04 PM
I'm not a sheep guy either, bu that seems like a good idea.Same here, a 160" ram would be the biggest one that ever went on my wall. I might even do a full body mount just because they are so cool and then hope to get drawn for a ewe someday and make a scene.
I'be as pumped shooting an old 160 as a prime 170+.
Post by: Rainier10 on January 26, 2016, 03:35:04 PM
Now there is an idea that I could really get behind. I bet you would see raffle ticket sales go even higher as I would assume that would be an unrestricted tag also. Some lucky dog is gonna win it.:yeah: but I think that is how most people who are lucky enough to draw a sheep tag, the guys that have so much money invested to better the herds are the ones most likely to shoot the biggest ram in the herd
I would rather like to see the best tag (not restricted) go to the lucky guy that draws it, and leave the "restricted" opportunities go to auction. If the state wants to auction off a couple old rams then fine, but the best tag should go to the draw.
I don't think someone should be able to "buy" the largest ram in each unit. That being said, I don't begrudge those that are taking advantage of the opportunity, I blame WDFW, I do not agree with them selling off our largest rams.
"Don't hate the player, hate the game."
Post by: coachcw on January 26, 2016, 04:38:34 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 26, 2016, 04:43:56 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on January 26, 2016, 04:45:29 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 26, 2016, 05:31:50 PM
My question for Pope is with three tags being given out would the herd become fragile ? In your opinion would a two to three year program of allowing two to three rams a year be the right move ? Or should we be happy the way it is and just take one premium ram a year keeping it world class and allowing rams to die of old age and maybe selling the horns at auction to benefit management ? Your the guy with the best knowledge and your opinion should go along way .
You can't micro manage it too much. Fact is, old rams will just have to die on the mountain. There were no older rams out there than 4-chip but there is one other ram the same age that is about 176", class 4, and a nice trophy. I hope he is harvested. Fact is, most times a 6-7 year old ram that hasn't broomed scores better than older rams that have broke off. Once they get to about 10 years old they have made for the length they have broken off in length/mass and start to outscore the long 6-7 year olds. I didn't agree with 3 this year and thought 2 was the max but WDFW did the survey and they think this is appropriate. I think it's in the range of appropriate and they are really good bios making that decision. The thought always was to offer 2 or so tags but that could never be done because opening it up to 2 in the past system meant that as many as 5 rams could be taken out of there. The new system will help with that. It's always adjusted from year to year so we don't need to decide on next year until then.
I like the idea of keeping every unit premium but the fact is us hunters will all "die on the mountain" before we'll ever draw a tag at this rate. We need to create opportunity as well and that is a mandate when we work on these seasons. If the quality goes from 178"-185" rams down to 174-178" rams then so be it. If someone isn't happy with a 175" ram, they got problems.
I have now learned that 2 rams got hit by a car more than likely. One is dead and the other is limping around with a broken leg. WDFW knows about it and are going to let "nature take it's course." But we should take some of these proceeds and get the fence back up... We just lost these 2 rams who are both mature and who knows how many more by hunting season where 3 more will be harvested. Fixing a simple fence might mean 1 or 2 of us a year can hunt sheep there with more opportunity if we can stop the road deaths once again...
I think you are being a bit hypocritical Corey... :P
Post by: klickman on January 26, 2016, 07:22:52 PM
Two things come to mind . first if they do allow a auction tag they shouldn't get to hunt before the guy with twenty plus preference points . the second is so many members on here live and breath these sheep so when someone draws they get plenty of help harvesting the largest ram . I'd venture to bet if a couple guys bit there tongues a bit some of those older 170 class rams would get harvested . I understand the addiction but believe it will effect the quality of the rams .
Did you wait or did you hunt Sept 1 when you drew the raffle tag? Did you wait to help the Auction tag holder until after people had a chance hunting the bulls/bucks/rams they had been scouting all Summer? Were you worried about quality in a herd when you helped him shoot two monster bulls? You and the auction tag holder benefited from people not biting their tongues.
It sucks when an auction/raffle tag holder can swoop in and shoot an animal out from under you. There is no way someone will pay $150k for a tag they are second on the list to hunt. One of the biggest reasons these tags bring in so much money is the opportunity to have first shot. You won't have big money without the best opportunity.
Post by: teanawayslayer on January 26, 2016, 07:36:27 PM
:yeah:Two things come to mind . first if they do allow a auction tag they shouldn't get to hunt before the guy with twenty plus preference points . the second is so many members on here live and breath these sheep so when someone draws they get plenty of help harvesting the largest ram . I'd venture to bet if a couple guys bit there tongues a bit some of those older 170 class rams would get harvested . I understand the addiction but believe it will effect the quality of the rams .
Did you wait or did you hunt Sept 1 when you drew the raffle tag? Did you wait to help the Auction tag holder until after people had a chance hunting the bulls/bucks/rams they had been scouting all Summer? Were you worried about quality in a herd when you helped him shoot two monster bulls? You and the auction tag holder benefited from people not biting their tongues.
It sucks when an auction/raffle tag holder can swoop in and shoot an animal out from under you. There is no way someone will pay $150k for a tag they are second on the list to hunt. One of the biggest reasons these tags bring in so much money is the opportunity to have first shot. You won't have big money without the best opportunity.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 26, 2016, 07:42:09 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 26, 2016, 07:52:34 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 26, 2016, 08:01:43 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 26, 2016, 08:06:27 PM
Post by: grundy53 on January 26, 2016, 08:30:01 PM
Wow I never helped a single auction tag holder fill a elk tag nor have I ever met the man or men . I hunted sheep in October and took a decent representation of the species by my self and packed it out by myself . Lots of help full members gave me info on areas to look for good bulls . I put on 200 miles on my boots and hunted 92 days enjoying every minute of it . I have no problem helping someone out if they are willing to work for it. I have never hand feed anyone a bull and never shared info on anyone' else's throphy find . Just to clarify ! I hunted hard with shootem when he drew the raffle he bought ten tickets . We hunted hard for 45 days he earned everything .I wouldn't let it get to you. I think most of the folks on here know what a generous/helpful guy you are.
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: coachcw on January 26, 2016, 08:36:27 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 26, 2016, 08:40:48 PM
Yeah trust me if I guided some one for the going bag of cash I'd have a crap ton of raffles in the hat ......maybe 25 k worth lol.Food for thought...........just sayin :chuckle:
Post by: Timberstalker on January 26, 2016, 08:43:26 PM
Post by: Dan-o on January 26, 2016, 09:00:09 PM
Wow I never helped a single auction tag holder fill a elk tag nor have I ever met the man or men . I hunted sheep in October and took a decent representation of the species by my self and packed it out by myself . Lots of help full members gave me info on areas to look for good bulls . I put on 200 miles on my boots and hunted 92 days enjoying every minute of it . I have no problem helping someone out if they are willing to work for it. I have never hand feed anyone a bull and never shared info on anyone' else's throphy find . Just to clarify ! I hunted hard with shootem when he drew the raffle he bought ten tickets . We hunted hard for 45 days he earned everything .I wouldn't let it get to you. I think most of the folks on here know what a generous/helpful guy you are.
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
:yeah:
Post by: jackelope on January 26, 2016, 10:39:37 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 27, 2016, 09:49:27 AM
I'm hypocritical for wanting two sheep tags in swakane , and I've apparently be hand fed. by many . you know one part of me wants to say screw it enjoy the sight boys . the other side wants to defend myself .
Nobody said you were hypocritical for wanting two sheep tags in Swakane, so let's not get it twisted coach, you are hypocritical for making this statement.
the second is so many members on here live and breath these sheep so when someone draws they get plenty of help harvesting the largest ram . I'd venture to bet if a couple guys bit there tongues a bit some of those older 170 class rams would get harvested . I understand the addiction but believe it will effect the quality of the rams .
And yet you have helped raffle winners do the very same thing.
Are we all supposed to just "bite our tongues" when someone asks for help? That would make sites like this pretty useless would it not!
We help when we are asked, not only for sheep but deer and elk as well.........just like you. ;)
"People in glass houses should not throw stones".............just sayin. ;)
Post by: rtspring on January 27, 2016, 10:20:32 AM
Two things come to mind . first if they do allow a auction tag they shouldn't get to hunt before the guy with twenty plus preference points . the second is so many members on here live and breath these sheep so when someone draws they get plenty of help harvesting the largest ram . I'd venture to bet if a couple guys bit there tongues a bit some of those older 170 class rams would get harvested . I understand the addiction but believe it will effect the quality of the rams .
Did you wait or did you hunt Sept 1 when you drew the raffle tag? Did you wait to help the Auction tag holder until after people had a chance hunting the bulls/bucks/rams they had been scouting all Summer? Were you worried about quality in a herd when you helped him shoot two monster bulls? You and the auction tag holder benefited from people not biting their tongues.
It sucks when an auction/raffle tag holder can swoop in and shoot an animal out from under you. There is no way someone will pay $150k for a tag they are second on the list to hunt. One of the biggest reasons these tags bring in so much money is the opportunity to have first shot. You won't have big money without the best opportunity.
Open mouth Insert foot!!! Your post is about as stupid as voting for Hilary to be our next president.. Easy to sit back and judge someone on a computer screen havibg never met them in person. It takes s special kind of stupid to question Coach on just about anything hunting related..
I can promise you nothing is harvested for Free with Coach!! You damn well earn your way or you are sent to the localy sanitary waste disposal site in a quick hurry! Sure he would give a stranger the shirt off his back, but their are no shortcuts with Coach!!
Go on a day hunting hike with him! Just a day! 75 percent of the members on here would not make it till noon on that hike!!
So I dont know where your tree barking came from but you might wanna look at the tree before you try pissing all over it!!!
Coach has done nothing but great things for people on this site including me! It is an insult to him snd slot of us for you to accuse him of doing these things. Bet your arse Coach dont play BS games when it comes to hunting! Lace your damn boots up and prepare to work your butt off!!!
Thats a fact jack!!
Post by: coachcw on January 27, 2016, 10:22:47 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 27, 2016, 10:34:54 AM
I thought we where talking about the swakane herd ? just saying . last time I checked that area wasn't included in the raffle tag ( I wish it was ) . I really think we agree though that harvesting a couple nice older rams would be a good thing and really theres only two ways to do that right , inless the tribes get involved . I will bow out on this since apparently I struck a nerve . we tend to agree on many things and for proper management .
See you soon, we'll chat then. ;)
Post by: coachcw on January 27, 2016, 10:38:57 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on January 27, 2016, 12:05:02 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on January 27, 2016, 12:23:39 PM
I thought we where talking about the swakane herd ? just saying . last time I checked that area wasn't included in the raffle tag ( I wish it was ) . I really think we agree though that harvesting a couple nice older rams would be a good thing and really theres only two ways to do that right , inless the tribes get involved . I will bow out on this since apparently I struck a nerve . we tend to agree on many things and for proper management .
See you soon, we'll chat then. ;)
Were all friends giving each other crap on here instead of by text message and everyone thinks the thread has gone to hell and we are seriously fighting...lol. Let's have a beer soon or at the banquet Corey and Rob!
Post by: boneaddict on January 27, 2016, 12:28:00 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 27, 2016, 12:48:00 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 27, 2016, 12:50:08 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 27, 2016, 12:59:07 PM
You sort of answered my question. I wondered how many tags it would be if they opened it up for auction. Between the raffles, and tribe. Sounds like those rules are different now?
Rules used to be that if more than 1 tag were issued in the unit, then that unit would also be open for the auction and raffle tag holders. WDFW has changed this rule, effective starting this year, where they can now dictate the the exact number of tags issued per unit.
So, with the draw tag being issued, (tag 1) and auction tag, (tag 2) last year it would have been also opened up to the raffle tags. However, with the rule change starting this year, they can limit it solely to those two tags and not include the raffles.
Now, not to muddy the water so to speak, but this will also open up other avenues that may or may not be favorable to some.
For instance, with this new rule change, WDFW can limit branched bull opportunities in certain units...let's say 334 for example :rolleyes: .....yet include it in the auction/raffle tags going forward. :stirthepot:
Post by: Rainier10 on January 27, 2016, 01:04:29 PM
This thing just got back on track. That is pretty funny though.
Post by: huntnphool on January 27, 2016, 01:13:19 PM
I thought we where talking about the swakane herd ? just saying . last time I checked that area wasn't included in the raffle tag ( I wish it was ) . I really think we agree though that harvesting a couple nice older rams would be a good thing and really theres only two ways to do that right , inless the tribes get involved . I will bow out on this since apparently I struck a nerve . we tend to agree on many things and for proper management .
See you soon, we'll chat then. ;)
Were all friends giving each other crap on here instead of by text message and everyone thinks the thread has gone to hell and we are seriously fighting...lol. Let's have a beer soon or at the banquet Corey and Rob!
I suppose we should have made that clear early on. :chuckle:
For those that don't know, we have been friends a long time, hiking the hills in Montana together many years before this site was even thought of. This same conversation would have, and likely will continue in a pub over beer and pizza except with a few laughs and f-you's thrown at each other. :chuckle:
Agreed, the internet is not always easy to distinguish emotions, and without the ability to use uncensored emoji's, :chuckle: the lack of seriousness is not easily read. :tup:
Post by: huntnphool on January 27, 2016, 01:14:35 PM
Oh no you didn't just :stirthepot:
This thing just got back on track. That is pretty funny though.
:chuckle: I thought some of you may find that new rule "interesting". ;)
Post by: Gringo31 on January 27, 2016, 01:20:10 PM
Post by: coachcw on January 27, 2016, 01:45:55 PM