Post by: MLCoug on November 23, 2016, 05:35:34 PM
Post by: Kazekurt on November 23, 2016, 06:03:21 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 23, 2016, 06:07:05 PM
Also
Saw scouting pictures from a buddy...quite a few really nice bucks...Alive and well.
Post by: kirkl on November 23, 2016, 06:37:11 PM
Post by: steeleywhopper on November 23, 2016, 07:18:59 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 23, 2016, 07:22:29 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 23, 2016, 07:22:47 PM
Does anyone know the boundaries of the Yakima Nation hunting area?
http://www.yakamanation-nsn.gov/docs/CededMap0001.pdf
Think this is right from there web site.
Post by: steeleywhopper on November 23, 2016, 07:30:06 PM
Does anyone know the boundaries of the Yakima Nation hunting area?
http://www.yakamanation-nsn.gov/docs/CededMap0001.pdf
Think this is right from there web site.
:yike:
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 23, 2016, 07:57:26 PM
I know a few that have hunted the desert for a long time and didn't hear anybody complaining then. There's bucks getting pulled out of there but really doubt it's that high, but what the heck, HW courts been lagging until recently so why not get it back in session with the other recent threads brought back to life. :chuckle:
Post by: JJB11B on November 23, 2016, 08:04:44 PM
So I heard a rumor and want to know if it's true, I heard from a guy who heard from a guy that knows a guy that works for wdfw that said... :chuckle:its the dang injuns....you know that
I know a few that have hunted the desert for a long time and didn't hear anybody complaining then. There's bucks getting pulled out of there but really doubt it's that high, but what the heck, HW courts been lagging until recently so why not get it back in session with the other recent threads brought back to life. :chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 23, 2016, 08:09:40 PM
Post by: mdbuck5x5 on November 23, 2016, 08:17:53 PM
Yeah eastern wa.
:chuckle:
Post by: Bango skank on November 23, 2016, 08:22:06 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on November 23, 2016, 08:28:39 PM
funny how one elk or deer becomes dozens when non tribal people with guns lay down and leave many elk and deer. Why? In some areas it is simple. Blame the Indians it is always their fault!
Shame!
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 23, 2016, 08:30:28 PM
Yeah eastern wa.
Hey! Why are you selling get us short??? You're forgetting a good chunk of western wa., parts of Idaho and Oregon. :chuckle: :tup:
Post by: MtnMuley on November 23, 2016, 08:34:47 PM
Post by: mfswallace on November 23, 2016, 08:38:06 PM
HUNTER IGNORANCE AT IT'S FINEST! So who is this friend? And who is is friend? If he really has a friend in WDFW, what does he do? Is he in the know or is he some low level labor that over heard that I tribal member harvested a nice buck? Ask your self how hard is it to harvest in the desert unit? It is not permit only because of a plethora of deer! So what is the probability that a few tribal members could harvest 28 deer in a short period of time?
funny how one elk or deer becomes dozens when non tribal people with guns lay down and leave many elk and deer. Why? In some areas it is simple. Blame the Indians it is always their fault!
Shame!
Nevermind
Post by: jrebel on November 23, 2016, 08:41:54 PM
It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks others don't in this day and age is pathetic and will continue to continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: JJB11B on November 23, 2016, 08:43:43 PM
:yeah: (At the risk of being called a "racisss")It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks others don't in this day and age is pathetic and will continue to continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: jackmaster on November 23, 2016, 08:50:56 PM
It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks that others don't in this day and age and it's pathetic and will continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents::yeah: :yeah: equality for everyone , get rid of the reservations!! Everyone has to pay their taxes and everyone has to hunt the same, well under the same laws!! I think it's time that ALL people are treated the EXACT same, it isn't fair for us that had nothing to do with what happened ions ago to still be punished for it!! Sportsmans lives matter too !!! :tup:
Post by: JJB11B on November 23, 2016, 08:52:05 PM
you broke the "yeah that" chain :yeah:It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks that others don't in this day and age and it's pathetic and will continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents::yeah: :yeah: equality for everyone , get rid of the reservations!! Everyone has to pay their taxes and everyone has to hunt the same, well under the same laws!! I think it's time that ALL people are treated the EXACT same, it isn't fair for us that had nothing to do with what happened ions ago to still be punished for it!! Sportsmans lives matter too !!! :tup:
Post by: Bango skank on November 23, 2016, 08:53:15 PM
you broke the "yeah that" chainIt's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks that others don't in this day and age and it's pathetic and will continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents::yeah: :yeah: equality for everyone , get rid of the reservations!! Everyone has to pay their taxes and everyone has to hunt the same, well under the same laws!! I think it's time that ALL people are treated the EXACT same, it isn't fair for us that had nothing to do with what happened ions ago to still be punished for it!! Sportsmans lives matter too !!! :tup:
:yeah:
Post by: mfswallace on November 23, 2016, 08:53:47 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on November 23, 2016, 09:01:46 PM
So I heard a rumor and want to know if it's true, I heard from a guy who heard from a guy that knows a guy that works for wdfw that said... :chuckle:
I know a few that have hunted the desert for a long time and didn't hear anybody complaining then. There's bucks getting pulled out of there but really doubt it's that high, but what the heck, HW courts been lagging until recently so why not get it back in session with the other recent threads brought back to life. :chuckle:
Most seasons are about over these threads will pop back up now :chuckle:
Post by: kirkl on November 23, 2016, 09:07:08 PM
Post by: jrebel on November 23, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Post by: Igottanewknee on November 23, 2016, 09:14:36 PM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.Point taken......
Shoot all you want, don't report... I believe the squaxin Island
tribe does the same... ex wife's ex husband is tribal member.. no accounting for what they shoot.
Open everything to everyone, make it fair. Or get control of it all.... :twocents:
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 23, 2016, 09:32:46 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 23, 2016, 09:37:02 PM
equality, I'll believe it when I see it.
Post by: trophyhunt on November 23, 2016, 09:59:41 PM
Post by: sled on November 23, 2016, 10:00:23 PM
:yeah:It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks others don't in this day and age is pathetic and will continue to continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: trophyhunt on November 23, 2016, 10:04:48 PM
They only get it back in session cause it's true. Same as the Yakima firing center. GMU 342 goes from permit only to open season and firing center goes from 40 some tags to 6 or less.Used to be 75 tags, really sad.
Post by: BoomWhop on November 24, 2016, 12:08:13 AM
Post by: outdooraddict on November 24, 2016, 07:27:45 AM
Post by: tgomez on November 24, 2016, 07:56:50 AM
Post by: jackknife on November 24, 2016, 07:58:56 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
Post by: jackknife on November 24, 2016, 08:10:45 AM
Post by: TikkaT3-270Shortmag on November 24, 2016, 08:36:08 AM
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Post by: boneaddict on November 24, 2016, 08:47:57 AM
Post by: jrebel on November 24, 2016, 09:27:09 AM
Ya they are subsistence hunting lmao shooting trophy's
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
:yeah:
And buying all their fix'ns at Wallmart. Wonder how their ancesters got their fix'ns? But some things should never change.....because we get to pick and choose what we want to keep as our heritage / traditions. :bash: :bash: :bash: Be proud of heritage / history and even more so....be proud to BE AN AMERICAN!! This country is still very much devided, this is just one example. We have a group that does not realize times change and their way of living has changed. Some for the better and some for the worst....but if we ALL (AMERICANS) want to enjoy our game for years to come, we need to collectively manage our herds. Taking a large portion of the breeding stock / genetics from an area is down right reckless. Your ancesters would be very dissapointed in your actions.....for the sole reason of "because I can."
Post by: trophyhunt on November 24, 2016, 09:42:28 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 24, 2016, 09:59:07 AM
It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks that others don't in this day and age and it's pathetic and will continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents:I hear speculation that tribes (especially with gambling operations) may be in for a bumpy road. The new president-elect doesn't have much of a soft spot for tribal casinos and betting. He lost billions after a couple tribes in Connecticut were granted gaming licenses and diverted a huge amount of people away from Atlantic City.
Post by: gonehuntin68 on November 24, 2016, 10:14:20 AM
It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks that others don't in this day and age and it's pathetic and will continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents:I hear speculation that tribes (especially with gambling operations) may be in for a bumpy road. The new president-elect doesn't have much of a soft spot for tribal casinos and betting. He lost billions after a couple tribes in Connecticut were granted gaming licenses and diverted a huge amount of people away from Atlantic City.
Don't think it will help with anything but I'll be writing him a letter.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on November 24, 2016, 10:38:20 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.I am curious as to why there is no reporting. How is the state going to try and manage if they don't know the harvest numbers from everyone. ?
Post by: logger on November 24, 2016, 10:40:25 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.Shouldn't the tribe be reporting their take to the state as co managers of the resource? only makes since to share the data. not looking to piss in anybody's corn flakes, having a relative who is a game warden and half my family being yakama's I try to refrain from upsetting either side for the family's sake, however if they are truly "co managers " as they claim then sharing the data with each other should be benifical to the resource. I do know the state has to pony up their info.
Post by: Bullkllr on November 24, 2016, 10:52:07 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.I am curious as to why there is no reporting. How is the state going to try and manage if they don't know the harvest numbers from everyone. ?
Well, when you write your own rules, to the point where you don't really care what the others are doing, why would you?
Post by: jrod on November 24, 2016, 10:58:37 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
It's guys like you that give the Yakima's such a bad name!!! & as far as praising fer one thing & not the other!!!! the colville tribe gets all the praising !!!! At least they have a game management plan!!! That works!!! What do the yakimas do!!??? Not a dam thing !!!!!
Post by: Timberstalker on November 24, 2016, 11:33:26 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
It's guys like you that give the Yakima's such a bad name!!! & as far as praising fer one thing & not the other!!!! the colville tribe gets all the praising !!!! At least they have a game management plan!!! That works!!! What do the yakimas do!!??? Not a dam thing !!!!!
You obviously don't read PlateauNDN's posts or understand his stance. I do not support the current native harvest, however PlateauNDN's stance is as good as it gets. You're off base on your assumption.
Post by: sled on November 24, 2016, 11:41:25 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.so what your saying is that it could be more than that? :chuckle: sorry had to :stirthepot:
Post by: jrod on November 24, 2016, 11:44:34 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
It's guys like you that give the Yakima's such a bad name!!! & as far as praising fer one thing & not the other!!!! the colville tribe gets all the praising !!!! At least they have a game management plan!!! That works!!! What do the yakimas do!!??? Not a dam thing !!!!!
You obviously don't read PlateauNDN's posts or understand his stance. I do not support the current native harvest, however PlateauNDN's stance is as good as it gets. You're off base on your assumption.
No I've read quite a bit of his post bud!! I'm just on a different base than you that's all!!
Post by: buckfvr on November 24, 2016, 12:15:00 PM
It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks others don't in this day and age is pathetic and will continue to continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents:
:yeah:
Sounds great, but how does divide and conquer work with that ??? People cant be equal because politicians wont be able to court fringe groups and minorities.......everyone gets something for nothing except white middle america......the working class, those burdened by taxes that fund the unwilling.
Post by: JLS on November 24, 2016, 12:16:58 PM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.Shouldn't the tribe be reporting their take to the state as co managers of the resource? only makes since to share the data. not looking to piss in anybody's corn flakes, having a relative who is a game warden and half my family being yakama's I try to refrain from upsetting either side for the family's sake, however if they are truly "co managers " as they claim then sharing the data with each other should be benifical to the resource. I do know the state has to pony up their info.
If the state was to have true co-management with the tribes, you are correct. Harvest data from tribal take would be reported accurately. I think it's a pretty safe statement to say that across the board, this cooperation does not happen.
Post by: sagerat on November 24, 2016, 12:36:32 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 24, 2016, 03:36:18 PM
You'd stop at the checkstation Plat. The last time I was there 4 guys with automatic weapons make sure of it. Their basic function is to make sure people aren't stealing artifacts I think.
Yes I know there's a check station at YTC but the discussion isn't about the YTC it's about the desert. There's no check station that I'm aware of in or near the desert.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 24, 2016, 03:41:44 PM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.so what your saying is that it could be more than that? :chuckle: sorry had to :stirthepot:
It might and it might not be. All I'm saying is, how many times had rumors turned out to be highly inaccurate, not necessarily all inaccurate just overly exaggerated.
It could be 10% or 50% of the 28 bucks, but saying so and so said because he heard from so and so who knows so and so doesn't help.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 24, 2016, 03:43:12 PM
OP, are you referring to the Desert Unit as stated in the title or are you referring to the YTC where there is guards and mandatory reporting?
Post by: sled on November 24, 2016, 04:18:39 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 24, 2016, 04:24:54 PM
Post by: rasbo on November 24, 2016, 04:58:34 PM
Post by: fish vacuum on November 24, 2016, 05:17:07 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 24, 2016, 05:30:15 PM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
It's guys like you that give the Yakima's such a bad name!!! & as far as praising fer one thing & not the other!!!! the colville tribe gets all the praising !!!! At least they have a game management plan!!! That works!!! What do the yakimas do!!??? Not a dam thing !!!!!
You obviously don't read PlateauNDN's posts or understand his stance. I do not support the current native harvest, however PlateauNDN's stance is as good as it gets. You're off base on your assumption.
No I've read quite a bit of his post bud!! I'm just on a different base than you that's all!!
Hahaha, if you believe I give my Tribe a bad name then I'm obviously an angel compared to those a lot lower than me. :chuckle:
Post by: DaveMonti on November 24, 2016, 05:44:40 PM
Post by: jrod on November 24, 2016, 06:03:25 PM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
It's guys like you that give the Yakima's such a bad name!!! & as far as praising fer one thing & not the other!!!! the colville tribe gets all the praising !!!! At least they have a game management plan!!! That works!!! What do the yakimas do!!??? Not a dam thing !!!!!
You obviously don't read PlateauNDN's posts or understand his stance. I do not support the current native harvest, however PlateauNDN's stance is as good as it gets. You're off base on your assumption.
No I've read quite a bit of his post bud!! I'm just on a different base than you that's all!!
Hahaha, if you believe I give my Tribe a bad name then I'm obviously an angel compared to those a lot lower than me. :chuckle:
No..... yer no angel!!!.... yer just a guy who's been riding his ansestors coat tails his whole life !!!! :twocents: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Tbar on November 24, 2016, 06:24:00 PM
I think the OP just stirred the pot and left. Probably getting the exact reaction he intended. I'm sure he won't chime in unless it's to create more sparks.
:yeah:
Post by: JJB11B on November 24, 2016, 08:57:40 PM
If I had a "Tribe" people would call me a racist :chuckle:Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
It's guys like you that give the Yakima's such a bad name!!! & as far as praising fer one thing & not the other!!!! the colville tribe gets all the praising !!!! At least they have a game management plan!!! That works!!! What do the yakimas do!!??? Not a dam thing !!!!!
You obviously don't read PlateauNDN's posts or understand his stance. I do not support the current native harvest, however PlateauNDN's stance is as good as it gets. You're off base on your assumption.
No I've read quite a bit of his post bud!! I'm just on a different base than you that's all!!
Hahaha, if you believe I give my Tribe a bad name then I'm obviously an angel compared to those a lot lower than me. :chuckle:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 24, 2016, 10:06:50 PM
Or he's been busy seeing that it was Turkey day and just might have had other things on his plate. :dunno: We'll see....I think the OP just stirred the pot and left. Probably getting the exact reaction he intended. I'm sure he won't chime in unless it's to create more sparks.
:yeah:
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 25, 2016, 11:13:08 AM
I've shot that many myself......Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.so what your saying is that it could be more than that? :chuckle: sorry had to :stirthepot:
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 25, 2016, 11:18:47 AM
Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.
It's guys like you that give the Yakima's such a bad name!!! & as far as praising fer one thing & not the other!!!! the colville tribe gets all the praising !!!! At least they have a game management plan!!! That works!!! What do the yakimas do!!??? Not a dam thing !!!!!
You obviously don't read PlateauNDN's posts or understand his stance. I do not support the current native harvest, however PlateauNDN's stance is as good as it gets. You're off base on your assumption.
No I've read quite a bit of his post bud!! I'm just on a different base than you that's all!!
Hahaha, if you believe I give my Tribe a bad name then I'm obviously an angel compared to those a lot lower than me. :chuckle:
No..... yer no angel!!!.... yer just a guy who's been riding his ansestors coat tails his whole life !!!! :twocents: :chuckle: :chuckle:
[/quote
Then ride the coat tails of yours and set sail
:chuckle:
Post by: Bullkllr on November 25, 2016, 11:19:12 AM
I've shot that many myself......Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.so what your saying is that it could be more than that? :chuckle: sorry had to :stirthepot:
Nice way to deflect the negative comments right there! :tup:
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 25, 2016, 11:25:40 AM
:tup:I've shot that many myself......Another question, how does the wdfw officer know the exact number taken? Of the many times I've been in the desert unit I have yet to see a wdfw officer. Since when did we start reporting our kills to the state or is there a check point up there, not that I'd stop if there was one.so what your saying is that it could be more than that? :chuckle: sorry had to :stirthepot:
Nice way to deflect the negative comments right there! :tup:
You're welcome, just doin as he is doing
Post by: 400out on November 25, 2016, 12:16:37 PM
I get Pissed about it every year and yet it feels like the emoji! brick wall + head!
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 25, 2016, 12:37:51 PM
So I heard a rumor and want to know if it's true, I heard from a guy who heard from a guy that knows a guy that works for wdfw that said... :chuckle:
I know a few that have hunted the desert for a long time and didn't hear anybody complaining then. There's bucks getting pulled out of there but really doubt it's that high, but what the heck, HW courts been lagging until recently so why not get it back in session with the other recent threads brought back to life. :chuckle:
"...up to 28..." Could be 1, could be 28. But I'm going to get really mad before I find out for sure. Damned Injuns :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 25, 2016, 12:39:58 PM
that's it Im moving to Canada.. :chuckle:
You could probably hitch a ride with California. :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on November 25, 2016, 12:42:48 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 25, 2016, 12:48:53 PM
that's it Im moving to Canada.. :chuckle:
You could probably hitch a ride with California. :chuckle:
And here I thought he was a eastsider but he was a transplant Westsider sent to spy on us eastsiders'. :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2016, 02:32:08 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 25, 2016, 03:17:50 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 25, 2016, 03:19:28 PM
You're a sick sick man :bdid: :bdid: :bdid: :tup: :tup: :tup:
Oh I mean >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 25, 2016, 05:00:07 PM
Post by: sagerat on November 25, 2016, 06:21:52 PM
Whoa whoa whoa...things just got >:( >:( >:(
This has obviously turned into a joke
Post by: Tbar on November 25, 2016, 06:28:34 PM
Turned into a joke? It started out as one! The OP had/ has no credible reason for starting this thread (joke).Whoa whoa whoa...things just got >:( >:( >:(
This has obviously turned into a joke
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2016, 06:33:08 PM
Post by: Igor on November 25, 2016, 06:36:02 PM
Post by: sagerat on November 25, 2016, 06:45:15 PM
Situation is not a joke, but without facts, or even with facts, we are basically stuck in a crappy situation.
That's the truth
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 25, 2016, 08:45:55 PM
Situation is not a joke, but without facts, or even with facts, we are basically stuck in a crappy situation.
I agree it's not a joke but someone comes on here spewing rumors like fox and cnn and not backing it up with credible evidence and expect me to take them serious. Sounds like Hillary type tactics. :chuckle:
Again, how does a wdfw officer know that many bucks were pulled out of there when I've been up there the last couple years about a dozen total times and have not seen a single officer? :dunno:
Post by: LDennis24 on November 25, 2016, 09:10:28 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 25, 2016, 09:47:23 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2016, 09:58:48 PM
Quote
gain, how does a wdfw officer know that many bucks were pulled out of there when I've been up there the last couple years about a dozen total times and have not seen a single officer? :dunno:Agreed.
Post by: boneaddict on November 25, 2016, 09:59:48 PM
Wait a sec. You go through the YTC to get to the Desert Unit? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:Same nonsensical tactics time. Really?
Post by: rasbo on November 26, 2016, 04:36:26 AM
damn my cover is blown,, :chuckle: :chuckle:Im lost on this thread,are you guys talking the desert unit by mardon??If so Indians aren't the problem,illegals are taking deerthat's it Im moving to Canada.. :chuckle:
You could probably hitch a ride with California. :chuckle:
And here I thought he was a eastsider but he was a transplant Westsider sent to spy on us eastsiders'. :chuckle:
Post by: 180-GRAIN on November 26, 2016, 07:36:19 AM
It's 2016. All these racial tensions these days and people wanting equality. I say since we all have a fair shot in today's society, that we all have to play by the same rules. :dunno: Some people get perks that others don't in this day and age and it's pathetic and will continue to create divide us. Stupid simple to fix. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 26, 2016, 08:41:40 AM
:bdid: :bdid: :chuckle: :chuckle: :sry: :sry: notWait a sec. You go through the YTC to get to the Desert Unit? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:Same nonsensical tactics time. Really?
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 26, 2016, 08:57:06 AM
damn my cover is blown,, :chuckle: :chuckle:Im lost on this thread,are you guys talking the desert unit by mardon??If so Indians aren't the problem,illegals are taking deerthat's it Im moving to Canada.. :chuckle:
You could probably hitch a ride with California. :chuckle:
And here I thought he was a eastsider but he was a transplant Westsider sent to spy on us eastsiders'. :chuckle:
Hey hey hey...we're here to bash Yakamas and the complete and udder road hunting destruction we're causing in the desert unit not talk or discuss undocumented workers. You can start your own thread for that. :chuckle:
Post by: mfswallace on November 26, 2016, 09:07:58 AM
damn my cover is blown,, :chuckle: :chuckle:Im lost on this thread,are you guys talking the desert unit by mardon??If so Indians aren't the problem,illegals are taking deerthat's it Im moving to Canada.. :chuckle:
You could probably hitch a ride with California. :chuckle:
And here I thought he was a eastsider but he was a transplant Westsider sent to spy on us eastsiders'. :chuckle:
Hey hey hey...we're here to bash Yakamas and the complete and udder road hunting destruction we're causing in the desert unit not talk or discuss undocumented workers. You can start your own thread for that. :chuckle:
U guys can keep with the joking and diluting a very real problem but Natives' and poachers(white,brown,green) have, like the YTC, turned this unit into a shadow of what it was :twocents:
I used to watch 20-30 trophy bucks year round with 40-50 young up and comers always around, not anymore and whether WDFW bios will admit it all my friends and customers can attest to that fact!!
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 26, 2016, 09:13:37 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 26, 2016, 09:19:57 AM
damn my cover is blown,, :chuckle: :chuckle:Im lost on this thread,are you guys talking the desert unit by mardon??If so Indians aren't the problem,illegals are taking deerthat's it Im moving to Canada.. :chuckle:
You could probably hitch a ride with California. :chuckle:
And here I thought he was a eastsider but he was a transplant Westsider sent to spy on us eastsiders'. :chuckle:
Hey hey hey...we're here to bash Yakamas and the complete and udder road hunting destruction we're causing in the desert unit not talk or discuss undocumented workers. You can start your own thread for that. :chuckle:
U guys can keep with the joking and diluting a very real problem but Natives' and poachers(white,brown,green) have, like the YTC, turned this unit into a shadow of what it was :twocents:
I used to watch 20-30 trophy bucks year round with 40-50 young up and comers always around, not anymore and whether WDFW bios will admit it all my friends and customers can attest to that fact!!
It diluted and turned to a joke when the OP couldn't backup the claim. Much like fox and cnn blasting Donald, smoke and mirrors.
Like I said, I don't doubt there's been some harvested but not at the level stated. Deer are far and few between in there when it comes to road hunting. You've got to get out on foot and find them and there's not many I know that do that.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on November 26, 2016, 09:21:43 AM
U guys can keep with the joking and diluting a very real problem but Natives' and poachers(white,brown,green) have, like the YTC, turned this unit into a shadow of what it was :twocents:
I used to watch 20-30 trophy bucks year round with 40-50 young up and comers always around, not anymore and whether WDFW bios will admit it all my friends and customers can attest to that fact!!
I know of a few other units that have gone to pot over the years without any native harvest. WDFW manages for "opportunity not quality" straight from the horses mouth. Get used to it.
Post by: notellumcreek on November 26, 2016, 09:35:13 AM
You know, now that I think about it...This could be an attempt to create chaos and have people see this as a less desirable tag and stop applying to increase draw odds. :dunno: just sayin'...:yeah:
This is what I was starting to think after not seeing anymore posts from the OP
Post by: logger on November 26, 2016, 10:39:58 AM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on November 26, 2016, 10:45:43 AM
Instead, they are focusing on ripping out roads from under our feet (Little Naches Watershed Project) and filling creeks and rivers with wood (Cowiche, Oak Creek, Bumping River). I only see them caring about the fish :twocents:.
Post by: huntnphool on November 26, 2016, 10:50:50 AM
udder road huntingdamn my cover is blown,, :chuckle: :chuckle:Im lost on this thread,are you guys talking the desert unit by mardon??If so Indians aren't the problem,illegals are taking deerthat's it Im moving to Canada.. :chuckle:
You could probably hitch a ride with California. :chuckle:
And here I thought he was a eastsider but he was a transplant Westsider sent to spy on us eastsiders'. :chuckle:
You'd likely have better success trolling Broadway.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 26, 2016, 11:32:48 AM
If the yakamas cared, they'd be out doing wildlife studies with the muckleshoots.
If you think that's a mutual benefit you're sadly mistaken. That's a 1 way benefit in disguise.
But, if you want to fly the friendship flag with the mucks be my guest
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 26, 2016, 03:26:33 PM
Post by: mfswallace on November 26, 2016, 07:55:51 PM
You know, now that I think about it...This could be an attempt to create chaos and have people see this as a less desirable tag and stop applying to increase draw odds. :dunno: just sayin'...
Just like your attempts at making everyone believe natives are so lazy that all they do is road hunt :chuckle:
Post by: Bango skank on November 26, 2016, 07:57:14 PM
You know, now that I think about it...This could be an attempt to create chaos and have people see this as a less desirable tag and stop applying to increase draw odds. :dunno: just sayin'...
Just like your attempts at making everyone believe natives are so lazy that all they do is road hunt :chuckle:
The whole tribe must be in on it. :chuckle:
Post by: trophyhunt on November 26, 2016, 08:14:36 PM
plat, I just about puked in my mouth when I read that from naches, ugh!If the yakamas cared, they'd be out doing wildlife studies with the muckleshoots.
If you think that's a mutual benefit you're sadly mistaken. That's a 1 way benefit in disguise.
But, if you want to fly the friendship flag with the mucks be my guest
Post by: Jpmiller on November 28, 2016, 06:47:43 AM
Isn't this a negotiated right the natives have? I certainly would not give up any of my rights no matter how loud anyone else complained. Next we will be letting Hillary have the presidency because some people don't think it's right. I am not a native, related to one, or even really friends witg any for the record.
Post by: JJB11B on November 28, 2016, 06:06:22 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 28, 2016, 06:46:32 PM
Post by: dvolmer on November 29, 2016, 08:24:54 AM
Post by: Igottanewknee on November 29, 2016, 08:44:20 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 29, 2016, 09:04:40 AM
Post by: logger on November 29, 2016, 09:21:49 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 29, 2016, 09:28:52 AM
Post by: mfswallace on November 29, 2016, 11:00:24 AM
Mr. Ford, take a closer look at the billions spent annually on feeding, clothing, housing, educating and providing health care on illegal immigrants. Just sayin'...
:tup: :bash: :bdid:
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 29, 2016, 11:44:46 AM
Post by: MerriamMagician on November 29, 2016, 01:33:29 PM
Post by: sagerat on November 29, 2016, 01:44:18 PM
Instead of continuing on with all the bashing, does anyone have any legitimate information they can contribute on the original topic? I'm more interested in hearing about actual hunting and deer taken in the desert unit rather than seeing page after page of Indian bashing. The archery season is still going on out there after all. Wonder how they are faring....
Good luck ever getting legit info on the tribal harvest
Post by: JJB11B on November 29, 2016, 02:45:13 PM
I'm sure someone's going to say it so, yes, I know he's dead.who is dead?
Post by: OutHouse on November 29, 2016, 02:48:09 PM
Instead of continuing on with all the bashing, does anyone have any legitimate information they can contribute on the original topic? I'm more interested in hearing about actual hunting and deer taken in the desert unit rather than seeing page after page of Indian bashing. The archery season is still going on out there after all. Wonder how they are faring....
I completely agree. The original poster's comment was the third level of he said, she said gossip. Such juvenile behavior is fair game for high school kids, but totally out of place and borderline irresponsible for an adult to partake in. I think others have said something similar to what I just said, and it is quite telling that the original poster has not responded with any facts at all. It's very clear that hardly anyone on this sight understands that the Natives merely reserved rights that they already had under their tribal systems. Native hunting rights are in fact better than the hunting rights that come from European legal systems (as reflected in our hunting laws). That is our problem, not the Native American's. Heck, way back in the day all the forest belonged to the king and most people underneath him could not hunt it at all. Bottom line, Europeans (myself included) did not fight hard enough for their hunting rights when all the laws were made. The Natives did fight hard and they got what they wanted. Thus, jealousy and resentment runs rampant on these Native bashing threads.
Post by: trophyhunt on November 29, 2016, 03:45:10 PM
So are you a native or do you just hunt with them? :chuckle: To be serious though, it's those that abuse their rights that cause bashing! Some natives don't even follow their own tribal laws, I know non natives poach, but at least the non natives that poach have to answer to someone if caught. In today's environment everybody wants to be equal, with tribal laws separate from ours, being equal can't happen. Besides, I don't think a "support tribal hunting rights" thread would be very positive either. 😎Instead of continuing on with all the bashing, does anyone have any legitimate information they can contribute on the original topic? I'm more interested in hearing about actual hunting and deer taken in the desert unit rather than seeing page after page of Indian bashing. The archery season is still going on out there after all. Wonder how they are faring....
I completely agree. The original poster's comment was the third level of he said, she said gossip. Such juvenile behavior is fair game for high school kids, but totally out of place and borderline irresponsible for an adult to partake in. I think others have said something similar to what I just said, and it is quite telling that the original poster has not responded with any facts at all. It's very clear that hardly anyone on this sight understands that the Natives merely reserved rights that they already had under their tribal systems. Native hunting rights are in fact better than the hunting rights that come from European legal systems (as reflected in our hunting laws). That is our problem, not the Native American's. Heck, way back in the day all the forest belonged to the king and most people underneath him could not hunt it at all. Bottom line, Europeans (myself included) did not fight hard enough for their hunting rights when all the laws were made. The Natives did fight hard and they got what they wanted. Thus, jealousy and resentment runs rampant on these Native bashing threads.
Post by: benhuntin on November 29, 2016, 04:06:28 PM
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Post by: trophyhunt on November 29, 2016, 04:12:55 PM
I haven't read any of this thread but there were 7 rifle hunters out there this last weekend with the archery special tag holders.7 native hunters? Pics or it didn't happen!!
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Post by: sagerat on November 29, 2016, 04:30:03 PM
I haven't read any of this thread but there were 7 rifle hunters out there this last weekend with the archery special tag holders.7 native hunters? Pics or it didn't happen!!
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I believe it
Post by: benhuntin on November 29, 2016, 06:40:18 PM
Ok it didn't happen. I could give a damn.I haven't read any of this thread but there were 7 rifle hunters out there this last weekend with the archery special tag holders.7 native hunters? Pics or it didn't happen!!
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: trophyhunt on November 29, 2016, 07:17:29 PM
I was just messinOk it didn't happen. I could give a damn.I haven't read any of this thread but there were 7 rifle hunters out there this last weekend with the archery special tag holders.7 native hunters? Pics or it didn't happen!!
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: OutHouse on November 29, 2016, 07:58:30 PM
[/quote]
Not Native and don't hunt with them.
However, you mention inequality and that goes back to what I was saying: we aren't all born equal. Most people's advantages come from accident of birth i.e. how much money their parent's made while they grew up OR what special privileges they got because of who they had connections with etc..
I live pretty close to the Yakima reservation and I know for fact that they have tribal officers/wardens who do enforce their rules. People who are upset with the differing systems have a remedy. Apply pressure to the state legislature to make our laws as good as the Native's in terms of seasons, bag limits etc.. Does no good to whine about it online.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 29, 2016, 08:00:41 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 29, 2016, 08:06:29 PM
Quote
Apply pressure to the state legislature to make our laws as good as the Native's in terms of seasons, bag limits etc.. Does no good to whine about it online.
You've got to be kidding. So you think we should pressure the state to give us a year around season with absolutely no limit to how many deer or elk each person can kill per year?
And as to the whining about it online, it actually does do some good, because it's due to all the "whining" over the last several years on this site that I've been made aware of how bad the problem really is.
Many of the Yakama tribal members kill trophy size deer and elk for no reason other than to sell the heads. And again, they can kill as many as they want, and there is no season. If we all could do that, there would be no deer or elk left in the state.
Post by: jrod on November 29, 2016, 08:06:42 PM
Post by: TheKid#10 on November 29, 2016, 08:18:39 PM
Looks like sustenance hunting to me. :rolleyes:
Post by: Naches Sportsman on November 29, 2016, 08:18:56 PM
*Well at least he can't hunt as he's dead. His family will probably continue to hunt though.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 29, 2016, 08:25:18 PM
*Well at least he can't hunt as he's dead. His family will probably continue to hunt though.
How did he die?
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 29, 2016, 08:30:50 PM
*Well at least he can't hunt as he's dead. His family will probably continue to hunt though.
How did he die?
Karma I'm guessing
Post by: Tbar on November 29, 2016, 08:36:44 PM
Post by: kirkl on November 29, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on November 29, 2016, 08:56:45 PM
*Well at least he can't hunt as he's dead. His family will probably continue to hunt though.
How did he die?
Cancer
Post by: MtnMuley on November 29, 2016, 08:57:57 PM
Some of you are classy.
What's goes around comes around. :dunno:
Post by: Tbar on November 29, 2016, 09:15:12 PM
Nice! You could let him RIP.Some of you are classy.
What's goes around comes around. :dunno:
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 29, 2016, 09:20:22 PM
I'm not doubting or calling you out Ben, just inquiring.
Post by: MtnMuley on November 29, 2016, 09:23:28 PM
Nice! You could let him RIP.Some of you are classy.
What's goes around comes around. :dunno:
Apparently you have no clue what the P stands for.
Post by: Tbar on November 29, 2016, 09:25:47 PM
Yes, you are correct, please enlighten me.Nice! You could let him RIP.Some of you are classy.
What's goes around comes around. :dunno:
Apparently you have no clue what the P stands for.
Post by: Tbar on November 29, 2016, 09:27:45 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 29, 2016, 09:29:05 PM
Post by: bradleyr001 on November 29, 2016, 09:32:15 PM
QuoteApply pressure to the state legislature to make our laws as good as the Native's in terms of seasons, bag limits etc.. Does no good to whine about it online.
You've got to be kidding. So you think we should pressure the state to give us a year around season with absolutely no limit to how many deer or elk each person can kill per year?
And as to the whining about it online, it actually does do some good, because it's due to all the "whining" over the last several years on this site that I've been made aware of how bad the problem really is.
Many of the Yakama tribal members kill trophy size deer and elk for no reason other than to sell the heads. And again, they can kill as many as they want, and there is no season. If we all could do that, there would be no deer or elk left in the state.
I don't disagree with some indian rights, but this isn't 1875. If the game isn't managed in the best interests of everyone, there won't be any to manage at some point. The term "subsistence" for 95% of the indians, especially those that live in the lower 48, do NOT subsistence hunt and are just as modernized as anyone else relying on microwave ovens instead of grinding maze with a stone. It is long past time to regulate every hunter regardless of race, color, creed, religion or any other term of that nature to a single set of rules and regulations applicable to everyone that hunts, with state specific rules and regs. Regardless of the subsistence issue, the year is currently 2016, what happened 100+ years ago was not perpetrated by anyone alive today, nor are there any victims alive today. Ancestry is not victimhood. Some may say this is unfair to the indians in light of what they suffered through. I did NOT say they didn't suffer, just that no one alive today was on either side of the suffering. How long is the egregious inequity and inequality going to last in regards to hunting rights? Until 2080? 2125? How about the year 2200? Let's get real, its time for a change, way past time.
Post by: bradleyr001 on November 29, 2016, 09:35:41 PM
*
If that picture of the truck load of elk doesn't stir anger and emotion about a blatant violation of human decency along with the willful and wanton waste of precious game resources and the rights of hunters everywhere, YOU are part of the problem.
Post by: jmscon on November 29, 2016, 09:44:43 PM
*
If that picture of the truck load of elk doesn't stir anger and emotion about a blatant violation of human decency along with the willful and wanton waste of precious game resources and the rights of hunters everywhere, YOU are part of the problem.
He was stopped and fined, just for the record. He wasn't doing it legally by tribes or white mans laws.
Post by: jmscon on November 29, 2016, 10:34:37 PM
China invades the U.S., reduces our army to dust. All the survivors sign treaties to live on abysmal lands so that they won't get reduced to dust. You are forced to learn Mandarin, no longer speak English and abide by Buddhist or Taoist religions. You can't wear your traditional clothing either. You are given a few bones though, you can hunt and fish.
Fast forward 150 years, you are now 0.9% of the population. The New China Republic as been trying to take away the bones it has given again and again but there has been enough resistance from the original colonists and sympathizers in the New Republic that you barely have a grasp of what was once the livelihood of your ancestors. One of the few things that you have left to your identity is one of the bones that was given to your people generations ago. And the some of the people in the New Republic still wants to take it away because of a few bad apples.
It's hard for a non tribal member to know what its like to have the stigma like that or have our rights threatened like that. Most people don't know what it is like on the other end.
You want to see someone who didn't want to loose their rights to the white man? Watch footage of Billy Frank Jr. fight tooth and nail, get beat down only to stand back up and fight another day.
The same argument can be said about the second amendment, the guns of today weren't even in the wildest dreams of our founding fathers "so we should change that too." WTF
There are so many factors that could cause the decline of animals in a particular GMU. But if the rumor gets out that someone saw this or that or talked to someone who knew that this had happened and this is who to blame. GET THE POSSE TOGETHER!
Post by: bradleyr001 on November 29, 2016, 11:01:46 PM
Appreciate the info on the picture.
Post by: Reidus on November 29, 2016, 11:12:48 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 30, 2016, 05:40:32 AM
Post by: Timberstalker on November 30, 2016, 05:44:49 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 30, 2016, 05:56:29 AM
Trophyhunt, can you stick ur nose up plats butt any further? Lollol, I know right! I have respect for what plat does behind the scenes. But I'm pretty sure he knows how I feel about tribal hunting rights, I'm trying to stay away from the my usual rants on the issue, for the first time in my life! Besides, maybe I can get him to take me trophy elk hunting in September next year!!
:chuckle:
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 30, 2016, 06:33:38 AM
Why you laughing it could happen, all you have to do is ask PlatTrophyhunt, can you stick ur nose up plats butt any further? Lollol, I know right! I have respect for what plat does behind the scenes. But I'm pretty sure he knows how I feel about tribal hunting rights, I'm trying to stay away from the my usual rants on the issue, for the first time in my life! Besides, maybe I can get him to take me trophy elk hunting in September next year!!
:chuckle:
Post by: Jpmiller on November 30, 2016, 06:44:15 AM
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 30, 2016, 06:54:23 AM
What concession would you be willing to give native tribes in return for forfeiture of their hunting rights?
At what point does resource management become more important. Serious question BTW.
Post by: trophyhunt on November 30, 2016, 06:57:43 AM
:yike:Why you laughing it could happen, all you have to do is ask PlatTrophyhunt, can you stick ur nose up plats butt any further? Lollol, I know right! I have respect for what plat does behind the scenes. But I'm pretty sure he knows how I feel about tribal hunting rights, I'm trying to stay away from the my usual rants on the issue, for the first time in my life! Besides, maybe I can get him to take me trophy elk hunting in September next year!!
:chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 07:22:40 AM
Why you laughing it could happen, all you have to do is ask PlatTrophyhunt, can you stick ur nose up plats butt any further? Lollol, I know right! I have respect for what plat does behind the scenes. But I'm pretty sure he knows how I feel about tribal hunting rights, I'm trying to stay away from the my usual rants on the issue, for the first time in my life! Besides, maybe I can get him to take me trophy elk hunting in September next year!!
:chuckle:
Hey, I'm not cheap! It cost a lot to look this good. :chuckle: I only charge a six pack of pepshi and sheeds. And 1000 finder fee. :tup:
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 07:43:25 AM
What concession would you be willing to give native tribes in return for forfeiture of their hunting rights?
At what point does resource management become more important. Serious question BTW.
Here's a serious answer. At what point does the government stop asking for more and more rights to be forfeited, given up? Hunting is just one part so if we give one up do they stop there or keep asking?
Would you give up any of your rights knowing it could lead to more or eventually all? Would you give up free speech? The right to bear arms? Assemble?
The solution is a long and difficult one. I've explained previously what it would take and that's really the only option. I'm not trying to come off as defiant or negative on this issue just truthfully.
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 30, 2016, 07:54:59 AM
What concession would you be willing to give native tribes in return for forfeiture of their hunting rights?It would cost the entire ceded area back
Post by: trapp01 on November 30, 2016, 07:56:56 AM
What concession would you be willing to give native tribes in return for forfeiture of their hunting rights?
The freedoms and rights of the US and protections that big brother Uncle Sam provides. Wait they already have them.
How about a big thank you for the Louisiana purchase or the Native Americans would be speaking Spanish or extinct. I don't believe the Spanish would've been so understanding of thier rights and treaties.
The United States had to fight France, Spain, and Natives to acquire this land and make the United States what it is today. Hell we even had a dispute between the British to get the Oregon territory.
Generally when you lose a war the conquering country doesn't give you any rights (abide or die).
Post by: JLS on November 30, 2016, 08:00:35 AM
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Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 08:10:18 AM
This is a great response.What concession would you be willing to give native tribes in return for forfeiture of their hunting rights?
At what point does resource management become more important. Serious question BTW.
Here's a serious answer. At what point does the government stop asking for more and more rights to be forfeited, given up? Hunting is just one part so if we give one up do they stop there or keep asking?
Would you give up any of your rights knowing it could lead to more or eventually all? Would you give up free speech? The right to bear arms? Assemble?
The solution is a long and difficult one. I've explained previously what it would take and that's really the only option. I'm not trying to come off as defiant or negative on this issue just truthfully.
Nobody wants to give an inch on gun rights for this very same reason. Give an inch and the next thing you know they are taking a mile.
If resource management is so important start with what you can control, non native overharvest. It happens every year. Six elk in one day in the colockum just a few weeks ago. 3 bulls and a cow in Oregon just showed up in another thread.
How about predator management? There are other factors making an impact on resource management that are within our control.
Rather than :bash: about something that is so difficult to change work on what is enforceable.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 08:12:40 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on November 30, 2016, 08:18:29 AM
What concession would you be willing to give native tribes in return for forfeiture of their hunting rights?
At what point does resource management become more important. Serious question BTW.
Here's a serious answer. At what point does the government stop asking for more and more rights to be forfeited, given up? Hunting is just one part so if we give one up do they stop there or keep asking?
Would you give up any of your rights knowing it could lead to more or eventually all? Would you give up free speech? The right to bear arms? Assemble?
The solution is a long and difficult one. I've explained previously what it would take and that's really the only option. I'm not trying to come off as defiant or negative on this issue just truthfully.
I am relatively new to the site Plat, what did you suggest before as a solution?
Really the only realistic thing i can see changing is for laws and rules adopted by tribes. I don't want anyone to have rights taken from them. I know if I qualified for tribal hunting I would most assuredly fight tooth and nail to keep it.
Post by: trapp01 on November 30, 2016, 08:21:16 AM
Trapps onto something, somebody tell Tibet stop fighting, you belong to China. Iraqis', give it up, ISIS is here to stay. S. Korea, enough okay. Resistance is futile, conform or die.
Wow completely off. Extremist much?
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 08:28:26 AM
There are a couple of natives that shoot multiple big bulls and multiple big bucks on winter range each year.
Do you really think that making a law saying they can't do that is going to stop them?
Did it stop Bonepart in "Operation Cody" from poaching? Once caught did he get the full wrath of the court system?
No. Start punishing the people that are abusing the resource that you can punish. Once you get that under control then move on to trying to get the abuse to stop by certain tribal members.
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2016, 08:35:38 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 08:45:33 AM
No one is asking for you to give up your guns, they just want you to register them all so they know who has how many guns.
Both are rights that neither side wants to give an inch for fear that it will turn into 10 inches and then a mile.
Post by: sagerat on November 30, 2016, 08:56:39 AM
I don't think anyone is advocating for the Yakama's to give up their right to hunt, they just want it restricted to the same rules as everyone else.
No one is asking for you to give up your guns, they just want you to register them all so they know who has how many guns.
Both are rights that neither side wants to give an inch for fear that it will turn into 10 inches and then a mile.
We can all own guns. We can't all hunt the winter range whenever we want. You can't compare the two.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 09:06:54 AM
We can all own guns because that is a right we are given in the constitution. Natives can hunt winter range because that is the right they were given in the treaty.I don't think anyone is advocating for the Yakama's to give up their right to hunt, they just want it restricted to the same rules as everyone else.
No one is asking for you to give up your guns, they just want you to register them all so they know who has how many guns.
Both are rights that neither side wants to give an inch for fear that it will turn into 10 inches and then a mile.
We can all own guns. We can't all hunt the winter range whenever we want. You can't compare the two.
How is it different for us to not budge on our right to firearms but expect the natives to budge on their right to hunt?
If you had the right to hunt winter range or even if hunting was a right given to you in the constitution you would fight tooth and nail to keep that right.
Hunting for non natives is a privilege, like a drivers license, it can be taken away. Hunting for natives is a right.
Post by: trophyhunt on November 30, 2016, 09:29:01 AM
I don't think anyone would ever expect the Yakama tribe to give up their right to hunt. But there's no reason why they can't be expected to have some kind of limit to how many animals a person can take per year. They also should be required to limit their harvest in those areas such as the Desert GMU where we have no general season. It defeats the purpose of us having certain units as permit only hunts if the Yakamas can go in there and take out as many as they want. Seriously, one tribal member could legally kill 100 bucks in the Desert unit in one year. How is that right? How is it that the WDFW can require the Yakama tribe to limit their harvest of bighorn sheep and mountain goats but not deer and elk?exactly, and we need stiffer penalties to those who are caught, and a change of attitude from the native elders, the few natives that do over harvest need punished by the tribes.
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 09:31:49 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 09:38:53 AM
On a positive note it's 274 days until September 1st.There's a multi season draw before that and a permit draw also that we can complain about until then.
DNRY
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2016, 09:44:38 AM
I don't think anyone would ever expect the Yakama tribe to give up their right to hunt. But there's no reason why they can't be expected to have some kind of limit to how many animals a person can take per year. They also should be required to limit their harvest in those areas such as the Desert GMU where we have no general season. It defeats the purpose of us having certain units as permit only hunts if the Yakamas can go in there and take out as many as they want. Seriously, one tribal member could legally kill 100 bucks in the Desert unit in one year. How is that right? How is it that the WDFW can require the Yakama tribe to limit their harvest of bighorn sheep and mountain goats but not deer and elk?exactly, and we need stiffer penalties to those who are caught, and a change of attitude from the native elders, the few natives that do over harvest need punished by the tribes.
There's no such thing as over harvesting by a Yakama, since they have absolutely no limits and no seasons. So there can't be punishment for something that is 100% legal. And that's the problem.
Post by: Badhabit on November 30, 2016, 09:44:51 AM
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 10:10:38 AM
Is the answer then to make all units for all game general seasons?And everyone would complain about that too.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 10:19:18 AM
:chuckle:Is the answer then to make all units for all game general seasons?And everyone would complain about that too.
Post by: trophyhunt on November 30, 2016, 10:27:39 AM
Is the answer then to make all units for all game general seasons?maybe? What would happen if we open up all units, except watersheds, and go back to when you could hunt all three weapons without a permit.? What would happen if the hunting was so bad in this state from complete over harvest? Say even the natives were affected, like when the buffalo were brought to the brink of extinction here. Would that force a round table meeting of the tribes and state, would it force changes? Yes I know it's a cut off your nose dispite your face thought, and it will never happen because the Wdfw wants its money, but what if?
Post by: OutHouse on November 30, 2016, 10:53:28 AM
QuoteApply pressure to the state legislature to make our laws as good as the Native's in terms of seasons, bag limits etc.. Does no good to whine about it online.
You've got to be kidding. So you think we should pressure the state to give us a year around season with absolutely no limit to how many deer or elk each person can kill per year?
And as to the whining about it online, it actually does do some good, because it's due to all the "whining" over the last several years on this site that I've been made aware of how bad the problem really is.
Many of the Yakama tribal members kill trophy size deer and elk for no reason other than to sell the heads. And again, they can kill as many as they want, and there is no season. If we all could do that, there would be no deer or elk left in the state.
Nope not kidding. That is the remedy whether anyone chooses to pursue it or not. By the way please shoot us some links about this alleged shooting of trophies just to sell the heads. I am seriously interested to look into that, but as your comment stands now its just an anecdote. Anecdotes are pretty useless when you are trying to make a factual point.
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 30, 2016, 10:58:37 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on November 30, 2016, 11:04:00 AM
You should read "operation Cody", that will give you enough facts!QuoteApply pressure to the state legislature to make our laws as good as the Native's in terms of seasons, bag limits etc.. Does no good to whine about it online.
You've got to be kidding. So you think we should pressure the state to give us a year around season with absolutely no limit to how many deer or elk each person can kill per year?
And as to the whining about it online, it actually does do some good, because it's due to all the "whining" over the last several years on this site that I've been made aware of how bad the problem really is.
Many of the Yakama tribal members kill trophy size deer and elk for no reason other than to sell the heads. And again, they can kill as many as they want, and there is no season. If we all could do that, there would be no deer or elk left in the state.
Nope not kidding. That is the remedy whether anyone chooses to pursue it or not. By the way please shoot us some links about this alleged shooting of trophies just to sell the heads. I am seriously interested to look into that, but as your comment stands now its just an anecdote. Anecdotes are pretty useless when you are trying to make a factual point.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 11:11:49 AM
Sadly, it will probably never happen.
Post by: Woodchuck on November 30, 2016, 11:21:35 AM
One man had been on to something and he was putting an effort forward. He's concept was sound and was scientifically based. Putting that concept into play would've provided information worth it's weight in gold.Can I ask why?
Sadly, it will probably never happen.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 11:26:35 AM
One man had been on to something and he was putting an effort forward. He's concept was sound and was scientifically based. Putting that concept into play would've provided information worth it's weight in gold.Can I ask why?
Sadly, it will probably never happen.
Look below my avatar and you'll know why.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 11:28:54 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
:yeah:One man had been on to something and he was putting an effort forward. He's concept was sound and was scientifically based. Putting that concept into play would've provided information worth it's weight in gold.Can I ask why?
Sadly, it will probably never happen.
I remember the push a couple of years back to gather evidence of abuse and overharvest. I think it went behind the scenes but I never heard what happened. Is that what you are talking about?
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 11:32:25 AM
:yeah:One man had been on to something and he was putting an effort forward. He's concept was sound and was scientifically based. Putting that concept into play would've provided information worth it's weight in gold.Can I ask why?
Sadly, it will probably never happen.
I remember the push a couple of years back to gather evidence of abuse and overharvest. I think it went behind the scenes but I never heard what happened. Is that what you are talking about?
He's talking about Aaron Blanchard.
Post by: Woodchuck on November 30, 2016, 11:35:57 AM
I was thinking that may have been it, RIP.:yeah:One man had been on to something and he was putting an effort forward. He's concept was sound and was scientifically based. Putting that concept into play would've provided information worth it's weight in gold.Can I ask why?
Sadly, it will probably never happen.
I remember the push a couple of years back to gather evidence of abuse and overharvest. I think it went behind the scenes but I never heard what happened. Is that what you are talking about?
He's talking about Aaron Blanchard.
Post by: runamuk on November 30, 2016, 11:40:26 AM
One man had been on to something and he was putting an effort forward. He's concept was sound and was scientifically based. Putting that concept into play would've provided information worth it's weight in gold.Yeah he died. I lost all my information he shared outside huntwa 2 computers ago. The man had some potentially workable ideas, but it was his ability to present those ideas that cannot be duplicated.
Sadly, it will probably never happen.
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2016, 11:43:21 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 30, 2016, 11:51:11 AM
I'd be willing to bet that if people stopped buying capes and heads from the tribal hunters, the harvest of the big bulls and bucks would decrease. Enablers enabling....Doubt it
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 12:08:21 PM
I'd be willing to bet that if people stopped buying capes and heads from the tribal hunters, the harvest of the big bulls and bucks would decrease. Enablers enabling....Doubt it
That's not the issue. Most I know don't sell heads or capes. Not saying a very few don't but majority don't.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 12:12:14 PM
I'd be willing to bet that if people stopped buying capes and heads from the tribal hunters, the harvest of the big bulls and bucks would decrease. Enablers enabling....Doubt it
That's not the issue. Most I know don't sell heads or capes. Not saying a very few don't but majority don't.
It definitely happens. Don't know how often, or maybe it's 1 or a couple guys or whatever...but it definitely happens. The point is, even if it's only 1 guy that shoots multiple bulls and sells the antlers, it's a BS reason and it shouldn't be happening in the first place.
Post by: fish vacuum on November 30, 2016, 12:16:16 PM
Let's put this in another perspective.
China invades the U.S., reduces our army to dust. All the survivors sign treaties to live on abysmal lands so that they won't get reduced to dust. You are forced to learn Mandarin, no longer speak English and abide by Buddhist or Taoist religions. You can't wear your traditional clothing either. You are given a few bones though, you can hunt and fish.
Fast forward 150 years, you are now 0.9% of the population. The New China Republic as been trying to take away the bones it has given again and again but there has been enough resistance from the original colonists and sympathizers in the New Republic that you barely have a grasp of what was once the livelihood of your ancestors. One of the few things that you have left to your identity is one of the bones that was given to your people generations ago.
After 150 years most of your ancestors would be chinese. Much like many tribal members today who have more European blood than anything else.
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 30, 2016, 12:26:38 PM
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 30, 2016, 12:36:44 PM
Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.It is one of our rights, we can hunt off the Reservation, Im not condoning go kill everythingn or trophies
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
Post by: DaveMonti on November 30, 2016, 12:39:26 PM
Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
I think it has to do with what are traditional hunting grounds.
Post by: Timberstalker on November 30, 2016, 12:47:01 PM
Very little tribal pressure during the 2.5 years that I was there 3 - 5 days a week.
Post by: Odell on November 30, 2016, 12:49:35 PM
I'd be willing to bet that if people stopped buying capes and heads from the tribal hunters, the harvest of the big bulls and bucks would decrease. Enablers enabling....
This is the only feasible solution. It needs to become illegal to purchase antlers and heads, taxidermy, sheds, etc. It is already illegal with migratory birds.
The tribes for the most part don't care about the resource. They care about themselves. We have to cut off the money incentive.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 01:11:10 PM
Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.It is one of our rights, we can hunt off the Reservation, Im not condoning go kill everythingn or trophies
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
How much hunting goes on on the reservation? Like, a lot or a little? Equal amount as off-reservation hunting?
Post by: trophyhunt on November 30, 2016, 01:13:49 PM
Serious question, do you guys hunt much on your reservation? I would think your Rez could be as good of quality as the colville's Rez.Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.It is one of our rights, we can hunt off the Reservation, Im not condoning go kill everythingn or trophies
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
Post by: fishngamereaper on November 30, 2016, 01:33:35 PM
Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.It is one of our rights, we can hunt off the Reservation, Im not condoning go kill everythingn or trophies
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
I understand its your right. But does that make it necessary. Again I'm trying to find common ground for responsible management of the resources. Unfortunately I'm on the wetside so I'm not likley to witness tribal harvest issues with mule deer and elk, but the waste and disregard for fish/ game management is just as bad over here. Case in point the coho salmon season that wasn't, but then all the sudden was. Which was taken advantage of by the tribe's, and all the sporties got the big oops, sorry about that middle finger.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 01:37:46 PM
Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.It is one of our rights, we can hunt off the Reservation, Im not condoning go kill everythingn or trophies
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
How much hunting goes on on the reservation? Like, a lot or a little? Equal amount as off-reservation hunting?
Serious question, do you guys hunt much on your reservation? I would think your Rez could be as good of quality as the colville's Rez.Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.It is one of our rights, we can hunt off the Reservation, Im not condoning go kill everythingn or trophies
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
@PlateauNDN
@Time Immemorial 1855
Can you share some legit answers to this question?
Post by: huntnfmly on November 30, 2016, 01:48:51 PM
It's one of our rights he said
But to me I'm afraid it's a because we can attitude
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 02:07:21 PM
I'm afraid time just answered
It's one of our rights he said
But to me I'm afraid it's a because we can attitude
If you're referring to my question, trophyhunt and I were wondering how much hunting is done on the reservation. I was hoping for a legit answer and not some sort of wisecrack.
Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.
Post by: JJB11B on November 30, 2016, 02:09:02 PM
Josh, I disagree with you a lot on this forum, this is not one of those times.I'm afraid time just answered
It's one of our rights he said
But to me I'm afraid it's a because we can attitude
If you're referring to my question, trophyhunt and I were wondering how much hunting is done on the reservation. I was hoping for a legit answer and not some sort of wisecrack.
Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 02:10:10 PM
Josh, I disagree with you a lot on this forum, this is not one of those times.I'm afraid time just answered
It's one of our rights he said
But to me I'm afraid it's a because we can attitude
If you're referring to my question, trophyhunt and I were wondering how much hunting is done on the reservation. I was hoping for a legit answer and not some sort of wisecrack.
Otherwise I agree with what you're saying.
Thank you I think?
Post by: huntnfmly on November 30, 2016, 02:11:15 PM
You must not have seen were he said it's one of our rights.
He's telling you right there a lot of them have that attitude. It wasn't a wisecrack
Post by: huntnfmly on November 30, 2016, 02:14:13 PM
My bad.
I too would like to see a legit answer
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 02:33:09 PM
So, within my family we gathered, fished and hunted over large areas and I'm continuing that with my children. There are areas that I had not hunted or gathered and I'm always looking for new areas for many reasons. The food in one area may reach ripeness sooner or later then one area, food may be ready to gather at different times so I follow the food. Hunting, I spread myself over areas I was shown by family and then explore and learn new areas all the time as I don't want to have a large or adverse impact on game in that area.
The mentality I have is its all within our boundaries and It's traditional/ancestral grounds then I will go there. If we do not exercise our rights within our traditional/ancestral lands what's to stop the State or Gov't from taking it away or saying you didn't go there anymore or utilize it anymore therefore you lose any rights to it, such as imminent domain.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 02:39:10 PM
Ok, it's break time. There are a lot of tribal members that strictly hunt the rez and a big portion of my family does. If you look at a map of our ceded lands that will give you an idea of the territory at which we lived, hunted, fished and gathered other traditional foods/medicines. I say idea because our U & A territories extend beyond that.
So, within my family we gathered, fished and hunted over large areas and I'm continuing that with my children. There are areas that I had not hunted or gathered and I'm always looking for new areas for many reasons. The food in one area may reach ripeness sooner or later then one area, food may be ready to gather at different times so I follow the food. Hunting, I spread myself over areas I was shown by family and then explore and learn new areas all the time as I don't want to have a large or adverse impact on game in that area.
The mentality I have is its all within our boundaries and It's traditional/ancestral grounds then I will go there. If we do not exercise our rights within our traditional/ancestral lands what's to stop the State or Gov't from taking it away or saying you didn't go there anymore or utilize it anymore therefore you lose any rights to it, such as imminent domain.
Thanks for the response. I was specifically referring to the areas on the reservation where I, for example, can't hunt as a white guy. Is there a lot of deer and elk hunting that goes on there by tribal members?
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 02:45:51 PM
Any idea of numbers? 200 hunt the rez and 20 hunt off reservation but on ceded lands?
I do appreciate your responses so far, just trying to quantify it a bit more. If you can't I understand.
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 02:54:51 PM
I met an in-law for the 1st time while hunting a new area a couple years ago. I would say half my family is rez hunting only the other half are both, on and off.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 30, 2016, 03:03:31 PM
I answered that jackelope, yes there's deer and elk there and yes tribal members hunt there. I don't know numbers or stats for over 10,000 members when it comes to who does or doesn't hunt on or off the rez.Thanks as always I really appreciate the dialogue.
I met an in-law for the 1st time while hunting a new area a couple years ago. I would say half my family is rez hunting only the other half are both, on and off.
Post by: bradleyr001 on November 30, 2016, 03:12:06 PM
Again serious question. The rez is roughly 1.2 million acres in size. Is there no game to be had, is the quality poor, has it been over hunted. Why is there the need to hunt off the rez in quality areas. If its just sustenance hunting why go to the permit only areas. Or is it truly about trophy hunting and not about putting food on the table. Is it an attitude that I can do it so I will do it and no me can stop me.It is one of our rights, we can hunt off the Reservation, Im not condoning go kill everythingn or trophies
I'm not proposing to take away rights, I'm just trying to find the common sense approach to hunting area's that, in general are once in a lifetime hunts for the general white man.
You're missing the point... not saying it's not your right... But if things don't change, keep destroying the resource (or standing by and letting others destroy it) you won't have any resources to worry about. The piece of paper your 'right' is printed on will become worthless toilet paper to wipe your butt with. The subject of the 'right' will be destroyed or no longer viable, and thus meaningless. So Indians better get smart and stop feeling like this is an attack on a personal level, it isn't, everyone benefits or fails based on BOTH sides of this equation.
This problem is an absolute issue between Native hunting rights and everyone else's hunting rights, if something isn't done, it won't matter to either side. We will all just watch reruns of hunting videos on youtube because there won't be any animals to harvest.
Keep sticking to your absolute right and it will become worthless. Management doesn't happen overnight, especially with so many different opinions and points of view, material changes will take years even if started now, this is a long term goal, 10, 15, 20 years from now as a timeline at the earliest if change is started now.
Everyone is going to have to make concessions, even the Indians, or we will just continue "arguing" about what could've been done instead starting work on getting it done.
A few have mentioned taking care of the issues already known; poachers, habitat loss, etc., how has that worked out so far?
Time for a paradigm shift on how to attack this problem.
Post by: Chesapeake on November 30, 2016, 03:21:57 PM
The mentality I have is its all within our boundaries and It's traditional/ancestral grounds then I will go there. If we do not exercise our rights within our traditional/ancestral lands what's to stop the State or Gov't from taking it away or saying you didn't go there anymore or utilize it anymore therefore you lose any rights to it, such as imminent domain.
This statement echo's my opinion of what's been going on the last several years. There are dip net stands popping up everywhere, many never actually used. Gill net buoys dotting the river just outside the channel, many never seem to have a net. Laying claim to Glenwood, ect....
It seems the Natives have prescribed to the "use it or loose it" mantra and are making a bold attempt to make it appear they are "exercising" everything they believe they have a "right" to.
It seems its a bit of a shock to the general population because we aren't used to the Natives "exercising" their rights in such a wide spread and visible manner. For as long as I can remember they've been pretty low key. Just a few trashed out boat ramps and encampments along the rivers, only a few Styrofoam blocks anchored along the channels, dip net stands only in key locations and the annual Methow winter range deer road hunt complaints.
Post by: DaveMonti on November 30, 2016, 03:45:21 PM
Everyone states that problems need fixing, the treaties, the natives policing their own, the importance of wildlife vs. shellfish with the WDFW, penalties are not strong enough, the wolves, cougars, bobcats, coyotes, liberals wanting to shut down our public lands, on and on and on. These problems will never be "fixed" unless everyone understands what impact these problems are creating today. In other words, in the big picture, what is the problem???
So, start with the set of undesirable conditions that these "problems" are causing. What is the big problem? The answer is not "Natives hunt and kill a lot of animals". If you want to look at it from the other direction, "What does something look like AFTER a solution is implemented?" And the answer there is not "Natives must follow all the rules like everyone else".
The answer is "What are you really pissed about?" My guess is that it's not easy enough for you (and every other hunter) to go out and kill a tasty trophy every time you want to.
There are MANY reasons for this, so get to work formulating the reasons. Predators might be one. The Natives enforcement policies might be another. WDFW management strategies might be another. Poachers might be another. Develop a list of problems that are causing this "undesirable situation" that is making everyone complain. This is the beginning of the development of a STRATEGY. Impact analysis tells you what "problems" have the biggest impact on your desired outcome.
Please remember that in the big picture, what something looks like AFTER the solutions are implemented to remedy the "problems" everyone has identified, it will NOT BE POSSIBLE for everyone to go out and kill a tasty trophy whenever they want. So, BE REASONABLE and REALISTIC in what you would like to see AFTER the solutions to the problems you identified are implemented.
Now, from experience, and I've been doign this for over 30 years, people are way too small minded to understand a "big picture" or "top down" approach. Most are much more comfortable finding on and clinging to an emotional argument, one that they can yell and complain about, because face it, the big picture approach is HARD and takes a LOT OF WORK. However, by making all Natives follow the same rules as the general public, YOUR FUTURE VISION of hunting in WA will NOT HAPPEN! Why? Because there are poachers, and there are predators, and there are hard winters that kill a lot of game, and there are BS policies that the WDFW implements, and of course, there isn't enough MONEY to fix all the problems you identify.
So, to those who, like bradley, claim a paradigm shift is needed to solve the "problem" of the treaties, I say you need a bigger paradigm shift and start not with a problem, but with a vision of what you would like to see in the future. THEN go out and find what is preventing that vision, and THEN understand the IMPACT of each thing that is preventing that vision, prioritize, and start knocking those things off. Be prepared for a long, hard implementation of the solutions, be prepared to PAY to realize your vision, and go out and get it done instead of pointing out random things that "need to be fixed".
Now, small minded people that lack the mental capacity to understand what I just said, hold forth with your wisdom of what the real problem is.
Dave
Post by: OutHouse on November 30, 2016, 03:54:13 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 03:59:16 PM
Post by: DaveMonti on November 30, 2016, 04:17:18 PM
Post by: Odell on November 30, 2016, 04:27:51 PM
I kind of hate to weigh in here, but throughout my career, I've been faced with "problems" continuously that needed to be fixed. The one thing I learned early on, and it has made me an effective problem solver, is to understand the goal of any solution. To do that, one needs to understand what the PROBLEM is.
Everyone states that problems need fixing, the treaties, the natives policing their own, the importance of wildlife vs. shellfish with the WDFW, penalties are not strong enough, the wolves, cougars, bobcats, coyotes, liberals wanting to shut down our public lands, on and on and on. These problems will never be "fixed" unless everyone understands what impact these problems are creating today. In other words, in the big picture, what is the problem???
So, start with the set of undesirable conditions that these "problems" are causing. What is the big problem? The answer is not "Natives hunt and kill a lot of animals". If you want to look at it from the other direction, "What does something look like AFTER a solution is implemented?" And the answer there is not "Natives must follow all the rules like everyone else".
The answer is "What are you really pissed about?" My guess is that it's not easy enough for you (and every other hunter) to go out and kill a tasty trophy every time you want to.
There are MANY reasons for this, so get to work formulating the reasons. Predators might be one. The Natives enforcement policies might be another. WDFW management strategies might be another. Poachers might be another. Develop a list of problems that are causing this "undesirable situation" that is making everyone complain. This is the beginning of the development of a STRATEGY. Impact analysis tells you what "problems" have the biggest impact on your desired outcome.
Please remember that in the big picture, what something looks like AFTER the solutions are implemented to remedy the "problems" everyone has identified, it will NOT BE POSSIBLE for everyone to go out and kill a tasty trophy whenever they want. So, BE REASONABLE and REALISTIC in what you would like to see AFTER the solutions to the problems you identified are implemented.
Now, from experience, and I've been doign this for over 30 years, people are way too small minded to understand a "big picture" or "top down" approach. Most are much more comfortable finding on and clinging to an emotional argument, one that they can yell and complain about, because face it, the big picture approach is HARD and takes a LOT OF WORK. However, by making all Natives follow the same rules as the general public, YOUR FUTURE VISION of hunting in WA will NOT HAPPEN! Why? Because there are poachers, and there are predators, and there are hard winters that kill a lot of game, and there are BS policies that the WDFW implements, and of course, there isn't enough MONEY to fix all the problems you identify.
So, to those who, like bradley, claim a paradigm shift is needed to solve the "problem" of the treaties, I say you need a bigger paradigm shift and start not with a problem, but with a vision of what you would like to see in the future. THEN go out and find what is preventing that vision, and THEN understand the IMPACT of each thing that is preventing that vision, prioritize, and start knocking those things off. Be prepared for a long, hard implementation of the solutions, be prepared to PAY to realize your vision, and go out and get it done instead of pointing out random things that "need to be fixed".
Now, small minded people that lack the mental capacity to understand what I just said, hold forth with your wisdom of what the real problem is.
Dave
In all your years as a great problem solver did you find it effective to assume your perspective was the truth and call anyone who disagreed with you "small minded", and "lacking mental capacity"?
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2016, 04:29:05 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2016, 04:31:04 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 04:31:28 PM
I was hoping that something other than a bunch of hostility came out of the thread that the OP started with the intent of creating chaos. That "something" might be as little as a "better understanding" of what is causing such unhappiness among posters. Sorry if I ruined the thread for you Plat.
My apologies dave, I posted my comment as a joke as for me I'm glad that some understand the complexities of the situation. Your comment is one of the best that I've seen in awhile for a non-tribal perspective and only one other person presented that type of scenario and he's no longer here. :tup: keep up the logic and glad to see it.
Post by: huntnfmly on November 30, 2016, 04:34:40 PM
I know you're going to say you didn't use the word idiot but that's what you meant wow
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 04:35:17 PM
Post by: Odell on November 30, 2016, 04:35:52 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 30, 2016, 04:37:50 PM
There are not "numerous problems," at least not ones that are a subject of this thread. The problem is that the Yakama tribe and the WDFW do not work together in managing deer and elk. It makes no sense to have the Desert GMU with a very small number of permits each year for hunting mule deer for non tribal members, while the Yakama tribe allows their people to kill as many mule deer as they want out of the same unit. This applies to the Alkali GMU as well. That is the problem and that's what this thread is about. It's not about emotion and there's no lack of logic in what's being discussed.And it isn't just not working together with Yakamas and mule deer. A few other tribes that WDFW just doesn't seem willing to want to upset. It could be about oh...not having a saltwater salmon season in most of 2016 while gill nets are full of fish to be sold in parking lots or on craig's list, or river boundary disputes that now exclude state fishermen yet WDFW has a hatchery on that river, or elk herds or crabbing, etc.....
Post by: huntnfmly on November 30, 2016, 04:38:57 PM
essentially he called anyone who disagrees with him retarded.yes but I was being nice by not saying retarded.but you are correct
Post by: Jpmiller on November 30, 2016, 04:40:38 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial 1855 on November 30, 2016, 04:41:55 PM
Post by: bobcat on November 30, 2016, 04:43:04 PM
The difference is that my ancestors hunted,fished and gathered in all these places and your did not
So we should kill all the deer until there's none left?
Post by: DaveMonti on November 30, 2016, 04:45:12 PM
Yes, 30 years of problem solving have taught me that getting stuck on a "one solution" emotional issue is ineffective. That's why I'm in the top of my profession, because I can see the big picture.
Now, continue on...you've got a lot more emotional bashing to get out of your systems. Commence.
Post by: huntnfmly on November 30, 2016, 04:46:09 PM
The difference is that my ancestors hunted,fished and gathered in all these places and your did notonce again time perfect smart rear end reply
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 04:46:19 PM
He had the concept that there is many factors and here they are and here's solutions to tackle them.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 04:46:35 PM
The difference is that my ancestors hunted,fished and gathered in all these places and your did not
I'm sure that lots of folks on here have parents, grandparents and great grandparents who hunted and fished here all their lives.
:dunno:
This doesn't justify a bottomless harvest at all. Not in the least.
Post by: huntnfmly on November 30, 2016, 04:54:05 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 30, 2016, 04:55:15 PM
And to note using the ancestral angle, for some tribes many are 1/4 Indian (some are even less).The difference is that my ancestors hunted,fished and gathered in all these places and your did not
I'm sure that lots of folks on here have parents, grandparents and great grandparents who hunted and fished here all their lives.
:dunno:
This doesn't justify a bottomless harvest at all. Not in the least.
Post by: rasbo on November 30, 2016, 05:11:55 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 05:13:24 PM
C-money, thanks for providing your input as a person who sees a portion of the desert unit everyday. :tup:
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2016, 05:51:08 PM
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 06:04:50 PM
I kind of hate to weigh in here, but throughout my career, I've been faced with "problems" continuously that needed to be fixed. The one thing I learned early on, and it has made me an effective problem solver, is to understand the goal of any solution. To do that, one needs to understand what the PROBLEM is.Excellent post Dave.
Everyone states that problems need fixing, the treaties, the natives policing their own, the importance of wildlife vs. shellfish with the WDFW, penalties are not strong enough, the wolves, cougars, bobcats, coyotes, liberals wanting to shut down our public lands, on and on and on. These problems will never be "fixed" unless everyone understands what impact these problems are creating today. In other words, in the big picture, what is the problem???
So, start with the set of undesirable conditions that these "problems" are causing. What is the big problem? The answer is not "Natives hunt and kill a lot of animals". If you want to look at it from the other direction, "What does something look like AFTER a solution is implemented?" And the answer there is not "Natives must follow all the rules like everyone else".
The answer is "What are you really pissed about?" My guess is that it's not easy enough for you (and every other hunter) to go out and kill a tasty trophy every time you want to.
There are MANY reasons for this, so get to work formulating the reasons. Predators might be one. The Natives enforcement policies might be another. WDFW management strategies might be another. Poachers might be another. Develop a list of problems that are causing this "undesirable situation" that is making everyone complain. This is the beginning of the development of a STRATEGY. Impact analysis tells you what "problems" have the biggest impact on your desired outcome.
Please remember that in the big picture, what something looks like AFTER the solutions are implemented to remedy the "problems" everyone has identified, it will NOT BE POSSIBLE for everyone to go out and kill a tasty trophy whenever they want. So, BE REASONABLE and REALISTIC in what you would like to see AFTER the solutions to the problems you identified are implemented.
Now, from experience, and I've been doign this for over 30 years, people are way too small minded to understand a "big picture" or "top down" approach. Most are much more comfortable finding on and clinging to an emotional argument, one that they can yell and complain about, because face it, the big picture approach is HARD and takes a LOT OF WORK. However, by making all Natives follow the same rules as the general public, YOUR FUTURE VISION of hunting in WA will NOT HAPPEN! Why? Because there are poachers, and there are predators, and there are hard winters that kill a lot of game, and there are BS policies that the WDFW implements, and of course, there isn't enough MONEY to fix all the problems you identify.
So, to those who, like bradley, claim a paradigm shift is needed to solve the "problem" of the treaties, I say you need a bigger paradigm shift and start not with a problem, but with a vision of what you would like to see in the future. THEN go out and find what is preventing that vision, and THEN understand the IMPACT of each thing that is preventing that vision, prioritize, and start knocking those things off. Be prepared for a long, hard implementation of the solutions, be prepared to PAY to realize your vision, and go out and get it done instead of pointing out random things that "need to be fixed".
Now, small minded people that lack the mental capacity to understand what I just said, hold forth with your wisdom of what the real problem is.
Dave
As a follow up, and this is an honest question, does anybody have any valid research to prove any of the problems? Has any analysis been done in regards to trends in population? Have they then taken it a step further and found the causative effect? The Yakima elk herd is stable,correct? How has Yakama tribal harvest adversely effected overall herd numbers and harvest (overall)? How has predator management adversely affected ungulate herds and overall harvest (please stick to science based answers)? How has WDFW wildlife management adversely affected ungulate herd trends and overall numbers? Please keep in mind that we live in the 3rd smallest state in the west with the 3rd highest human population and other western states have experienced large scale ungulate declines.
Any science based answers would be appreciated These are real questions and may be in need of dedicated scientific studies, unless there are some available.
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 06:13:17 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on November 30, 2016, 06:19:12 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2016, 06:20:09 PM
As logical as that is T, it's impossible to have all the correct data when one of the main problems is there is no data being documented or collected. That's my point. How can you differentiate what the problem is if there is a piece missing.
Post by: brew on November 30, 2016, 06:25:17 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2016, 06:25:28 PM
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 06:26:27 PM
Hi guys 😎😎😎Where you been red? :fire.: :chuckle:
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 06:27:57 PM
And how long does it take your family to eat an elk?
Be honest you guys.😇
It's been awhile boys. I been around you know hunting season and all
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 06:33:31 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 30, 2016, 06:34:27 PM
Post by: sled on November 30, 2016, 06:39:09 PM
The difference is that my ancestors hunted,fished and gathered in all these places and your did notgod damn! Why did you come back!
Post by: MtnMuley on November 30, 2016, 06:39:32 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 06:39:45 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on November 30, 2016, 06:53:13 PM
Post by: JJB11B on November 30, 2016, 06:59:18 PM
The difference is that my ancestors hunted,fished and gathered in all these places and your did notactually my ancestors did as well.
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2016, 07:02:46 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 07:06:57 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 07:08:33 PM
Post by: 3nails on November 30, 2016, 07:24:09 PM
I have a question. how long does it take your family to eat a deer?Why do I feel like this is a loaded question? :chuckle: Our family subsists off of 5 a year so roughly 2 1/2 months per deer.
And how long does it take your family to eat an elk?
Be honest you guys.😇
It's been awhile boys. I been around you know hunting season and all
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 07:25:27 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on November 30, 2016, 07:43:22 PM
I am assuming that this topic is kind of like all things, most native hunters behave responsibly while a few ruin it for everyone yes? If all natives were truly going out with wanton destruction in mind we would be already experiencing the post apocalyptic wasteland I hear described with no game animals left.
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 07:47:58 PM
I am like you but that's all my family eats organic meat😉 I raised a bunch of meat eaters. We can wipe a spike out in two weeks easy. A deer about a week.
The things I hate are tthe guys on this site that prolly have there whole deer for 3 years ago talking bad about people that eat it one then one a year.
Now the trophy taking.
But before I finish. I understand why people are mad about natives hunting quality units and taking not so quality deer or more then one quality deer. Trust me I dislike them too because their in my spots 😬😬. I do believe in management of deer so the quality stays around.
I am a firm believe in heard preservation and proper management. But I won't lie if I am hunting a a monster and I meet. I would do what any of you would do in that same situation if we all had the same cards to play
Post by: MtnMuley on November 30, 2016, 07:55:23 PM
Post by: JJB11B on November 30, 2016, 07:57:34 PM
Mtnmuley 3nails thank you for ur honesty. I like those numbers but you got to bump them up a bit 😂😂😂😋 JkjkI can respect that. Do you feel the same way about fisheries?
I am like you but that's all my family eats organic meat😉 I raised a bunch of meat eaters. We can wipe a spike out in two weeks easy. A deer about a week.
The things I hate are tthe guys on this site that prolly have there whole deer for 3 years ago talking bad about people that eat it one then one a year.
Now the trophy taking.
But before I finish. I understand why people are mad about natives hunting quality units and taking not so quality deer or more then one quality deer. Trust me I dislike them too because their in my spots 😬😬. I do believe in management of deer so the quality stays around.
I am a firm believe in heard preservation and proper management. But I won't lie if I am hunting a a monster and I meet. I would do what any of you would do in that same situation if we all had the same cards to play
Post by: sled on November 30, 2016, 08:16:36 PM
I liked the original name :chuckle::bash: :chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 08:40:26 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 08:40:59 PM
I liked the original name :chuckle::bash: :chuckle:
I know, I know, I know...it wasn't politically correct. :tup:
Post by: mfswallace on November 30, 2016, 08:50:44 PM
I heard a rumor last week that up to 28 bucks were taken by members of the Yakima Nation in the Desert unit. A relative of mine spoke to his friend with the game dept and said that he would not recommend putting in for the Desert Unit anymore and that the state may make the unit a public hunt and no longer a special permit now because of the tribe starting to take so many deer from it. Has anyone else heard of this or can someone in the know please find out? His friend couldn't confirm the number of kills though.
I must be narrow minded.....that, on a hunting web forum, one cannot ask about information obtained from information gathered by a relative from a friend who works for the department who manages the game in question, without being accused of getting something started? I get it, it is sensitive. So, MLcoug, I live across the street from the Desert. The area I see every day...no, I have not seen or heard anything about bucks being taken out in any significant numbers. Road kill, yes, there have been a few destructive hood ornaments along I 90. Dang shame, cause one was a monster.
I Work in 90%(George to Moses/Frenchman to i90) of the desert unit every day. I travel ditch banks, field access rds, circle hop and any other short cut or way to get around you can think of while in this unit. My customers are the smallest farmer to the biggest. I have contacted WDFW officers to report poachers, some have been European Americans as well as Mexican American, I also know in a few instances Native Americans were involved(exercising their hunting rights but trespassing).
I know of 13 native taken bucks in the last 2months which is far from 28 but I'm sure like everyone, including Plat & Time, I don't know all bucks that are taken by natives out of this unit. I don't have pictures or license plate numbers and some knowledge comes from the land owners I work with as well as WDFW people whom I'm not gonna name but for ME it is reliable enough to write this without thinking it is exaggerated or untrue, u guys take it however you want...
I do know in the last 5 yrs this unit has gone way down in quality but more disturbing is in quantity!!! Without WDFw and Native American tribes working together to Compare and regulate harvest numbers in this unit and throughout the state, like YTC and others areas before it will be a shadow of the reason they were once considered "special or quality" :twocents:
Predator control(cats&dogs) is a constant in this unit so that isn't the issue imo
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 08:54:08 PM
Gill net fisheries are set and agreeded upon with the states and we do monitor the catch. We get to gill net the river only and non enrolled member get to gill net below
Bonnieville to the ocean. Which is for commercial purposes.
Natives also have a set commercial season as well. There is a agreed upon number between the state and tribes. Once that number is reached then the commercial season is closed.
I know people sell fish out side of season. But don't act like these people are millionaires. Trust me they are not.
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 08:56:38 PM
Post by: JJB11B on November 30, 2016, 08:57:03 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 09:00:44 PM
If these bucks were 2 point lil 3 poking would it still be a big issue? Just curious
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 09:00:52 PM
Curious to know if there is any science to the management side of Yakama tribal hunting regulations. Good, bad or indifferent. Any at all?If the herd is stable to increasing or near objectives, then I think it's fair to say that very limited regulations are not having any adverse impacts. I am open to anyone with a study to prove different.
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 09:08:54 PM
One more question.It's always an issue, especially for a select few who. If you kill a cow you are killing the factory, if it's a small buck or bull you didn't give them a chance, and on and on. Some people say the same anti tribal sentiment, the discontent will always be present, especially on here. :twocents:
If these bucks were 2 point lil 3 poking would it still be a big issue? Just curious
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 30, 2016, 09:09:20 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 30, 2016, 09:10:27 PM
tag allocations are part of wildlife management. You can do your own research if you'd like and see what the numbers have been doing.
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 09:17:17 PM
Along with the desert unit also I know the people going in there and have seen the bucks and trust me I didn't see anything impressive.
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 09:21:44 PM
Tbar...Just curious if you are talking about yakima elk, clockum elk, desert deer, alkali deer or what in particular. Mostly take a gander at the topic title.Colockum has a general season,including general cow seasons, Yakima has general seasons including cow seasons, we can take a look back at what the reasons presented to the commission as to when and the reasons given for Desert and Alkali going permit. Generally speaking most reasons have come down to loss of habitat or habitat fragmentation. We can do a little research and see if these are the reasons given when the management decisions were made of you'd like.
tag allocations are part of wildlife management. You can do your own research if you'd like and see what the numbers have been doing.
Post by: DaveMonti on November 30, 2016, 09:23:58 PM
original name of what? I missed it
I suspect he means little_red_wagon's original name, before he recently (as in hours ago) started his little_red_wagon account. But, I'm only speculating.
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 09:27:31 PM
Post by: DaveMonti on November 30, 2016, 09:31:43 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 09:37:19 PM
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 09:38:00 PM
hunting "
Taken from your state hunting prospects.
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 09:38:50 PM
I'm not wondering how you got your name, just speculating that you are known by other names here on this forum. After all, several folks knew you upon your first ever post a few hours ago!His name was taken and he was given a new name.
Post by: 3nails on November 30, 2016, 09:39:13 PM
Oh yes I think it's safe to say a lot of people know me brother 😉Wait...... Wagon Burner?
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 09:41:45 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 09:42:56 PM
Post by: Tbar on November 30, 2016, 09:45:21 PM
Tbar...Just curious if you are talking about yakima elk, clockum elk, desert deer, alkali deer or what in particular. Mostly take a gander at the topic title.This state manages to limit opportunity (managing the masses) as opposed to providing opportunity. While providing opportunity (sarcasm).
tag allocations are part of wildlife management. You can do your own research if you'd like and see what the numbers have been doing.
Post by: 3nails on November 30, 2016, 09:50:43 PM
3nails how dare you 😲😲😲:chuckle: :lol4:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on November 30, 2016, 09:56:13 PM
Was Hair Trigger right?I'm not wondering how you got your name, just speculating that you are known by other names here on this forum. After all, several folks knew you upon your first ever post a few hours ago!. I was referring to time immoral. If I remember right he was a member under a diff name until he got banned for being a tool. Then came back as present. He will Not admit to it.
Post by: sled on November 30, 2016, 09:58:14 PM
yepWas Hair Trigger right?I'm not wondering how you got your name, just speculating that you are known by other names here on this forum. After all, several folks knew you upon your first ever post a few hours ago!. I was referring to time immoral. If I remember right he was a member under a diff name until he got banned for being a tool. Then came back as present. He will Not admit to it.
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 10:03:40 PM
Post by: little_red_wagon on November 30, 2016, 10:08:41 PM
Post by: sled on November 30, 2016, 10:16:43 PM
Sled - want to feel me in ?lol, your not missing much. Maybe do a search and find his name. Time immoral, is really "Hair Trigger". He claimed to be a yakama native. I think he got banned as hair, so he came back as time.
Post by: jackelope on November 30, 2016, 10:30:30 PM