Post by: kirkl on February 06, 2016, 01:15:04 PM
https://m.facebook.com/HuntingGPSmaps/photos/a.209779879039560.64446.117492868268262/1286389848045219/?type=3&source=48
Post by: Ridgerunner on February 06, 2016, 01:23:17 PM
Post by: Falcon on February 06, 2016, 01:47:12 PM
I believe he had raffle permit that year.
Post by: MLBowhunting on February 06, 2016, 02:28:16 PM
Post by: elkaholic123 on February 06, 2016, 03:41:45 PM
Post by: jackelope on February 06, 2016, 06:17:05 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.
His dad has the tag this year.
Post by: Wazukie on February 06, 2016, 06:41:35 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.
Who in the world, in their right mind, spends that kinda money to kill something :dunno:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on February 06, 2016, 06:43:25 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.
Who in the world, in their right mind, spends that kinda money to kill something :dunno:
People with a lot more pennies than us. :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on February 06, 2016, 06:57:12 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.
Who in the world, in their right mind, spends that kinda money to kill something :dunno:
How do you think we have all these sheep all over the state to hunt?
Shouldn't really need to say anything more than see below.
http://www.washingtonwsf.org/projects.htm
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160207%2Fb61201741f669940b1f98bf172fe0426.jpg&hash=e68400511d6ff79556136c8ca0e6924ddc0def34)
Post by: bearpaw on February 06, 2016, 07:56:41 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.
Who in the world, in their right mind, spends that kinda money to kill something :dunno:
How do you think we have all these sheep all over the state to hunt?
Shouldn't really need to say anything more than see below.
http://www.washingtonwsf.org/projects.htm
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160207%2Fb61201741f669940b1f98bf172fe0426.jpg&hash=e68400511d6ff79556136c8ca0e6924ddc0def34)
Exactly, these hunting groups are putting a lot of money into wildlife and that really benefits all hunters! :tup:
Post by: deerhuntr4885 on February 06, 2016, 09:36:31 PM
Post by: X-Force on February 06, 2016, 09:58:43 PM
I don' t mind the tags, I just hate the idea of being able to buy your way into the record books. Or in this case...buy the whole damn book!
I just have to ask... Why?
Look at the money being put into sheep in this state. Books might mean a lot to a guy spending big $$$ but to me it just means people with means are making a conscience effort to protect and grow big horns in Washington. It would be nice if we had genetics to bring Montana type money but we don't.
Post by: Antlershed on February 06, 2016, 10:08:11 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.How does he have 5 sheep in WA? Does he just "buy" the raffles, or has he had the auction tag that many times? That's impressive!
Post by: REHJWA on February 06, 2016, 10:12:53 PM
so much for OIL....Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.How does he have 5 sheep in WA? Does he just "buy" the raffles, or has he had the auction tag that many times? That's impressive!
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on February 06, 2016, 10:21:29 PM
so much for OIL....Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.How does he have 5 sheep in WA? Does he just "buy" the raffles, or has he had the auction tag that many times? That's impressive!
When you have lots of pennies OIL doesn't pertain to you. >:(
Post by: huntnphool on February 06, 2016, 10:22:29 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.How does he have 5 sheep in WA? Does he just "buy" the raffles, or has he had the auction tag that many times? That's impressive!
You will notice several people buy the raffles each year, I really wish they would cap them at 5 per Wild ID.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on February 06, 2016, 10:32:03 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.How does he have 5 sheep in WA? Does he just "buy" the raffles, or has he had the auction tag that many times? That's impressive!
You will notice several people buy the raffles each year, I really wish they would cap them at 5 per Wild ID.
I think the raffle and auction rags should be one and done, plenty off rich people out there to compete for them without the same people getting them ever year. Plus giving the average joe a chance to win the raffle tags. :twocents:
Post by: RadSav on February 06, 2016, 10:32:31 PM
Not many years left for me to keep up the hope of being lucky. Not even sure how hard I could get after it if my luck changed this year. But if I were to die sheep or goat hunting as hard as I can...it would be a pretty good day :tup:
Post by: jackelope on February 06, 2016, 11:30:04 PM
Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.How does he have 5 sheep in WA? Does he just "buy" the raffles, or has he had the auction tag that many times? That's impressive!
You will notice several people buy the raffles each year, I really wish they would cap them at 5 per Wild ID.
I think the raffle and auction rags should be one and done, plenty off rich people out there to compete for them without the same people getting them ever year. Plus giving the average joe a chance to win the raffle tags. :twocents:
You'd run out of buyers in Washington in a few years. There's a reason the same people buy them every year. That or you'd have guys like you and I running the auction all the way up to like a hundred bucks because everyone else has already had their auction permit. There's no money in that now.
I am a huge fan of limiting raffle purchases. That'd be great. Cap at 5 tickets per person, or even just one.
:tup:
Post by: RadSav on February 07, 2016, 12:33:05 AM
Cap at 5 tickets per person, or even just one.
We already have it limited at one for the OIL lottery. Doesn't make much sense to have two lotteries, does it? If we add one more tag to the lottery revenue stays the same. Raffle adds another $300-400K to the revenue stream. Limit to five and it drops by more than half barely covering the expenditures.
Post by: huntnphool on February 07, 2016, 12:45:04 AM
Cap at 5 tickets per person, or even just one.
We already have it limited at one for the OIL lottery. Doesn't make much sense to have two lotteries, does it? If we add one more tag to the lottery revenue stays the same. Raffle adds another $300-400K to the revenue stream. Limit to five and it drops by more than half barely covering the expenditures.
There are many, myself included, that realize the raffle is generally won by those with deep pockets, buying hundreds of tickets. For that reason there are a lot of us that don't participate at all. Of course there are always the example or two that luck out, but clearly the odds are in favor of those that purchase hundreds of tickets.
I believe that if it were limited to 5 tickets per ID, more people would participate, and make up the difference lost from one or two people purchasing hundreds. :dunno:
Post by: Romulus1297 on February 07, 2016, 12:55:06 AM
Post by: huntnphool on February 07, 2016, 01:01:48 AM
Why don't you all stop crying like a bunch of babies, 😭 I've met Casey Brooks & he's the most down to earth guy! So why don't you guys dry your eyes! By the way, have you seen his Chelan Butte Ram? It's a BEAUTY! Chow, Romulus's Wife 😚
Who's crying? I don't see anybody bad mouthing Casey or blaming him for playing the game set up by WDFW, I'm pretty sure that everyone here would do the same if they had the means. :dunno:
That doesn't mean some of us wouldn't like to see the game changed is all.
Post by: RadSav on February 07, 2016, 03:34:51 AM
I believe that if it were limited to 5 tickets per ID, more people would participate, and make up the difference lost from one or two people purchasing hundreds. :dunno:
I suppose that could be. Though you also run a high risk of making the raffle odds as bad if not worse than the general permit odds. Once those odds get turned upside down how many will decide to buy? Is that an acceptable risk for the state? Seems all we would be doing is decreasing our personal odds just so the rich guys don't get an advantage. Sort of a Cutting off the nose to spite the face scenario, isn't it?
Post by: bearpaw on February 07, 2016, 07:28:34 AM
The purpose of the limited-entry OIL is to give everyone 1 chance at drawing a tag and it's OIL so every gets more of a chance at getting their one successful hunt. The auctions tags are there to make money for conservation, those tags need to go to the highest bidder so we the people get the most out of that auctioned off tag. The raffle tags are there to make money for conservation too, the way it works everyone who wants a chance gets a chance, if you limit the number of chances a person can buy then you are defeating the purpose.
Millions come in for conservation from these auctions and raffles, we are getting the most conservation dollars for the few animals taken. In the end there is more wildlife in the field for everyone to hunt by getting the most we can for these auction and raffle tags. I would like to see them all selling for twice as much as they do now. Combined with donations from sporting groups like WSF, RMEF, and MDF more transplants and habitat improvements could occur resulting in more animals available to the average hunter.
Post by: Antlershed on February 07, 2016, 07:47:21 AM
Why don't you all stop crying like a bunch of babies, 😭 I've met Casey Brooks & he's the most down to earth guy! So why don't you guys dry your eyes! By the way, have you seen his Chelan Butte Ram? It's a BEAUTY! Chow, Romulus's Wife 😚Certainly no crying here, I was just asking the question because I was curious. I have no problem with the Auction tags. That's a lot of revenue generated for a good cause.
However, I, like many others, don't participate in the raffles usually because of the fact they can be bought. Not hating the guys who do it, I just choose to spend my money elsewhere. :twocents:
Post by: Skillet on February 07, 2016, 08:09:25 AM
Raffle = more expensive buy in, with increased odds vs drawing depending on how much you want to spend
Auction = most expensive buy in, with 100% odds of winning if you spend enough
Post by: jackelope on February 07, 2016, 08:30:22 AM
Cap at 5 tickets per person, or even just one.
We already have it limited at one for the OIL lottery. Doesn't make much sense to have two lotteries, does it? If we add one more tag to the lottery revenue stays the same. Raffle adds another $300-400K to the revenue stream. Limit to five and it drops by more than half barely covering the expenditures.
Did you factor in all the people that would get back into buying raffle tickets when you calculated that? I betcha I know at least 5 people who would, and probably could come up with a dozen on my own with a little looking.
Post by: bearpaw on February 07, 2016, 08:42:47 AM
WDFW Drawing = everybody has equally horrible odds
Raffle = more expensive buy in, with increased odds vs drawing depending on how much you want to spend
Auction = most expensive buy in, with 100% odds of winning if you spend enough
:yeah:
I had a guy from CA hunt with me this last fall who bought one raffle tag in ID for mule deer and got it. The previous year I had a different guy from CA who bought $200 of raffle tags in ID that drew. My point is that everyone who buys even 1 tag has a chance but if ID limited the number of chances the other guy wouldn't have given ID $200!
Cap at 5 tickets per person, or even just one.
We already have it limited at one for the OIL lottery. Doesn't make much sense to have two lotteries, does it? If we add one more tag to the lottery revenue stays the same. Raffle adds another $300-400K to the revenue stream. Limit to five and it drops by more than half barely covering the expenditures.
Did you factor in all the people that would get back into buying raffle tickets when you calculated that? I betcha I know at least 5 people who would, and probably could come up with a dozen on my own with a little looking.
If it was possible, WDFW should take two identical raffle tags and see which way produces the most funds! BUT, I don't think WDFW has a choice, aren't these raffle rules dictated by legislative language?
Post by: jackelope on February 07, 2016, 08:50:12 AM
Post by: Antlershed on February 07, 2016, 09:01:03 AM
WDFW Drawing = everybody has equally horrible odds
Raffle = more expensive buy in, with increased odds vs drawing depending on how much you want to spend
Auction = most expensive buy in, with 100% odds of winning if you spend enough
:yeah:
I had a guy from CA hunt with me this last fall who bought one raffle tag in ID for mule deer and got it. The previous year I had a different guy from CA who bought $200 of raffle tags in ID that drew. My point is that everyone who buys even 1 tag has a chance but if ID limited the number of chances the other guy wouldn't have given ID $200!
I think the unknown though, is if it was capped, would 6 new guys have joined in and contributed $50 each?
Would be interesting to see the comparison in revenues if they did a trial year where they capped one or two.
Post by: huntnphool on February 07, 2016, 09:08:07 AM
WDFW Drawing = everybody has equally horrible odds
Raffle = more expensive buy in, with increased odds vs drawing depending on how much you want to spend
Auction = most expensive buy in, with 100% odds of winning if you spend enough
:yeah:
I had a guy from CA hunt with me this last fall who bought one raffle tag in ID for mule deer and got it. The previous year I had a different guy from CA who bought $200 of raffle tags in ID that drew. My point is that everyone who buys even 1 tag has a chance but if ID limited the number of chances the other guy wouldn't have given ID $200!
I think the unknown though, is if it was capped, would 6 new guys have joined in and contributed $50 each?
Would be interesting to see the comparison in revenues if they did a trial year where they capped one or two.
Does anyone have a chart that shows itemized raffle revenue per year?
Post by: 3dvapor on February 07, 2016, 09:38:31 AM
Post by: bobcat on February 07, 2016, 11:19:32 AM
South Central - 627 tickets - $17 each - total $10,659
Blacktail Deer - 91 tickets - $6 each - total $546
Eastern Elk - 374 tickets - $6 each - total $2,244
Western Elk - 91 tickets - $6 each - total $546
Northeast - 29 tickets - $17 each - total $493
Southeast - 80 tickets - $22.50 each - total $1,800
Total for all: $16,288
That's not a bad price for an elk tag, a mule deer tag, and a bighorn sheep tag, especially when you get a 4 month season for all of those tags.
Post by: bearpaw on February 07, 2016, 11:31:25 AM
This thread got me curious as to how much some of the raffle ticket winners are spending. So I looked up the winner of the South Central raffle this year, and this is what he bought:
South Central - 627 tickets - $17 each - total $10,659
Blacktail Deer - 91 tickets - $6 each - total $546
Eastern Elk - 374 tickets - $6 each - total $2,244
Western Elk - 91 tickets - $6 each - total $546
Northeast - 29 tickets - $17 each - total $493
Southeast - 80 tickets - $22.50 each - total $1,800
Total for all: $16,288
That's not a bad price for an elk tag, a mule deer tag, and a bighorn sheep tag, especially when you get a 4 month season for all of those tags.
You are right, that was a deal, but it's a gamble, You might not get any of them! :dunno:
Post by: westside Elkhunter on February 13, 2016, 10:33:00 AM
I have met Casey a couple times. He is very down to earth. And he has had both. So does Casey or his dad have the auction tag this year?Same guy That bought the tag this year for $150.000.00 he has 5 of the top ten archery sheep in WA.How does he have 5 sheep in WA? Does he just "buy" the raffles, or has he had the auction tag that many times? That's impressive!
Post by: jackelope on February 13, 2016, 11:17:53 AM
Post by: ipkus on February 13, 2016, 11:20:33 AM
I have a little different take on the whole process, I think the limited-entry, raffles, and auctions, are being done pretty well.
The purpose of the limited-entry OIL is to give everyone 1 chance at drawing a tag and it's OIL so every gets more of a chance at getting their one successful hunt. The auctions tags are there to make money for conservation, those tags need to go to the highest bidder so we the people get the most out of that auctioned off tag. The raffle tags are there to make money for conservation too, the way it works everyone who wants a chance gets a chance, if you limit the number of chances a person can buy then you are defeating the purpose.
Millions come in for conservation from these auctions and raffles, we are getting the most conservation dollars for the few animals taken. In the end there is more wildlife in the field for everyone to hunt by getting the most we can for these auction and raffle tags. I would like to see them all selling for twice as much as they do now. Combined with donations from sporting groups like WSF, RMEF, and MDF more transplants and habitat improvements could occur resulting in more animals available to the average hunter.
Can you define conservation as it pertains to WDFW? My understanding is none of the money from either the raffle or auction tags goes to specific species, it is simply deposited directly into the wildlife account. If I'm correct, there is very little (if any) conservation gained from this revenue, it simply feeds the massively top heavy bureaucratic machine that is WDFW.
I could be convinced to be a little more on board (I am currently not) with the existence of auction tags if the funds were actually dedicated to specific conservation efforts like they are in many other states. To have them simply supplement the wildlife account (i.e. WDFW general fund) is NOT conservation.
Post by: notsosneaky on April 23, 2016, 01:46:51 PM
Post by: Bushcraft on April 26, 2016, 11:42:41 AM
I have a little different take on the whole process, I think the limited-entry, raffles, and auctions, are being done pretty well.
The purpose of the limited-entry OIL is to give everyone 1 chance at drawing a tag and it's OIL so every gets more of a chance at getting their one successful hunt. The auctions tags are there to make money for conservation, those tags need to go to the highest bidder so we the people get the most out of that auctioned off tag. The raffle tags are there to make money for conservation too, the way it works everyone who wants a chance gets a chance, if you limit the number of chances a person can buy then you are defeating the purpose.
Millions come in for conservation from these auctions and raffles, we are getting the most conservation dollars for the few animals taken. In the end there is more wildlife in the field for everyone to hunt by getting the most we can for these auction and raffle tags. I would like to see them all selling for twice as much as they do now. Combined with donations from sporting groups like WSF, RMEF, and MDF more transplants and habitat improvements could occur resulting in more animals available to the average hunter.
Dale hit the nail on the head.
Instead of getting upset about these sorts of things, I wish people would get more personally involved with hands-on wildlife conservation and legislative issues. Having been involved in various leadership capacities in various sportsmen's groups at the local, state and national level, I've always found it both in fascinating and frustrating whenever a proverbial call to arms for either volunteers and/or money goes out...and all too the response sounds like crickets chirping. The same people that can't be bothered to volunteer a few hours and/or donate a few bucks for whatever wildlife conservation projects, hunters education or legislative issue awareness seem to always be the first to bitch and moan about things.
Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT taking anything away from the relatively small core of awesome people among the various sportsmen's groups across this state and elsewhere that do contribute a huge amount of their time and/or money. I think it would shock people, or maybe not, at just how much time and energy a few people selflessly volunteer for the benefit of hunters and hunting. Without them, hunting as we know it here in Washington would be drastically different...and not for the better! These volunteers are the unsung heroes in my mind.
Post by: Reidus on April 26, 2016, 03:45:41 PM
I wish my grandfather had founded UPS instead of being a gardener for the Olympia brewery :chuckle::yeah:
Casey is a great guy. I know one year sheep hunting in Washington he spent 25 days bowhunting sheep. He will pay for tags and hunts hard. He also set me up with my 1st bow.
Post by: Caretaker on April 26, 2016, 11:05:46 PM
Post by: RadSav on April 27, 2016, 02:18:30 AM
Casey is a great guy. I know one year sheep hunting in Washington he spent 25 days bowhunting sheep. He will pay for tags and hunts hard. He also set me up with my 1st bow.
Casey and I do not know each other all that well. Our conversations have been brief and a lot of them have seen disagreements in self-promotion. But there has always been common ground and respect both ways, I think. He has given a good bit of his time to help out our local Marine Vet/Archery shop owner down here. Never asking for anything in return. Each year he earns more and more of my respect. Both in his evolvement as a father and as a bowhunter.
In this line of work you get to know a lot of wealthy hunters who buy animals and are borderline fake in their perceived success. Casey is no such animal. Sure the family wealth allows hunting the best animals in some of the best places on earth, but to me he hunts hard when he is there and makes the most of the opportunities that are presented. And he does DIY also! That is not my definition of fake success. No matter how much money you have you don't take 63 archery elk and attain the archery Super Slam without knowing how to handle pressure and making shots count.
IMO - Good man, great bowhunter.
Here is a pretty cool audio interview. If you didn't know about his governor purchases and wealth you'd just hear a cool dude that enjoys hunting. http://jayscottoutdoors.podbean.com/e/episdoe-26-bowhunting-elk-with-casey-brooks/
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 27, 2016, 05:16:12 AM
The mule deer raffle tag guy in Washington this year purchased 1 ticket and won it. Stranger things have happened.
Examples please
Post by: REHJWA on April 27, 2016, 07:45:19 AM
The mule deer raffle tag guy in Washington this year purchased 1 ticket and won it. Stranger things have happened.
Examples please
I won a rifle at a banquet :IBCOOL:, think I've used all my luck up for a while... :dunno:
Post by: JDHasty on April 27, 2016, 08:11:40 AM
Post by: grundy53 on April 27, 2016, 08:15:37 AM
I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
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Post by: JDHasty on April 27, 2016, 08:19:53 AM
I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
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True that, but there are open drawing tags. But there are open seasons on big game that everyone can participate in. My buddy who I reference above buys General Season big game tags for other species and hunts public lands quite often and does quite well. My impression is that he is in a distinct minority when it comes to the guys who participate in these auctions and "flood the raffles."
Post by: RadSav on April 27, 2016, 12:59:37 PM
There are a few that didn't come into money until later in their careers. Some of those that I know were complete animals in their youth and insanely good hunters. But age caught up to them and they've used their good fortune to extend their success in the field even after set backs.
To be quite honest, if I were wealthy I would not be hunting spikes and cows in the general Eastern Washington. Why should I hunt cows when I could hunt big bucks and bulls in AZ, UT and MT? Why would I hunt with 1,000 other drunken arse wipes when I could afford private land? Why would I hide my truck and ride a bike five or ten miles like LD Jones used to do just to shake the leaches loose?
Post by: coachcw on April 27, 2016, 08:41:27 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 27, 2016, 08:55:42 PM
Its a addiction .......trust me once you have had a raffle tag it's all you can think about..
If I was coach and was making millions off my business I'd hunt trophy animals everywhere to. :chuckle:
Post by: Whitpirate on April 28, 2016, 09:35:10 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 29, 2016, 12:38:46 PM
Plat's been eating too many firesticks again and clouding his brain.... Coach works hard like the rest of us... he's just a giant luckbox when it comes to draws. No rich man advantage.
:chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on April 29, 2016, 12:49:26 PM
I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.
Clearly you don't know enough of these guys.
Post by: jackelope on April 29, 2016, 12:54:05 PM
I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
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True that, but there are open drawing tags. But there are open seasons on big game that everyone can participate in. My buddy who I reference above buys General Season big game tags for other species and hunts public lands quite often and does quite well. My impression is that he is in a distinct minority when it comes to the guys who participate in these auctions and "flood the raffles."
JD, when is the last time you were in close contact with any of these auction or raffle hunt guys? Reason I ask is usually the examples you share of these type stories are from 20 years ago.
Post by: JDHasty on April 29, 2016, 01:16:43 PM
I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
True that, but there are open drawing tags. But there are open seasons on big game that everyone can participate in. My buddy who I reference above buys General Season big game tags for other species and hunts public lands quite often and does quite well. My impression is that he is in a distinct minority when it comes to the guys who participate in these auctions and "flood the raffles."
JD, when is the last time you were in close contact with any of these auction or raffle hunt guys? Reason I ask is usually the examples you share of these type stories are from 20 years ago.
Talked on the phone with the guy I know yesterday, as a matter of fact. Just a social call, I take a train to work and use that time to keep in touch with friends who live in other States.
Post by: jackelope on April 29, 2016, 01:20:14 PM
I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
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True that, but there are open drawing tags. But there are open seasons on big game that everyone can participate in. My buddy who I reference above buys General Season big game tags for other species and hunts public lands quite often and does quite well. My impression is that he is in a distinct minority when it comes to the guys who participate in these auctions and "flood the raffles."
JD, when is the last time you were in close contact with any of these auction or raffle hunt guys? Reason I ask is usually the examples you share of these type stories are from 20 years ago.
Talked on the phone with the guy I know yesterday, as a matter of fact. Just a social call, I take a train to work and use that time to keep in touch with friends who live in other States.
And this person is someone who regularly participates in raffle or auction hunts in Washington?
Only reason I ask is because there are at least a couple guys who regularly participate in these hunts posting in this very thread. I know others on a personal level and communicate with them regularly. They all hunt general seasons annually.
Post by: JDHasty on April 29, 2016, 01:37:25 PM
I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
True that, but there are open drawing tags. But there are open seasons on big game that everyone can participate in. My buddy who I reference above buys General Season big game tags for other species and hunts public lands quite often and does quite well. My impression is that he is in a distinct minority when it comes to the guys who participate in these auctions and "flood the raffles."
JD, when is the last time you were in close contact with any of these auction or raffle hunt guys? Reason I ask is usually the examples you share of these type stories are from 20 years ago.
Talked on the phone with the guy I know yesterday, as a matter of fact. Just a social call, I take a train to work and use that time to keep in touch with friends who live in other States.
And this person is someone who regularly participates in raffle or auction hunts in Washington?
Only reason I ask is because there are at least a couple guys who regularly participate in these hunts posting in this very thread. I know others on a personal level and communicate with them regularly. They all hunt general seasons annually.
What I have said, and all I have ever said regarding that friendship (after being accused of being jealous of those who participate or of wanting to shut down tag auctions), is: I do have a friend who has participated in Tag Auction opportunities and that the guy is a straight up guy and I have posted links to a couple articles that were written about the guy that document and validate what I am saying about the guy. What that has to do with me sharing with others that my impression, after meeting more than a few others who do participate in these auctions, is: more likely than not, in my mind, they do not hunt the General Seasons on a General Season Tag and I wonder what portion of their success rate under what are demonstrably very favorable conditions would translate over if they hunted under much less favorable circumstances.
So what is your point?
Post by: jackelope on April 29, 2016, 01:59:03 PM
My point is I don't think you're in the current loop with the majority of auction and raffle tag hunters. I don't think the point you're obviously trying to make is valid. It seems to me that you're trying to belittle their skills by implying they are unsuccessful general season hunters and the only reason they are successful is money. You're crapping in yet another thread related to auction/raffle tag hunts. It gets old.I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
True that, but there are open drawing tags. But there are open seasons on big game that everyone can participate in. My buddy who I reference above buys General Season big game tags for other species and hunts public lands quite often and does quite well. My impression is that he is in a distinct minority when it comes to the guys who participate in these auctions and "flood the raffles."
JD, when is the last time you were in close contact with any of these auction or raffle hunt guys? Reason I ask is usually the examples you share of these type stories are from 20 years ago.
Talked on the phone with the guy I know yesterday, as a matter of fact. Just a social call, I take a train to work and use that time to keep in touch with friends who live in other States.
And this person is someone who regularly participates in raffle or auction hunts in Washington?
Only reason I ask is because there are at least a couple guys who regularly participate in these hunts posting in this very thread. I know others on a personal level and communicate with them regularly. They all hunt general seasons annually.
What I have said, and all I have ever said regarding that friendship (after being accused of being jealous of those who participate or of wanting to shut down tag auctions), is: I do have a friend who has participated in Tag Auction opportunities and that the guy is a straight up guy and I have posted links to a couple articles that were written about the guy that document and validate what I am saying about the guy. What that has to do with me sharing with others that my impression, after meeting more than a few others who do participate in these auctions, is: more likely than not, in my mind, they do not hunt the General Seasons on a General Season Tag and I wonder what portion of their success rate under what are demonstrably very favorable conditions would translate over if they hunted under much less favorable circumstances.
So what is your point?
Post by: JDHasty on April 29, 2016, 02:28:14 PM
My point is I don't think you're in the current loop with the majority of auction and raffle tag hunters. I don't think the point you're obviously trying to make is valid. It seems to me that you're trying to belittle their skills by implying they are unsuccessful general season hunters and the only reason they are successful is money. You're crapping in yet another thread related to auction/raffle tag hunts. It gets old.I don't take anything away from the accomplishment of many of the guys who purchase these Auction opportunities, but I always wonder is if many of them have what it takes to get it done during the General Seasons with nothing but a General Season Tag. I am good friends with a guy who does participate in the Tag Auctions and he also buys over the counter tags and frequently takes trophy animals during the General Season (it probably helps that he has friends who allow him access). My impression is though, that most of these Auction Tag purchasers don't hunt the General Seasons with an over the counter or open drawing tag.Not many over the counter bighorn tags....
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
True that, but there are open drawing tags. But there are open seasons on big game that everyone can participate in. My buddy who I reference above buys General Season big game tags for other species and hunts public lands quite often and does quite well. My impression is that he is in a distinct minority when it comes to the guys who participate in these auctions and "flood the raffles."
JD, when is the last time you were in close contact with any of these auction or raffle hunt guys? Reason I ask is usually the examples you share of these type stories are from 20 years ago.
Talked on the phone with the guy I know yesterday, as a matter of fact. Just a social call, I take a train to work and use that time to keep in touch with friends who live in other States.
And this person is someone who regularly participates in raffle or auction hunts in Washington?
Only reason I ask is because there are at least a couple guys who regularly participate in these hunts posting in this very thread. I know others on a personal level and communicate with them regularly. They all hunt general seasons annually.
What I have said, and all I have ever said regarding that friendship (after being accused of being jealous of those who participate or of wanting to shut down tag auctions), is: I do have a friend who has participated in Tag Auction opportunities and that the guy is a straight up guy and I have posted links to a couple articles that were written about the guy that document and validate what I am saying about the guy. What that has to do with me sharing with others that my impression, after meeting more than a few others who do participate in these auctions, is: more likely than not, in my mind, they do not hunt the General Seasons on a General Season Tag and I wonder what portion of their success rate under what are demonstrably very favorable conditions would translate over if they hunted under much less favorable circumstances.
So what is your point?
So do most of them participate in the General Seasons or not? My impression is that most do not. Correct me if I am wrong.
Am I not allowed to also (see * below) weigh in on a topic that has been brought up for discussion and state that I wonder what portion of their success rate under what are demonstrably very favorable conditions would translate over if they hunted under much less favorable circumstances?
I have also met a guy, and visited his home/trophy room, who is a "big time hunter." He has everything from leopards to Asian Guar hanging from the walls of his home, but what you will not see in among that collection is a single head of big game taken in the State of Montana, and the guy lives in Montana. He has lived there all his life. He has great big Whitetail deer, and he has monster elk, but they were not taken in Montana - they were taken on.... Nobody really knows for sure. Oh, and he has a room full of guns that is probably worth a cool million dollars, if it's worth a penny . My cousin says of the guy: "He is a nice enough guy, but he couldn't hunt up a Labrador retriever if he had a pork chop tied around his neck." The guy pays for "hunts" all over the world, and from all indications does quite well in taking big game trophy animals, but if the guy has ever even hunted the General Season it is a well kept secret.
I am fairly certain that this latter example of a "big time hunter" is out on one end of the bell curve, just as I am fairly certain that this Brooks cat and my buddy are more likely than not out on the other end of the same bell curve.
*And FYI, it was not I who introduced the discussion here. I was responding after considering this post: In this line of work you get to know a lot of wealthy hunters who buy animals and are borderline fake in their perceived success.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 29, 2016, 02:47:25 PM
Just my :twocents:
I am just not sure how any of this discussion applies to this thread.