Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 10:34:56 AM

Title: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 10:34:56 AM: Situation: a deer is struck by a car and had a broken leg. The deer is euthanized by a major metropolitan city police dept that has about a dozen such incidents each year here in Western Washington. An officer who is also a hunter overhears the incident and contacts a local homeless shelter who is very happy to receive a donation of meat. 75 pounds of meat is salvaged (less than 2 hours from time of death to freezer at the homeless shelter) and donated by the officer to feed 300 people (1/4 lb serving) and the officer...is told to never do this again by their Dept as it is a "liability", told "what if someone got sick from the deer meat?" Officer tries to explain that the WDFW donates to the same homeless shelter on a regular basis and the shelter already had a few deer in their freezer. Dept didn't care and told officer to never do this again...and even insinuated that the officer didn't actually donate the meat but kept it for himself, until it was verified with the homeless shelter that the meat was actually donated.

Yes, this really happened, and Yes, I am leaving out the Dept name, Officer name...and Yes, I have first hand knowledge of this actually occurring.

Just wanting to know what Hunt-Wa and fellow hunters thoughts are on this?

Grade
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: syoungs on September 14, 2016, 10:40:09 AM: not hard to believe in the times were living in, liability is the first thing you have to worry about now a days.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: 7mmfan on September 14, 2016, 10:43:41 AM: Clearly if our food isn't highly processed, saturated with salt and chemicals that "preserve" it, then it's not safe. I've heard of this happening before as well, its pitiful.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: HunterofWA on September 14, 2016, 10:48:20 AM: deer meat is probably the healthiest meat out there and compared to other foods it makes the other meats (over processed like fast food) look and taste synthetic
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: quadrafire on September 14, 2016, 10:48:34 AM: Just have him transfer it through WDFW instead of personally. Problem solved it would seem.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 10:58:54 AM: The Dept Animal Control Officer tried to get a WDFW Officer out to the scene for an hour (while the deer suffered in a yard) but no Officers where available...the city officer that donated the meat contacted 3 WDFW Officers they personally know but none could respond (various reasons) but the officer was given the OK by one of the WDFW Officers to collect the meat and the city officer even filled out the WDFW Salvage Permit (per WAC, this has to be done through the WDFW to possess the deer meat) and then transferred the meat from the salvage scene (officer used the "gutless method" at a secure location out of the eye of the public on city property so it would not "look bad" on the Dept for cutting up a deer...total time was just under 1 hour using the gutless method). The WAC was followed, as well as it was all documented with a city dept report so it was completely transparent that this was a donation to the homeless shelter...normally all deer are taken to the Humane Society and incinerated...which is such a waste.

Grade
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: Bill W on September 14, 2016, 11:00:10 AM: If the deer is "euthanized" by a bullet then the meat is fit to donate. If it's by a shot at the vet, I can understand the meat not being fit to donate. These are two different situations.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 11:01:30 AM: Shot in the back of the head with a .223
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2016, 11:09:03 AM: Liability is only a concern from those with something to loose. All large corporations and gov agencies are leary of opening themselves to liability when there is no gain.

I think the officer did good, and if I was around I would have taken possession filled out the forms. I think the main work around could be having a private personally do the donation so as to avoid the liability concern...
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: BDildine on September 14, 2016, 11:09:39 AM: next time maybe see if the shelter is able to come "salvage" the meat with a little help? i think what the dept did stinks, but not much to do about it without specific details and being able to publicly support what they did...
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: quadrafire on September 14, 2016, 11:10:37 AM: Quote from: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 10:58:54 AM
The Dept Animal Control Officer tried to get a WDFW Officer out to the scene for an hour (while the deer suffered in a yard) but no Officers where available...the city officer that donated the meat contacted 3 WDFW Officers they personally know but none could respond (various reasons) but the officer was given the OK by one of the WDFW Officers to collect the meat and the city officer even filled out the WDFW Salvage Permit (per WAC, this has to be done through the WDFW to possess the deer meat) and then transferred the meat from the salvage scene (officer used the "gutless method" at a secure location out of the eye of the public on city property so it would not "look bad" on the Dept for cutting up a deer...total time was just under 1 hour using the gutless method). The WAC was followed, as well as it was all documented with a city dept report so it was completely transparent that this was a donation to the homeless shelter...normally all deer are taken to the Humane Society and incinerated...which is such a waste.

Grade
I would think this would get the department off of the hook for anything, but you know how things are these days.
Personally I think he did just what should have been done :tup:
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 11:15:25 AM: trying to stay anonymous here guys and gals...sure making it hard to do! but to answer a few more questions...Officer first asked if there was a citizen that could take the deer...no one wanted it (nice part of the city with upscale homes...not too many hunters in this part of the city) and the Officer called the shelter who told them they can only accept skinned and gutless carcasses...basically hanging deer or parts of deer (no guts or hide, but bones OK).

And Special T...thank you!...wish you were close by and available...the Officer feels like $hi! because of what they were told by the Dept
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2016, 11:19:12 AM: I grew up in Issaquah/Sammamish and would have cut that thing up in some ones front yard on a tarp!
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: jackelope on September 14, 2016, 11:20:58 AM: Quote from: quadrafire on September 14, 2016, 10:48:34 AM
Just have him transfer it through WDFW instead of personally. Problem solved it would seem.

This would be the way to go. Good to see the officer tried. The only thing anyone is concerned with anymore in this society is liability with all the sue-happy people in the world. Sad really.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: RatRodMike on September 14, 2016, 11:23:29 AM: Okay, crazy thought here. Perhaps we could form a group of hunters that could intervene at just the right time in the process to keep officers that are trying to do the right thing out of trouble. I believe that we couldn’t shoot the dear but we could fill out the salvage paperwork, haul the animal away for butchering and take the meat to a predetermined benefactor. The group could meet regionally from time to time to make sure everyone is on the same page for legality reasons and to make sure the meat is cared for in responsible way. Our names would be on a list that officers could use to find someone that was from the group and local.

Any thoughts? :dunno:
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: Special T on September 14, 2016, 11:27:50 AM: Since I don't know the area I will toss out an idea that has worked in the Skagit Valley. The master hunter damage coordinator up here has a pretty pulse on what is going on and contacts for local hunters who have tags to dispatch wounded game. It would stand to reason that a person in this position would be well suited to find someone willing to donate the time to handle it.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: dmv9 on September 14, 2016, 11:45:55 AM: Wouldn't this be a problem? Along with discharging a weapon within city limits?

"An individual may not kill an injured or wounded animal for the purpose of salvage. Only a law enforcement officer or individuals or entities authorized by the department may euthanize an animal injured in a motor vehicle collision, whether or not the animal is taken for salvage."
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 12:02:30 PM: RatRodMike,

The Inland Northwest Wildlife Council in Spokane has been doing this very thing for years now (since 1996)!!! and the officer in this situation was well aware of this program too...really hoping that out of this incident that a council in Western Washington can be formed for this very thing! As far as the euthanizing of the animal goes, yes the LE would have to do it, but currently they do it anyway, just instead of the meat going to help others it goes straight to the incinerator.

The officer did a little research (after not being able to sleep last night due to how they felt from their Dept's reaction)...in Pierce County the food banks served 518,000 individuals...per their website at FISH (acronym for the food bank...had nothing to do with actual fish). It's hard as a hunter to see much needed food just go to waste because of the uneducated upper staff at a city police department...the officer in this incident doesn't blame the staff as they realize it's a lack of education but then to come back after the officer gave a statement to Internal Affairs to have his chain of command come down on them and say how the officer put the city at a liability and to never do it again, all because that officer didn't want the meat to go to waste and found a way to feed people...OK, I'm saying too much and giving my opinion, which I wanted to keep myself out of it...plus I didn't sleep well last night and need some coffee.... ;)
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 14, 2016, 12:06:37 PM: You can't blame the department for being concerned that they're not equipped for food safety. I understand it even if it's obvious the meat is fine to us. Everyone hates the cops nowadays. All they need is a reason to sue. :dunno:
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: SteelheadTed on September 14, 2016, 12:24:58 PM: What I know is people still get sick even after the nanny state inspects our meat (by certified inspectors wearing sanitized garb while writing on a sanitized clip board) and that seems to be OK. BUT, if someone donates meat like the story above and someone were to get sick by god that is unconscionable! Strange times these are.

If I were that officer I'd keep doing it. I'd make it an issue. If the department were to discipline me I'd make it public. Dealing with silliness like this won't end until people stand up and say "enough!". And it won't change if the people standing up aren't people in a position of influence. I'd argue that this officer is in such a position. It'll take courage, I don't deny that but that is indeed what it will take.

The fact that a deer in this situation could go to waste because of liability concerns is such a backwards way of thinking that I wonder how we walk straight.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 14, 2016, 12:27:53 PM: I didn't say the meat had to go to waste. I'm just not going to be quick about jumping on a department for doing what it thinks it needs for liability. The officer may well line up other options for future incidents of this type, as mentioned above.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: lokidog on September 14, 2016, 12:30:41 PM: I think it is a bunch of crap! Everyone is more concerned about lawsuits than doing "the right thing". :twocents:

One big change that needs to be made to this law is that there needs to be a provision for finishing an injured animal off. I know an injured elk could be a hazard but in WI a private citizen is allowed to finish an injured animal by cutting its throat (or clubbing it with a 2X4 :rolleyes: ), you just can't shoot it with a gun or bow.

I have dispatched multiple road hit animals and they have all been surprisingly docile, compared to a non-fatally shot deer or elk. They usually seem to be in shock and struggle very little.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 14, 2016, 12:43:33 PM: It's funny to me that many of the same people bothered by the BS of BLM and have said they openly support the police are now ticked off about them trying to cover their butts in an area where they're neither licensed nor experienced. It's very much like politics. You're not going to like everything a politician says or does. But, you pick the one you like the most and support them. Same with cops. :dunno:
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: ffbowhunter on September 14, 2016, 01:03:57 PM: Quote from: grade-creek-rd on September 14, 2016, 10:34:56 AM
Situation: a deer is struck by a car and had a broken leg. The deer is euthanized by a major metropolitan city police dept that has about a dozen such incidents each year here in Western Washington. An officer who is also a hunter overhears the incident and contacts a local homeless shelter who is very happy to receive a donation of meat. 75 pounds of meat is salvaged (less than 2 hours from time of death to freezer at the homeless shelter) and donated by the officer to feed 300 people (1/4 lb serving) and the officer...is told to never do this again by their Dept as it is a "liability", told "what if someone got sick from the deer meat?" Officer tries to explain that the WDFW donates to the same homeless shelter on a regular basis and the shelter already had a few deer in their freezer. Dept didn't care and told officer to never do this again...and even insinuated that the officer didn't actually donate the meat but kept it for himself, until it was verified with the homeless shelter that the meat was actually donated.

Yes, this really happened, and Yes, I am leaving out the Dept name, Officer name...and Yes, I have first hand knowledge of this actually occurring.

Just wanting to know what Hunt-Wa and fellow hunters thoughts are on this?

Grade

Tine to contact his union rep! That's too bad.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: singleshot12 on September 14, 2016, 01:29:39 PM: Quote from: Huntersofwashington on September 14, 2016, 10:48:20 AM
deer meat is probably the healthiest meat out there

Yes if not hit by a car. People forget when an animal gets hit by a car what usually happens is busted intestines pumping into the meat tainting it for human consumption. Ecoli poisoning is not a myth.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: fish vacuum on September 14, 2016, 02:48:17 PM: Depending on the location, there may be other places to donate roadkill without the liability issues.
Sarvey Wildlife rehab in Arlington takes that kind of thing. If there's similar place nearby they might be an option. Maybe Northwest Trek takes meat donations?
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: Tjv28 on September 15, 2016, 08:17:33 AM: From my understanding homeless shelters can only take donations that are U.S.D.A. approved. It's lame, but that's how it is. I've heard certain Indian reservations will take the meat though. Also, the issaquah zoo takes road kill to feed the cats.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: Eli346 on September 15, 2016, 08:37:21 AM: I think it's just another case of the department trying to reduce liability. I don't agree with it but with this litigious society it opens the door for all kinds of legal action should something go wrong. The next time it happens there should be a number that the officers can call to ensure that the meat gets taken care of and processed before it's wasted. I know of an instance down here where I tended to a buck injured until a sheriff could 'dispatch' it. When I asked him where the animal was headed he said it was going to a local wild animal shelter for food.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: lokidog on September 15, 2016, 01:24:59 PM: Quote from: fish vacuum on September 14, 2016, 02:48:17 PM
Depending on the location, there may be other places to donate roadkill without the liability issues.
Sarvey Wildlife rehab in Arlington takes that kind of thing. If there's similar place nearby they might be an option. Maybe Northwest Trek takes meat donations?

Back in 2000, NWT told me they did not take roadkill because some counties poisoned it for coyote control, that might have changed by now.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: unbrkwoodsmen on September 15, 2016, 02:04:59 PM: There should be a program like they have in Alaska for moose hit by cars. they have a list of people that will come and process and dispose of the animal. They need to remove from the scene all items. They are then required to donate 50% or more of the meat salvaged to a food bank. The officers have the list and start down it on the first animal until they find someone who is available. The next animal they start at the next person on the list. Works very well.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: curlewkiller on September 16, 2016, 05:40:47 PM: Quote from: singleshot12 on September 14, 2016, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: Huntersofwashington on September 14, 2016, 10:48:20 AM
deer meat is probably the healthiest meat out there

Yes if not hit by a car. People forget when an animal gets hit by a car what usually happens is busted intestines pumping into the meat tainting it for human consumption. Ecoli poisoning is not a myth.

So we should just leave a deer that is a bit gut shot? :dunno: What if deer is quartering away and bullet or arrow flies through a bit of intestine but is a lung or heart shot? If you process a deer that has intestines ruptured correctly you can still eat the meat in my opinion.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 16, 2016, 06:59:45 PM: having its intestines blown up doesnt put do anything to its shoulders or hind quarters
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: Stein on September 16, 2016, 09:19:18 PM: Quote from: curlewkiller on September 16, 2016, 05:40:47 PM
Quote from: singleshot12 on September 14, 2016, 01:29:39 PM
Quote from: Huntersofwashington on September 14, 2016, 10:48:20 AM
deer meat is probably the healthiest meat out there

Yes if not hit by a car. People forget when an animal gets hit by a car what usually happens is busted intestines pumping into the meat tainting it for human consumption. Ecoli poisoning is not a myth.

So we should just leave a deer that is a bit gut shot? :dunno: What if deer is quartering away and bullet or arrow flies through a bit of intestine but is a lung or heart shot? If you process a deer that has intestines ruptured correctly you can still eat the meat in my opinion.

I hope so, I just had some tonight.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: DaveMonti on September 16, 2016, 10:16:05 PM: It's hard to blame the PD for wanting to avoid liability when the system is set up to make money by suing people and having insurance companies pay. Everyone is now looking for an angle to sue and there is no shortage of lawyers to help them out. The lawsuit mentality infects every single corner of society.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: lokidog on September 16, 2016, 10:25:12 PM: Quote from: DaveMonti on September 16, 2016, 10:16:05 PM
It's hard to blame the PD for wanting to avoid liability when the system is set up to make money by suing people and having insurance companies pay. Everyone is now looking for an angle to sue and there is no shortage of lawyers to help them out. The lawsuit mentality infects every single corner of society.

This is, unfortunately, too true in our society. :( >:( :bash:
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 17, 2016, 08:11:25 AM: Quote from: DaveMonti on September 16, 2016, 10:16:05 PM
It's hard to blame the PD for wanting to avoid liability when the system is set up to make money by suing people and having insurance companies pay. Everyone is now looking for an angle to sue and there is no shortage of lawyers to help them out. The lawsuit mentality infects every single corner of society.

Exactly what I was trying to say in my last post.
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: singleshot12 on September 17, 2016, 12:14:31 PM: Quote from: WA hunter14 on September 16, 2016, 06:59:45 PM
having its intestines blown up doesnt put do anything to its shoulders or hind quarters

Yeah if the animal is dispatched within a few minutes. I'm talking about a deer that's been laying off the side of the road (Alive) with a broken back and busted up guts. With the heart still beating pumping blood and gut juices into all the meat muscles thus tainting it for human consumption.

Cook it very well done if you are into eating road kill :twocents:
Title: Re: Deer meat donation "ignorance is Bliss"
Post by: tgomez on September 17, 2016, 02:53:43 PM: It's not personal I'm sure, just the department covering them selves. Police departments and police officers get hammered with law suits all the time, and a lot more than one would think. Good on the officer for keeping his integrity and doing the right thing, at the right time, for the right reason.