Post by: buckhorn2 on February 09, 2016, 01:41:26 PM
Post by: whacker1 on February 09, 2016, 01:47:57 PM
I know that there has been discussion that you can't currently appeal the background check, because they aren't being processed.
Not sure about the $100 restocking fee, but that seems costly for a gun that never left the building.
Post by: lamrith on February 09, 2016, 02:01:36 PM
Did they give him a reason for why he didn't pass?The store will not have a reason he didn't pass, they are only told pass, decline, delay. I have heard the same thing about appelas not being looked at which is total garbage given there are plenty of criminals out there that have the same name as law abiding citizens, and mistakes do happen. Now a mistake happens and the legal to own citizen is completely SOL.
I know that there has been discussion that you can't currently appeal the background check, because they aren't being processed.
Not sure about the $100 restocking fee, but that seems costly for a gun that never left the building.
:bash:
Normally there is a fee up front disclosed that will be charged for FFL fee upon a decline, many shops it is $50. $100 seems a bit high, but shops get tired of locking up guns only to have backgrounds fail then have to put guns back on shelf and missed sales in meantime. Plus they paperwork. Crappy situation all the way around.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 09, 2016, 02:02:25 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on February 09, 2016, 02:02:59 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 09, 2016, 02:38:42 PM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on February 09, 2016, 02:44:51 PM
Personally, I wish we had a mandatory fee of $250 per purchase, that way at least everyone will feel the pain of their terrible decisions equally. Might as well get it out of the way. Again, it seems the only way to get people to wake up is when it affects them personally. You sure as heck aren't going to get the people making money off of laws to stand up for freedom. :twocents:
I saw where two cops couldn't carry because of some laws in their state. I highly doubt they stood up for anything until it affected them personally.
Post by: Jonathan_S on February 09, 2016, 02:55:21 PM
Hopefully he is one of those that supports background checks. Seems to be the only way to wake some people up is for it to affect them personally.
Personally, I wish we had a mandatory fee of $250 per purchase, that way at least everyone will feel the pain of their terrible decisions equally. Might as well get it out of the way. Again, it seems the only way to get people to wake up is when it affects them personally. You sure as heck aren't going to get the people making money off of laws to stand up for freedom. :twocents:
I saw where two cops couldn't carry because of some laws in their state. I highly doubt they stood up for anything until it affected them personally.
This makes no sense, I didn't vote for I-594 and I seriously doubt many gun owners, buyers, or sellers did.
How are the "bad decision makers" supposed to feel the consequence if they aren't buying or selling?
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on February 09, 2016, 03:02:29 PM
Hopefully he is one of those that supports background checks. Seems to be the only way to wake some people up is for it to affect them personally.
Personally, I wish we had a mandatory fee of $250 per purchase, that way at least everyone will feel the pain of their terrible decisions equally. Might as well get it out of the way. Again, it seems the only way to get people to wake up is when it affects them personally. You sure as heck aren't going to get the people making money off of laws to stand up for freedom. :twocents:
I saw where two cops couldn't carry because of some laws in their state. I highly doubt they stood up for anything until it affected them personally.
This makes no sense, I didn't vote for I-594 and I seriously doubt many gun owners, buyers, or sellers did.
How are the "bad decision makers" supposed to feel the consequence if they aren't buying or selling?
You must have missed the polls I did last week. Unfortunately, there are a lot of hunters that do support background checks.
That was the point of the polls... to wake us up from kidding ourselves. There are a lot of people on "our side" that fall for this stuff. Whether they are just not very sharp people or they are just naive, they are there and a lot more than you'd think.
Post by: Special T on February 09, 2016, 04:40:27 PM
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Post by: splitshot on February 09, 2016, 05:32:49 PM
Post by: Bill W on February 09, 2016, 05:37:07 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 09, 2016, 05:37:49 PM
Buckhorn2- your grandson got ripped off. If they're going to charge $100 they should let you know up front.
Post by: Buddyk-9 on February 09, 2016, 07:11:59 PM
The federal and state governments should have established a known fee, when and where fees and type will be exercised and the amount charged shall be no more than a fixed fee. In Washington State under I-594 transfer requirements, some dealers are charging minimal fees ($20-30), while other charge a percentage of the firearms evaluation or cost or over $50. Under I-594 an fixed fee ($20-30) should have been imposed and all dealers required to perform the transfer. A failure to pass the background check should have been addressed as well with a prohibition of a re-stocking fee. Paying the dealer FFL use fee is enough.
Post by: lokidog on February 09, 2016, 07:50:52 PM
Post by: HighlandLofts on February 09, 2016, 08:08:21 PM
A $100 seams high on a "DENIAL", what gun shop did this take place?
Post by: tjthebest on February 09, 2016, 08:10:17 PM
Post by: MadHatter on February 12, 2016, 12:53:07 PM
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/appeals/nics-guide-for-appealing
Post by: CP on February 12, 2016, 12:58:27 PM
Post the name of this place so we all know to avoid it.
Post by: kckrawler on February 12, 2016, 01:04:48 PM
Is this standard practice??? For an "off-the-shelf" 22??? Seems out of line from the get go. I'd tell them no way to the restocking fee and if they don't credit him the full amount, I'd fight it.
Post by: Skillet on February 12, 2016, 01:08:37 PM
Post by: birddogdad on February 12, 2016, 01:16:45 PM
1) backgnd check approval before purchase.. no paying big $$ up front
2) steer clear from this unethical business, social media is great for bruising these kinds of places...
Post by: Curly on February 12, 2016, 01:21:00 PM
Post by: emac on February 12, 2016, 01:48:53 PM
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Post by: WSU on February 12, 2016, 01:51:11 PM
Post by: Bango skank on February 12, 2016, 02:05:54 PM
I've bought several guns from local shops - every time it was a "pay up front" deal with a restock fee of some sort of I didn't pass. All known before the transaction took place. I was cool with that.
Ive never had to do that. Hell even cabelas you dont pay pre background check.
Post by: splitshot on February 12, 2016, 04:12:49 PM
Post by: Skillet on February 12, 2016, 04:27:11 PM
I've bought several guns from local shops - every time it was a "pay up front" deal with a restock fee of some sort of I didn't pass. All known before the transaction took place. I was cool with that.
Ive never had to do that. Hell even cabelas you dont pay pre background check.
:dunno: Maybe I just look suspicious? There's only two shops I buy from, the rest are private purchases. That's just how they do it, I never gave it a second thought. But, as I said - the restock policy is clearly outlined before any cash changes hands. Sounds like the shop in the OP's experience was not as forthcoming.
Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 04:47:39 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 12, 2016, 05:35:21 PM
If they did as you say they broke the law. :yeah: Basically your saying they sold a firearm in WASHINGTON without a background check done.Never in all the firearms i have purchased was i ever charged before check was done.Especially in WASHINGTON now that we have I 594.
That is not correct. If the person took possession of the gun without a background check then yes. In this case it's perfectly legal for them to collect up front even though it should have been disclosed and is in very poor taste and a rip off at 100.00.
Take me for example. If I have a gun in stock and someone wants to buy it. They don't pay anything up front but it's known that if they fail there will be a 25.00 fee, which is what I charge for all transfers. Pass or fail.
If someone wants a custom order item or part. A business is perfectly legit to require a down payment or payment in full. A small guy like me cant be ordering 500-2000 rifles to not have people show up and pick them up. I am a trusting guy and with most members on here I will just order a gun. However I did get burned by one member backing out of buying a item from me after I ordered it for him.
Post by: Jarhead Chase on February 12, 2016, 05:42:21 PM
Every new gun purchase i have ever made i get delayed. I dont know how come or the reason. The only thing i have ever done was got a speeding ticket. But in usually 2days i get the ok. I dont know how to resolve this issueI think you should be able to clear this up by getting a unique identifying number. I am not sure how to get one, but they have always had a spot for them on the paperwork. I think you register for it through NICS.
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Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 05:49:13 PM
This statement right here :yeah: Is so far away from the topic that i'm just going to get out now. CUSTOM ORDER ITEMS WOULD BE SO MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE OP IS TALKING ABOUT.If they did as you say they broke the law. :yeah: Basically your saying they sold a firearm in WASHINGTON without a background check done.Never in all the firearms i have purchased was i ever charged before check was done.Especially in WASHINGTON now that we have I 594.
That is not correct. If the person took possession of the gun without a background check then yes. In this case it's perfectly legal for them to collect up front even though it should have been disclosed and is in very poor taste and a rip off at 100.00.
Take me for example. If I have a gun in stock and someone wants to buy it. They don't pay anything up front but it's known that if they fail there will be a 25.00 fee, which is what I charge for all transfers. Pass or fail.
If someone wants a custom order item or part. A business is perfectly legit to require a down payment or payment in full. A small guy like me cant be ordering 500-2000 rifles to not have people show up and pick them up. I am a trusting guy and with most members on here I will just order a gun. However I did get burned by one member backing out of buying a item from me after I ordered it for him.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 12, 2016, 06:31:41 PM
Your statement about legality is far more off topic. No laws were broken to require payment up front as you suggested.
Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 06:39:16 PM
Post by: emac on February 12, 2016, 06:41:11 PM
Thanks i will look into itEvery new gun purchase i have ever made i get delayed. I dont know how come or the reason. The only thing i have ever done was got a speeding ticket. But in usually 2days i get the ok. I dont know how to resolve this issueI think you should be able to clear this up by getting a unique identifying number. I am not sure how to get one, but they have always had a spot for them on the paperwork. I think you register for it through NICS.
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Post by: Jarhead Chase on February 12, 2016, 06:41:58 PM
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Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 12, 2016, 06:43:56 PM
I think if you accept FULL payment for an Item then you have sold that item.When you do your B/G check you put serial and all from that firearm on the B/G check,That firearm can now not be sold to anyone else until the check is complete or canceled.In my op. and only my op. you have sold that firearm.That is why if you read thru the rest of the member posts you will see that none of them have paid prior to the B/G so far.Do you get B/G done before you take money for a FIREARM?
You are still missing the point. Your definition of sold is incorrect. The gun is on HOLD until the results are known. THE GUN IS NOT SOLD UNTIL THE BG CHECK CLEARS AND THE PERSON TAKES POSSESION.
Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 06:46:44 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 12, 2016, 06:51:31 PM
Ok,Without the name of this business this whole thread is nothing but drama.I see you steered clear of answering the question to.
You can go back and re-read one of my posts if you want the answer again.
Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 07:00:39 PM
So you take full payment for Custom order firearms before the background check is complete?Ok,Without the name of this business this whole thread is nothing but drama.I see you steered clear of answering the question to.
You can go back and re-read one of my posts if you want the answer again.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 12, 2016, 07:02:39 PM
If they did as you say they broke the law. :yeah: Basically your saying they sold a firearm in WASHINGTON without a background check done.Never in all the firearms i have purchased was i ever charged before check was done.Especially in WASHINGTON now that we have I 594.
That is not correct. If the person took possession of the gun without a background check then yes. In this case it's perfectly legal for them to collect up front even though it should have been disclosed and is in very poor taste and a rip off at 100.00.
Take me for example. If I have a gun in stock and someone wants to buy it. They don't pay anything up front but it's known that if they fail there will be a 25.00 fee, which is what I charge for all transfers. Pass or fail.
If someone wants a custom order item or part. A business is perfectly legit to require a down payment or payment in full. A small guy like me cant be ordering 500-2000 rifles to not have people show up and pick them up. I am a trusting guy and with most members on here I will just order a gun. However I did get burned by one member backing out of buying a item from me after I ordered it for him.
Here you go :tup:
Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 07:06:59 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 12, 2016, 07:09:21 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 07:13:42 PM
I do not disagree with that at all :tup: I just wanted to let you know that in this case from what has been said. No laws were broken and the gun was not sold.Yes i see what your saying.almost sounds like the bg was never done and $100 was pocketed.
Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 07:14:36 PM
Post by: buckhorn2 on February 12, 2016, 07:58:35 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on February 12, 2016, 08:01:05 PM
Every new gun purchase i have ever made i get delayed. I dont know how come or the reason. The only thing i have ever done was got a speeding ticket. But in usually 2days i get the ok. I dont know how to resolve this issue
Your delay is most probably related to another person who has a nearly exact name, who has a felony or domestic violence record.
Post by: emac on February 12, 2016, 08:11:43 PM
That is what the gun stores have told me the case probably is. It has never been that big of deal to me. But it is kinda of embarrassing when it happens but now I warn them before hand. Now it sucks with 594 cause i can't really meet someone from out of town to buy a used gun unless I wanna drive back to the location once I get delayed.Every new gun purchase i have ever made i get delayed. I dont know how come or the reason. The only thing i have ever done was got a speeding ticket. But in usually 2days i get the ok. I dont know how to resolve this issue
Your delay is most probably related to another person who has a nearly exact name, who has a felony or domestic violence record.
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Post by: Oh Mah on February 12, 2016, 08:21:00 PM
Who's credit card?The check is done right then and there over the phone.No paper work gets sent any where for the buyer to be ok to buy the firearm.On the phone Ok,Delayed,Or denied nothing else.That is what the gun stores have told me the case probably is. It has never been that big of deal to me. But it is kinda of embarrassing when it happens but now I warn them before hand. Now it sucks with 594 cause i can't really meet someone from out of town to buy a used gun unless I wanna drive back to the location once I get delayed.Every new gun purchase i have ever made i get delayed. I dont know how come or the reason. The only thing i have ever done was got a speeding ticket. But in usually 2days i get the ok. I dont know how to resolve this issue
Your delay is most probably related to another person who has a nearly exact name, who has a felony or domestic violence record.
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Post by: ICEMAN on February 12, 2016, 08:27:07 PM
This process has you submitting an application after you have had a denial.
They research your situation, and conflicting record with a felon.
They issue you a special number called a UPIN, Unique Personal Identification Number
You use your UPIN when you attempt to purchase.
NICS staff use the UPIN to clarify their decision making process and quickly let you receive a "pass" on your next gun purchase. This was set up exactly for guys like you.
www.fbi.gov/nics-appeals
Post by: emac on February 12, 2016, 08:30:57 PM
Emac, for guys like you,the FBI has a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF)Thanks iceman. You state for someone that gets a denial. Is it the same as someone that gets delayed? I am sure it is but just thought I would clarify it.
This process has you submitting an application after you have had a denial.
They research your situation, and conflicting record with a felon.
They issue you a special number called a UPIN, Unique Personal Identification Number
You use your UPIN when you attempt to purchase.
NICS staff use the UPIN to clarify their decision making process and quickly let you receive a "pass" on your next gun purchase. This was set up exactly for guys like you.
www.fbi.gov/nics-appeals
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Post by: emac on February 12, 2016, 08:32:28 PM
Emac, for guys like you,the FBI has a Voluntary Appeal File (VAF)Never mind I just looked at the link and it answered my question thanks again I will work on that
This process has you submitting an application after you have had a denial.
They research your situation, and conflicting record with a felon.
They issue you a special number called a UPIN, Unique Personal Identification Number
You use your UPIN when you attempt to purchase.
NICS staff use the UPIN to clarify their decision making process and quickly let you receive a "pass" on your next gun purchase. This was set up exactly for guys like you.
www.fbi.gov/nics-appeals
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Post by: ICEMAN on February 12, 2016, 08:34:31 PM
Post by: emac on February 12, 2016, 08:35:36 PM
Bad language on my part. The VAF help you get approved, when you were previously delayed or denied while NICS staff investigated the criminal record causing you hardship. Gun counter personnel will not put shame on you when you use your UPIN. It is basically a "good guy" file.Ok thanks again
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Post by: ICEMAN on February 12, 2016, 08:36:13 PM