Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: skeeter 20i on February 29, 2016, 11:44:17 AM

Title: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: skeeter 20i on February 29, 2016, 11:44:17 AM: I am trying another powder out of my Tikka T3 lite a 139SST. Anyway this 3 shot string showed almost zero vertical change @100yds now correct me if I'm wrong here but this is a good thing yes? I can attribute the horizontal to varying L to R wind but the vertical staying consistent tells me I want to retest that string with a 5 shot group to prove the load. I've just never seen them line up like that horizontally so I was curious what you all have to say.

Sorry if it's a NOOB question but I'm still learning.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: DRobnsn on February 29, 2016, 12:16:56 PM: How much wind?
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: bobcat on February 29, 2016, 12:22:49 PM: That's quite a spread in your point of impact. I wouldn't expect that the wind was the cause of that at only 100 yards. But maybe it was, just depends on what the wind was doing. But if it were windy enough to move your bullets around that much, I wouldn't have been shooting for groups.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: Kittman on February 29, 2016, 12:23:52 PM: Things that come to my mind- Is the barrel warming up getting hot and contacting the stock somewhere? All free-floated? I would re-check scope fasteners for security also.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: jackelope on February 29, 2016, 12:40:17 PM: A friend told me that left to right stringing is trigger torque.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: skeeter 20i on February 29, 2016, 12:44:00 PM: The other groups were acting the way I would expect as for rounds coming together and then spreading out. The 1/2 gr prior was 2 out of 3 touching but I pulled one flyer and it will probably be the "dial it in" load but the horizontal spread just had me curious since I'd never seen one do that.

I was wondering if this was lending itself to the "ladder tests" type scenario where you look for very little vertical change. I thought it might be wind and or the trigger man or a combination of both, I just ran the numbers and I should have only been getting ±.25moa/5mph of wind at that distance and I would guess we were 10-15mph of wind.

Perhaps I should just chalk it up to :dunno: I was planning to re-shoot the string @5 shots without changing anything to see. It just had me scratching my head.

I need to get started building the loads for the .243 this 7mm target shooting for groups every weekend is going to wear my brass out.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: CaNINE on February 29, 2016, 02:22:20 PM: I'm no expert but here are some ideas...

One thing I've learned from reloading and load development is that it's really difficult to diagnose something based off of one data point. The other thing I've learned is that developing a good load take A LOT of time and adjustment in brass prep, seating depth, component manipulation, etc, etc, etc. I had no idea how complicated precision loading was and still learn something new everytime I go to the range. Sometimes I get lucky but usually developing THE load takes weeks or months.

Based upon my limited expertise here are some thoughts...

1. Your consistent vertical tells me your loads probably have very consistent velocity. This is good.
2. The variation in horizontal is probably barrel timing. Meaning, that this particular velocity is not quite in the sweet spot to product the lowest barrel harmonics.
3. I would go up or down in 0.5 grain increments to see if the group improves.
4. Then start adjusting seating depth to fine tune the amount of jump to best match your barrel timing.
5. How many brass sizing cycles do you run before you anneal? Consistent neck tension is extremely important to repeatable results. Ive proved to myself that it's so important that I'm now annealing every other brass cycle and may just do it every time. It's that important.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: high country on February 29, 2016, 04:14:39 PM: First off, 3 shot groups are tough to diagnose unless you have several. I'd first inspect my scope and run around the box groups to ensure its tracking properly. If that is a pass, I'd have someone else shoot it and pay close attention to form. The way you mount the rifle can have effects. If this has,not revealed anything I'd play with my seating depth about. 025" each way and repeat.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: Bill W on February 29, 2016, 04:18:25 PM: I would check out the stability of your rest for one thing and how your rifle fits in it. There's other things to look at after that.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: Reidus on February 29, 2016, 05:40:28 PM: 1 three shot group is not enough to pull any serious conclusions from. If you can duplicate this, then you may be onto something. :twocents:
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: kisfish on February 29, 2016, 05:53:12 PM: tagging along
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on February 29, 2016, 05:56:52 PM: Lead Sled.....
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: HawkCreek on February 29, 2016, 06:59:58 PM: If the load previous the one pictured was touching I'd load up a few batches of both and test them both out carefully. As long as you know the barrel isn't making contact somewhere stringing like that can be caused by improper trigger finger technique or improper alignment i.e. "muscling" the rifle (depending on the shooting position can be more or less).
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: 2labs on February 29, 2016, 07:04:17 PM: I think you might have a load your rifle likes! That horizontal string is almost perfecto!
:twocents:
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: Blacklab on March 01, 2016, 10:45:41 AM: Quote from: jackelope on February 29, 2016, 12:40:17 PM
A friend told me that left to right stringing is trigger torque.

:yeah:

Very well could be if your right handed ;)

First I'd check scope
second trigger pull
third load development/seating depth

Just like elbows everybody has a couple.............. :chuckle: ;)
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: TheHunt on March 01, 2016, 11:09:48 AM: Quote from: CAMPMEAT on February 29, 2016, 05:56:52 PM
Lead Sled.....

Be careful with lead sled if you run cheap scopes as I have seen two scopes have issues.
Title: Re: Reloading: Please help me interpret a target.
Post by: skeeter 20i on March 01, 2016, 03:35:05 PM: I appreciate everyone's input. I'm pretty sure the gear is good I ran another load after shooting this one to "Proof" out a recipe for seating depth with very good results. I agree that one 3 shot string isn't enough to draw any meaningful conclusions from but it is my "step 1" if you will.

Its going to be a long week I can't get back out until this weekend after the in-laws leave. :bash: