Post by: AlbinoRhino on October 04, 2016, 09:37:56 PM
Post by: kentrek on October 04, 2016, 09:55:08 PM
Post by: hogslayer on October 04, 2016, 10:11:34 PM
Post by: theleo on October 05, 2016, 11:13:32 AM
Post by: AlbinoRhino on October 05, 2016, 11:16:29 AM
My Spartans are definitely more fragile than my old Trophy Ridge arrows, but I've also never found anything I can abuse as badly as I can those. Carnivores being a little fragile is a pretty common complaint. They're a lite weight shaft and they get that from having thinner sidewalls than most. Compared to GT Hunters the Carnivores have about a %10 thinner sidewall and save you about %10 GPI. Going liter with a thinner sidewall costs you durability, just a fact of life.
I'm shooting the 250 spine and the arrows are 9.5 gpi does the same rule apply?
Post by: coop2424 on October 05, 2016, 12:12:04 PM
Post by: theleo on October 05, 2016, 01:31:59 PM
Couldn't find anything for a 250 spine arrow for GT (haven't paid attention to GT for awhile) but your Carnivores have about the same wall thickness as a 300 spine GT. If you're truly needing a 250 spine arrow I'd imagine you'd be going through 300 spine GT Hunters as well.My Spartans are definitely more fragile than my old Trophy Ridge arrows, but I've also never found anything I can abuse as badly as I can those. Carnivores being a little fragile is a pretty common complaint. They're a lite weight shaft and they get that from having thinner sidewalls than most. Compared to GT Hunters the Carnivores have about a %10 thinner sidewall and save you about %10 GPI. Going liter with a thinner sidewall costs you durability, just a fact of life.
I'm shooting the 250 spine and the arrows are 9.5 gpi does the same rule apply?
Post by: highside74 on October 05, 2016, 01:51:01 PM
Gold Tip XT are and will continue to be my arrow of choice. I've had Easton, Carbon Express and Beman over the last 12 years and Gold Tip are by far the toughest of them all. And I can get a dozen bare shafts for under $100
Post by: AlbinoRhino on October 05, 2016, 03:10:41 PM
Couldn't find anything for a 250 spine arrow for GT (haven't paid attention to GT for awhile) but your Carnivores have about the same wall thickness as a 300 spine GT. If you're truly needing a 250 spine arrow I'd imagine you'd be going through 300 spine GT Hunters as well.My Spartans are definitely more fragile than my old Trophy Ridge arrows, but I've also never found anything I can abuse as badly as I can those. Carnivores being a little fragile is a pretty common complaint. They're a lite weight shaft and they get that from having thinner sidewalls than most. Compared to GT Hunters the Carnivores have about a %10 thinner sidewall and save you about %10 GPI. Going liter with a thinner sidewall costs you durability, just a fact of life.
I'm shooting the 250 spine and the arrows are 9.5 gpi does the same rule apply?
So here's the story I was using Gold tips before the season started and loved their product (wish they were a little heavier) all was good until I started shooting my broadheads.. it was then that I was informed that my proshop has always underspined my Arrows (#70 29 draw 30-31 inch arrow) they always set me up with 340s I came in and asked for 300 in the Gold TiP XTs and they didn't have them.. tight on cash I shopped and saw a close out on the BE carnivores for dirt cheap looking at their chart they said I needed 300 spine which were sold out.. did some research and found a lot of people claiming a slightly over spines arrow through a tuned bow will not affect arrow flight.. so I went with the 250 spine.. that's how I landed with BE carnivores and the 250 spine... so my 340 GT spine held up better then the BE 250 but the price was unbeatable (you get what you pay for).. probably to much info but that's how all this came about
Post by: theleo on October 05, 2016, 03:28:35 PM
Then I'd say it's more that the Carnivores are just a more fragile arrow than what your GT's are. You're not the first guy to notice they're a little delicate and won't be the last. I was just playing devils advocate and give some possible explanations.
So here's the story I was using Gold tips before the season started and loved their product (wish they were a little heavier) all was good until I started shooting my broadheads.. it was then that I was informed that my proshop has always underspined my Arrows (#70 29 draw 30-31 inch arrow) they always set me up with 340s I came in and asked for 300 in the Gold TiP XTs and they didn't have them.. tight on cash I shopped and saw a close out on the BE carnivores for dirt cheap looking at their chart they said I needed 300 spine which were sold out.. did some research and found a lot of people claiming a slightly over spines arrow through a tuned bow will not affect arrow flight.. so I went with the 250 spine.. that's how I landed with BE carnivores and the 250 spine... so my 340 GT spine held up better then the BE 250 but the price was unbeatable (you get what you pay for).. probably to much info but that's how all this came about
I'd be telling your shop to set you up correctly instead of with arrows they know you'd likely run into problems with.
Post by: AlbinoRhino on October 05, 2016, 03:54:27 PM
No your opinion is valued.. by shop doesn't run BE so I buy online directly but in your experience has the other models like Spartans and rampage held up fine and may be more of a issue with Carnivors ?
Post by: theleo on October 05, 2016, 07:21:16 PM
Haven't shot all of them myself , but my Spartans haven't disappointed me (the woven Trophy Ridge arrows were the toughest I've ever shot). Others I know that shoot BE arrows have been happy with the durability of the other models. If you like the standard diameter arrows I know some guys that were much happier when they moved to shooting Zombie Slayers as far as durability goes. Having the bushing on the back of the Spartans has saved me some arrows.
No your opinion is valued.. by shop doesn't run BE so I buy online directly but in your experience has the other models like Spartans and rampage held up fine and may be more of a issue with Carnivors ?
Post by: Sneaky on October 14, 2016, 11:56:12 AM
Post by: AlbinoRhino on October 14, 2016, 02:18:51 PM
My hunting partner and I switched to the rampage arrows this year. I think they are not as tough as GT arrows but that is the whole idea behind accuracy and penetration. In order to get a high FOC and better penetration, they go to a skinnier, light weight arrow with more tip weight. My arrow broke this year just behind the outsert after passing through the deer and into a tree. I have also broken several arrows at the range...but to me that is not a bad thing! I definitely had an increase in accuracy and penetration compared to the GT pro's I was shooting. Worlds toughest arrow? maybe, but the benefits of a skinnier shaft/better penetration from higher FOC outweigh the slight lack in durability.
If I keep the carnivores I'll be adding brass inserts that put me about 500 grains and 16 foc. the 250 carnivores aren't a light arrow at 9.5 gpi I'd be getting a lighter arrow at 9.2 gpi with the GT xt hunter 300s and could do the same.. have considered a small diameter arrow to but not sure if they are for me any insight from real world experience in the diameter change from standard to small (not micro)
Post by: theleo on October 14, 2016, 02:45:36 PM
Just remember, you're not comparing apples to apples here. The Carnivores are a light arrow for a 250, the 300's are .5 GPI lighter than your same spine GT arrows. So the same weight finished the Carnivores will have the higher FOC should you only do your weight adjustments at the pointy end if they are the same spine as the GT's.
If I keep the carnivores I'll be adding brass inserts that put me about 500 grains and 16 foc. the 250 carnivores aren't a light arrow at 9.5 gpi I'd be getting a lighter arrow at 9.2 gpi with the GT xt hunter 300s and could do the same.
Post by: Sneaky on October 14, 2016, 03:56:27 PM
My hunting partner and I switched to the rampage arrows this year. I think they are not as tough as GT arrows but that is the whole idea behind accuracy and penetration. In order to get a high FOC and better penetration, they go to a skinnier, light weight arrow with more tip weight. My arrow broke this year just behind the outsert after passing through the deer and into a tree. I have also broken several arrows at the range...but to me that is not a bad thing! I definitely had an increase in accuracy and penetration compared to the GT pro's I was shooting. Worlds toughest arrow? maybe, but the benefits of a skinnier shaft/better penetration from higher FOC outweigh the slight lack in durability.
If I keep the carnivores I'll be adding brass inserts that put me about 500 grains and 16 foc. the 250 carnivores aren't a light arrow at 9.5 gpi I'd be getting a lighter arrow at 9.2 gpi with the GT xt hunter 300s and could do the same.. have considered a small diameter arrow to but not sure if they are for me any insight from real world experience in the diameter change from standard to small (not micro)
here is what I learned this summer:
My buddy and I both saved up money for a duck lease that fell through. We then both purchased new bows with the money. I went with a 70lb mathews halon 7 @ 30" draw. He went with a 60lb Bowtech BTX-31 @ 28" draw. He was shooting about a 380gr black eagle rampage while I was shooting 440gr goldtip pro hunters. Now the IBO speed of the bowtech blows my bow out of the water, but he is losing some speed that I gain in DL. He is also losing 10lbs of draw weight in energy.
We were achieving similar accuracy while I would give him the slight edge at this point out past 60 yards, but we would do a walkthrough course and his arrows were burying several inches further into the target than mine, even when accounting for the difference in arrow length. With 10lbs less draw weight he was getting superior penetration consistently. I looked at what he was doing differently and it really came down to his arrows were skinnier and had way more FOC, like his were 16% to my 9% with the goldtips.
From there I purchased the lost camo crested carnivores just like you did and I used a brass insert, went to somewhere around 13% FOC. My groups got tighter with the straighter arrows and the penetration improved, but his arrows were still penetrating more than mine even at 10lbs lighter draw.
The answer then became increase FOC and go to a skinnier arrow. I got on the rampage wagon and ordered several dozen in 300 spine with the 56 grain stainless half-out. We both shot bucks this year and got pass throughs. He was able to also get a full pass through on his elk as well. All with rage expandable broadheads 2" cut slowing the arrows down....
Lots of trial and error but I learned a ton and have been very happy with BE arrows. The carnivores are a very accurate shaft and I think you will do well with the brass inserts, but a skinnier arrow does help. I recommend the rampages because you don't have to use a pin nock. I replace the BE R-Nocks with easton X nocks. Good luck!
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on October 14, 2016, 08:47:37 PM
I do think GT is an overall "tougher" arrow. However I have no personal experience with them.