Post by: bobcat on December 03, 2016, 09:42:45 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 03, 2016, 09:54:28 PM
Post by: hollymaster on December 03, 2016, 10:08:23 PM
Post by: Tbar on December 03, 2016, 10:11:53 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 03, 2016, 10:14:29 PM
Post by: Bango skank on December 03, 2016, 10:16:57 PM
Post by: High Climber on December 03, 2016, 10:17:47 PM
Post by: np205 on December 03, 2016, 10:24:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 03, 2016, 10:31:43 PM
Looks like a fork on the top of that left side though.
They have other pictures and that side has just the eyeguard and no other points.
Post by: X-Force on December 03, 2016, 10:34:57 PM
Looks like a fork on the top of that left side though.
They have other pictures and that side has just the eyeguard and no other points.
Sweet bull to take. Good luck tomorrow
Post by: winshooter88 on December 03, 2016, 11:00:32 PM
Post by: Lefthook on December 03, 2016, 11:11:21 PM
Actually it is legal as long as the point originates less than 4 inches above the base of the antler, as per the hunting pamphlet.
I would love to see the commotion that bull would cause if someone killed it in a spike only unit then preceded to parade it around in the back of their truck, especially if there were no branched antler bull permits issued in the unit.
Post by: Bob33 on December 03, 2016, 11:12:26 PM
Looking at the photo, the elk does not appear to have a branch originating more than four inches from the skull, particularly on its right side antler. That would make it a legal spike.
Post by: jmscon on December 03, 2016, 11:13:54 PM
Post by: Lefthook on December 03, 2016, 11:23:10 PM
"Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Bull elk taken in spike-only game management units (GMUs) must have at least one antler with no branches originating more than 4 inches above where the antler attaches to the skull."
Looking at the photo, the elk does not appear to have a branch originating more than four inches from the skull, particularly on its right side antler. That would make it a legal spike.
That 4 inch measurement regulation has always seemed so iffy. I would let it walk, how accurate could a person be when trying to measure something like that, on the fly at different angles and distances. Nock that bull down and wind up being 1/2 an inch off would be a good possibility and a bad deal. Regardless, that bull is not even close to the spirit of what a spike only hunt consists of.
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 03, 2016, 11:28:41 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 03, 2016, 11:29:38 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on December 03, 2016, 11:31:44 PM
Post by: Dan-o on December 03, 2016, 11:34:32 PM
I'm just not sure....... If I knew it was 3.9999999999999999" or less, then I would dump it for the shear fun of taking a bull like that on a spike hunt.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 03, 2016, 11:41:20 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 03, 2016, 11:42:43 PM
Most of you guys should know what 4" looks like:chuckle:
That first antler fork is 6 inches from the skull. Not legal.
Post by: bowhunterforever on December 04, 2016, 12:24:10 AM
Post by: Timberstalker on December 04, 2016, 04:01:58 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 04, 2016, 05:30:02 AM
BOOM !
Post by: Smossy on December 04, 2016, 05:34:54 AM
Post by: zwickeyman on December 04, 2016, 06:32:09 AM
IMHO
Post by: benhuntin on December 04, 2016, 06:55:24 AM
I'm with Bob33. Looks to be farther than 4" from the base. No way would I take that chance. I have been in a few similar spots and have passed every time. A couple were probably legal but by passing I assured my ability to continue to hunt this stateI believe bob was referring to guys not being able to measure. I'm pretty sure he thinks it's legal.
IMHO
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: WALLEYEGUY on December 04, 2016, 07:19:03 AM
Post by: Okanagan on December 04, 2016, 07:23:03 AM
"Originates four inches from... " depends on how it is measured and how they define "originates". Is the correct legal measurement four inches from base to closest lower side of the eyeguard or is it 4 inches to the middle of the eyeguard base or does the entire base of the eyeguard have to be within 4 inches of the base? I presume the regs are talking official B&C scoring measurement rules about measuring side points off a main beam but that still leaves it fuzzy to me as to definition of where to precisely measure the "origination". A post giving the legal definition of originates would be helpful here.
I let a bull walk once that I was and am sure was legal but it was too close to bet a hunting infraction against my ability to eyeball inches. Part of my caution was being with a partner who eyeballed one wrong and killed a marginally illegal bull years ago. Once in awhile we can't be sure till we put a tape measure on the antlers. That said, if I was sure it was legal I'd love to tag a bull like this one!
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 04, 2016, 07:30:37 AM
Post by: blindluck on December 04, 2016, 07:50:22 AM
Post by: scoutdog346 on December 04, 2016, 08:23:54 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 04, 2016, 08:39:16 AM
As long as it originates under the ear enough it's good right? "True spike unit"=illegal "spike unit" legalThe ear has nothing to do with its legality.
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 08:40:54 AM
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though
I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.
With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.
My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.
Post by: Taco280AI on December 04, 2016, 09:08:53 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 04, 2016, 09:11:37 AM
Post by: vandeman17 on December 04, 2016, 09:17:21 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 04, 2016, 09:23:19 AM
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though
I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.
With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.
My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.
So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.
Post by: Bullkllr on December 04, 2016, 09:23:44 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 04, 2016, 09:28:38 AM
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 09:30:31 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 04, 2016, 09:31:25 AM
Funny some of you guys saying don't shoot wouldn't blink an eye at shooting 2x2 muley with a 3/4" eyeguard :dunno:
That's funny! :chuckle:
Post by: mountainman on December 04, 2016, 09:36:07 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 04, 2016, 09:38:49 AM
Funny some of you guys saying don't shoot wouldn't blink an eye at shooting 2x2 muley with a 3/4" eyeguard :dunno:
That's funny! :chuckle:
[/quote
:yeah: :chuckle:]
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 09:56:52 AM
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though
I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.
With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.
My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.
So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.
If it's legal, kill it.
I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.
My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.
Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.
Fire at will.
Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 04, 2016, 09:58:46 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 04, 2016, 10:06:58 AM
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though
I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.
With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.
My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.
So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.
If it's legal, kill it.
I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.
My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.
Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.
Fire at will.
Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.
So you are saying if Bobcat doesn't post pictures then he's a possible poacher?
You're kidding right?
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 10:07:18 AM
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 10:10:37 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 04, 2016, 10:11:45 AM
Even on a nice 6pt shed.....(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161204%2Fc2947cf5cfd8ef2052704fabebf8424a.jpg&hash=18270d71c0b06d804ee8b8285ad762e427b9672a)(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161204%2F9e0c7b6dae3f82ce06fbc91c427c4d6f.jpg&hash=51dde96127b14273e8297a4877966934cd815116)Thankfully, that's not the bull that Bobcat is asking about.
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 10:16:23 AM
Why? Its proving the 1st eyeguard even on a mature bull is not 4in from the baseEven on a nice 6pt shed.....(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161204%2Fc2947cf5cfd8ef2052704fabebf8424a.jpg&hash=18270d71c0b06d804ee8b8285ad762e427b9672a)(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161204%2F9e0c7b6dae3f82ce06fbc91c427c4d6f.jpg&hash=51dde96127b14273e8297a4877966934cd815116)Thankfully, that's not the bull that Bobcat is asking about.
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 10:21:10 AM
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though
I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.
With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.
My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.
So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.
If it's legal, kill it.
I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.
My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.
Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.
Fire at will.
Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.
So you are saying if Bobcat doesn't post pictures then he's a possible poacher?
You're kidding right?
Of course I'm kidding. I don't know if he even saw this bull on the hoof or posted a pic to spark a convo. Just a lame little joke.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on December 04, 2016, 10:27:15 AM
Even on a nice 6pt shed.....(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161204%2Fc2947cf5cfd8ef2052704fabebf8424a.jpg&hash=18270d71c0b06d804ee8b8285ad762e427b9672a)(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161204%2F9e0c7b6dae3f82ce06fbc91c427c4d6f.jpg&hash=51dde96127b14273e8297a4877966934cd815116)Thankfully, that's not the bull that Bobcat is asking about.
I think both browtines fit into legal zone on those.....
Post by: bobcat on December 04, 2016, 10:30:42 AM
Post by: dscubame on December 04, 2016, 10:55:54 AM
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though
I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.
With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.
My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.
So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.
If it's legal, kill it.
I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.
My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.
Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.
Fire at will.
Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.
So you are saying if Bobcat doesn't post pictures then he's a possible poacher?
You're kidding right?
:yike: :yike: :yike:
Post by: dscubame on December 04, 2016, 11:56:13 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 04, 2016, 12:02:01 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 04, 2016, 12:07:09 PM
I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense
Post by: bobcat on December 04, 2016, 12:26:29 PM
I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense
Thanks Bob33. If you don't see me online for a while you know why. :yike:
Post by: Bob33 on December 04, 2016, 12:28:00 PM
I hear there's a good defense lawyer in Kittitas.I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense
Thanks Bob33. If you don't see me online for a while you know why. :yike:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 04, 2016, 12:31:10 PM
Just give WDFW a call first, you'll be fine.I'll start a GoFundMe account for Bobcat's defense
Thanks Bob33. If you don't see me online for a while you know why. :yike:
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 01:10:32 PM
You're grasping at straws lefthook. 100% legal bull. Pass if you want, no way I would though
I would say letting an animal live is about as far away from grasping at straws as there is.
With your logic, every animal I have passed on was a straw game.
My decision to kill something I am comfortable with has to do with ethics and my personal approach to hunting. I'll let it walk, someone else can kill it.
So now it's ethics. That's good because your first post on the subject was factually incorrect.
If it's legal, kill it.
I unfortunately can not make a measurement in the field with in fractions of an inch so I believe it is not a legal kill, using the eyes and judgement which I have been given. I have read posts all over this forum (not this thread) calling 3x3 elk "spikes" because they, for some reason, don't believe eye guards count as points.
My ethical statement is because that bull is nowhere near the spirit of spike only. There is no point in me killing a bull that no way resembles a spike except for an eye guard being possibly 4 inches or so from the base of his right beam and the only way to have a definite answer is to kill it and measure it. I wonder how many "hunters" on here would shoot it, measure the distance from the base and find out it is not legal then walk away from it. Or kill it, finding out later it is not a legal kill and then try to sneak it out of the woods. The two previous statements I find unethical.
Because I wouldn't harvest the animal does not mean that others can't.
Fire at will.
Bob must not think it's legal or there would be a picture of it dead and tagged posted here. If that bull has been harvested and not posted here there could be an issue with it once a measurement was made. We'll see if that bull, dead, get's posted.
So you are saying if Bobcat doesn't post pictures then he's a possible poacher?
You're kidding right?
:yike: :yike: :yike:
I thought it was an obvious joke. I guess I had better tread lightly around here.
Post by: saylean on December 04, 2016, 01:11:05 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on December 04, 2016, 01:11:28 PM
That 4 inch measurement regulation has always seemed so iffy. I would let it walk, how accurate could a person be when trying to measure something like that, on the fly at different angles and distances. Nock that bull down and wind up being 1/2 an inch off would be a good possibility and a bad deal. Regardless, that bull is not even close to the spirit of what a spike only hunt consists of.
I would never judge a hunter who passed on an animal for any reason. If you aren't comfortable, don't take the shot.
But as far as the spirit of the law, it's a legal animal so I'd never judge someone who shot it either. Antler restrictions are put in place to protect a portion of the bulls and bucks in a herd. Taking one animal that doesn't fit the mold of what's expected does not harm that protection. There is a reason that only one antler has to qualify. Sometimes under hunting conditions, you don't see both antlers. I'd say whoever harvested this bull would have a unique trophy and they'd be perfectly legal.
I've been involved with this argument on an Alaskan hunting site I belong to, but it was over moose. Up there, they have a spike/fork regulation for moose in some units. Some people contend that any bull that is palmated isn't legal under a spike/fork rule, even some wildlife troopers have made that mitake and written people up because they shot a bull that was palmated, but didn't have any extra points off the palmation. Kind of club looking antlers. But the regulations specifically do not mention palmation, only points. So these cases have all been thrown out. Some on the forum have even suggested that it violated ethics or the spirit of the law, but the State biologists who set the seasons have explained that taking an occasional bull that doesn't fit the norm doesn't hurt a thing as far as managing the herd.
On the flip side, there have been hunters up there who have taken animals that fit the spirit of the law, but were illegal due to sticker points one inch or longer off the base of the antlers. The antlers were either a spike or fork horn but had hard to see sticker points. Hard to see those little stickers at 200-400 yards. They have changed the rule a bit to help people in that situation though.
" A point or tine originating within two inches of the base of the
antler and less than three inches in length will not be
counted as a brow tine."
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 01:11:49 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 04, 2016, 01:13:47 PM
.
Is there a ahem....point to this?
Post by: Dan-o on December 04, 2016, 01:27:43 PM
.
Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?
Which side are you thinking of?
Post by: snake on December 04, 2016, 01:35:55 PM
Post by: JDHasty on December 04, 2016, 01:41:50 PM
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 01:42:54 PM
.
Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?
Which side are you thinking of?
Kids, don't be so silly. A 5x5 was used as an example in this thread. Can you read FIVE by FIVE? What on earth would a 5x5 have to do with a spike thread?
I don't want to go all biologist on you but........a mature bull has a well established growth pattern. The little rag horns are the Bulls most likely to have horns sticking out anywhere and everywhere. The two little rag horns are a much better example of what you will find when a questionable spike comes up, not that 5x5.
I will let you guys go back to fantasy land. Cheers!
Post by: trophyhunt on December 04, 2016, 01:43:32 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 01:49:10 PM
I posted the 5x5 just to show an eye guard even on a mature bull isn't 4inches from the base, therefore proving the point that bull the OP posted about is legal. Nowhere did I say my 5x5 was legal in a spike unit lol..
Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?
Which side are you thinking of?
Kids, don't be so silly. A 5x5 was used as an example in this thread. Can you read FIVE by FIVE? What on earth would a 5x5 have to do with a spike thread?
I don't want to go all biologist on you but........a mature bull has a well established growth pattern. The little rag horns are the Bulls most likely to have horns sticking out anywhere and everywhere. The two little rag horns are a much better example of what you will find when a questionable spike comes up, not that 5x5.
I will let you guys go back to fantasy land. Cheers!
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 04, 2016, 01:54:07 PM
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 01:57:53 PM
I posted the 5x5 just to show an eye guard even on a mature bull isn't 4inches from the base, therefore proving the point that bull the OP posted about is legal. Nowhere did I say my 5x5 was legal in a spike unit lol..
Under what possible logic would this bull be legal in a spike only unit?
Which side are you thinking of?
Kids, don't be so silly. A 5x5 was used as an example in this thread. Can you read FIVE by FIVE? What on earth would a 5x5 have to do with a spike thread?
I don't want to go all biologist on you but........a mature bull has a well established growth pattern. The little rag horns are the Bulls most likely to have horns sticking out anywhere and everywhere. The two little rag horns are a much better example of what you will find when a questionable spike comes up, not that 5x5.
I will let you guys go back to fantasy land. Cheers!
I understand that buglebuster, that's cool. I was just surprised nobody commented on "why is a 5x5 in this thread" then with two rag horns they say something. If a person spends a lot of time elk hunting they will see young bulls with every conceivable set of points, tines, differing racks .... on and on. The chances of seeing a set of eye gaurds anywhere up and down a main beam is on a rag horn, hence the name.
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 02:01:34 PM
What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?
I don't have the exact sub-species in front of me. Just wanted to show two racks that were closely related in shape with different dimensions on brow tine/eye gaurd placement.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 04, 2016, 02:08:23 PM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on December 04, 2016, 02:19:49 PM
Post by: dscubame on December 04, 2016, 02:20:48 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 04, 2016, 02:35:03 PM
Your questioning the relevance of a 5 point elk pic that shows brow time distance... all the while making a case of a completely different species as relevant?What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?
I don't have the exact sub-species in front of me. Just wanted to show two racks that were closely related in shape with different dimensions on brow tine/eye gaurd placement.
It makes perfect sense... :dunno:
Post by: snake on December 04, 2016, 02:39:31 PM
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 02:51:42 PM
Your questioning the relevance of a 5 point elk pic that shows brow time distance... all the while making a case of a completely different species as relevant?What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?
I don't have the exact sub-species in front of me. Just wanted to show two racks that were closely related in shape with different dimensions on brow tine/eye gaurd placement.
It makes perfect sense... :dunno:
I didn't have a pic of two Rosie's with racks of almost the same dimensions. You guys need to spend more time in the elk woods. With time comes the needed experience to understand antler growth. The number of hours in the woods and numbers of elk I have seen would completely blow your minds. But most people don't have careers that allow for that much time in the wilderness.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 04, 2016, 02:53:38 PM
And all of your time in the elk woods has exactly what to do with wether the pic in the op is a legal spike?Your questioning the relevance of a 5 point elk pic that shows brow time distance... all the while making a case of a completely different species as relevant?What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?
I don't have the exact sub-species in front of me. Just wanted to show two racks that were closely related in shape with different dimensions on brow tine/eye gaurd placement.
It makes perfect sense... :dunno:
I didn't have a pic of two Rosie's with racks of almost the same dimensions. You guys need to spend more time in the elk woods. With time comes the needed experience to understand antler growth. The number of hours in the woods and numbers of elk I have seen would completely blow your minds. But most people don't have careers that allow for that much time in the wilderness.
It really doesn't matter how young bulls grow antlers. They are either legal or not based on our game regs
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 02:56:48 PM
Post by: Timberstalker on December 04, 2016, 02:58:55 PM
None of this makes sense. The OP's bull was fine, then a 5x5 and two rag horns of differing sub-species. Nonsense. :chuckle:
Are you serious?
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 03:20:18 PM
How many elk have you harvestedYour questioning the relevance of a 5 point elk pic that shows brow time distance... all the while making a case of a completely different species as relevant?What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?
I don't have the exact sub-species in front of me. Just wanted to show two racks that were closely related in shape with different dimensions on brow tine/eye gaurd placement.
It makes perfect sense... :dunno:
I didn't have a pic of two Rosie's with racks of almost the same dimensions. You guys need to spend more time in the elk woods. With time comes the needed experience to understand antler growth. The number of hours in the woods and numbers of elk I have seen would completely blow your minds. But most people don't have careers that allow for that much time in the wilderness.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 04, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 03:44:55 PM
TagginG along for entertainment purposes :chuckle::chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 04, 2016, 03:46:14 PM
TagginG along for entertainment purposes :chuckle::chuckle:
This is awesome! This is like comparing pepshi and coke. :chuckle:
Post by: snake on December 04, 2016, 03:49:07 PM
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 03:58:28 PM
How many elk have you harvestedYour questioning the relevance of a 5 point elk pic that shows brow time distance... all the while making a case of a completely different species as relevant?What kinda deer is that second pic of left hook?
I don't have the exact sub-species in front of me. Just wanted to show two racks that were closely related in shape with different dimensions on brow tine/eye gaurd placement.
It makes perfect sense... :dunno:
I didn't have a pic of two Rosie's with racks of almost the same dimensions. You guys need to spend more time in the elk woods. With time comes the needed experience to understand antler growth. The number of hours in the woods and numbers of elk I have seen would completely blow your minds. But most people don't have careers that allow for that much time in the wilderness.
I have no problem with the post of the 5x5 to show the distance the eye gaurds are from the bases. I just thought it was strange I got called out on the two rag horns I posted that are closer to what you would find yourself deciding on while hunting a spike only or three point minimum unit.
The OP's bull and the 5x5 are not going to be bulls you run into a lot wondering if they are legal regardless what side of the state you are on.
I have had great success in my years of elk hunting. Monster trophy bulls no, my avatar is the biggest, but plenty of satellite bulls and archery/muzzloader cows.
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 04:00:22 PM
Lefty, What was your previous screen/ account name? Yes, if only all of us peasants could understand elk like you do. Please continue to educate us on things like the "Spirit" of a spike unit, and how we should consider "how" elk develop antler growth each year before taking a shot on a 1x5 in a spike unit.
That's funny. It's just time in the woods. There is no substitute.
Post by: snake on December 04, 2016, 04:02:21 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 04:05:33 PM
Post by: snake on December 04, 2016, 04:06:49 PM
This should get something really started :chuckle: did you know you can shoot a spike with eyeguards in a true spike unitIf you would spend more time in the woods you would know that. :chuckle:
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 04:12:16 PM
HAHA, right... we are blessed with your knowledge. I am glad you created another account.
I don't elk hunt the Eastside so I have never been real concerned about wether an elk is a legal spike or not. I'm sure my view would change if I hunted the Eastside and could only shoot legal spikes. I haven't had to deal with that so my perspective is probably a lot different then Eastside hunters. Don't hate me for that.
Post by: Antlershed on December 04, 2016, 04:33:51 PM
This should get something really started :chuckle: did you know you can shoot a spike with eyeguards in a true spike unitMind blown. :chuckle:
Post by: Antlershed on December 04, 2016, 04:38:58 PM
Im reply #10, you told everyone (with some authority), that the original bull was not legal in a spike only unit. Now, its that you aren't concerned with what a legal spike is because you don't hunt the Eastside. So which is it?HAHA, right... we are blessed with your knowledge. I am glad you created another account.
I don't elk hunt the Eastside so I have never been real concerned about wether an elk is a legal spike or not. I'm sure my view would change if I hunted the Eastside and could only shoot legal spikes. I haven't had to deal with that so my perspective is probably a lot different then Eastside hunters. Don't hate me for that.
Post by: Lefthook on December 04, 2016, 04:49:35 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 05:07:21 PM
Authority? This is the internet. No, seriously, if it was spike only and I ran into that bull in a spike only unit I wouldn't shoot.Tag soup for you :chuckle:
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 04, 2016, 05:57:54 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 04, 2016, 06:01:59 PM
How about this one?Why are we bringing deer into this discussion?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 04, 2016, 06:05:47 PM
The ever elusive bearded fuzzy gigantic deer!How about this one?Why are we bringing deer into this discussion?
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 04, 2016, 06:10:05 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 04, 2016, 06:10:44 PM
The ever elusive bearded fuzzy gigantic deer!How about this one?Why are we bringing deer into this discussion?
I tend to see a lot of them. :chuckle:
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 04, 2016, 06:20:10 PM
The ever elusive bearded fuzzy gigantic deer!How about this one?Why are we bringing deer into this discussion?
I tend to see a lot of them. :chuckle:
Bob :chuckle: bobcat? Or house cat?
Post by: Ccortez on December 04, 2016, 08:01:57 PM
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Post by: sled on December 04, 2016, 08:07:40 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 08:13:23 PM
Post by: Ccortez on December 04, 2016, 08:15:36 PM
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Post by: buglebuster on December 04, 2016, 08:36:17 PM
He had a broken skull (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2F2e3db8552161f41ff85a1bed1c0529d6.jpg&hash=cce7717313225b12f1831a164e6b7cb2540d635c)Interesting! But very legal
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Post by: DaveMonti on December 04, 2016, 08:36:40 PM
How about this bull?(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2Fd7a31671776a7828dbaa2def0e416357.jpg&hash=688b8a492f1335ee334e099c0e40d9f0aeaee146)
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That there bull is dead.
Post by: jae on December 04, 2016, 09:47:20 PM
He had a broken skull (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2F2e3db8552161f41ff85a1bed1c0529d6.jpg&hash=cce7717313225b12f1831a164e6b7cb2540d635c)Did You harvest this Bull?
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If so Congratulations!
John
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 04, 2016, 10:03:16 PM
Post by: sled on December 04, 2016, 10:35:04 PM
Post by: Ccortez on December 05, 2016, 06:14:21 AM
Here's the euro (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2F078f2ee6dc9984833aed5677c9a6fd34.jpg&hash=e60f293c2b1d2a91ec409a9df7b26bba515e3739)(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2F826254df145e6296241d64d685c26529.jpg&hash=0afe40dbbcf947df6a0182b67baaded885988ba9)(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2F5ca7580c5319d1d9ac5da69b65170c99.jpg&hash=23cfa034b7f52fc68e276a09d4755d06480c6f18)He had a broken skull (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2F2e3db8552161f41ff85a1bed1c0529d6.jpg&hash=cce7717313225b12f1831a164e6b7cb2540d635c)Did You harvest this Bull?
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If so Congratulations!
John
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Post by: Ccortez on December 05, 2016, 06:14:59 AM
Yes I did harvest himHe had a broken skull (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161205%2F2e3db8552161f41ff85a1bed1c0529d6.jpg&hash=cce7717313225b12f1831a164e6b7cb2540d635c)Did You harvest this Bull?
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If so Congratulations!
John
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Post by: Ccortez on December 05, 2016, 06:16:24 AM
Damn! Poor thing. Wonder what happened to him?Not sure what happened but he was a trooper and still wanted to fight and very aggressive
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Post by: cumminsbassguy on December 05, 2016, 08:49:42 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on December 05, 2016, 09:00:05 AM
So the real question is.. are eye guards considered points or no. In like a spike only unit. Or a 3pt min, could he have a split main with a 2" browtine and be legal ?
Yes to both questions.
As long as the brow tine originates inside of 4" from the base of the antler, it has no effect on the spike ruling.
And yes on your example. In a 3 pt minimum area, a fork with a 2" brow tine would be considered a 3 pt, and legal to shoot.
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 05, 2016, 09:07:40 AM
Looks like a 2x6 :dunno::yeah:
Post by: Buck Rub Jr on December 05, 2016, 09:17:14 AM
So the real question is.. are eye guards considered points or no. In like a spike only unit. Or a 3pt min, could he have a split main with a 2" browtine and be legal ?:dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on December 05, 2016, 09:17:20 AM
Where are you seeing a second point?Looks like a 2x6 :dunno::yeah:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 05, 2016, 09:21:42 AM
eyeguardWhere are you seeing a second point?Looks like a 2x6 :dunno::yeah:
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on December 05, 2016, 09:28:05 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 05, 2016, 09:52:36 AM
It doesn't count as a point unless it originates more than four inches from the skull. Are you believing it does?eyeguardWhere are you seeing a second point?Looks like a 2x6 :dunno::yeah:
Post by: Curly on December 05, 2016, 10:00:55 AM
Is he dead yet? :dunno:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 05, 2016, 10:08:58 AM
"Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Bull elk taken in spike-only game management units (GMUs) must have at least one antler with no branches originating more than 4 inches above where the antler attaches to the skull."
Looking at the photo, the elk does not appear to have a branch originating more than four inches from the skull, particularly on its right side antler. That would make it a legal spike.
Is this typical in other states or is this another example of regulations which are very confusing here in WA?
Post by: Tbar on December 05, 2016, 10:16:03 AM
Post by: buglebuster on December 05, 2016, 10:28:38 AM
Post by: 7mmfan on December 05, 2016, 11:11:34 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 05, 2016, 11:45:41 AM
Actually, the real question should be::yeah:! That's all I'm wondering!
Is he dead yet? :dunno:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 05, 2016, 11:46:43 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 05, 2016, 11:55:43 AM
Is that when the ears are standing straight up or pointed sideways? Would a gamie take the ear and pull it up next to the antler? Ridiculous, really.I remember and participated in the dumpster fire on here a couple weeks or months ago going over just what that rule means. :chuckle:
Post by: Bob33 on December 05, 2016, 12:02:50 PM
"3 Point Minimum Elk: A 3 Pt. min. elk means that a legal elk in these GMUs must have at least 3 antler points on one side only. Antler points may include eye guards, but antler points on the lower half of either main beam must be at least four (4) inches long, measured from antler tip to nearest edge of beam."
Post by: Jpmiller on December 05, 2016, 12:29:26 PM
Post by: jackmaster on December 05, 2016, 12:31:11 PM
Looks like a 2x6 :dunno::yeah: that isn't a spike from I see.
Post by: boneaddict on December 05, 2016, 12:50:11 PM
Post by: Antlershed on December 05, 2016, 01:38:26 PM
Several years ago, the definition for a 3 point elk included a length. Pretty hard to judge whether an antler is 4" or not, especially when hunting in wet and brushy conditions. I knew a hunter who shot an elk with the third tine measuring 3.5" inches, and was cited.Which years regs is that from?
"3 Point Minimum Elk: A 3 Pt. min. elk means that a legal elk in these GMUs must have at least 3 antler points on one side only. Antler points may include eye guards, but antler points on the lower half of either main beam must be at least four (4) inches long, measured from antler tip to nearest edge of beam."
Post by: Bob33 on December 05, 2016, 01:39:42 PM
2000.Several years ago, the definition for a 3 point elk included a length. Pretty hard to judge whether an antler is 4" or not, especially when hunting in wet and brushy conditions. I knew a hunter who shot an elk with the third tine measuring 3.5" inches, and was cited.Which years regs is that from?
"3 Point Minimum Elk: A 3 Pt. min. elk means that a legal elk in these GMUs must have at least 3 antler points on one side only. Antler points may include eye guards, but antler points on the lower half of either main beam must be at least four (4) inches long, measured from antler tip to nearest edge of beam."
Post by: JBar on December 05, 2016, 01:41:19 PM
Is that when the ears are standing straight up or pointed sideways? Would a gamie take the ear and pull it up next to the antler? Ridiculous, really.I remember and participated in the dumpster fire on here a couple weeks or months ago going over just what that rule means. :chuckle:
You mean this one BULLBLASTER? http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,202662.0.html :chuckle:
Post by: Antlershed on December 05, 2016, 01:44:21 PM
To be a legal 3 point he has to have 2 points above the ear. So a spike with double eyeguards would not be legal! But as long as both eyeguards are less then 4inches from the base, he could be a legal spikeAbove the ear at what angle? This bull Lefthook posted is a perfect example of how much that line can change. :o
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 05, 2016, 01:47:20 PM
thats the one! Fine thread if I do say so myself!Is that when the ears are standing straight up or pointed sideways? Would a gamie take the ear and pull it up next to the antler? Ridiculous, really.I remember and participated in the dumpster fire on here a couple weeks or months ago going over just what that rule means. :chuckle:
You mean this one BULLBLASTER? http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,202662.0.html :chuckle:
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on December 05, 2016, 01:58:00 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 05, 2016, 02:11:29 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 05, 2016, 03:50:44 PM
Its so simple in don't know why there is an issue lolThis is what I keep telling myself but I can't stop coming back to read the comments :chuckle:
Post by: Antlershed on December 05, 2016, 05:20:30 PM
I agree the legal spike rule is easy, but what about the "two points must be above the ear" for a 3 point minimum area? The antlers attach to the skull above where the ear attaches to the head, so are all points "above the ear" unless the main beam grows downward?Its so simple in don't know why there is an issue lolThis is what I keep telling myself but I can't stop coming back to read the comments :chuckle:
Post by: csaaphill on December 05, 2016, 06:10:57 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161203%2Fa4c485f706078c2e881317c4b73fc62e.jpg&hash=c1308a07177e986fb747188698b382395f6e07da)Oregon yes they don't' count eye guards. Washington No I don't think so.
Post by: Bob33 on December 05, 2016, 06:26:37 PM
i believe they're referring to the question of whether or not it's a legal spike in Washington.I agree the legal spike rule is easy, but what about the "two points must be above the ear" for a 3 point minimum area? The antlers attach to the skull above where the ear attaches to the head, so are all points "above the ear" unless the main beam grows downward?Its so simple in don't know why there is an issue lolThis is what I keep telling myself but I can't stop coming back to read the comments :chuckle:
Post by: Antlershed on December 05, 2016, 07:16:49 PM
:tup:i believe they're referring to the question of whether or not it's a legal spike in Washington.I agree the legal spike rule is easy, but what about the "two points must be above the ear" for a 3 point minimum area? The antlers attach to the skull above where the ear attaches to the head, so are all points "above the ear" unless the main beam grows downward?Its so simple in don't know why there is an issue lolThis is what I keep telling myself but I can't stop coming back to read the comments :chuckle:
Post by: buglebuster on December 06, 2016, 12:21:44 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 06, 2016, 12:46:49 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 06, 2016, 12:51:42 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 06, 2016, 02:10:21 PM
How long have you been googling elk images to find that gem!?!!! LolPopped up on Facebook on one of the Washington hunting pages
Post by: Jpmiller on December 06, 2016, 08:11:00 PM
Post by: DaveMonti on December 06, 2016, 09:13:48 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 06, 2016, 09:15:18 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 06, 2016, 09:35:33 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on December 08, 2016, 09:56:30 AM
Post by: greenhead_killer on December 09, 2016, 07:22:43 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 09, 2016, 07:41:56 PM
Thoughts?
Put him out of his misery.
Post by: snake on December 09, 2016, 08:42:15 PM
I need to spend some more time in the woods to fully understand this bull.Thoughts?
Put him out of his misery.
Post by: Angry Perch on December 10, 2016, 09:38:50 AM
Thoughts?It would be a pain in the ass to eat short grass!
Post by: krout81 on December 13, 2016, 05:41:35 PM
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Post by: GrampasGuns on March 04, 2017, 05:43:03 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161203%2Fa4c485f706078c2e881317c4b73fc62e.jpg&hash=c1308a07177e986fb747188698b382395f6e07da)I saw this bull today in the flesh! He's huge!
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Post by: 7mmfan on March 04, 2017, 07:06:25 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161203%2Fa4c485f706078c2e881317c4b73fc62e.jpg&hash=c1308a07177e986fb747188698b382395f6e07da)I saw this bull today in the flesh! He's huge!
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Shoot him
Post by: buglebuster on March 05, 2017, 05:56:49 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 05, 2017, 06:01:45 PM
Post by: Pinetar on March 06, 2017, 09:44:23 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161203%2Fa4c485f706078c2e881317c4b73fc62e.jpg&hash=c1308a07177e986fb747188698b382395f6e07da)I saw this bull today in the flesh! He's huge!
And I bet he was hanging out with some really big boys!! hehe He was legal last year as well