Post by: WA hunter14 on September 23, 2016, 07:35:20 PM
Post by: huntnphool on September 23, 2016, 08:15:39 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 23, 2016, 08:24:54 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on September 23, 2016, 08:28:57 PM
I was wondering the same, but I am not a diesel guy.
Post by: jmscon on September 23, 2016, 08:32:39 PM
@jackelope might have something to add too.
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 23, 2016, 08:34:49 PM
You might have some air in the fuel line from changing the pump. You might try looking up a YouTube video on how to bleed the high pressure fuel lines at the injectors.
@jackalope might have something to add too.
thank you, I'll figure out how to bleed them and see if that helps.
Post by: huntnphool on September 23, 2016, 08:39:39 PM
Being 19 you can chalk it up to a lesson learned, leaving engines sitting that long without starting you should always expect issues. If you don't get any then you should feel fortunate.
At this point it's going to be process of elimination, and may take a while.
It could be fuel pressure, more accurately lack there of, you will need to check that.
Possibly air in the lines?
It could be the injectors, how many miles/how old are they?
It could be oil pressure, those diesels HPOP's do not react well to sitting long periods. They require a certain amount of oil pressure to fire the injectors, it may take a lot of cranking to get that oil pressure built back up.
I'd start with one and start the elimination process. :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on September 23, 2016, 08:43:56 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 23, 2016, 08:58:18 PM
Post by: huntnphool on September 23, 2016, 09:04:01 PM
ok thank you that helps a lot, Now I have a path to work through. Im struggling with life right now(like others im sure) and not having a vehicle is just making life harder than I can handle. Im sorry, i dont want to be rude and disrespectful I really do appreciate you guys taking time to help me out.
Most of us have been there, take it a day at a time.
Since it started and ran for a period of time, I'd start with oil and fuel pressure.
Maybe coach will chime in since archery elk is done, I'm sure he has a suggestion or two.
Post by: Goex2Fwithroundball on September 23, 2016, 09:05:08 PM
My favorite place on earth. I live at my little hunting cabin on Mt. Hull during deer season. Oh and the Mexican food at Trinos!
Your rig likely needs to have the air bled from the fuel system after changing the pump and opening the filter.
Crack open both fuel lines which exit the fuel filter and enter the heads. Crank the engine to bleed the air. Crank until you get good fuel coming out without air or bubbles then tighten. If it requires continued cranking let the starter rest and cool so you don't burn it up.
Let me know how it goes.
Post by: heronblu on September 23, 2016, 09:05:49 PM
Post by: follow maggie on September 23, 2016, 10:48:14 PM
Post by: coachcw on September 24, 2016, 07:52:03 AM
Post by: timberghost72 on September 24, 2016, 12:29:05 PM
http://www.thedieselstop.com
There are specific boards for the various models and a ton of info.
Some good suggestions already posted here. Since your engine oil pressure is a part of fuel delivery control be sure to check oil level. Aeriation in the oil can also cause issues. As already stated check fuel pressure.
Good luck.
Post by: syoungs on September 24, 2016, 01:30:59 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 12:16:39 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 12:25:57 PM
From Oroville eh?
My favorite place on earth. I live at my little hunting cabin on Mt. Hull during deer season. Oh and the Mexican food at Trinos!
Your rig likely needs to have the air bled from the fuel system after changing the pump and opening the filter.
Crack open both fuel lines which exit the fuel filter and enter the heads. Crank the engine to bleed the air. Crank until you get good fuel coming out without air or bubbles then tighten. If it requires continued cranking let the starter rest and cool so you don't burn it up.
Let me know how it goes.
Yea oroville is great! If it had idaho's hunting laws and opportunitys i would still live there but sadly it doesnt.
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 12:26:50 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 02:19:01 PM
Post by: Miles on September 25, 2016, 02:29:20 PM
Post by: jmscon on September 25, 2016, 02:44:28 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 03:24:27 PM
Post by: brush hunter on September 25, 2016, 03:25:04 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 03:46:26 PM
Post by: Mudman on September 25, 2016, 04:03:34 PM
Post by: M_ray on September 25, 2016, 04:16:02 PM
Post by: Caseyd on September 25, 2016, 04:16:38 PM
Hmm I thought 94's were 6.0ltr ?
That would be 04
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 04:21:38 PM
Post by: syoungs on September 25, 2016, 04:59:27 PM
It'll also help move oil through the head galleys, air in the fuel is hard on injectors, but it'll run. Air in the oil will cause it to shut down.
Try to hold over 1500 rpm, occasionally going to redline, for 30 seconds or so, if it gets better, drive the living piss out of it, get the air out of the oil system that way.
Post by: LDennis24 on September 25, 2016, 05:07:29 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 05:15:13 PM
If it'll start and run, you can keep the Accelerator floored for a few seconds, that'll change the oil in the hpop.
It'll also help move oil through the head galleys, air in the fuel is hard on injectors, but it'll run. Air in the oil will cause it to shut down.
Try to hold over 1500 rpm, occasionally going to redline, for 30 seconds or so, if it gets better, drive the living piss out of it, get the air out of the oil system that way.
today the longest i got it to run was 15 seconds and as soon as you get on the pedal it dies
Post by: huntnphool on September 25, 2016, 05:17:26 PM
First I would like to say the 7.3L motor is a magnificent motor when taken care of. I know guy's beating the piss out of them in the oil fields and some of them have 400,000 or more miles on them. One I know of a guy couldn't get anyone to buy because it has 740,000 miles! :o I have a 99 powerstroke that is always hard to even get to fire when it's 55 degree's or cooler out. I know it needs an oil change badly and it needs a new fuel filter. I just haven't had time to do them. Your truck is probably needing the same thing's. Replace the fuel filter, change the oil, and maybe last buy a new set of injector's. Don't go buy a set of oversized injector's either. Just buy stock one's. :tup:
I'm betting your issue is the injectors, how old are they?
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 05:18:49 PM
First I would like to say the 7.3L motor is a magnificent motor when taken care of. I know guy's beating the piss out of them in the oil fields and some of them have 400,000 or more miles on them. One I know of a guy couldn't get anyone to buy because it has 740,000 miles! :o I have a 99 powerstroke that is always hard to even get to fire when it's 55 degree's or cooler out. I know it needs an oil change badly and it needs a new fuel filter. I just haven't had time to do them. Your truck is probably needing the same thing's. Replace the fuel filter, change the oil, and maybe last buy a new set of injector's. Don't go buy a set of oversized injector's either. Just buy stock one's. :tup:
well i bought it used with 212,000 miles on it so i dont know how it was taken care of but when i bought it, it started easy ran smooth and didnt smoke. I replaced the filter today. for whatever reason it will run but only after i let it sit for awhile and then only just temporary
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 05:20:07 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 05:28:04 PM
Post by: huntnphool on September 25, 2016, 05:31:30 PM
212,000
If those injectors are original it's time to replace them.
That being said, the fact that it starts at all and runs tells me that although the injectors may need to be replaced, it's doubtful it's a injector issue. My comment was addressed at Dennis, his starting issue is likely old injectors.
Post by: huntnphool on September 25, 2016, 05:35:16 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 05:36:48 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 05:37:33 PM
When it comes time to replace them http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/stock-replacement/ford-94-97-injectors.htm these guys were great to deal with.
thankyou! ill keep that for when i can get some money together
Post by: huntnphool on September 25, 2016, 05:40:06 PM
cant afford injectors now, and im going to get laid off nov 5th. If i could get the truck running decent i could cut enough firewood to get injectors. I'll try changing the oil in the truck and hpop and see if that will help some
HPOP is not cheap either http://www.thoroughbreddiesel.com/stock-replacement/ford-94-97-oil-pump.htm I'd not replace it unless you know it's bad. :twocents:
Post by: M_ray on September 25, 2016, 06:12:50 PM
Hmm I thought 94's were 6.0ltr ?
That would be 04
whoops typo ... meant 04 arent 04's 6.0?
Post by: huntnphool on September 25, 2016, 06:19:16 PM
Hmm I thought 94's were 6.0ltr ?
That would be 04
whoops typo ... meant 04 arent 04's 6.0?
Correct
Post by: M_ray on September 25, 2016, 07:47:29 PM
Hmm I thought 94's were 6.0ltr ?
That would be 04
whoops typo ... meant 04 arent 04's 6.0?
Correct
That's what I thought ... then the OP might get farther with you tube by punching in 6.0 problems rather than 7.3.
In the first post he says he refers to his 7.3 but the 04's are 6.0's and they have been known to have lots of problems that the 7.3's did not. There will be plenty of vids of 6.0's ;)
Post by: Jason on September 25, 2016, 08:25:45 PM
In his first post he says that his truck is a 1994, which is why he said the engine is a 7.3LHmm I thought 94's were 6.0ltr ?
That would be 04
whoops typo ... meant 04 arent 04's 6.0?
Correct
That's what I thought ... then the OP might get farther with you tube by punching in 6.0 problems rather than 7.3.
In the first post he says he refers to his 7.3 but the 04's are 6.0's and they have been known to have lots of problems that the 7.3's did not. There will be plenty of vids of 6.0's ;)
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 25, 2016, 09:09:02 PM
In his first post he says that his truck is a 1994, which is why he said the engine is a 7.3LHmm I thought 94's were 6.0ltr ?
That would be 04
whoops typo ... meant 04 arent 04's 6.0?
Correct
That's what I thought ... then the OP might get farther with you tube by punching in 6.0 problems rather than 7.3.
In the first post he says he refers to his 7.3 but the 04's are 6.0's and they have been known to have lots of problems that the 7.3's did not. There will be plenty of vids of 6.0's ;)
exactly, no 04 around. its a 1994 and the very first of the powerstroke i think thats why its so hard to find videos on. Only half a year of this exact motor.
Post by: LDennis24 on September 25, 2016, 10:01:08 PM
Post by: syoungs on September 25, 2016, 10:03:26 PM
Unhook your IPC sensor on the driver side head, and see if it'll run. It's most likely a oil or sensor issue.
I really dont think it'll fix your issue, but make sure the tin nut is tight on your ipr.
Your injectors are tired at 212k, but they shouldn't "need" replaced. Wouldn't cause these issues if they did either.
When you drain down your high pressure oil system (in this case by letting ot sit), they can be a real bear to get running. The fix after working on the hpop system, is to run it, and hard.
There is something with the early hoop's drain back that's different then on the newer trucks, can't remember exactly what though.
If you think it needs a hpop, I've got one sitting on my shelf from a 95, that should be the same as yours, with. 110k miles on it, I'm sure we could work out a deal on it, it was to good to scrap, but I'm running a later model front cover on the engine, so I don't need it.
Post by: syoungs on September 25, 2016, 10:04:36 PM
Try looking at the injector control pressure sensor also. Check for cracks.That's the cup, you can unplug it and run the truck with it unplugged, if it's oily inside the sensor pigtail it's no good.
Post by: jmscon on September 25, 2016, 10:36:54 PM
Post by: LDennis24 on September 26, 2016, 08:11:13 AM
This is a total shot in the dark, check the air filter. Since it sat for a while some critters could have made a nest in there and your engine is starved for air.
I actually had this happen one time, 1984 Buick that had a ton of insulation shoved into the air intake and it was full of mouse poo... Fired right up after I found that out! :chuckle:
Post by: M_ray on September 26, 2016, 08:19:45 AM
In his first post he says that his truck is a 1994, which is why he said the engine is a 7.3LHmm I thought 94's were 6.0ltr ?
That would be 04
whoops typo ... meant 04 arent 04's 6.0?
Correct
That's what I thought ... then the OP might get farther with you tube by punching in 6.0 problems rather than 7.3.
In the first post he says he refers to his 7.3 but the 04's are 6.0's and they have been known to have lots of problems that the 7.3's did not. There will be plenty of vids of 6.0's ;)
exactly, no 04 around. its a 1994 and the very first of the powerstroke i think thats why its so hard to find videos on. Only half a year of this exact motor.
Ok sorry I'm on page now!
Post by: M_ray on September 26, 2016, 08:24:00 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on September 26, 2016, 08:26:04 AM
For you mechanics out there what about the wiring harness that runs under the valve cover and fires the injectors? I had mine burn on my 7.3 and it ran like crap and wasn't even firing a cylinder or two. Could it pose other problems like the OP is having?Yes
Post by: syoungs on September 26, 2016, 08:37:02 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on September 26, 2016, 09:34:42 AM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 26, 2016, 12:25:17 PM
Try looking at the injector control pressure sensor also. Check for cracks.That's the cup, you can unplug it and run the truck with it unplugged, if it's oily inside the sensor pigtail it's no good.
ok i unplugged it and turned it over, the truck did the same thing and just ran for a second. There does looks like some oil inside it though, do you think thats the problem? im going to next try and get the old oil out of the hpop and replace with fresh oil.
Post by: DRobnsn on September 26, 2016, 01:56:28 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on September 26, 2016, 02:02:09 PM
Post by: DRobnsn on September 26, 2016, 02:05:41 PM
94 will not be OBD2.
I believe your right but I've heard of factory updates on some of the OBS trucks that converted them to OBD2.
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 26, 2016, 05:08:56 PM
Post by: DRobnsn on September 26, 2016, 05:37:30 PM
As for the diagnostics you need to find out if the truck is equipped with an OBD connector. The last OBS ford I worked on the connector was under the dash just to the right of the trans hump on the passenger side. I can't post pics so google OBD connector to see what your looking for. It's a bit of a shot in the dark being the truck is 94 but it sure would be easier to diagnose if it has one.
I would also try the HPOP oil pressure sensor trick previously mentioned before you buy anything. Its easy and free.
How many times have you had it fire and die at this point?
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 26, 2016, 06:23:51 PM
Post by: Mossy on September 26, 2016, 07:51:09 PM
Post by: syoungs on September 26, 2016, 08:00:09 PM
What you could do, is fill the resevior to within 1/4" of the plug on top, and try to start it, I suspect a hpop that I'd leaking down oil, or has lost its prime, which makes these engines a real bear to start if they aren't in perfect working order already.
You do have diagnostics, but a cheap obd reader will not work. You need auto engunity, or a snap on etc.
The cheapest way is a scangauge2, and that won't spell out your problem.
I'd be curious how many times it's actually started and how long it's ran as well.
Did you check the tin nut on the ipr? That's a free check, and I've seen more them 1 power stroke crippled by it.
Do you have a way to get the front end pointed down hill? Sometimes the oil pickup tube cracks, and pointing it downhill will make it start with all the oil in the front of the pan.
Have you plugged in the block heater when your trying to start it?
Post by: whacker1 on September 26, 2016, 08:04:48 PM
Post by: Mudman on September 26, 2016, 08:13:58 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 26, 2016, 08:17:48 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 26, 2016, 08:20:22 PM
I will clear up hpop oil I mentioned. The oil doesn't circulate well and becomes old and sludge. Oil does this in all of em. The pump circulates oil for injector pressure but does not clean itself well. I don't think this is your problem but you should clean it. I really think its a fuel filter/flow problem. Likely air in heads still. Bleeding the back of head is a PIA but I had to do it many, many times after changing injectors. Inj. harness in valve cover resulted in a miss when I dealt with that problem. Sensor it quit running. I had many issues with my old 7.3 years ago. Yes make sure the Batts. are always charged as well. Good luck.
ok ill change the oil in the hpop its easy enough to do, i bleed the lines going into the heads but only once and im not sure how well it actually worked? can i bleed right at the injectors? maybe i need to re bleed the lines going into the heads i just felt that it didnt get me anywhere and there was plenty of fuel going through
Post by: syoungs on September 26, 2016, 08:22:52 PM
The more I think about this problem, the more I think the lpop went dry, the hpop sucked out the resevior and let it run briefly, and it hasn't been able to re-prime....
Before you turn it over again, pull the upper plug and see if there is oil in the hpop res. If it's below approx 1/2" there may be supply problems, below 3/4 or 1" there def is supply problems. If it's low, fill it, and try starting, after 20ish seconds of cranking, check the level again. Might have to pull the lpop and pack it full of Vaseline to re-prime. Or it might have a cracked pickup tube, which means motor has to be lifted, preferable to remove, to fix.
Post by: syoungs on September 26, 2016, 08:23:51 PM
Can't bleed at the injector on these.
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 26, 2016, 08:30:08 PM
Post by: brush hunter on September 27, 2016, 04:38:02 AM
yea id love to get rid of it other than it is the perfect truck if it would run right, didnt kill an elk but did have a bull at 75 yards bugling at me until he winded me and busted. I couldt shoot him though because it was so thick i could only see about 20ftThat sucks, but at least you got some time in the forest.
Post by: DRobnsn on September 27, 2016, 10:02:42 AM
As for scan tools you will need a good one to see whats going on. The others mentioned work as does the matco determinator, and the autel maxiSYS. Maybe you can find someone who will loan you one for a few bucks.
Once you've exhausted all the free easy checks it may be worth looking to see if you have a mobile mechanic in the area that can come run diagnostics on it. As you've seen the 7.3's do have several things that can cause starting issues and paying for a diagnostic check can put you money ahead depending on the issue. Throwing parts at a 7.3 can get spendy quick.
Post by: Mudman on September 27, 2016, 03:00:09 PM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 28, 2016, 09:11:44 PM
Post by: Mudman on September 29, 2016, 10:56:29 AM
Post by: WA hunter14 on September 29, 2016, 06:54:35 PM
Post by: KFhunter on September 29, 2016, 07:00:07 PM
I hear there's a pretty big shortage for GM/Ford/Dodge diesel technicians.