Post by: gonehuntin68 on June 05, 2016, 10:12:34 AM
Post by: Crunchy on June 05, 2016, 10:25:44 AM
Post by: seakev on June 05, 2016, 10:30:09 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on June 05, 2016, 11:03:49 AM
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 11:26:47 AM
Powder is in short supply though, so you may have to go with whatever you can get.
Post by: cooltimber on June 05, 2016, 12:13:32 PM
This load I found has mild recoil along the line's of an .06.
Be advised this is a max load , u should work up to it and look for pressure sign's.
I use the 162 gr sst because of the bc at 0.550. This bullet will put them down hard!
my bad,not 1.950 but .950. helps to use my glass's.....
Post by: RadSav on June 05, 2016, 12:19:07 PM
http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2016, 12:47:58 PM
I'd trust gas station sushi before some of the reloading advice on HW.
Now, is that sushi from the old "Jims's Stab-N-Grab" or a legit gas station like AM/PM?
As far as powders go, a good reloading manual will have some recommendations that worked well while they were developing data. A magnum primer and some IMR 4831 is a pretty combo to start with. Just pick a bullet and track down good data from either the powder or bullet manufacturer. Hodgdon had a great online data base that covers Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester powders.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Post by: wadu1 on June 05, 2016, 12:51:25 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on June 05, 2016, 01:14:30 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on June 05, 2016, 01:33:34 PM
I'd trust gas station sushi before some of the reloading advice on HW.
Now, is that sushi from the old "Jims's Stab-N-Grab" or a legit gas station like AM/PM?
Sushi's half price at Jim's on Sunday's........
Post by: huntnphool on June 05, 2016, 02:11:09 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 02:19:16 PM
Norma MRP has been my powder of choice for my 7mag using 140 grain Accubond or Partition.
http://www.lapua.com/upload/reloading/reloadingburningratechart2011.pdf
Which is the exact same powder as Reloader 22, so that's nice in that if you can't find one at the store you might find the other.
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2016, 02:40:51 PM
Which is the exact same powder as Reloader 22, so that's nice in that if you can't find one at the store you might find the other.
No, it's not. They are similar but not identical.
This is poor advice at best. Providing information like this to an admitted new reloader is dangerous and bordering on negligent. Unless you have access to the proper equipment or adequate experience to make powder substitutions, it is a poor idea to do so. The OP has neither and I suspect that you don't have the appropriate equipment or technical background to do so either.
Post by: MountainWalk on June 05, 2016, 02:47:40 PM
I don't think bobcat was saying use the 22 in place of MRP.
Post by: brew on June 05, 2016, 03:00:34 PM
I use imr 4831 at 60.4gr at 3000 fps.162 sst bullets.out of a savage 111.This load has proven the most accurate at 100 to 500 yrd's. My best 5 shoot group at 100 is 1.950.I also use IMR 4831 (62 gr) with 160 gr nosler partitions...not to stir up a hornet's nest as i usually don't critique other's success but if your "best" 5 shot group is just under 2" at 100 yards you may want to re-evaluate your load. My browning A-bolt is almost 25 years old as well as the Vari X II Leo on it and it will group better than a bunch of crack heads looking for a dropped rock. Good luck and keep your powder dry
This load I found has mild recoil along the line's of an .06.
Be advised this is a max load , u should work up to it and look for pressure sign's.
I use the 162 gr sst because of the bc at 0.550. This bullet will put them down hard!
Post by: YukonHunter on June 05, 2016, 03:17:33 PM
:yeah:Which is the exact same powder as Reloader 22, so that's nice in that if you can't find one at the store you might find the other.
No, it's not. They are similar but not identical.
This is poor advice at best. Providing information like this to an admitted new reloader is dangerous and bordering on negligent. Unless you have access to the proper equipment or adequate experience to make powder substitutions, it is a poor idea to do so. The OP has neither and I suspect that you don't have the appropriate equipment or technical background to do so either.
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 03:41:10 PM
Which is the exact same powder as Reloader 22, so that's nice in that if you can't find one at the store you might find the other.
No, it's not. They are similar but not identical.
How do you know that it's not?
Post by: cooltimber on June 05, 2016, 03:48:09 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 03:49:41 PM
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6532901/What_s_the_scoop_with_Norma_po
And here's a quote I saved a few years ago from someone in the know:
"For our European and African friends, who may have difficulty locating the various powders, there is an authorized substitution. Reloader-22 is exactly the thing as Norma-MRP. Reloader-19 is exactly the same thing as Norma-204. Reloader 15 is exactly the same thing as Norma-203. These powders come from exactly the same plant and are made at exactly the same time. The powder from that plant is simply shipped to a different place and is put into a different consumer pack."
Post by: MountainWalk on June 05, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2016, 04:20:39 PM
Take a look at this thread on 24 Hour Campfire. Even John Barsness (Mule Deer) is saying they're probably the same powder, and if not they're so close that you could use the loading data interchangeably. Of course starting 10% below max and working up like always.
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6532901/What_s_the_scoop_with_Norma_po
Backing up internet facts with more internet facts is like referencing Wikipedia in a doctoral thesis; it shows a complete lack of first hand knowledge or meaningful research.
Unless John Barsness is a chemical engineer for a powder manufacturer he's no more qualified as a source for information than some guy over on LRH with the screen name CrazyLary'sReloadingData. I'm not very familiar with John Barsness but my understanding is that he's a journalist, albeit a successful and prolific one. But how many people have criticized journalists for providing false information over the years? How many incredibly well qualified journalists are called liars everyday by internet experts with no actual knowledge on the subject matter? So if we can't trust those journalists, why can John Barsness be trusted on this topic?
I've know for years that Reloader 22 and MRP are very similar but that doesn't make them "nearly the same". Hodgdon's H870 is "nearly the same" as WC 872 but that doesn't make them interchangeable. Hodgdon H110 and Win 296 are "practically the same" but that doesn't make them interchangeable. The burn rates are variable between lots of identical powders (look up the great debate over H1000 and the new-VS-old burn rates) so imagine the differences possible between different lots of different powders.
I stand by may statement that you're providing potentially dangerous information without a reputable and verifiable source for the information. While many shooters are smart enough to extract actual facts from the volumes of "internet wisdom" out there, I sure wouldn't want to assume that everyone is capable of doing so. Just because the "google box" says it, doesn't make it true. :twocents:
Post by: brew on June 05, 2016, 04:25:11 PM
brew,thats outside to outside...center to center would be 1.680. I just measured the target.I'd like to c u do better with a stock rifle. :chuckle:whoa---easy tiger....not here to start a peeing match or get the ruler out to see whose "pattern" is bigger--- or smaller. if you are happy handloading and with the group you are getting then rock on..i'm just saying that IMHO you should be able to get a better group than what you are.
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 04:28:07 PM
Post by: cooltimber on June 05, 2016, 04:41:39 PM
Post by: RadSav on June 05, 2016, 05:06:43 PM
Now N203B and R-15 have both been stable and run exactly the same powder charge for velocity in my 308. So I can believe one is just a rebrand of the same thing between those two.
We use a lot of N204 around here. I have not gotten a 257 Roberts load of 204 to be anywhere close to the R19. I have only used a single lot of 19 so that base measure is limited. But I would be surprised if they were suppose to be identical.
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2016, 05:08:38 PM
brew,thats outside to outside...center to center would be 1.680. I just measured the target.I'd like to c u do better with a stock rifle. :chuckle:
This gives me an idea for a new thread!
Google "Norma MRP and reloader 22." There's plenty of discussion to be found on all sorts of Internet forums about the similarity of the two. I don't find these discussions "dangerous" in the least. Maybe you do, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to post about it, as I find it an interesting subject to discuss. As I said, you always start below max and work your way up.
Using a google search to validate a google search? That reminds me of an 8 year old asking a 9 year old to verify a mathematical proof for him. It's entirely possible that it will all work out to be correct. It's also possible that they both come to the conclusion that the correct answer is not 14, it's actually a kitten. (For the record that joke is hilarious if you're a big enough nerd)
There are a lot of fascinating subjects that are fun to debate and discuss. There are also better places to give speculative advice than in a forum topic where a new reloader is asking for advice from experienced individuals. As I sit here putting the final touches on a new chamber reamer design I would love to discuss the impact of small changes to case shoulder and leade angles as it pertains to peak pressures. I'd also love to discuss why my wildcats can be safely loaded with higher charge weights than similar designs. The problem is that not everyone can differentiate between speculative or theoretical advantages (or in the case of Reloader 22 and MRP similarities) and proven fact. Advanced reloading is best left to the realm of advanced reloaders. After all, none of us would want to be responsible for recommending that somebody use pistol powder in a 30-06 case for reduced loads An inexperienced handloader may find that information while doing a google search and hurt them self or somebody around them.
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 05:15:22 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on June 05, 2016, 06:01:46 PM
I'd trust gas station sushi before some of the reloading advice on HW.
This with out question has to be the best bit of information I have seen given on here.
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2016, 06:21:15 PM
What more can I say?
Nothing hopefully. As a forum moderator I would like to believe that the safety and integrity of the forum and it's members is a priority for you. This is not the first time I've seen bad or downright dangerous reloading advice posted by you and others on here.
Jay.sharkbait's comment was tongue in cheek, but still some of the best advice I've seen on here. Far too often reloading experience and reloading skill are confused, here and in the field. It seems to me that the person with the most experience typically isn't the person with the most skill.
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 06:23:23 PM
Post by: Bob33 on June 05, 2016, 06:27:59 PM
It sounds like you are suggesting that Hunt Wa should not allow any reloading information to be posted. I don't think that is going to happen.What more can I say?
Nothing hopefully. As a forum moderator I would like to believe that the safety and integrity of the forum and it's members is a priority for you. This is not the first time I've seen bad or downright dangerous reloading advice posted by you and others on here.
Jay.sharkbait's comment was tongue in cheek, but still some of the best advice I've seen on here. Far too often reloading experience and reloading skill are confused, here and in the field. It seems to me that the person with the most experience typically isn't the person with the most skill.
Post by: savagehunter on June 05, 2016, 06:28:52 PM
Post by: bobcat on June 05, 2016, 06:32:06 PM
However, you're taking the fun out of it, at least for me, in this particular thread.
Do I have to write in every post "start 10% below max and work your way up?" This is getting old. I don't need you talking down to me.
I've been reloading for 32 years, both shotgun shells and rifle. I'll continue to post my opinions and thoughts. Sorry if you think it's "downright dangerous." Again, if you don't like it, don't read it.
Post by: The100Road on June 05, 2016, 07:45:04 PM
sounds to me like bobcat has done his research and to him they sound the same. You are basically saying don't trust any reloading info on the Internet. How is he supposed to do his research? Trail and error? As long as it's a reliable source I use internet info all the time on many hobbys.What more can I say?
Nothing hopefully. As a forum moderator I would like to believe that the safety and integrity of the forum and it's members is a priority for you. This is not the first time I've seen bad or downright dangerous reloading advice posted by you and others on here.
Jay.sharkbait's comment was tongue in cheek, but still some of the best advice I've seen on here. Far too often reloading experience and reloading skill are confused, here and in the field. It seems to me that the person with the most experience typically isn't the person with the most skill.
Post by: huntnphool on June 05, 2016, 08:08:08 PM
Forgot to mention, im hunting with Partitions. ;)
Post by: yorketransport on June 05, 2016, 08:09:47 PM
It sounds like you are suggesting that Hunt Wa should not allow any reloading information to be posted. I don't think that is going to happen.
I agree. But I see more bad info shared here than on the limited number of other forums I'm on. I also see far more questions asked by new reloaders here than on other forums. That combination is concerning. Far too often the bad information drowns out the good and goes unchecked. The rebuttal to anyone questioning the bad info is typically a cut and paste response from an Internet search. This shouldn't be a surprise, but backing up bad info with bad info doesn't actually help.
Yorketransport- this is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable place to discuss hunting, shooting, reloading, etc.
However, you're taking the fun out of it, at least for me, in this particular thread.
Do I have to write in every post "start 10% below max and work your way up?" This is getting old. I don't need you talking down to me.
I've been reloading for 32 years, both shotgun shells and rifle. I'll continue to post my opinions and thoughts. Sorry if you think it's "downright dangerous." Again, if you don't like it, don't read it.
You're not the first one to accuse me not being any fun. Typically I hear that from my employees and my kids though. I get on my employees, kids and friends about unsafe behavior daily. It's my job, my responsibility and my pleasure to do so. As an advocate for the shooting sports it's your responsibility to do the same.
I'm not talking down to you, on the internet everyone is on level ground. That's the problem. Congratulations on your 32 years of reloading. I'm only at about 18 years. I double checked my records and in that time I've reloaded 67 different calibers (27 of those are wildcats and 6 of those are ones that either I designed or worked with the designer) in 142 different rifles. I think my parting comment will be a quote from myself.
Far too often reloading experience and reloading skill are confused, here and in the field. It seems to me that the person with the most experience typically isn't the person with the most skill.
Andrew
Post by: jay.sharkbait on June 05, 2016, 08:18:02 PM
Post by: Bob33 on June 05, 2016, 08:18:38 PM
Post by: higunner on June 05, 2016, 08:59:44 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on June 05, 2016, 09:10:13 PM
I would like to remind everybody to be careful with their comments and not say anything that may offend someone, you could get suspended from HW for two months.
You are back!
Thanks again for the........uhhhh.. Never mind.
Post by: RadSav on June 05, 2016, 09:13:23 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on June 05, 2016, 09:15:11 PM
And I nominate Yorke to be supreme leader and draw up rules for said forum.( approved by the masses, admin, Dale, illuminati whatever.)
Post by: higunner on June 05, 2016, 09:22:46 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on June 05, 2016, 09:26:57 PM
I'm back and rehabilitated. I'm ready to give back for all the things I've done wrong. But first I need to learn about brilliant reloading decisions. :yike:
Ok dirtbag
#1 reload all your own work ammo.
Stay tuned for further bits of wisdom. Especially the next couple days...
Post by: M_ray on June 05, 2016, 09:29:53 PM
Post by: C-Money on June 06, 2016, 06:40:33 AM
Post by: Badhabit on June 06, 2016, 09:09:56 PM
Post by: savagehunter on June 06, 2016, 10:45:27 PM
Post by: RadSav on June 07, 2016, 12:12:25 AM
I have retumbo.4831 sc and the norma mrp want to load 168 gr berger vld in a savage 116 7mm mag 22 inch barrel. Have loaded the 4831 sc in my 6.5 x 284 and 4064 I'm my 308. Been shooting the msr gold factory ammo in this gun they come with the berger bullets and they shoot very well . Any advice appreciated as I am new.
My first question would be - How did you end up with a 22" barrel on a 7mag 116?
Post by: savagehunter on June 07, 2016, 06:36:44 AM
Post by: RadSav on June 07, 2016, 06:44:39 AM
I do have a 23" 7mag that shoots unbelievably well. Speed freaks dang near poop themselves when they see it though.
Post by: Mxracer532 on June 07, 2016, 09:39:43 AM
Yorketransport- this is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable place to discuss hunting, shooting, reloading, etc.
However, you're taking the fun out of it, at least for me, in this particular thread.
Do I have to write in every post "start 10% below max and work your way up?" This is getting old. I don't need you talking down to me.
I've been reloading for 32 years, both shotgun shells and rifle. I'll continue to post my opinions and thoughts. Sorry if you think it's "downright dangerous." Again, if you don't like it, don't read it.
Im with bobcat, if your dumb enough to take anything off the net and load it up for yourself you probably shouldn't be reloading at all. The work your way up is an obvious statement, again if you don't understand that THEN YOU HAVE NO BISNESS RELOADING!
Post by: headshot5 on June 07, 2016, 10:02:39 AM
Quote
Im with bobcat, if your dumb enough to take anything off the net and load it up for yourself you probably shouldn't be reloading at all. The work your way up is an obvious statement, again if you don't understand that THEN YOU HAVE NO BISNESS RELOADING!
All good and well, but new people get into reloading all the time. We should be helping them as much as possible, in which case working your way up etc. is good advice every time. I know I started reloading 30-06 cartridges when I was 8. The concern isn't so much for everyone, but for new reloaders and youths. Generally, the younger generation gets most of their information on the net. So it is wise to include disclaimers.
Edit to add: I haven't run into that much bad advice being spread on hunt-wa specifically, but I have seen websites with some well over specified loads that would wind up with someone being hurt. If nothing else when giving load advice reference your source I.E. Hornady reloading manual 5th edition or what have you.
Post by: gonehuntin68 on June 07, 2016, 11:33:27 AM
Post by: mountainman on June 07, 2016, 12:10:06 PM
Just wanted to see what powder people are using. Wierd how people take a simple question.it's Hunt-wa..no response is ever simple.. :)
Post by: hogslayer on June 07, 2016, 12:30:56 PM