Post by: yorketransport on February 14, 2016, 01:14:24 PM
I haven't really decided on what the use should be. I'm thinking about a hunting cartridge in the 9.3mm bore since that's the only bore diameter between .17 and .510 that I've never played with. The easy answer is a 375 Ruger case necked down to 9.3, but that's a little bland. It's just too close to the 375 to really stand out.
So I guess the real question is what's the one cartridge that you wish were out there?
Maybe the I just need to follow through with the 300 Boondoggle off of the 450 Dakota case. That should get the 230gr Berger Hybrid in the 3300+ fps range. :tup:
Post by: bobcat on February 14, 2016, 01:52:54 PM
Post by: jasnt on February 14, 2016, 03:35:23 PM
Post by: CaNINE on February 14, 2016, 03:37:43 PM
We discussed necking the 30 Nosler case up to .338; and brining life back to the 7mmWSM with a +P variant
He has a 6mmWSM barrel on the way from Brux - not a new wildcat but it's always fun to tinker around with something non-standard.
Post by: jdb on February 14, 2016, 03:51:58 PM
Post by: Dan-o on February 14, 2016, 04:09:04 PM
Trying for the highest muzzle velocity and yet still have a bullet that poops out by 500 yards........
Post by: yorketransport on February 14, 2016, 06:37:34 PM
A 17-416 Rigby???
Trying for the highest muzzle velocity and yet still have a bullet that poops out by 500 yards........
Now we're getting somewhere! :tup: But think of the barrel life!!!!!
I'd love to have a 25 WSM. Just guessing here but I bet it would be very similar to the 257 Weatherby but with less recoil and a belt-less case. I don't need another rifle but if someone would come out with a 25 WSM I'd find it hard to resist.
I helped a guy come up with a 25 SAUM reamer a while back. It easily matched the 257 Weatherby. It was a very cool round that's been working great for the guy on deer in Alabama.
You already know what I want. 243 SAUM but I also have interest in 7/300wm or the 7 rogue from RBros I believe. Also the 7/375Wy mag
That 243 SAUM would be a coyote killing machine!
Post by: elkslayer069 on February 14, 2016, 06:46:53 PM
I've always wanted to neck a .338-06 up to .30 caliber and call it the .30-338-06
Really?? Neck a .338 up to .30 i hope someone else does your check book for you. :sry:
Post by: whacker1 on February 14, 2016, 07:01:58 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on February 14, 2016, 07:18:54 PM
I've always wanted to neck a .338-06 up to .30 caliber and call it the .30-338-06
That's been around for a long time. It's called the 30-06.
Post by: Curly on February 14, 2016, 07:30:22 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 14, 2016, 07:41:08 PM
Post by: kentrek on February 14, 2016, 08:00:14 PM
:tup:
Post by: Jolten on February 14, 2016, 08:00:28 PM
Post by: Bill W on February 14, 2016, 08:02:40 PM
Post by: bhawley76 on February 14, 2016, 08:09:38 PM
Post by: jdb on February 14, 2016, 08:13:17 PM
i hope everyone realizes I was jokingI've always wanted to neck a .338-06 up to .30 caliber and call it the .30-338-06
That's been around for a long time. It's called the 30-06.
Post by: jasnt on February 14, 2016, 08:15:21 PM
:chuckle: I wondered if you were going say something or just let them fly with it.i hope everyone realizes I was jokingI've always wanted to neck a .338-06 up to .30 caliber and call it the .30-338-06
That's been around for a long time. It's called the 30-06.
Post by: Special T on February 14, 2016, 08:19:57 PM
Post by: jasnt on February 14, 2016, 08:21:09 PM
Whats the biggest case size you can get in the AR platform and have necked down to something like 6mm-6.5,243?243 is basically a necked down 308
Post by: 2labs on February 14, 2016, 08:23:06 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on February 14, 2016, 08:23:41 PM
375 wsm seems like it would fit the bill for a short range heavy hitter..something similar to 375 h&h performance but in short actionWonder if the wsm has the capacity to match the hh?
:tup:
Would be pretty cool if it could
Post by: Special T on February 14, 2016, 08:24:57 PM
Whats the biggest case size you can get in the AR platform and have necked down to something like 6mm-6.5,243?243 is basically a necked down 308
So is a 243short mag just a really shortened 308 case?
I dont reload and not super hyped about wildcats HOWEVER i could see sweet wildcats for the AR platform...
Post by: jasnt on February 14, 2016, 08:27:16 PM
243 sm is a fatter shorter case. Like a 6br. Kinda what has inspired me for a 243saum. It would be like a 243wssm stretched outWhats the biggest case size you can get in the AR platform and have necked down to something like 6mm-6.5,243?243 is basically a necked down 308
So is a 243short mag just a really shortened 308 case?
I dont reload and not super hyped about wildcats HOWEVER i could see sweet wildcats for the AR platform...
Post by: kentrek on February 14, 2016, 08:42:55 PM
375 wsm seems like it would fit the bill for a short range heavy hitter..something similar to 375 h&h performance but in short actionWonder if the wsm has the capacity to match the hh?
:tup:
Would be pretty cool if it could
I think it would come up short compared to the hh...bit it's a good place to start !! :tup:
Post by: elkslayer069 on February 14, 2016, 10:24:55 PM
i hope everyone realizes I was jokingI've always wanted to neck a .338-06 up to .30 caliber and call it the .30-338-06
That's been around for a long time. It's called the 30-06.
Man i was hoping so but one never knows :chuckle:
Post by: Curly on February 15, 2016, 12:38:22 AM
Post by: high country on February 15, 2016, 01:05:47 AM
Post by: got2hunt on February 15, 2016, 01:33:00 AM
Post by: yorketransport on February 15, 2016, 05:27:40 AM
Dose anyone know any balistics on that 6.5 -300rum?
It will pretty much mirror the 6.5 Badger.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=152053.0
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?topic=153858.0
Post by: crabcreekhunter on February 15, 2016, 08:47:54 AM
Post by: b23 on February 15, 2016, 09:59:50 AM
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
Post by: WoodlandShooter on February 15, 2016, 10:08:55 AM
Post by: theleo on February 15, 2016, 10:09:09 AM
Post by: jasnt on February 15, 2016, 10:16:04 AM
How's about a 17-300 WSM? It'll just be none as the 17 Death Ray.i wonder if they would even hold together. That would be like mile per second at the muzzle. I think it was bigger hammer that was playing with 110 vmax in a 30-378 that would shoot bullets like buck shot :dunno:
Post by: theleo on February 15, 2016, 10:39:55 AM
Well if you are going to interject reality into my land of make believe, of course it won't. How about a 20 wssm? I've got a couple of wild cats. My bucket list experiment is using my 280ai with 110 grain TNT's on rock chucks. I want to be the spotter, someone else can pull the trigger.How's about a 17-300 WSM? It'll just be none as the 17 Death Ray.i wonder if they would even hold together. That would be like mile per second at the muzzle. I think it was bigger hammer that was playing with 110 vmax in a 30-378 that would shoot bullets like buck shot :dunno:
Post by: Bill W on February 15, 2016, 10:43:18 AM
Well if you are going to interject reality into my land of make believe, of course it won't. How about a 20 wssm? I've got a couple of wild cats. My bucket list experiment is using my 280ai with 110 grain TNT's on rock chucks. I want to be the spotter, someone else can pull the trigger.How's about a 17-300 WSM? It'll just be none as the 17 Death Ray.i wonder if they would even hold together. That would be like mile per second at the muzzle. I think it was bigger hammer that was playing with 110 vmax in a 30-378 that would shoot bullets like buck shot :dunno:
Who's gonna investigate the "crime scene". That could be messy.
Post by: theleo on February 15, 2016, 10:50:47 AM
That was my assumption when I used that load on a couple of coyotes. I was surprised the only visible damage when I walked up was an entrance hole. My 243 with 100 grain Interlocks makes a substantially bigger mess of them. I guess the real deciding factor would be the bounce test. Bounce the bullet off the rock that a chuck is standing on and see what rifle launches them higher.Well if you are going to interject reality into my land of make believe, of course it won't. How about a 20 wssm? I've got a couple of wild cats. My bucket list experiment is using my 280ai with 110 grain TNT's on rock chucks. I want to be the spotter, someone else can pull the trigger.How's about a 17-300 WSM? It'll just be none as the 17 Death Ray.i wonder if they would even hold together. That would be like mile per second at the muzzle. I think it was bigger hammer that was playing with 110 vmax in a 30-378 that would shoot bullets like buck shot :dunno:
Who's gonna investigate the "crime scene". That could be messy.
Post by: Bill W on February 15, 2016, 10:53:25 AM
Post by: high country on February 15, 2016, 01:33:28 PM
Post by: yorketransport on February 15, 2016, 05:36:25 PM
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I looked into this about a year ago and came across the posts from LRH. I still have t ruled the idea out, I'm just waiting until I can get my hands on a gain twist barrel for the project.
given the quest for speed and power, one must notice that things like the 6 cm are making money....I think they all have a place out there. One of my favorite guns is a 6mm BR boltsction pistol just because it's fun and affordable to shoot. It's a different kind of fun than the 375 BME or 6.5 Badger though. The big stuff is like a drag car that only comes out once in a while and the BR/Creedmore/lapua class rounds are like daily drivers.
Right now I'm plotting with Gunsmith X on an appropriate platform for a 7.62x25 case necked down to 6mm. It would be like an FN 5.7 on steroids shooting the 55gr bullets.
Post by: AWS on February 15, 2016, 05:44:31 PM
Post by: yorketransport on February 15, 2016, 10:08:25 PM
I did a number of years àgo. The year after the 204 Ruger came out I necked it to .257 and it shoots 100gr Partitions at 2800+ fps out of a 22" barrel. Rather pedestrian in this day of LR glory but it is one heck of a deer rifle mirroring the ballistics of the original 257 Roberts ànd 250-3000 Savage both proven deer cartridges for nearly 100 years.
That's a potent little round!
Post by: high country on February 16, 2016, 08:08:28 AM
Post by: Bill W on February 16, 2016, 09:20:44 AM
I did a number of years àgo. The year after the 204 Ruger came out I necked it to .257 and it shoots 100gr Partitions at 2800+ fps out of a 22" barrel. Rather pedestrian in this day of LR glory but it is one heck of a deer rifle mirroring the ballistics of the original 257 Roberts ànd 250-3000 Savage both proven deer cartridges for nearly 100 years.
There was a wildcat in the mid-80's that was a .257 based off of the .222 Mag case. The Kimber down in Oregon chambered a/some rifle(s) in it. One of the salesmen for the old F&H news had one.
Post by: AWS on February 16, 2016, 12:16:52 PM
Post by: theleo on February 16, 2016, 01:25:07 PM
I've built a 22-204 ànd a 6mm-204. The 204 case has slightly more capacity than the 223AI and with the 30 degree neçk feeds well. The only fly back n the ointment is it is too long for à 527 or an AR.
So you have used 204 Ruger brass to reinvent the 222 Rem Mag?
Post by: WoodlandShooter on February 16, 2016, 03:14:45 PM
I want a round that when fired from a weapon with an initial zero of 100 yards will only drop ~4.0 Mills at 900 yards!!!
Post by: AWS on February 16, 2016, 04:10:15 PM
Post by: RadSav on February 16, 2016, 04:23:48 PM
I'd love to have a 25 WSM. Just guessing here but I bet it would be very similar to the 257 Weatherby but with less recoil and a belt-less case. I don't need another rifle but if someone would come out with a 25 WSM I'd find it hard to resist.
I too would like a .25 short mag. Though I would like it based on the SAUM instead of the WSM.
Post by: Bofire on February 16, 2016, 04:30:05 PM
Carl
Post by: Dan-o on February 16, 2016, 06:30:33 PM
Whats the biggest case size you can get in the AR platform and have necked down to something like 6mm-6.5,243?
458 SOCOM fits an AR-15 platform.
How about a 6.5 - 458 SOCOM?
There is your AR-15 deer/elk rifle!
Post by: 2labs on February 16, 2016, 06:32:51 PM
A 44 caliber bullet driven by a 22 short rimfire. for about 23 fps.
Carl
If ya had enough nut sack, you could play catch with it! :chuckle:
Post by: jasnt on February 16, 2016, 06:34:51 PM
or save your primers and use a sling shot lol.A 44 caliber bullet driven by a 22 short rimfire. for about 23 fps.
Carl
If ya had enough nut sack, you could play catch with it! :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on February 16, 2016, 07:32:38 PM
When Kirby Allen was frist building me a rifle I was going to go with his 277 Allen Mag which is a 338 Lapua, improved to his shoulder, necked down to .277 but the supply of 169.5 Wildcat bullets ceased to exist so went with a 300AX for the, new then, 230 Bergers.
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I checked out some potential ballistics, this is interesting!
Post by: coachcw on February 16, 2016, 07:40:33 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 16, 2016, 07:44:59 PM
.270 /378
Loads of powder and speed there! :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on February 16, 2016, 07:56:51 PM
Post by: kentrek on February 16, 2016, 08:03:39 PM
Beings I'm cheap I'd go for alil less powder and alil less brass and build 270 ultra and shoot as far as I ever wanted !! :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on February 16, 2016, 08:15:41 PM
That 195 bullet just doesn't know when to stop...no doubt the 7mm allen mag would be an incredible long range hunting rifle
Beings I'm cheap I'd go for alil less powder and alil less brass and build 270 ultra and shoot as far as I ever wanted !! :tup:
I'm not sure how fast you could push the .270 ultra or allen? These potential ballistics look pretty interesting.
Post by: kentrek on February 16, 2016, 08:25:32 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 16, 2016, 08:33:55 PM
Post by: JDHasty on February 16, 2016, 08:40:05 PM
When Kirby Allen was frist building me a rifle I was going to go with his 277 Allen Mag which is a 338 Lapua, improved to his shoulder, necked down to .277 but the supply of 169.5 Wildcat bullets ceased to exist so went with a 300AX for the, new then, 230 Bergers.
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I checked out some potential ballistics, this is interesting!
Kirby is an interesting cat, he is married to my cousin. He has logged every bullet he has sent down range going all the way back to when he was a kid. I have some prints of his artwork (a mule deer and a bighorn print, I wish I had more) it is in extremely high demand and sells for a pretty penny these days, it has been decades since he has done any artwork, gun smithing takes up all of his time.
Post by: bearpaw on February 16, 2016, 08:43:08 PM
When Kirby Allen was frist building me a rifle I was going to go with his 277 Allen Mag which is a 338 Lapua, improved to his shoulder, necked down to .277 but the supply of 169.5 Wildcat bullets ceased to exist so went with a 300AX for the, new then, 230 Bergers.
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I checked out some potential ballistics, this is interesting!
Kirby is an interesting cat, he is married to my cousin. He has logged every bullet he has sent down range going all the way back to when he was a kid. I have some prints of his artwork (a mule deer and a bighorn print, I wish I had more) it is in extremely high demand and sells for a pretty penny these days, it has been decades since he has done any artwork, gun smithing takes up all of his time.
I've been dissecting his website, he has done some interesting research and development! :tup:
Post by: The Gobble-stopper on February 16, 2016, 11:23:01 PM
Post by: huntnphool on February 17, 2016, 12:00:03 AM
Post by: quarterstaff on February 17, 2016, 04:47:25 AM
Post by: yorketransport on February 17, 2016, 05:33:26 AM
I believe you could get an extra 100 fps out of the 270 ultra...i don't have one yet but have eyed that caliber for awhile....i believe York or Jay shark has built one tho :dunno:
I pushed the 150gr bullets up around 3500 fps and the 140s to about 3600 with the 270 Ultra. The barrel I had was a 10" twist though and I wasn't really happy with it. I need to get around to ordering an 8" twist so I can really see what the 270 can do with the new Bergers. They should hit an easy 3350 fps.
Post by: kentrek on February 17, 2016, 05:50:30 AM
I believe you could get an extra 100 fps out of the 270 ultra...i don't have one yet but have eyed that caliber for awhile....i believe York or Jay shark has built one tho :dunno:
I pushed the 150gr bullets up around 3500 fps and the 140s to about 3600 with the 270 Ultra. The barrel I had was a 10" twist though and I wasn't really happy with it. I need to get around to ordering an 8" twist so I can really see what the 270 can do with the new Bergers. They should hit an easy 3350 fps.
Id think this would make the perfect "packable" long range gun, how was the recoil on the rifle you played with ?
Post by: b23 on February 17, 2016, 07:32:15 AM
I've also been looking at some 7mm options to try and get ballistics like these.
I'd have to search around and find it but I think I read where the 180 Berger was still outperforming the 195 Berger, at distance, because the 195's would pressure out and the velocity/BC wasn't enough to surpass what they were getting with the 180's.
If I recall there were a couple people that experienced this. Maybe Travis will read this and comment because I think he was part of that conversation too.
Post by: yorketransport on February 17, 2016, 09:06:59 PM
I'd have to search around and find it but I think I read where the 180 Berger was still outperforming the 195 Berger, at distance, because the 195's would pressure out and the velocity/BC wasn't enough to surpass what they were getting with the 180's.
If I recall there were a couple people that experienced this. Maybe Travis will read this and comment because I think he was part of that conversation too.
I've encountered this before, but with slightly lighter bullets. In my 284 Striker, I get better performance out to 1300 yards using the 168gr VLD instead of the 180 VLD because of the higher velocity of the 168. I think the super heavy 7mm bullets are at their best in cases the size of the 7mm RUM and up.
I pushed the 150gr bullets up around 3500 fps and the 140s to about 3600 with the 270 Ultra. The barrel I had was a 10" twist though and I wasn't really happy with it. I need to get around to ordering an 8" twist so I can really see what the 270 can do with the new Bergers. They should hit an easy 3350 fps.
Id think this would make the perfect "packable" long range gun, how was the recoil on the rifle you played with ?
[/quote]
My rifle was a bench gun and weighed nearly 18# scoped. The 270 RUM barrel was 28" and a straight taper to .85" at the muzzle with no muzzle brake. I was able to spot my own hits past about 300 yards and recoil was like a 308. In a 9# rifle I'd expect the recoil to be snappy, but not unmanageable. I've been really tempted to build a 270 RUM hunting rifle in the 9# range. It would be a pretty awesome "do all" rifle.
Post by: Reidus on February 17, 2016, 09:42:08 PM
Post by: kentrek on February 18, 2016, 05:11:50 AM
My rifle was a bench gun and weighed nearly 18# scoped. The 270 RUM barrel was 28" and a straight taper to .85" at the muzzle with no muzzle brake. I was able to spot my own hits past about 300 yards and recoil was like a 308. In a 9# rifle I'd expect the recoil to be snappy, but not unmanageable. I've been really tempted to build a 270 RUM hunting rifle in the 9# range. It would be a pretty awesome "do all" rifle.I'd have to search around and find it but I think I read where the 180 Berger was still outperforming the 195 Berger, at distance, because the 195's would pressure out and the velocity/BC wasn't enough to surpass what they were getting with the 180's.
If I recall there were a couple people that experienced this. Maybe Travis will read this and comment because I think he was part of that conversation too.
I've encountered this before, but with slightly lighter bullets. In my 284 Striker, I get better performance out to 1300 yards using the 168gr VLD instead of the 180 VLD because of the higher velocity of the 168. I think the super heavy 7mm bullets are at their best in cases the size of the 7mm RUM and up.
I pushed the 150gr bullets up around 3500 fps and the 140s to about 3600 with the 270 Ultra. The barrel I had was a 10" twist though and I wasn't really happy with it. I need to get around to ordering an 8" twist so I can really see what the 270 can do with the new Bergers. They should hit an easy 3350 fps.
Id think this would make the perfect "packable" long range gun, how was the recoil on the rifle you played with ?
[/quote]
9# scoped would be ideal...my problem is justifying the cost right now when I hardly ever shoot game over a couple hundred yards :dunno: need to add a pronghorn hunt to my fall schedule :chuckle:
Post by: yorketransport on February 18, 2016, 02:34:02 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 18, 2016, 06:36:15 PM
I've been working on a new idea for a few days now. I need somebody to make me some lead core 600gr VLDs in .458 diameter though. :tup:
:yike: Necked down 50?
Post by: jjhunter on February 18, 2016, 07:14:53 PM
When Kirby Allen was frist building me a rifle I was going to go with his 277 Allen Mag which is a 338 Lapua, improved to his shoulder, necked down to .277 but the supply of 169.5 Wildcat bullets ceased to exist so went with a 300AX for the, new then, 230 Bergers.
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I checked out some potential ballistics, this is interesting!
Kirby is an interesting cat, he is married to my cousin. He has logged every bullet he has sent down range going all the way back to when he was a kid. I have some prints of his artwork (a mule deer and a bighorn print, I wish I had more) it is in extremely high demand and sells for a pretty penny these days, it has been decades since he has done any artwork, gun smithing takes up all of his time.
A buddy had him build a 338. Sent him all of the components and paid in advance. Took over 3 years to get the finished rifle. Sounded like a nightmare experience.
Post by: yorketransport on February 18, 2016, 09:47:15 PM
A buddy had him build a 338. Sent him all of the components and paid in advance. Took over 3 years to get the finished rifle. Sounded like a nightmare experience.
I've heard this from others too. Great products, innovative designs, obscene lead times! :chuckle:
I've been working on a new idea for a few days now. I need somebody to make me some lead core 600gr VLDs in .458 diameter though. :tup:
:yike: Necked down 50?
Pretty close, 416 Barrett. :tup: The full sized 50 is just excessive!
Post by: JDHasty on February 19, 2016, 06:01:31 AM
When Kirby Allen was frist building me a rifle I was going to go with his 277 Allen Mag which is a 338 Lapua, improved to his shoulder, necked down to .277 but the supply of 169.5 Wildcat bullets ceased to exist so went with a 300AX for the, new then, 230 Bergers.
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I checked out some potential ballistics, this is interesting!
Kirby is an interesting cat, he is married to my cousin. He has logged every bullet he has sent down range going all the way back to when he was a kid. I have some prints of his artwork (a mule deer and a bighorn print, I wish I had more) it is in extremely high demand and sells for a pretty penny these days, it has been decades since he has done any artwork, gun smithing takes up all of his time.
A buddy had him build a 338. Sent him all of the components and paid in advance. Took over 3 years to get the finished rifle. Sounded like a nightmare experience.
Kirby is a one-man shop and people in line ahead of your buddy knew that and people in line behind your buddy knew that going in. How is it that your buddy did not know how long it would be before the rifle was delivered? I have never bought a gun from Kirby, but I have known for well over a decade that it will be many years wait to have Kirby build you a gun.
Post by: jjhunter on February 19, 2016, 07:09:07 AM
When Kirby Allen was frist building me a rifle I was going to go with his 277 Allen Mag which is a 338 Lapua, improved to his shoulder, necked down to .277 but the supply of 169.5 Wildcat bullets ceased to exist so went with a 300AX for the, new then, 230 Bergers.
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I checked out some potential ballistics, this is interesting!
Kirby is an interesting cat, he is married to my cousin. He has logged every bullet he has sent down range going all the way back to when he was a kid. I have some prints of his artwork (a mule deer and a bighorn print, I wish I had more) it is in extremely high demand and sells for a pretty penny these days, it has been decades since he has done any artwork, gun smithing takes up all of his time.
A buddy had him build a 338. Sent him all of the components and paid in advance. Took over 3 years to get the finished rifle. Sounded like a nightmare experience.
Kirby is a one-man shop and people in line ahead of your buddy knew that and people in line behind your buddy knew that going in. How is it that your buddy did not know how long it would be before the rifle was delivered? I have never bought a gun from Kirby, but I have known for well over a decade that it will be many years wait to have Kirby build you a gun.
Most builders are "one man shops" :chuckle:
This is a guy with 20 plus full customs from the best builders all over the country. He is aware of the time frame expectation in receiving a quality product and believe me, he would not send thousands of dollars in components before he knew every detail of your operation and when he could expect the completed product.
I know that it got to the point that he had basically written off ever seeing a completed rifle or his components again. This is very recent.
Post by: jasnt on February 19, 2016, 07:34:37 AM
45/416 Barrett sounds very interesting. Wonder why Berger hasn't expanded their caliber line past 338? 600gr vld in 458 would give the 750 amax a run for its money I'd bet
A buddy had him build a 338. Sent him all of the components and paid in advance. Took over 3 years to get the finished rifle. Sounded like a nightmare experience.
I've heard this from others too. Great products, innovative designs, obscene lead times! :chuckle:I've been working on a new idea for a few days now. I need somebody to make me some lead core 600gr VLDs in .458 diameter though. :tup:
:yike: Necked down 50?
Pretty close, 416 Barrett. :tup: The full sized 50 is just excessive!
Post by: JDHasty on February 19, 2016, 08:24:15 AM
When Kirby Allen was frist building me a rifle I was going to go with his 277 Allen Mag which is a 338 Lapua, improved to his shoulder, necked down to .277 but the supply of 169.5 Wildcat bullets ceased to exist so went with a 300AX for the, new then, 230 Bergers.
But, with Berger now offering a 170gr high BC 270 bullet, a 270-338 Lap. Imp. could be a lot more fun.
A few years ago I talked to Kirby about doing a joint venture on a 375-416Barrett with Kirby's proprietary taper and shoulder angle. I thought it could be a fun project and give a sizable increase in velocity over the 375-408 CHEYTAC imp. stuff but he didn't think the increase would be substantial enough to warrant the expense. I still think a 375-416 Barrett Improved would be pretty cool. There was a guy over on long range hunting dot com that assembled the parts and pieces to build one but if I recall he developed health issues and it never progressed beyond him getting all the stuff to build it.
I checked out some potential ballistics, this is interesting!
Kirby is an interesting cat, he is married to my cousin. He has logged every bullet he has sent down range going all the way back to when he was a kid. I have some prints of his artwork (a mule deer and a bighorn print, I wish I had more) it is in extremely high demand and sells for a pretty penny these days, it has been decades since he has done any artwork, gun smithing takes up all of his time.
A buddy had him build a 338. Sent him all of the components and paid in advance. Took over 3 years to get the finished rifle. Sounded like a nightmare experience.
Kirby is a one-man shop and people in line ahead of your buddy knew that and people in line behind your buddy knew that going in. How is it that your buddy did not know how long it would be before the rifle was delivered? I have never bought a gun from Kirby, but I have known for well over a decade that it will be many years wait to have Kirby build you a gun.
Most builders are "one man shops" :chuckle:
This is a guy with 20 plus full customs from the best builders all over the country. He is aware of the time frame expectation in receiving a quality product and believe me, he would not send thousands of dollars in components before he knew every detail of your operation and when he could expect the completed product.
I know that it got to the point that he had basically written off ever seeing a completed rifle or his components again. This is very recent.
Ten years ago a rifle from Kirby was at least two years out, over five years ago I know that the wait time was something like three years and that is because a guy from work was asking me if I could help to get Kirby to deliver his rifle sooner.
?The line keeps getting longer? No - there is a point at which the long lead time discourages enough potential customers that the lead time steadies at some point and that point seems to be ~ three years wait.
I really don't have much interest in owning one of Kirby's rifles, I shoot chucks and prairie dogs at 60 or 70 - 600 or so yards with rifles ranging from 22 Magnum through 243 Winchester and I have a McMillan stocked Winchester Model 70 in 300 Wby that I shoot big game with out to ~ 450 yards and they suit me just fine. But there are enough guys who are into long range target shooting or extreme range game hunting (including varmint shooting) that Kirby's backlog seemingly keeps getting longer every time I see him. Hey, I get to play with Allen Mags too without having to pay the entry fee.
I suppose that it may have passed the "tipping point" at which enough people will not wait that his inflow may not be exceeding what he can turn out, and the wait may have steadied at ~ three years, but so long as the demand is there as Kirby whittles the wait time down the number of people who are willing to wait will increase as a result.
If you want Kirby to build a rifle for you that is just how it is.
Post by: b23 on February 19, 2016, 09:14:43 AM
Ten years ago a rifle from Kirby was at least two years out, over five years ago I know that the wait time was something like three years and that is because a guy from work was asking me if I could help to get Kirby to deliver his rifle sooner.
?The line keeps getting longer? No - there is a point at which the long lead time discourages enough potential customers that the lead time steadies at some point and that point seems to be ~ three years wait.
I really don't have much interest in owning one of Kirby's rifles, I shoot chucks and prairie dogs at 60 or 70 - 600 or so yards with rifles ranging from 22 Magnum through 243 Winchester and I have a McMillan stocked Winchester Model 70 in 300 Wby that I shoot big game with out to ~ 450 yards and they suit me just fine. But there are enough guys who are into long range target shooting or extreme range game hunting (including varmint shooting) that Kirby's backlog seemingly keeps getting longer every time I see him. Hey, I get to play with Allen Mags too without having to pay the entry fee.
I suppose that it may have passed the "tipping point" at which enough people will not wait that his inflow may not be exceeding what he can turn out, and the wait may have steadied at ~ three years, but so long as the demand is there as Kirby whittles the wait time down the number of people who are willing to wait will increase as a result.
If you want Kirby to build a rifle for you that is just how it is.
I'll say this as respectfully as I can, knowing or maybe being related to Kirby and having a rifle built by him are two VASTLY different things and based on your comments, it's obvious you've never had him build you a rifle because if had, you'd likely be singing a different tune. And as for your ten years ago, five years ago, wait times, you must be the only person that knows about that because it's certainly not what you are told when you start the build.
Post by: JDHasty on February 19, 2016, 09:56:36 AM
Ten years ago a rifle from Kirby was at least two years out, over five years ago I know that the wait time was something like three years and that is because a guy from work was asking me if I could help to get Kirby to deliver his rifle sooner.
?The line keeps getting longer? No - there is a point at which the long lead time discourages enough potential customers that the lead time steadies at some point (reaches equilibrium) and that point seems to be ~ three years wait.
I really don't have much interest in owning one of Kirby's rifles, I shoot chucks and prairie dogs at 60 or 70 - 600 or so yards with rifles ranging from 22 Magnum through 243 Winchester and I have a McMillan stocked Winchester Model 70 in 300 Wby that I shoot big game with out to ~ 450 yards and they suit me just fine. But there are enough guys who are into long range target shooting or extreme range game hunting (including varmint shooting) that Kirby's backlog seemingly keeps getting longer every time I see him. Hey, I get to play with Allen Mags too without having to pay the entry fee.
I suppose that it may have passed the "tipping point" at which enough people will not wait that his inflow may not be exceeding what he can turn out, and the wait may have steadied at ~ three years, but so long as the demand is there as Kirby whittles the wait time down the number of people who are willing to wait will increase as a result.
If you want Kirby to build a rifle for you that is just how it is.
I'll say this as respectfully as I can, knowing or maybe being related to Kirby and having a rifle built by him are two VASTLY different things and based on your comments, it's obvious you've never had him build you a rifle because if had, you'd likely be singing a different tune. And as for your ten years ago, five years ago, wait times, you must be the only person that knows about that because it's certainly not what you are told when you start the build.
What I can say about that is: I have had complete strangers say to me that they have been waiting ... and are waiting and will have been waiting a total of ~ three years to get their new rifle from Kirby by the time they get it. And I have had others say that they would like to have Kirby build them a rifle, but do not want to wait three years to get it. And I have had others say: I waited three years for this rifle and savored every minute of it.
To be quite honest this is the very first experience I have with anyone ever saying that they were not aware going in of what the lead time is/has been on Kirby's rifles.
Hand craftsmanship takes time, I have a deer at Charlie Smith's and was told two years - minimum. The only reason it wasn't longer is because there are a lot of guys who won't or can't wait to get their mount back two years after dropping it off. It is is more important for them to seek satisfaction elsewhere than to have Charlie do the work and wait two years.
Post by: jjhunter on February 19, 2016, 10:05:26 AM
Post by: JDHasty on February 19, 2016, 10:12:41 AM
It is not at all uncommon for some of the very first posts made on a thread mentioning Kirby's rifles for this to be the pattern. I am not a special pleader for anybody, but in this case "who am I going to believe, you or my own lying eyes?"
That is also what I have experienced when the topic of Kirby's rifles has come up at the gun club or anywhere else for that matter and there are individuals around who have experience dealing with Kirby.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/kirby-allen-rifles-29783/
Post by: yorketransport on February 21, 2016, 10:25:46 AM
Here is a thread that is closing in on a decade old. You don't get past five posts into it before there is mention made of the significant wait for Kirby to build a rifle. This was just one of the first threads that came up when I did an internet search for Kirby Allen Rifles.
It is not at all uncommon for some of the very first posts made on a thread mentioning Kirby's rifles for this to be the pattern. I am not a special pleader for anybody, but in this case "who am I going to believe, you or my own lying eyes?"
That is also what I have experienced when the topic of Kirby's rifles has come up at the gun club or anywhere else for that matter and there are individuals around who have experience dealing with Kirby.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/kirby-allen-rifles-29783/
It's important to step back and take an objective look at the situation. It appears you have personal connection to Allen Precision (you've made reference to the relationship multiple times) so it can be hard to step back and not come to the defense of friends/family. Sometimes personal bias clouds objective thinking though.
I have/had some guns built by top name smiths which take years to build a gun. They're great guns and the detail and finish work are top notch. Or I can have a local guy slap together a pile of parts in a couple of weeks/months and get a finished product which performs just as well for a fraction of the cost in a fraction of the time. I had Benchmark build my 338/375 Ruger Stiker and it took 11 months and about $700. I love it, but that's 11 months to rebarrel a Savage. I had the idea to rebarrel my 243 Striker to 284 Winchester. I called a distributor for McGowen barrels, got a 19" varmint contour .284 blank sent to my door in about 2 weeks for about $200. Then I sent it to a buddy of mine who works in a machine shop. He's not a gunsmith, but a good machinist is a good machinist and the principals are the same. He had my barrel threaded and chambered in 2 lunch brakes for $50. I screwed the barrel onto the action and headspaced it on the tailgate of my truck while out in the woods and was shooting within 15 minutes. Wouldn't you know, I had a gun that shoots just as well as the one built by Benchmark, but built in less than 4 weeks from idea to test firing for the sum of $250.
For people like me who are constantly tinkering and have firearms ADHD, having to wait years for a project to be done is brutal! Right now I'm having a specialty pistol built which is requiring every part of it to be custom made, from the action to the stock, barrel, reamers and dies. In the time it's taken to get that project going (I'm into this over a year from the time of the initial idea) I've gotten bored and had 3 other projects done and started a 4th. Some of those were done by local shops (Grizz Precision) who did great work with very reasonable rates/turnaround times measured in weeks not years.
Post by: JDHasty on February 21, 2016, 01:58:35 PM
What I am saying is that the reason Kirby is ~ three years out is that is where the line of people who want an Allen rifle has reached equilibrium. There are only so many hours in a day and Kirby is a family man and has other obligations other than to customers too. He works probably north of 60 hours/week and he has made a decision not to farm out work or hire assistants.
I have a hard time getting my mind around a person not being aware of the wait if he is familiar enough with Kirby's work to order a rifle. The reason I say that is because the topic of Kirby's rifles seldom comes up wherein one or more people weigh in on the substantial lead time.
What is more, when a Kirby Allen rifle is up for sale one of the first things that is said is: "without waiting three years."
Accusations were thrown out for consideration (reckless accusations in my view), I responded with fact and backed up that fact with hard evidence validating it.