Post by: jdb on April 07, 2016, 05:58:50 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 07, 2016, 07:10:30 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on April 07, 2016, 07:16:31 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 07, 2016, 07:19:27 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on April 07, 2016, 07:30:52 PM
Post by: b.roberts on April 07, 2016, 07:36:14 PM
For normal day to day carry, there are much better options.
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Post by: hoytem on April 07, 2016, 07:45:51 PM
Post by: Wingin it on April 07, 2016, 07:50:01 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 07, 2016, 07:50:56 PM
Post by: jdb on April 07, 2016, 07:56:48 PM
Post by: huntingfool7 on April 07, 2016, 07:58:43 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on April 07, 2016, 08:01:39 PM
The biggest downside to a .22 for defense is that the ammo is more likely to result in a dud than centerfire ammo. May not be an issue with a revolver but a semi auto could quickly become just a blunt object to hit with. The little Beretta Bobcat is a great carry gun but it would require a pocket knife to clear a dud.
^ that
Assuming we are looking to protect ourselves from two legged threats? If you put a .22 round in the kill zone the target will die, at least eventually. The problem is that a .22 is lacking a bit in the power punch knock down zone. The threat may just keep coming at you before they expire. I would definitely opt for something larger if at all possible.
^ + that .
Yes a .22lr that cuts the hepatic artery will lead to mortality... a lot slower than a round from a 9mm or .38 Special. No, you don't need a 10mm or .45ACP, but use enough gun. :twocents:
Post by: whackmaster on April 07, 2016, 08:43:05 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 07, 2016, 08:51:32 PM
Post by: Dan-o on April 07, 2016, 08:54:56 PM
I know it would stop me.
Post by: 2labs on April 07, 2016, 08:58:06 PM
Post by: HighlandLofts on April 07, 2016, 09:43:58 PM
wouldn't be the first choice, but would take it if it was all I had. Hinkley used a .22 revolver.
But Reagan & Brady lived a good many years afterwards, if Hinkley would of used a larger caliber handgun more then likely both Reagan and Brady would bite the big one.
Hoffa on the other hand...............................................................
Post by: huntnphool on April 07, 2016, 10:41:17 PM
The biggest downside to a .22 for defense is that the ammo is more likely to result in a dud than centerfire ammo. May not be an issue with a revolver but a semi auto could quickly become just a blunt object to hit with. The little Beretta Bobcat is a great carry gun but it would require a pocket knife to clear a dud.
The OP didn't specify rimfire.
I carry a .22 caliber daily, low recoil, high capacity, long range, light weight, armor piercing, and I've never had a dud. ;)
Post by: Sliverslinger on April 07, 2016, 11:15:26 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 07, 2016, 11:44:30 PM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
Post by: Duckslayer89 on April 08, 2016, 12:15:17 AM
The biggest downside to a .22 for defense is that the ammo is more likely to result in a dud than centerfire ammo. May not be an issue with a revolver but a semi auto could quickly become just a blunt object to hit with. The little Beretta Bobcat is a great carry gun but it would require a pocket knife to clear a dud.
I never thought of this, good point
Post by: Squidward on April 08, 2016, 06:55:45 AM
Post by: runamuk on April 08, 2016, 07:04:42 AM
Anyone carry a .22 pistol concealed?yes
Post by: CP on April 08, 2016, 07:10:38 AM
Post by: theleo on April 08, 2016, 08:58:53 AM
What if you had a .22 that you knew inside and out, fired on a weekly basis. Let's say you took a job as like sheep herder and you carried a .22 pistol for vermin and you shot it daily and accuralty like it's almost an extension of you. Within reason if you see something that you want to shoot you draw and shoot and it's just second nature. Then would a .22 pistol be acceptable for carry? I'm just making conversation not advocating just trying to get an interesting discussion
I'd think in that case you're moving more towards an open carry size pistol. A 4" Colt Woodsman might be a good compromise though.
Post by: Special T on April 08, 2016, 09:54:18 AM
A 22 pistol will stop almost anyone..... likely without firing a shot.My brother snatched one out of a guys hand while pointed at him and beat the piss out him with it. Id carry something bigger.
I know it would stop me.
Post by: Special T on April 08, 2016, 09:58:29 AM
I would not go buy one but if it was what I had, well ok then. If I needed a summertime pocket gun id either go with an airlight $357 or a bond style derriger in what ever caliber gun I already owned. I think you get a good deal on multipal barrels when you buy the gun.
Post by: Alchase on April 08, 2016, 10:26:13 AM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
Phool,
Nidal used a FN Five-seven pistol Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver.
Post by: magnanimous_j on April 08, 2016, 11:00:49 AM
Most days I just carry a pocket knife, and in a fight, I'd much rather have the .22 than that, so I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
Post by: huntnphool on April 08, 2016, 11:02:14 AM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
Phool,
Nidal used a FN Five-seven pistol Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver.
A 357 was found on him, but all his victims were shot with the .22 caliber FiveSeveN. :twocents:
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 08, 2016, 11:31:06 AM
1) A gun for self defense needs to be reliable first. .22 ammo is made cheap and quick even the "good stuff". Ive had stingers fail badly in good guns. Center fire ammo IS more reliable.
2) Like the ammo the guns that chamber the round tend to be just as cheap and unreliable. the .22LR is a rimed cartridge and was never meant for semi autos again leaving you open to more failures. that leaves revolvers as the most reliable for .22LR, but even revolvers have their draw backs.
3) Effectiveness of a .22LR is not as good as the larger calibers. CAN it penetrate deep enough? yes. CAN it cause damage to organs or nervous systems? yes. Is it the right too for the job when you put in the same group as other firearms? no. Considering size and weight is generally similar to .380s or 9mm its weak in comparison.
As for the a .22LR is "all you can handle". unless you have an actual medical condition or disability that prevents you from firing larger calibers...man up. The people that say they can only handle a .22LR and don't have a medical condition need training. I've seen an 80 year old lady fire .357, don't tell me you cant handle a .380 or 9mm. start with .22 and train and practice you can handle something bigger.
Rant over
Carry the best tool for the job, nothing smaller than .380. :twocents:
Post by: b23 on April 08, 2016, 11:40:15 AM
I think the argument could easily be made that the average, infrequent, shooter could likely make more on target hits with a 22 than they could with a centerfire and probably a lot more, rapid fire, on target hits with a 22, also. For those that practice their shooting skills as well as practice different scenarios for how to react and what to do in the event they'll have to draw their CCW, a centerfire is likely going to be a much better choice for them. That's my 2 cent opinion.
Post by: NW-GSP on April 08, 2016, 03:24:55 PM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
That was a fnh five seven. That is completely different then a .22 long rifle
Post by: huntnphool on April 08, 2016, 03:31:15 PM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
That was a fnh five seven. That is completely different then a .22 long rifle
The OP never specified "rimfire" or "long rifle", he said .22, which includes the FiveSeven and .22 Mag, yes they are completely different, but still .22 caliber.
Was his intent the .22LR? :dunno:
Post by: NW-GSP on April 08, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
That was a fnh five seven. That is completely different then a .22 long rifle
The OP never specified "rimfire" or "long rifle", he said .22, which includes the FiveSeven and .22 Mag, yes they are completely different, but still .22 caliber.
Was his intent the .22LR? :dunno:
Might as well as include 556 then also, that's a 22 cal bullet.
Post by: Westside88 on April 08, 2016, 04:05:32 PM
Post by: Bofire on April 08, 2016, 04:47:14 PM
Carl
Post by: Dan-o on April 08, 2016, 06:26:48 PM
A 22 pistol will stop almost anyone..... likely without firing a shot.My brother snatched one out of a guys hand while pointed at him and beat the piss out him with it. Id carry something bigger.
I know it would stop me.
Does the fact that your brother snatched the pistol have anything to do with the fact that is was a 22?
If it had been a 357, would that be too heavy to snatch, or what am I missing?
Post by: Dan-o on April 08, 2016, 06:29:46 PM
And only if I was gona pull the trigger.
I would not go buy one but if it was what I had, well ok then. If I needed a summertime pocket gun id either go with an airlight $357 or a bond style derriger in what ever caliber gun I already owned. I think you get a good deal on multipal barrels when you buy the gun.
Agreed that I would not carry unless I was willing to shoot........ and I do carry.
But my point was simply that you can stop a lot of aggression with the mere presence of a firearm. But again, don't pull it if you won't use it.
Post by: huntnphool on April 08, 2016, 10:29:28 PM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
That was a fnh five seven. That is completely different then a .22 long rifle
The OP never specified "rimfire" or "long rifle", he said .22, which includes the FiveSeven and .22 Mag, yes they are completely different, but still .22 caliber.
Was his intent the .22LR? :dunno:
Might as well as include 556 then also, that's a 22 cal bullet.
That's the point, .22 caliber bullets are plenty leathal.
Post by: grundy53 on April 09, 2016, 05:46:59 AM
Not me. I might take a .22 mag over nothing at all, but a .22lr is kind of a joke to me. :twocents:Would you volunteer to be shot by one? .22's are not a joke. That's just a perception. One that would change if this discussion was moved from the theoretical to the real world.
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Post by: grundy53 on April 09, 2016, 05:48:51 AM
Agreed. I don't see how caliber is even relevant in that situation?A 22 pistol will stop almost anyone..... likely without firing a shot.My brother snatched one out of a guys hand while pointed at him and beat the piss out him with it. Id carry something bigger.
I know it would stop me.
Does the fact that your brother snatched the pistol have anything to do with the fact that is was a 22?
If it had been a 357, would that be too heavy to snatch, or what am I missing?
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: NW-GSP on April 09, 2016, 05:59:38 AM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
That was a fnh five seven. That is completely different then a .22 long rifle
The OP never specified "rimfire" or "long rifle", he said .22, which includes the FiveSeven and .22 Mag, yes they are completely different, but still .22 caliber.
Was his intent the .22LR? :dunno:
Might as well as include 556 then also, that's a 22 cal bullet.
That's the point, .22 caliber bullets are plenty leathal.
No that is not the point. The velocity of a .22 lr and the velocity of a 555 are completely different along with the grain of the bullet. There is a reason why our military is using 556 instead of .22lr.
Will a .22 lr kill someone? Yes it will. Does it have the same ability to shut down the central nervous system of a attacker as the most common pistol cartridges? NO!.
bb guns have the ability to kill people but does the mean I'm going to carry one for self protection? No.
Post by: Special T on April 09, 2016, 09:11:25 AM
I do think it made a difference. Perception is everything. Had it been a 357 my brother might not have called his manhood into question.A 22 pistol will stop almost anyone..... likely without firing a shot.My brother snatched one out of a guys hand while pointed at him and beat the piss out him with it. Id carry something bigger.
I know it would stop me.
Does the fact that your brother snatched the pistol have anything to do with the fact that is was a 22?
If it had been a 357, would that be too heavy to snatch, or what am I missing?
Do you rember the Crocodile Dundee scene where he gets a switchblade pulled on him and says "that not a knife!" Then pulls his bowie k ife and says " now thats a knife!"
I belive it tactically bad to pull a pistol to threaten some one, its even worse when its percieved as a pea shooter.
Could the 22lr have killed him? You bet but the 22revolver doesnt send the same message as a cromed desert eagle.
Post by: grundy53 on April 09, 2016, 10:24:25 AM
I believe that way of thinking could very well get you killed.I do think it made a difference. Perception is everything. Had it been a 357 my brother might not have called his manhood into question.A 22 pistol will stop almost anyone..... likely without firing a shot.My brother snatched one out of a guys hand while pointed at him and beat the piss out him with it. Id carry something bigger.
I know it would stop me.
Does the fact that your brother snatched the pistol have anything to do with the fact that is was a 22?
If it had been a 357, would that be too heavy to snatch, or what am I missing?
Do you rember the Crocodile Dundee scene where he gets a switchblade pulled on him and says "that not a knife!" Then pulls his bowie k ife and says " now thats a knife!"
I belive it tactically bad to pull a pistol to threaten some one, its even worse when its percieved as a pea shooter.
Could the 22lr have killed him? You bet but the 22revolver doesnt send the same message as a cromed desert eagle.
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Post by: Special T on April 09, 2016, 10:54:45 AM
Post by: huntnphool on April 09, 2016, 02:41:46 PM
Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
That was a fnh five seven. That is completely different then a .22 long rifle
The OP never specified "rimfire" or "long rifle", he said .22, which includes the FiveSeven and .22 Mag, yes they are completely different, but still .22 caliber.
Was his intent the .22LR? :dunno:
Might as well as include 556 then also, that's a 22 cal bullet.
That's the point, .22 caliber bullets are plenty leathal.
No that is not the point. The velocity of a .22 lr and the velocity of a 555 are completely different along with the grain of the bullet. There is a reason why our military is using 556 instead of .22lr.
Well thank you captain obvious, now show me where the OP specified .22lr. ;)
Post by: Ridgeratt on April 09, 2016, 07:48:18 PM
My Dad used to carry a 22 mag Derringer all the time.
JDB Sorry I pushed this sideways by mentioning a 22 mag.
Post by: 2labs on April 09, 2016, 08:19:22 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 09, 2016, 08:20:28 PM
How about a .204 at 4000 FPS. :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Pistol? :chuckle:
Post by: 2labs on April 09, 2016, 08:22:07 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 09, 2016, 08:24:19 PM
Never mind. But that would be a cool pistol!
Probably get one in a TC Contender. ;)
Post by: runamuk on April 09, 2016, 08:43:57 PM
:bash: :bash: :bash:
carry on with :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
Post by: NW-GSP on April 09, 2016, 09:00:13 PM
while you all are over there pee'ing I will be over here practicing with my 22. If'n you think it isnt lethal or got stopping power etc, whats say you come play human target and see how much you leak after I put 10 in your person times 3 :dunno: I mean if 22 suck sooo much you should be lining up to play live target games its probably just like a paint ball gun right? :dunno: if you 2 yr ol got ahold of one it ould be ok because they have no stopping power right?
:bash: :bash: :bash:
carry on with :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qoI4G1fWmEQ
This officer shot the suspect multiple times with a .40 cal pistol and the officer still ended up dead and the suspect still was able to flee the scene. If this man is able to drive off after being hit multiple times with a .40 cal am I willing to trust a .22 lr to stop someone? NO!.
Post by: splitshot on April 09, 2016, 09:16:47 PM
Post by: runamuk on April 09, 2016, 09:24:39 PM
while you all are over there pee'ing I will be over here practicing with my 22. If'n you think it isnt lethal or got stopping power etc, whats say you come play human target and see how much you leak after I put 10 in your person times 3 :dunno: I mean if 22 suck sooo much you should be lining up to play live target games its probably just like a paint ball gun right? :dunno: if you 2 yr ol got ahold of one it ould be ok because they have no stopping power right?
:bash: :bash: :bash:
carry on with :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qoI4G1fWmEQ
This officer shot the suspect multiple times with a .40 cal pistol and the officer still ended up dead and the suspect still was able to flee the scene. If this man is able to drive off after being hit multiple times with a .40 cal am I willing to trust a .22 lr to stop someone? NO!.
cuz you are a cop in the line of fire against the worst of the worst all the time. mkay. wanna know something carrying is a huge PITA for someone like me and I have survived almost 50 years without ever owning a gun let alone carrying one. Been raped once and mugged once. not bad for the amount of years.
when I carry I carry what I have and what I have is a 22 so feel free to screw with me when I am carrying and see how you hold up see my thought is I aint an inner city cop and running up against a person who wont be at least slowed down by a 22 is gonna be a rarity.
silly boys all thinking you need to be giant bad butts with yer big flipping guns simply cuz you can and one story says oh look this COP had a bad deal happen.
be glad all we have as a regular drug is meth I would hate to see a bunch of pcp users out there, for the not in the know that would be angeldust, old drug, post vietnam, created by yep our government, cuz they are good at cooking drugs.
But feel free to continue to tell everyone anything smaller than a cannon is just not enough.
:pee: :pee: :pee: pee monkeys pee
Post by: Bango skank on April 09, 2016, 09:28:36 PM
:pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
Post by: 2labs on April 09, 2016, 09:30:00 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 09, 2016, 09:31:36 PM
I dont really have anything to add to the conversation, i just want to get in on the pissing critter action.best is to try to get the pop up guy timed with the monkey... :peep: :pee:
:pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
Post by: 2labs on April 09, 2016, 09:36:09 PM
Post by: Bango skank on April 09, 2016, 09:41:12 PM
Post by: runamuk on April 09, 2016, 10:29:27 PM
Just reminds me, single is not so bad! :yike:
not bad at all I like being single so do the men I hang with :)
Post by: jasnt on April 09, 2016, 10:37:30 PM
Post by: runamuk on April 09, 2016, 10:41:19 PM
A 22 saved me from a cougar attack this winter. Glad I had it. Normally all I carry running my trap line
that is not possible havent you been following along :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :rolleyes:
Post by: JDHasty on April 09, 2016, 10:47:37 PM
while you all are over there pee'ing I will be over here practicing with my 22. If'n you think it isnt lethal or got stopping power etc, whats say you come play human target and see how much you leak after I put 10 in your person times 3 :dunno: I mean if 22 suck sooo much you should be lining up to play live target games its probably just like a paint ball gun right? :dunno: if you 2 yr ol got ahold of one it ould be ok because they have no stopping power right?
:bash: :bash: :bash:
carry on with :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qoI4G1fWmEQ
This officer shot the suspect multiple times with a .40 cal pistol and the officer still ended up dead and the suspect still was able to flee the scene. If this man is able to drive off after being hit multiple times with a .40 cal am I willing to trust a .22 lr to stop someone? NO!.
It does you no good if the attacker dies AFTER he presses home an attack. No stopping power there.
Post by: quadrafire on April 09, 2016, 11:08:00 PM
Post by: HighlandLofts on April 09, 2016, 11:30:56 PM
A 22 saved me from a cougar attack this winter. Glad I had it. Normally all I carry running my trap line
How old was the cougar? I see some really old ones with young guys in the bigger cities.
The one I remember the easiest is a guy about 25 all dolled up with a woman's hair cut with hair spray looked like, with a cougar about 75, old and wrinkly.
Post by: 2labs on April 09, 2016, 11:38:04 PM
while you all are over there pee'ing I will be over here practicing with my 22. If'n you think it isnt lethal or got stopping power etc, whats say you come play human target and see how much you leak after I put 10 in your person times 3 :dunno: I mean if 22 suck sooo much you should be lining up to play live target games its probably just like a paint ball gun right? :dunno: if you 2 yr ol got ahold of one it ould be ok because they have no stopping power right?
:bash: :bash: :bash:
carry on with :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qoI4G1fWmEQ
This officer shot the suspect multiple times with a .40 cal pistol and the officer still ended up dead and the suspect still was able to flee the scene. If this man is able to drive off after being hit multiple times with a .40 cal am I willing to trust a .22 lr to stop someone? NO!.
It does you no good if the attacker dies AFTER he presses home an attack. No stopping power there.
This!
Post by: JDHasty on April 10, 2016, 12:15:16 AM
while you all are over there pee'ing I will be over here practicing with my 22. If'n you think it isnt lethal or got stopping power etc, whats say you come play human target and see how much you leak after I put 10 in your person times 3 :dunno: I mean if 22 suck sooo much you should be lining up to play live target games its probably just like a paint ball gun right? :dunno: if you 2 yr ol got ahold of one it ould be ok because they have no stopping power right?
:bash: :bash: :bash:
carry on with :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee: :pee:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qoI4G1fWmEQ
This officer shot the suspect multiple times with a .40 cal pistol and the officer still ended up dead and the suspect still was able to flee the scene. If this man is able to drive off after being hit multiple times with a .40 cal am I willing to trust a .22 lr to stop someone? NO!.
It does you no good if the attacker dies AFTER he presses home an attack. No stopping power there.
This!
Yup. Humans are pretty tough customers anyway, with a lot of tenacity for life. There is a reason a person who is a threat is a threat in the first place and that implies you need stopping power.
Post by: grundy53 on April 10, 2016, 01:20:54 AM
Don't forget the .22 TCM.Not advocating the .22 as a personal carry weapon, but in 1989 the DOJ determined it probably that more people had been killed by a .22 in the U.S. than any other caliber. So clearly it is lethal- just how immediately incapacitating is the issue.
In 2009, US Army Major Nidal Hasan killed 13, and severely injured (immediately incapacitating) 30 more, in the Fort Hood "workplace violence" shooting.....all with a .22 caliber handgun.
A big caliber handgun that you can not keep the muzzle on target with is not as effective as the one you can. :twocents:
That was a fnh five seven. That is completely different then a .22 long rifle
The OP never specified "rimfire" or "long rifle", he said .22, which includes the FiveSeven and .22 Mag, yes they are completely different, but still .22 caliber.
Was his intent the .22LR? :dunno:
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 15, 2016, 10:11:09 AM
Don't get me wrong I have heard all kinds of stories about all kinds of calibers.
One was a detective that left his 1911 in his car, got jumped by a couple of thugs, the detective managed to get a round off out of his NAA .22lr revolver that he had as a backup. the round went under the rib and lodged in the bottom of the thugs heart. thug was arrested later at the hospital after he WALKED there. the attack was stopped by the gunshot but really he was able to walk there?
I've also heard/read multiple police repots of bad guys getting shot with anything from 9mm's to .45's and continue to fight until they pass out from blood loss.
So in general no handgun is a guarantee but that doesn't mean what caliber you carry shouldn't matter. Also the person that was comparing the size of the calibers we carry to how bad a$$ it makes us...grow up. for 50 years old you sound like a 3rd grader.
Post by: Jellymon on April 15, 2016, 10:30:30 AM
Post by: Squidward on April 15, 2016, 10:43:41 AM
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 15, 2016, 11:18:55 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
Post by: huntnphool on April 15, 2016, 11:21:56 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 15, 2016, 11:24:04 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
Post by: huntnphool on April 15, 2016, 11:27:58 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
Effective for personal protection?
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 15, 2016, 11:30:19 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
Effective for personal protection?
An AR15 pistol firing 5.56x45 or 223? yes that would defiantly do the job. granted its not the optimal barrel length for that cartridge but irregardless that guy would be having a bad day...and so would your ear drums probably lol
Post by: grundy53 on April 15, 2016, 11:38:03 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
.22 TCM
Post by: huntnphool on April 15, 2016, 11:51:14 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
.22 TCM
5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well. ;)
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 15, 2016, 11:55:41 AM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
.22 TCM
5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well. ;)
The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol
.22lr is not adequate period
Post by: huntnphool on April 15, 2016, 12:01:17 PM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
.22 TCM
5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well. ;)
The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol
.22lr is not adequate period
The OP did not specify "lr", I never suggested it was. :twocents:
Post by: Mongo Hunter on April 15, 2016, 12:21:38 PM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
.22 TCM
5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well. ;)
The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol
.22lr is not adequate period
The OP did not specify "lr", I never suggested it was. :twocents:
you are right they didn't specify but that's the normal caliber that people ask about considering the amount of handguns chambered in 5.7, 5.56 and .22TCM or lack there of.
Post by: huntnphool on April 15, 2016, 12:24:31 PM
Growing up we raised cows. shot pretty much all of them dead, with a single round(not the same single round LOL) from a 22lr. I seen a deer on the run hit behind the last rib and die on the spot with a 22lr. It will KILL.
The question is not whether 22 will kill. a BB gun can kill. a pencil can kill. the question is whether or not a .22lr is adequate for self defense. in a self defense scenario your concern is STOPPING the attacker as quickly as possible (obviously he may die). 22lr is not adequate for self defense on the grounds its unreliable ammunition compared to center fire. we don't need to argue the grounds of effectiveness or its ability to kill.
How about .22 center fire? ;)
if you have a 5.56mm pistol have at er lol
.22 TCM
5.7x28..........but I do have a 5.56/223 as well. ;)
The .22 TCM is going about 2800 FPS.
the 5.7 is going 2300-2800 FPS depending on load and barrel.
the .22lr is 1200FPS at best...not even in the same league guys com on lol
.22lr is not adequate period
The OP did not specify "lr", I never suggested it was. :twocents:
you are right they didn't specify but that's the normal caliber that people ask about considering the amount of handguns chambered in 5.7, 5.56 and .22TCM or lack there of.
:tup:
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on April 15, 2016, 12:54:55 PM
Also perhaps worth noting, on rabbits, hares and forest grouse, I find the stopping power much less (as well as meat damage) shooting them with .38 round nose solids than .22lr hollowpoints. The Stinger stops them instantly, the RN .38 pokes a neat hole through with minimal trauma, and they often go several feet or yards before expiring. I would carry a .22lr loaded with Stingers in favor of .38spl solids, based on my experience, and my first CCW was just that.
Fortunately, there are better options now, without sacrificing weight or concealment, so my CCWs of choice now are .380s or .38+p with quality HP ammunition.
I would also note that there is tons of research out there on one-shot stops by caliber and bullet, and that results are positively correlated with caliber, velocity and terminal performance. However, when researchers investigating actual street performance collect as much data as possible on each individual shooting and run multivariate analyses on the data, the number one variable in determining one-shot stop performance ALWAYS is shot placement, not caliber. That shouldn't be surprising, as that is also the number one factor we see in rendering big game animals to possession by hunters.
I truly believe that frequent practice and proficiency with your CCW, to the point you can shoot with reasonable accuracy instinctually (draw and fire without pausing and shoot until empty, with all shots on target at 25 feet), is the most effective concealed carry option. I'd rather be shot at with a 1911 by a guy who has only ever fired a handful of shots, than a .22 fired by someone who has put thousands of rounds through it. One of the most impressive shooting performances I've seen was by a Wyoming resident who awoke to a cougar attacking his chained German shepherd. Barefoot in the snow, half asleep and with the light of an overhead porch light, he took 11 shots rapidfire at the cat at ranges of 22 to 25 yards with a Ruger semiauto .22lr pistol. The scene confirmed his description that the cat sprinted off the dog at the first shot. He hit the cat 9 times in what was probably less than 3 seconds, I guarantee that guy would be lethal in a self defense situation with any familiar handgun.
IMHO, proficiency with a larger caliber is a better choice, but if you are carrying for self defense, your best choice is the handgun with which the shooter is most proficient.
Post by: jasnt on April 15, 2016, 04:55:33 PM
Post by: HighlandLofts on April 15, 2016, 11:23:47 PM
If I were to carry a 22 caliber handgun, this would be one to consider.
Today whil at Puget Sound lock & Gun Shop on Grove Street Marysville I was talking to Frank about the 22TCM and he had a magazine article anot a new slide in 22TCM that fits on a Glock.
Now that sparked my interest more, I have to check in to this slide and a set of reloading dies.
I was really impressed with this round, a 22 caliber bullet mounted on a 9mm case. A 22 on steroids, a possible carry round.
Post by: brew on April 16, 2016, 12:04:59 AM
Post by: huntingfool7 on April 16, 2016, 09:09:52 PM
just want to say that the OP was for a 22 for defense...not could it kill something with enough rounds put into it...hell if i was hit by a car and slung into a ditch someone could probably put me down eventually with a wrist rocket...sure if all you have to protect yourself is 36 grains than ok but if you're gonna pack at least have something that can do the job and not tick someone off.....Bigger is better if you put it on target. That said, if you think perps are just going to drop when you put a 9 or a 45 in them, take a look at the videos of real shootings. With pistol rounds, one shot stops are not the norm they are the exception. I have a friend that has been in four shootings using a 9, 45 and 357. All of the bad guys took multiple hits and didn't go down on the spot without following them up. Some of those lived to see a prosecutor.
Post by: JDHasty on April 16, 2016, 09:48:14 PM
I carry a Colt Officer in 45 ACP. It will let me decide when the fun and games have run their course and will close the deal. I Guarandamntee it. My life may depend on that statement some day and I am perfectly comfortable making it. I also have a couple Smith 13's stashed in the RV and house and they are also perfectly capable of letting me be the one who gets to decide if and when the party is over. At that point further discussion is superfluous and the party is over. Me 1, bad guy zero is the score and all that is left is me still being in a position to sit back and let the proper authorities sort out the particulars. If you need shot, you need stopped, you don't need to somebody playing patty cake w/you.
Post by: HighlandLofts on April 16, 2016, 10:22:38 PM
First shot and down. If you are ever in that situation recoil doesn't factor in. And today you can buy a 40 that is small enough to lug around. A 22, like anyone in their right mind would consider, is lethal.... in a matter of time. An attacker can close twenty yards in a quarter of that time and press home an attack. Will a 22 stop an attack? Don't bet your life on the answer to that question.
I carry a Colt Officer in 45 ACP. It will let me decide when the fun and games have run their course and will close the deal. I Guarandamntee it. My life may depend on that statement some day and I am perfectly comfortable making it. I also have a couple Smith 13's stashed in the RV and house and they are also perfectly capable of letting me be the one who gets to decide if and when the party is over. At that point further discussion is superfluous and the party is over. Me 1, bad guy zero is the score and all that is left is me still being in a position to sit back and let the proper authorities sort out the particulars. If you need shot, you need stopped, you don't need to somebody playing patty cake w/you.
Your response is right on, and the mind set is in place straight forward.
I read in the caliber war about how the 9mm is so great with the newer powders and projectiles, my view on that BS is: If the 9mm is so much better today then it was thirty years ago, just thick how great the 45ACP is today from thirty years ago.
If I have a 6foot five methed out skitsafrinic psycho about to do me bad, I want a big gun to stop the threat RIGHT NOW!
I quit carrying my Colt 1911 when I bought a Glock 20 in 10mm with fifteen rounds in the magazine & one in the tube. Stopping power at it's finest.