Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: BULLBLASTER on March 22, 2016, 10:15:23 AM

Title: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 22, 2016, 10:15:23 AM: I'm kicking around the idea of buying an annealing machine and would like to know if anyone on here uses one and what kind?

Looking at the giraud tool one or the ballistic edge.

I know you can do with a torch and drill etc but want the most consistent outcome if I'm going to bother.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: rbros on March 23, 2016, 06:02:36 PM: I use girauds in the shop. They need a regulator on them, the valve on their torch sucks. After adding the regulator it works great.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 23, 2016, 09:01:46 PM: That's the direction I was leaning. And have read about the regulators.
What regulator are you using?
Thanks for the input
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 09:05:45 AM: I've been mulling this over too but I've been very happy with my hand anealing. I'm sure they are not perfect but they are better than not doing it at all. My Es and sd are low and I've got 243 cases with 96 loadings now with out a single split neck.

Guess I'm trying to say if it ain't broke....
It's really not that hard to be consistant anealing by hand. I even aneal my 44mag brass
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2016, 09:49:56 AM: Personally, I fully support Bullblaster's decision to purchase an annealing machine. In fact, I will even volunteer to let him test it on 300 pieces of 300wsm brass I have :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 11:11:29 AM: :chuckle: I didn't say I didn't support it. I was just having trouble justifying buying one my self when I've already got a good system for doing so. It's easier than it sounds. There is a lot of miss information out there on anealing. I've taken it too far on purpose to see what it would do and it took a long time to heat it too much. After the faint glow you get a brownish glow then some smoke and the neck miss-shapes. This took about a min of heat with map gas and spun at 1 rotation a sec
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 11:38:58 AM: I'm kind of half thinking I could unload some brass if I got an annealer.
The. I can make a sign that says "will anneal brass for hamburgers and beer"
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2016, 12:12:13 PM: Don't trust him Chris!!! He's trying to trick you with his forked tongue! Everyone knows you can't successfully anneal brass without a machine! Its Science :yeah: He shoots a .243 for gods sake! Can you truly trust a man who shoots a childs gun :dunno: He's probably a lefty as well..................just saying :twocents:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 12:21:33 PM: Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 12:12:13 PM
Don't trust him Chris!!! He's trying to trick you with his forked tongue! Everyone knows you can't successfully anneal brass without a machine! Its Science :yeah: He shoots a .243 for gods sake! Can you truly trust a man who shoots a childs gun :dunno: He's probably a lefty as well..................just saying :twocents:
:chuckle: I met jasnt once and he didn't look like the type of dude I want to give too much crap to! :yike:!
I'll never say doing it by hand won't work because there really isn't that much too it. Use torch to hear brass and then let it cool. Not rocket science but sometimes I get ocd and it would bother me if they weren't all exactly the same. :chuckle:
These dang ideas take over my mind and I can't help it! :dunno:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2016, 12:26:59 PM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 12:12:13 PM
Don't trust him Chris!!! He's trying to trick you with his forked tongue! Everyone knows you can't successfully anneal brass without a machine! Its Science :yeah: He shoots a .243 for gods sake! Can you truly trust a man who shoots a childs gun :dunno: He's probably a lefty as well..................just saying :twocents:
:chuckle: I met jasnt once and he didn't look like the type of dude I want to give too much crap to! :yike:!
I'll never say doing it by hand won't work because there really isn't that much too it. Use torch to hear brass and then let it cool. Not rocket science but sometimes I get ocd and it would bother me if they weren't all exactly the same. :chuckle:
These dang ideas take over my mind and I can't help it! :dunno:
See his lefty, .243 shooting, ginger (guess based on science) Voodoo ways are swaying you! Trust me, as someone who has annealed by hand for a long time, its horrible! How in the heck do you expect me....um I mean you to get truly perfect brass without a $500 machine! The answer.....you can't!!! Figure it out science :yeah:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 12:43:52 PM: Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 12:26:59 PM
Quote from: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 12:12:13 PM
Don't trust him Chris!!! He's trying to trick you with his forked tongue! Everyone knows you can't successfully anneal brass without a machine! Its Science :yeah: He shoots a .243 for gods sake! Can you truly trust a man who shoots a childs gun :dunno: He's probably a lefty as well..................just saying :twocents:
:chuckle: I met jasnt once and he didn't look like the type of dude I want to give too much crap to! :yike:!
I'll never say doing it by hand won't work because there really isn't that much too it. Use torch to hear brass and then let it cool. Not rocket science but sometimes I get ocd and it would bother me if they weren't all exactly the same. :chuckle:
These dang ideas take over my mind and I can't help it! :dunno:
See his lefty, .243 shooting, ginger (guess based on science) Voodoo ways are swaying you! Trust me, as someone who has annealed by hand for a long time, its horrible! How in the heck do you expect me....um I mean you to get truly perfect brass without a $500 machine! The answer.....you can't!!! Figure it out science :yeah:
:chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Bill W on March 26, 2016, 12:50:29 PM: I would think a Redding bushing neck sizing die would be another way to go. I've used this on a .30BR and a 6PPC. It takes a long time to wear those cases out.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 03:51:41 PM: :chuckle: thanks Chris I can take the razzing Plus I like blrman most of the time :chuckle: I understand wanting machine consistancey. Even with an anealing machine you will have a learning curve. You will also need to dial it in for your brass and it will be different for some calibers. I'd love to see you buy it and then we could do a test to see which way works best lol you can aneal half my brass and I'll do the other. Then see how they size for the next 3 loadings. :tup:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 04:25:56 PM: Quote from: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
:chuckle: thanks Chris I can take the razzing Plus I like blrman most of the time :chuckle: I understand wanting machine consistancey. Even with an anealing machine you will have a learning curve. You will also need to dial it in for your brass and it will be different for some calibers. I'd love to see you buy it and then we could do a test to see which way works best lol you can aneal half my brass and I'll do the other. Then see how they size for the next 3 loadings. :tup:
oh ya I know about the learning curve. I have used a buddies giraud machine to do all my brass and each was different. Even then the torch is never repeatable unless you pay more for a regulator. I like your idea of a test as long as you buy components and I can help with the shooting part of the 3 sizings! :chuckle:
I also realize I won't ever get enough use of the thing by myself to make it pay for itself but my buddies would get use of it too. And they bring awesome stuff to the table too! Like sewing and beer and I heard Karl knows a little about mule deer. :dunno:

Also brand new brass always shoots the best for me so I want to try and replicate that best I can
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 04:41:38 PM: I've got a brand new 50 lot of Norma brass I haven't touched yet and about 3000 243 projectiles :chuckle: and probably enough powder and primes to burn this barrel out twice. I'm down :tup:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2016, 04:53:10 PM: See, it's settled then! Chris will buy it and we will abuse his friendship by using his fancy toy more than him! :chuckle: I'll have a shiny new toy in July that will need playing with :tup:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 05:14:59 PM: Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 04:53:10 PM
See, it's settled then! Chris will buy it and we will abuse his friendship by using his fancy toy more than him! :chuckle: I'll have a shiny new toy in July that will need playing with :tup:
That fancy new stick of yours will need the brass to be annealed!
Quote from: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 04:41:38 PM
I've got a brand new 50 lot of Norma brass I haven't touched yet and about 3000 243 projectiles :chuckle: and probably enough powder and primes to burn this barrel out twice. I'm down :tup:
Can those 50 brass make it through all 3000 pills!?
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 05:22:38 PM: Yes
Quote from: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 05:14:59 PM
Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 04:53:10 PM
See, it's settled then! Chris will buy it and we will abuse his friendship by using his fancy toy more than him! :chuckle: I'll have a shiny new toy in July that will need playing with :tup:
That fancy new stick of yours will need the brass to be annealed!
Quote from: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 04:41:38 PM
I've got a brand new 50 lot of Norma brass I haven't touched yet and about 3000 243 projectiles :chuckle: and probably enough powder and primes to burn this barrel out twice. I'm down :tup:
Can those 50 brass make it through all 3000 pills!?
the above mentioned 243 brass was a 30 lot. When I finish shooting those the lot will have shot 2400,Hornady brass. I think that too could be part of the test lol
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2016, 05:31:25 PM: Hey we could just skip your wedding and go shooting chris! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 05:42:05 PM: Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 05:31:25 PM
Hey we could just skip your wedding and go shooting chris! :chuckle:
Pretty sure that would put us both in the ground!!
And I wouldn't get to go to New Zealand then! That'll never work :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2016, 05:50:56 PM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 05:42:05 PM
Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 05:31:25 PM
Hey we could just skip your wedding and go shooting chris! :chuckle:
Pretty sure that would put us both in the ground!!
And I wouldn't get to go to New Zealand then! That'll never work :chuckle:
good point. Hey would have Jared be a stand in! He's tall and ugly too, she'd never know :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 06:01:04 PM: Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 05:50:56 PM
Quote from: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 05:42:05 PM
Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 05:31:25 PM
Hey we could just skip your wedding and go shooting chris! :chuckle:
Pretty sure that would put us both in the ground!!
And I wouldn't get to go to New Zealand then! That'll never work :chuckle:
good point. Hey would have Jared be a stand in! He's tall and ugly too, she'd never know :chuckle:
:chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: coop2424 on March 26, 2016, 09:30:53 PM: I keep trying to get him to let me come to New Zealand but he won't ask.. What kind of friend is he... Just buy the annealer so we can use it already.. You know you want too..
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 26, 2016, 09:45:05 PM: Quote from: coop2424 on March 26, 2016, 09:30:53 PM
I keep trying to get him to let me come to New Zealand but he won't ask.. What kind of friend is he... Just buy the annealer so we can use it already.. You know you want too..
Finally!!! Another enabler jumps in! :tup:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 26, 2016, 10:25:13 PM: Quote from: BLRman on March 26, 2016, 09:45:05 PM
Quote from: coop2424 on March 26, 2016, 09:30:53 PM
I keep trying to get him to let me come to New Zealand but he won't ask.. What kind of friend is he... Just buy the annealer so we can use it already.. You know you want too..
Finally!!! Another enabler jumps in! :tup:
Oh hh. He's the original enabler.... Well... Him and another unmentionable character... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 11:01:33 PM: So which machine you been looking at????
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 27, 2016, 09:57:48 AM: Quote from: jasnt on March 26, 2016, 11:01:33 PM
So which machine you been looking at????
Most likely the giraud.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 27, 2016, 12:20:51 PM: One tip for anealing I was giving and I'm not sure how accurate the info is but it makes sense to me. Use a very large cooling tank. If the water temp changes much threw your batch then you can loose consistancey. I use a large tub with ice water. That way I can keep it the same temp threw the whole process. Faster you Heat and then cool the brass the less heat creep you get in the shoulder and below.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 27, 2016, 01:28:24 PM: You mentioned using a drill? Fill me in on that a bit if you could. I've just always torched then water bathed. What's the drill for?
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 27, 2016, 01:50:45 PM: Quote from: BLRman on March 27, 2016, 01:28:24 PM
You mentioned using a drill? Fill me in on that a bit if you could. I've just always torched then water bathed. What's the drill for?
To rotate the case in the flame
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on March 27, 2016, 02:05:17 PM: I use a cordless drill to spin them very slowly to keep the heat even. I made a bit with a thin layered aluminum walled "socket" to block the heat from the shoulder. The case slips in easy and still shrouds the shoulder. Only the neck is above the shroud. I focus the blue tip of the flame centered on the neck and spin slow as the drill will spin which for my drill is about 60 rpm. I do this in the dark with only the light of the flame. I like to start with fowler brass to get the timing. Soon as the neck gets an even orange glow I dump it in the ice water and start on the next case. Depending on the torch it's around 6-9 sec a case with my propane torch or 2 with the cutting torch turned way down to tiny flame (propane and oxygen) which is my fav method. I like to resize( neck only) them in the sonic cleaner for 30 min then aneal. Then size neck and trim. I used to aneal every 5th loading but lately I been doing it on the 3rd.
Been doing it this way for a few years not and have reloaded the brass like I said 96 loadings on my oldest lot of brass. Not one split neck. Every peace of brass grows very slowly after fire form and most trimmings (now each 3rd loading) im trimming around .001-.0015. I also aneal my 44 mag brass and have a 100 batch at 18 loadings with cast(resize and flaring mouths then crimping) also with not one split case or any other culling.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: coop2424 on March 27, 2016, 02:05:36 PM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on March 27, 2016, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: BLRman on March 27, 2016, 01:28:24 PM
You mentioned using a drill? Fill me in on that a bit if you could. I've just always torched then water bathed. What's the drill for?
To rotate the case in the flame

Glad we have an engineer around to help us out!!
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 27, 2016, 02:38:04 PM: Good stuff! Thanks :tup:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 06:28:31 PM: Thought I'd update this post. I ordered the giraud and it arrived in late April. I've been using the heck out of it seems to do a pretty dang good job.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on July 07, 2016, 08:36:46 PM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 06:28:31 PM
Thought I'd update this post. I ordered the giraud and it arrived in late April. I've been using the heck out of it seems to do a pretty dang good job.
it is super cool. Glad we bought it!
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 08:42:53 PM: Quote from: BLRman on July 07, 2016, 08:36:46 PM
Quote from: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 06:28:31 PM
Thought I'd update this post. I ordered the giraud and it arrived in late April. I've been using the heck out of it seems to do a pretty dang good job.
it is super cool. Glad we bought it!
:dunno: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 08:49:20 PM: Just charge him .10 a piece of brass Chris. Or make him give you 4 spots of his Google Earth file.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on July 07, 2016, 08:56:42 PM: Quote from: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 08:49:20 PM
Just charge him .10 a piece of brass Chris. Or make him give you 4 spots of his Google Earth file.
Hey man he's getting 6.5 and .280 AI brass this weekend so zip it :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 09:17:09 PM: Quote from: BLRman on July 07, 2016, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 08:49:20 PM
Just charge him .10 a piece of brass Chris. Or make him give you 4 spots of his Google Earth file.
Hey man he's getting 6.5 and .280 AI brass this weekend so zip it :chuckle:
Oh I like the 10 c a piece idea. :chuckle: ... And the shiny headed dwarf already owes me a few X marks on maps! :yike:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on July 07, 2016, 09:45:43 PM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 09:17:09 PM
Quote from: BLRman on July 07, 2016, 08:56:42 PM
Quote from: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 08:49:20 PM
Just charge him .10 a piece of brass Chris. Or make him give you 4 spots of his Google Earth file.
Hey man he's getting 6.5 and .280 AI brass this weekend so zip it :chuckle:
Oh I like the 10 c a piece idea. :chuckle: ... And the shiny headed dwarf already owes me a few X marks on maps! :yike:
hahaha. Pay up blr
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 09:50:40 PM: Hate to see my buddy having to owe you. I raided his files....
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 09:55:08 PM: Quote from: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 09:50:40 PM
Hate to see my buddy having to owe you. I raided his files....
:chuckle: good work! whit wins the internet today.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on July 07, 2016, 10:01:25 PM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 09:55:08 PM
Quote from: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 09:50:40 PM
Hate to see my buddy having to owe you. I raided his files....
:chuckle: good work! whit wins the internet today.
:yeah: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Karl Blanchard on July 07, 2016, 10:02:41 PM: Hey Coop and Jon S pitched in on this thing too! We all ponied up equal amounts of encouragement and peer pressure :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: coop2424 on July 07, 2016, 10:17:25 PM: Quote from: BLRman on July 07, 2016, 10:02:41 PM
Hey Coop and Jon S pitched in on this thing too! We all ponied up equal amounts of encouragement and peer pressure :chuckle:

That's right great group buy.. Can't wait to pick up my brass this weekend and drop some more off.. Thanks Chris!!
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jasnt on July 07, 2016, 10:18:46 PM: Quote from: BLRman on July 07, 2016, 10:02:41 PM
Hey Coop and Jon S pitched in on this thing too! We all ponied up equal amounts of encouragement and peer pressure :chuckle:
lmao 🙃
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jrebel on July 07, 2016, 10:37:30 PM: www.annealeez.com

Anyone ever use this machine? Looks pretty simple and relatively cheap.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: pd on July 07, 2016, 10:38:24 PM: Quote from: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 09:50:40 PM
Hate to see my buddy having to owe you. I raided his files....

OMG. Whitpirate, that is too funny. I have just stolen your map for my profile. I almost broke my gut laughing. Thank you!
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: Whitpirate on July 07, 2016, 11:03:59 PM: Glad I could help.
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jackelope on July 08, 2016, 06:20:35 AM: Thanks Chris. I just saved that map to eliminate a bunch of scouting time.
:tup:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: rudysts on July 08, 2016, 06:37:22 AM: http://www.ampannealing.com/

This one has it down to a science for 1K
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: jackelope on July 08, 2016, 07:57:04 AM: Hold the phone here a minute. Is that X notating the elk spot in GMU 334?
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 08, 2016, 08:04:11 AM: Quote from: jackelope on July 08, 2016, 07:57:04 AM
Hold the phone here a minute. Is that X notating the elk spot in GMU 334?
Shhh! That map was meant for my eyes only! Everyone else please disregard. :yike:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: andersonjk4 on July 08, 2016, 09:04:50 AM: Quote from: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 06:28:31 PM
Thought I'd update this post. I ordered the giraud and it arrived in late April. I've been using the heck out of it seems to do a pretty dang good job.

So now that you have had some time to perfect the craft..... I have a bunch of brass and a case of beer..... :dunno: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Annealing machines?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on July 08, 2016, 09:09:03 AM: Quote from: andersonjk4 on July 08, 2016, 09:04:50 AM
Quote from: BULLBLASTER on July 07, 2016, 06:28:31 PM
Thought I'd update this post. I ordered the giraud and it arrived in late April. I've been using the heck out of it seems to do a pretty dang good job.

So now that you have had some time to perfect the craft..... I have a bunch of brass and a case of beer..... :dunno: :chuckle:
Bring it on buddy! :tup: I can anneal anything except the cheytac and bmg cases.