Post by: HuntandFish on December 08, 2016, 08:16:38 PM
This is going to be the first build I have done and I want to do it right, so any extra info is much appreciated. I am thinking an AR platform rifle, considering a 300blk out or possibly just a solid 5.56 platform. I live on property that allows for ranges out to 300+ yards and this rifle just may end up being my coyote thumping tool as well.
Looking forward to hearing and seeing what you guys have, and info on the lowers and uppers and components and accessories you have on them would be great! And I would be curious where you go to purchase parts!
Thank you in advance,
H&F
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on December 08, 2016, 08:18:39 PM
Post by: h20hunter on December 08, 2016, 08:26:04 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 08, 2016, 08:26:20 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 08, 2016, 08:27:23 PM
Stardard AR in 556. Frangible home defense rounds, 55gr varmit rounds for yotes and paper.
Problem with that is rounds going through the walls. :dunno:
Post by: NW-GSP on December 08, 2016, 08:30:37 PM
Full size ar is tough to maneuver inside a house.
Post by: Hilltop123 on December 08, 2016, 08:31:26 PM
Fangible, was the keywordStardard AR in 556. Frangible home defense rounds, 55gr varmit rounds for yotes and paper.
Problem with that is rounds going through the walls. :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on December 08, 2016, 08:32:35 PM
:tup:Fangible, was the keywordStardard AR in 556. Frangible home defense rounds, 55gr varmit rounds for yotes and paper.
Problem with that is rounds going through the walls. :dunno:
Full size ar is tough to maneuver inside a house.
Another good point.
Post by: HuntandFish on December 08, 2016, 08:34:44 PM
Would love to hear thoughts on what caliber, overp penatration is going to be an issue no matter what caliber, if it is going to be shooting supersonic rounds I would think? I have a colt Ar15 in .223 so I am leaning towards this spectrum for interchangeability but I could be swayed ;)
Post by: HuntandFish on December 08, 2016, 08:40:40 PM
To be clear, I am not looking for a rifle to be my do everything home defense weapon, I already have my pistol and shotgun for there purposes, now I am looking to round out the field with a moderately short barreled possibly surpressed rifle to fill a few needs that are left unfilled by the other two weapons.
Thanks,
H&F
Post by: Special T on December 08, 2016, 08:47:42 PM
Post by: carlyoungs on December 08, 2016, 08:49:39 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 08, 2016, 08:50:13 PM
Post by: jdb on December 08, 2016, 08:53:47 PM
Post by: HuntandFish on December 08, 2016, 08:56:35 PM
Of course my go to weapons are the shotgun and pistol, but my property and how my house sits on it leave me slightly under gunned for potential long range threats.
Looking forward to more input!
H&F
Post by: huntnphool on December 08, 2016, 08:57:58 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 08, 2016, 09:20:36 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 08, 2016, 09:21:44 PM
Forged upper and lower rec'rs. I would suggest Aero. They are making a quality affordable product. Billet stuff is nice, but heavy and not as strong as forged if weight is the same. I am not a fan of ambi controls other than the safety.
Barrel. FN M4 barrel these barrels are hammer forged and 1/7 twist. I would not use an adjustable gas block on a combat style rifle and might go as far as running it slightly over gassed. This can be tuned with the gas port size.
BCG. I am only using JP enhanced bolts from now on. They really are superior to anything else on market.
Small parts kit. I just use the pins and such so I tend to go cheap. I suggest the ACT trigger or Rock River NM. Noveske short throw safety's are a nice addition as well.
Stock and Grips. That's shooter preference. I use a LMT SOPMOD stock and Magpul grip.
HG. Free Float is highly recommend. You don't have to spend a fortune here. There are some great HG's out there under 100.00. I have a Geissele HG right now and like it. It locks up tight and doesn't Flex at all.
Muzzle device. A2 Flashhider or if you want to be fancy BE Meyers. Brakes suck in confined spaces and muzzle flash is a real concern as well.
Mags. PMag, HK, or plain old alloy GI(with updated followers) are all good. Shoot the rifle a bunch with the mags you do decide on and keep track of those.
Charging handle. Keep it simple. I do not recommend ambi handles, they are overrated and weak. GI works great with a extended latch.
Hope this helps.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 08, 2016, 10:06:30 PM
I am about as big of AR buff as you will find but I choose shotgun and handgun myself.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 08, 2016, 10:24:21 PM
I've tried to make sure I have a handgun and rifle that shoots the same round in various options, Berretta 92's and CX-4 Storm, FN FiveseveN and AR-57, Bushmaster AR15 and Bushmaster Carbon15 Pistol. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: mountainman on December 08, 2016, 10:41:12 PM
Post by: theleo on December 09, 2016, 10:04:46 AM
Post by: highside74 on December 09, 2016, 10:47:23 AM
Post by: Rob on December 09, 2016, 10:56:48 AM
There's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
Post by: Rob on December 09, 2016, 10:58:22 AM
I'll leave my thoughts on fighting inside confined spaces to another thread. That said I would highly recommend a Flashhider over a comp and suppressed is even better.
Forged upper and lower rec'rs. I would suggest Aero. They are making a quality affordable product. Billet stuff is nice, but heavy and not as strong as forged if weight is the same. I am not a fan of ambi controls other than the safety.
Barrel. FN M4 barrel these barrels are hammer forged and 1/7 twist. I would not use an adjustable gas block on a combat style rifle and might go as far as running it slightly over gassed. This can be tuned with the gas port size.
BCG. I am only using JP enhanced bolts from now on. They really are superior to anything else on market.
Small parts kit. I just use the pins and such so I tend to go cheap. I suggest the ACT trigger or Rock River NM. Noveske short throw safety's are a nice addition as well.
Stock and Grips. That's shooter preference. I use a LMT SOPMOD stock and Magpul grip.
HG. Free Float is highly recommend. You don't have to spend a fortune here. There are some great HG's out there under 100.00. I have a Geissele HG right now and like it. It locks up tight and doesn't Flex at all.
Muzzle device. A2 Flashhider or if you want to be fancy BE Meyers. Brakes suck in confined spaces and muzzle flash is a real concern as well.
Mags. PMag, HK, or plain old alloy GI(with updated followers) are all good. Shoot the rifle a bunch with the mags you do decide on and keep track of those.
Charging handle. Keep it simple. I do not recommend ambi handles, they are overrated and weak. GI works great with a extended latch.
Hope this helps.
Great info.
I have liked the ambi set ups, I find it interesting you don't. I typically go ambi on the mag release, safety and charging handle. Beyond weak charging handles, why do you dislike ambi?
Post by: Jacque on December 09, 2016, 11:07:40 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 09, 2016, 11:15:41 AM
I'll leave my thoughts on fighting inside confined spaces to another thread. That said I would highly recommend a Flashhider over a comp and suppressed is even better.
Forged upper and lower rec'rs. I would suggest Aero. They are making a quality affordable product. Billet stuff is nice, but heavy and not as strong as forged if weight is the same. I am not a fan of ambi controls other than the safety.
Barrel. FN M4 barrel these barrels are hammer forged and 1/7 twist. I would not use an adjustable gas block on a combat style rifle and might go as far as running it slightly over gassed. This can be tuned with the gas port size.
BCG. I am only using JP enhanced bolts from now on. They really are superior to anything else on market.
Small parts kit. I just use the pins and such so I tend to go cheap. I suggest the ACT trigger or Rock River NM. Noveske short throw safety's are a nice addition as well.
Stock and Grips. That's shooter preference. I use a LMT SOPMOD stock and Magpul grip.
HG. Free Float is highly recommend. You don't have to spend a fortune here. There are some great HG's out there under 100.00. I have a Geissele HG right now and like it. It locks up tight and doesn't Flex at all.
Muzzle device. A2 Flashhider or if you want to be fancy BE Meyers. Brakes suck in confined spaces and muzzle flash is a real concern as well.
Mags. PMag, HK, or plain old alloy GI(with updated followers) are all good. Shoot the rifle a bunch with the mags you do decide on and keep track of those.
Charging handle. Keep it simple. I do not recommend ambi handles, they are overrated and weak. GI works great with a extended latch.
Hope this helps.
Great info.
I have liked the ambi set ups, I find it interesting you don't. I typically go ambi on the mag release, safety and charging handle. Beyond weak charging handles, why do you dislike ambi?
Mainly years of muscle memory. I have inadvertently hit the bolt stop and mag release. I also think that they are an additional point of failure and double the potential for foreign object issues.
Post by: Yondering on December 09, 2016, 11:56:46 AM
Stardard AR in 556. Frangible home defense rounds, 55gr varmit rounds for yotes and paper.
Problem with that is rounds going through the walls. :dunno:
That's kinda funny with the picture of your pistol caliber carbine right above. I suggest you try shooting through some building materials to find out which penetrates more.
Would love to hear thoughts on what caliber, overp penatration is going to be an issue no matter what caliber, if it is going to be shooting supersonic rounds I would think? I have a colt Ar15 in .223 so I am leaning towards this spectrum for interchangeability but I could be swayed ;)
Here's the thing about penetration guys - high velocity causes more bullet fragmentation. Fragmentation causes less penetration. You do the math there.
Pistol calibers generally penetrate farther through building materials than expanding 5.56 rounds; velocity and bullet weight make big differences there. The reality though is that all of these shoot through walls. Anyone thinking their caliber choice is best because it won't penetrate walls is fooling themselves, and is a danger to everyone else in the house.
If you really want to shoot all the way through your house and the neighbors house though, subsonic 300 Blk is a great choice. :yike:
Post by: ghosthunter on December 09, 2016, 12:33:40 PM
A Circuit Judge loaded with PDX .410 loads. 5 as fast as I can pull the trigger.
And two Bond Arms Hand cannons with .410 pdx or 45 LC.
Those will give be time to get to the safe and pull out the S&W 9ve with three 16 round mags. :chuckle:
Post by: HuntandFish on December 09, 2016, 01:07:34 PM
I agree with everyone that a shotgun is the best approach for in the house and I agree, but I would like to have something for both in the house and outside the house should the situation call for such a circumstance. I have been going through other forums and visiting countless websites and the task seems daunting with so much information to absorb. I am more than capable and not intimidated by the task of building a rifle, just looking for your opinions on what you would use, and why. And just as importantly where you get your parts from (reputable sites) and any tips and tricks you have.
Sharbait- Your post was very informative and I have been researching everything you listed :tup:
Thanks all, keep the comments coming, and where are the pictures, lets see em'. I will look up some pictures of the type of rifle I am looking to build.
H&F
Post by: Rob on December 09, 2016, 01:28:43 PM
I'll leave my thoughts on fighting inside confined spaces to another thread. That said I would highly recommend a Flashhider over a comp and suppressed is even better.
Forged upper and lower rec'rs. I would suggest Aero. They are making a quality affordable product. Billet stuff is nice, but heavy and not as strong as forged if weight is the same. I am not a fan of ambi controls other than the safety.
Barrel. FN M4 barrel these barrels are hammer forged and 1/7 twist. I would not use an adjustable gas block on a combat style rifle and might go as far as running it slightly over gassed. This can be tuned with the gas port size.
BCG. I am only using JP enhanced bolts from now on. They really are superior to anything else on market.
Small parts kit. I just use the pins and such so I tend to go cheap. I suggest the ACT trigger or Rock River NM. Noveske short throw safety's are a nice addition as well.
Stock and Grips. That's shooter preference. I use a LMT SOPMOD stock and Magpul grip.
HG. Free Float is highly recommend. You don't have to spend a fortune here. There are some great HG's out there under 100.00. I have a Geissele HG right now and like it. It locks up tight and doesn't Flex at all.
Muzzle device. A2 Flashhider or if you want to be fancy BE Meyers. Brakes suck in confined spaces and muzzle flash is a real concern as well.
Mags. PMag, HK, or plain old alloy GI(with updated followers) are all good. Shoot the rifle a bunch with the mags you do decide on and keep track of those.
Charging handle. Keep it simple. I do not recommend ambi handles, they are overrated and weak. GI works great with a extended latch.
Hope this helps.
Great info.
I have liked the ambi set ups, I find it interesting you don't. I typically go ambi on the mag release, safety and charging handle. Beyond weak charging handles, why do you dislike ambi?
Mainly years of muscle memory. I have inadvertently hit the bolt stop and mag release. I also think that they are an additional point of failure and double the potential for foreign object issues.
Makes sense!
Post by: dscubame on December 09, 2016, 01:33:34 PM
Stardard AR in 556. Frangible home defense rounds, 55gr varmit rounds for yotes and paper.
Problem with that is rounds going through the walls. :dunno:
Exactly. A inch of drywall and some insulation (if) won't hold to much back.
Post by: jpharcher on December 09, 2016, 01:40:10 PM
Why does it have to be John's wife?
Post by: Alchase on December 09, 2016, 02:46:33 PM
I have two mags loaded with Hornady 556 TAP rounds just for home use.
Hand guns loaded with Gold Dot .40s.
Post by: superdown on December 09, 2016, 03:11:31 PM
There's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
This is the exact same shotgun i have at the ready but i also installed a six round side saddle so it's got a total of twelve rounds of 3" 00 buck i keep the chamber empty for two reasons first being safety and second being the Racking sound i hope will make an impression.I also have a 300blk AR with a 1-4X Leupold next to it for longer range and if my wife or someone else can be armed also.
Post by: theleo on December 09, 2016, 03:56:54 PM
Why not just 1 1/8 oz trap loads? At the range of a few feet the pattern doesn't have a chance to open up much and the force of a nearly 500 grain mass of lead traveling 1,200 fps is going to stop any intruder in a hurry.There's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
This is the exact same shotgun i have at the ready but i also installed a six round side saddle so it's got a total of twelve rounds of 3" 00 buck i keep the chamber empty for two reasons first being safety and second being the Racking sound i hope will make an impression.I also have a 300blk AR with a 1-4X Leupold next to it for longer range and if my wife or someone else can be armed also.
Post by: superdown on December 09, 2016, 04:03:22 PM
No reason other than that's one of the most common self / home defense loads that is recommended and i get the 15 packs for cheap at walmart.Why not just 1 1/8 oz trap loads? At the range of a few feet the pattern doesn't have a chance to open up much and the force of a nearly 500 grain mass of lead traveling 1,200 fps is going to stop any intruder in a hurry.There's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
This is the exact same shotgun i have at the ready but i also installed a six round side saddle so it's got a total of twelve rounds of 3" 00 buck i keep the chamber empty for two reasons first being safety and second being the Racking sound i hope will make an impression.I also have a 300blk AR with a 1-4X Leupold next to it for longer range and if my wife or someone else can be armed also.
Post by: Lefthook on December 09, 2016, 05:26:47 PM
Post by: fish vacuum on December 09, 2016, 06:31:48 PM
I'm not saying that's the right way to think about it, but I get his thinking.
Personally, I'm in the pistol camp for in-house work. Then a pump action for everything else. If I was concerned about threats hundreds of yards out, I have a few hunting rifles that could handle it.
Post by: Lefthook on December 09, 2016, 06:57:48 PM
I have a friend who is a sheriff's deputy, firearms instructor, and former swat member. He has an extensive gun collection. After his handgun de jour, his next home defense weapon is a 30-30. His reason is that a lever action with a wood stock looks less aggressive to the average jury member should he ever find himself in court.
I'm not saying that's the right way to think about it, but I get his thinking.
Personally, I'm in the pistol camp for in-house work. Then a pump action for everything else. If I was concerned about threats hundreds of yards out, I have a few hunting rifles that could handle it.
In my post I pretty much said I would use my .357 magnum, at the end of my post I said I was comfortable with my handguns. This thread being about rifles, I included my SKS because in my mind if the handguns weren't getting the job done I feel the SKS would finish it.
I tend to believe in a sheriff deputy's reasoning, that being said, I have posted a pic of my new home defense rifle. I hope the scope doesn't look to aggressive. Also, I wouldn't shoot someone in my yard, I was strictly speaking of the perp entering my home, a home invasion style attack would definetly get my attention.
Thanks for the heads up. :tup:
Post by: brew on December 09, 2016, 07:07:15 PM
gotta disagree with the thought of keeping the chamber empty--50/50 on the "safety" aspect--i can somewhat understand if you have people in the house that you wouldn't feel comfortable with around a loaded weapon with the safety on but racking a round for the sake of an "impression" will just give your location away to the bad guy...if the situation has escalated to that point the only thing i want the bad guy hearing is the harps playing at the pearly gates and them getting on the elevator that only stops at the bottom floorThere's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
This is the exact same shotgun i have at the ready but i also installed a six round side saddle so it's got a total of twelve rounds of 3" 00 buck i keep the chamber empty for two reasons first being safety and second being the Racking sound i hope will make an impression.I also have a 300blk AR with a 1-4X Leupold next to it for longer range and if my wife or someone else can be armed also.
Post by: HuntandFish on December 09, 2016, 09:06:25 PM
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
Post by: shootem on December 09, 2016, 11:29:19 PM
Post by: Crunchy on December 10, 2016, 12:14:07 AM
Post by: Lefthook on December 10, 2016, 04:08:12 AM
I like your set up. I think there is a large number of gun owners across the country that have those guns in their arsenal so just about anybody would be grabbing something like that if the need arises. If it came down to it, I'd grab any one of those weapons and put them to use.
This is all hypothetical of course, I don't live in fear of something terrible happening, it's all a just in case type theory to me.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 10, 2016, 06:31:45 AM
Interesting thoughts on the low key rifle and after the shot repercussions. I would never shoot at any threat or person unless my life or a family members life was truly at risk, meaning there would have to be multiple shots fired in a long range incident. So I would think there would be ample proof of the need for lethal action, and at that point I would hope it wouldn't matter what the rifle looked like....But I get it, some people only know what they see on tv!
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
This is normal on this forum, for the goodie two shoes to pick apart any question a person asks. Get used to it, they probably voted for HITLERY too.
Post by: Lefthook on December 10, 2016, 08:58:54 AM
Interesting thoughts on the low key rifle and after the shot repercussions. I would never shoot at any threat or person unless my life or a family members life was truly at risk, meaning there would have to be multiple shots fired in a long range incident. So I would think there would be ample proof of the need for lethal action, and at that point I would hope it wouldn't matter what the rifle looked like....But I get it, some people only know what they see on tv!
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
This is normal on this forum, for the goodie two shoes to pick apart any question a person asks. Get used to it, they probably voted for HITLERY too.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to upset anyone with my scary black rifle. Who knows what firearms I have inside my home?
Post by: superdown on December 10, 2016, 09:22:08 AM
I would take cover before i made any noise and we all know that the racking of a shotgun is one of the most recognizable sounds in the world and i would want to avoid shooting another human being at all costs short of mine or my family's life.Another thing the sound of the shotgun will do is get the intruder to turn towards you so you don't shoot them in the back.To each his own :twocents:gotta disagree with the thought of keeping the chamber empty--50/50 on the "safety" aspect--i can somewhat understand if you have people in the house that you wouldn't feel comfortable with around a loaded weapon with the safety on but racking a round for the sake of an "impression" will just give your location away to the bad guy...if the situation has escalated to that point the only thing i want the bad guy hearing is the harps playing at the pearly gates and them getting on the elevator that only stops at the bottom floorThere's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
This is the exact same shotgun i have at the ready but i also installed a six round side saddle so it's got a total of twelve rounds of 3" 00 buck i keep the chamber empty for two reasons first being safety and second being the Racking sound i hope will make an impression.I also have a 300blk AR with a 1-4X Leupold next to it for longer range and if my wife or someone else can be armed also.
Post by: jasnt on December 10, 2016, 05:04:33 PM
12ga if you want true home defense.hard to beat a shoty for HD
Post by: Lefthook on December 10, 2016, 09:04:16 PM
Stardard AR in 556. Frangible home defense rounds, 55gr varmit rounds for yotes and paper.
Problem with that is rounds going through the walls. :dunno:
I'm pretty sure frangible home defense rounds are designed to disintegrate upon impact. This stops over penetration making them one of the safest rounds used for lethal force when discharged inside a home.
Post by: Yondering on December 10, 2016, 09:54:27 PM
I'm pretty sure frangible home defense rounds are designed to disintegrate upon impact. This stops over penetration making them one of the safest rounds used for lethal force when discharged inside a home.
There are no "safe" rounds for home defense; if it draws blood, it will go through most household walls. Period.
Post by: Yondering on December 10, 2016, 09:58:35 PM
I would take cover before i made any noise and we all know that the racking of a shotgun is one of the most recognizable sounds in the world and i would want to avoid shooting another human being at all costs short of mine or my family's life.Another thing the sound of the shotgun will do is get the intruder to turn towards you so you don't shoot them in the back.To each his own :twocents:
Other than a brick chimney, there is very little "cover" in most homes; it's all concealment. There is a very big difference, and not understanding it can get you killed.
This thread is getting pretty silly with all the uneducated guessing about what one would do and what might happen afterwards. Guys, if you're interested in defending yourself and your family, get some training from a reputable professional organization staffed by people who have actually been there and done these things. NRA safety classes don't count.
Post by: HuntandFish on December 10, 2016, 10:22:58 PM
Just trying to figure out what parts to order myself (or tell my wife to order for me) for Christmas, I heard Santa needs a few weeks notice to mill uppers and lowers;)
Regards,
H&F
Post by: mountainman on December 10, 2016, 10:29:26 PM
homework needed, as there are many loads designed to not over penetrate through interior wall's...
I'm pretty sure frangible home defense rounds are designed to disintegrate upon impact. This stops over penetration making them one of the safest rounds used for lethal force when discharged inside a home.
There are no "safe" rounds for home defense; if it draws blood, it will go through most household walls. Period.
Post by: brew on December 10, 2016, 10:34:40 PM
so let me get this straight...you have an intruder in your home...you have identified him/her as a threat to your life or your family's life ...that intruder is walking away from you down a hallway toward your children's bedroom-not leaving your premisis...you purposely rack an empty shotgun so they can turn around so you don't shoot them in the back ? that's crazy...if it were me and i felt a threat to my life or my family's life i would blast that person with no regard for the direction that they are facing. what would you do if you hear a commotion in your house and walked in to your childs room and a bad guy is facing away from you threatening your child with a knife ? would you wait until that person turned around to shoot them in the chest ? imho there is no difference in shooting someone in the back or front if they are IN MY HOUSE AND POSING A THREAT TO ME OR MY FAMILY...in that instance i would much rather be judged by 12 than have myself or my children be carried by 6I would take cover before i made any noise and we all know that the racking of a shotgun is one of the most recognizable sounds in the world and i would want to avoid shooting another human being at all costs short of mine or my family's life.Another thing the sound of the shotgun will do is get the intruder to turn towards you so you don't shoot them in the back.To each his own :twocents:gotta disagree with the thought of keeping the chamber empty--50/50 on the "safety" aspect--i can somewhat understand if you have people in the house that you wouldn't feel comfortable with around a loaded weapon with the safety on but racking a round for the sake of an "impression" will just give your location away to the bad guy...if the situation has escalated to that point the only thing i want the bad guy hearing is the harps playing at the pearly gates and them getting on the elevator that only stops at the bottom floorThere's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
This is the exact same shotgun i have at the ready but i also installed a six round side saddle so it's got a total of twelve rounds of 3" 00 buck i keep the chamber empty for two reasons first being safety and second being the Racking sound i hope will make an impression.I also have a 300blk AR with a 1-4X Leupold next to it for longer range and if my wife or someone else can be armed also.
Post by: Yondering on December 10, 2016, 10:34:53 PM
Thanks everyone for your input, I was of course looking for information specific to building a rifle and any tips and tricks associated with buying parts and thoughts on different rifle platforms. I am more than confident in my ability to protect my family....
Just trying to figure out what parts to order myself (or tell my wife to order for me) for Christmas, I heard Santa needs a few weeks notice to mill uppers and lowers;)
Regards,
H&F
Your 300 yard goal is very easily obtainable with either a 5.56 or 300 Blk. Are you thinking of an SBR or pistol, or wanting a full length (16"+ barrel) rifle? Either can meet your needs, as 300 yards really is not that far. A 16" rifle will be easier to shoot at distance of course and be a much better coyote gun, with the disadvantage of maneuvering around corners in your home.
For short barrel AR pistol or SBR:
- 5.56: I'd go 10.5" barrel, but no shorter. Carbine length gas system,and think about suppressor mounting options.
- 300 Blk: 9" barrel minimum, and pistol length gas system. All standard AR15 parts other than the barrel.
For a full size rifle, most any decent quality barrel in either caliber will meet your needs. If you choose 300 Blk, I recommend a pistol length gas system even with a 16" barrel; this makes the rifle more reliable in running both super and subsonic loads in the same setup, which you should be able to do. I would also plan on adding an adjustable gas block on a 5.56 barrel, as most of them are a little over-gassed these days.
Do you have any more specific build questions?
Post by: Yondering on December 10, 2016, 10:36:32 PM
homework needed, as there are many loads designed to not over penetrate through interior wall's...
I'm pretty sure frangible home defense rounds are designed to disintegrate upon impact. This stops over penetration making them one of the safest rounds used for lethal force when discharged inside a home.
There are no "safe" rounds for home defense; if it draws blood, it will go through most household walls. Period.
You are the one needing to do your homework. Just go shoot some building materials, it's not rocket science! If you really believe you can buy rounds that won't penetrate household walls, I've got some other things to sell you!
Post by: Mudman on December 10, 2016, 11:38:05 PM
Post by: Lefthook on December 11, 2016, 01:49:07 AM
homework needed, as there are many loads designed to not over penetrate through interior wall's...
I'm pretty sure frangible home defense rounds are designed to disintegrate upon impact. This stops over penetration making them one of the safest rounds used for lethal force when discharged inside a home.
There are no "safe" rounds for home defense; if it draws blood, it will go through most household walls. Period.
You are the one needing to do your homework. Just go shoot some building materials, it's not rocket science! If you really believe you can buy rounds that won't penetrate household walls, I've got some other things to sell you!
Yondering, it's all relative. How safe is it to let an intruder, especially an armed intruder enter your home and you go after the armed intruder without a firearm because firearms aren't "safe" to use in a home? I would hate to be one if the people you are trying to protect.
You summarize that "All firearms aren't safe for protection in a home because of the weak materials used to build houses". With that reasoning you are implying that a .300 Win Mag is equal to a .22 short when fired inside the house. That simply isn't true. There are personal protection rounds designed to protect you and your loved ones if the need arises inside your residence.
Firearms deserve respect regardless, from the range, out in the field, at home cleaning them and when they are used for protection. A person should maintain a safe procedure when operating a firearm even if operating a firearm is inside the home.
With the proper weapon, cartridge designed for the job, some intense research and proper training, even you could figure out the safest way to protect yourself and those closest to you. Even if the unthinkable occurs inside your home.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on December 11, 2016, 05:43:53 AM
Standard hollowpoints seem sufficient without going exotic.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 11, 2016, 06:01:23 AM
Interesting thoughts on the low key rifle and after the shot repercussions. I would never shoot at any threat or person unless my life or a family members life was truly at risk, meaning there would have to be multiple shots fired in a long range incident. So I would think there would be ample proof of the need for lethal action, and at that point I would hope it wouldn't matter what the rifle looked like....But I get it, some people only know what they see on tv!
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
This is normal on this forum, for the goodie two shoes to pick apart any question a person asks. Get used to it, they probably voted for HITLERY too.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to upset anyone with my scary black rifle. Who knows what firearms I have inside my home?
Yeah, you have to register ALL gun purchases now, in the commie state of Washington. So, yes, they HITLERY lovers will know what you have in your house. I feel sorry for you Washington residents.. You gotta get rid of the people who do this to you guys.
Post by: superdown on December 11, 2016, 07:40:32 AM
No offence but i am not interested in debating this with you. All of the what if's in the world don't amount to a hill of beans again to each his own :twocents:so let me get this straight...you have an intruder in your home...you have identified him/her as a threat to your life or your family's life ...that intruder is walking away from you down a hallway toward your children's bedroom-not leaving your premisis...you purposely rack an empty shotgun so they can turn around so you don't shoot them in the back ? that's crazy...if it were me and i felt a threat to my life or my family's life i would blast that person with no regard for the direction that they are facing. what would you do if you hear a commotion in your house and walked in to your childs room and a bad guy is facing away from you threatening your child with a knife ? would you wait until that person turned around to shoot them in the chest ? imho there is no difference in shooting someone in the back or front if they are IN MY HOUSE AND POSING A THREAT TO ME OR MY FAMILY...in that instance i would much rather be judged by 12 than have myself or my children be carried by 6I would take cover before i made any noise and we all know that the racking of a shotgun is one of the most recognizable sounds in the world and i would want to avoid shooting another human being at all costs short of mine or my family's life.Another thing the sound of the shotgun will do is get the intruder to turn towards you so you don't shoot them in the back.To each his own :twocents:gotta disagree with the thought of keeping the chamber empty--50/50 on the "safety" aspect--i can somewhat understand if you have people in the house that you wouldn't feel comfortable with around a loaded weapon with the safety on but racking a round for the sake of an "impression" will just give your location away to the bad guy...if the situation has escalated to that point the only thing i want the bad guy hearing is the harps playing at the pearly gates and them getting on the elevator that only stops at the bottom floorThere's a difference between home defense and ranch rifle, if you want a "Ultimate Home Defense Rifle" give up the idea of shooting coyotes at 300 yards.
Totally agree.
I also agree that a 12 gauge is the best home defense firearm.
This is the exact same shotgun i have at the ready but i also installed a six round side saddle so it's got a total of twelve rounds of 3" 00 buck i keep the chamber empty for two reasons first being safety and second being the Racking sound i hope will make an impression.I also have a 300blk AR with a 1-4X Leupold next to it for longer range and if my wife or someone else can be armed also.
Post by: jasnt on December 11, 2016, 08:30:10 AM
this one dosent get registered.Interesting thoughts on the low key rifle and after the shot repercussions. I would never shoot at any threat or person unless my life or a family members life was truly at risk, meaning there would have to be multiple shots fired in a long range incident. So I would think there would be ample proof of the need for lethal action, and at that point I would hope it wouldn't matter what the rifle looked like....But I get it, some people only know what they see on tv!
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
This is normal on this forum, for the goodie two shoes to pick apart any question a person asks. Get used to it, they probably voted for HITLERY too.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to upset anyone with my scary black rifle. Who knows what firearms I have inside my home?
Yeah, you have to register ALL gun purchases now, in the commie state of Washington. So, yes, they HITLERY lovers will know what you have in your house. I feel sorry for you Washington residents.. You gotta get rid of the people who do this to you guys.
http://ar15mold.com/freedom-15-5-kit/
To the OP
Do you save furs when you hunt coyotes? If so I'd go with 556. I love my 16"
For HD you prob won't want a scope on it unless you plan on mounting a laser sight or the iron sights that you tilt to use.
If you go with an AR just understand that after you build one you end up getting this sickness that can only be fixed by building more so you'll probably end up building separate rifles for hunting and HD
Post by: 300rum on December 11, 2016, 08:34:57 AM
16" is just fine, even the smaller people in the house can easily manipulate a 16" rifle with a collapsible stock.
Look up these guys http://leatherheadbullets.com/ and call Dave. Tell him you want a 16" with a 15" handguard, Mid length gas with an adjustable gas block. He will set you up with one of these https://www.odinworks.com/ at a great price.
The extra rail space is nice for putting on a light, which you will want. A carbine length handguard doesn't give you enough room.
These rifles are very accurate and when the gas block is adjusted correctly, it is very soft shooting.
Buy and Anderson Lower for under $50 then go to Rainier Arms in Auburn and try out their various triggers until you find the one you like, buy that one.
The Best optic for Home defense is a red dot that stays on all of the time. The Aimpoint pro fits the bill, it stays on for something like three years (change the battery annually, set the date on your phone). Don't go too cheap on the optic, so many nice rifles out there with cheap optics, don't do it! The Aimpoint won't be the best for coyote work (it will work) but it depends on what you want more.
Buy at least 10 30-Round pmags, load them to 28, put the dust covers on them and then leave them forever. Buy two Lancer mags (they have metal feed lips)load them to 28 and use them if you ever need to.
Buy a box of Winchester Ranger 64gr Powerpoint's for the rifle and run that through just to make sure it is accurate enough (it will be for house stuff). Then, buy two cases of it.
Thanks everyone for your input, I was of course looking for information specific to building a rifle and any tips and tricks associated with buying parts and thoughts on different rifle platforms. I am more than confident in my ability to protect my family....
Just trying to figure out what parts to order myself (or tell my wife to order for me) for Christmas, I heard Santa needs a few weeks notice to mill uppers and lowers;)
Regards,
H&F
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 11, 2016, 08:55:45 AM
I'm against an adjustable gas block on this kind of rifle and here is why.
People adjust them.... they are often adjusted to reduce felt recoil. Usually to to point where the rifle is short stroking. Rifles in this condition will lock back on the BHO but any change in ambient air temperature, carbon buildup or even a magazine can cause malfunctions. This is ok when blastimg beer bottles and propane cylinders in the woods, but for fighting it isn't.
I would rather use a heavy buffer and be a little overgassed.
Post by: Lefthook on December 11, 2016, 09:25:58 AM
Interesting thoughts on the low key rifle and after the shot repercussions. I would never shoot at any threat or person unless my life or a family members life was truly at risk, meaning there would have to be multiple shots fired in a long range incident. So I would think there would be ample proof of the need for lethal action, and at that point I would hope it wouldn't matter what the rifle looked like....But I get it, some people only know what they see on tv!
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
This is normal on this forum, for the goodie two shoes to pick apart any question a person asks. Get used to it, they probably voted for HITLERY too.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to upset anyone with my scary black rifle. Who knows what firearms I have inside my home?
Yeah, you have to register ALL gun purchases now, in the commie state of Washington. So, yes, they HITLERY lovers will know what you have in your house. I feel sorry for you Washington residents.. You gotta get rid of the people who do this to you guys.
Oops, what about all the guns I bought before mandatory background checks? Sorry Campmeat, but nobody has stopped by asking me to register ALL the guns I legally bought at gun shows, from friends, from strangers, etc. No, they have no idea what is in my possession.
Post by: Lefthook on December 11, 2016, 09:28:51 AM
Thanks everyone for your input, I was of course looking for information specific to building a rifle and any tips and tricks associated with buying parts and thoughts on different rifle platforms. I am more than confident in my ability to protect my family....
Just trying to figure out what parts to order myself (or tell my wife to order for me) for Christmas, I heard Santa needs a few weeks notice to mill uppers and lowers;)
Regards,
H&F
Build this. Use these in your home.
Dump the shotgun if you only want a rifle.
Post by: mountainman on December 11, 2016, 09:36:22 AM
SMH..homework needed, as there are many loads designed to not over penetrate through interior wall's...
I'm pretty sure frangible home defense rounds are designed to disintegrate upon impact. This stops over penetration making them one of the safest rounds used for lethal force when discharged inside a home.
There are no "safe" rounds for home defense; if it draws blood, it will go through most household walls. Period.
You are the one needing to do your homework. Just go shoot some building materials, it's not rocket science! If you really believe you can buy rounds that won't penetrate household walls, I've got some other things to sell you!
Post by: Alchase on December 11, 2016, 01:40:52 PM
Now that we are back on subject.
I'm against an adjustable gas block on this kind of rifle and here is why.
People adjust them.... they are often adjusted to reduce felt recoil. Usually to to point where the rifle is short stroking. Rifles in this condition will lock back on the BHO but any change in ambient air temperature, carbon buildup or even a magazine can cause malfunctions. This is ok when blastimg beer bottles and propane cylinders in the woods, but for fighting it isn't.
I would rather use a heavy buffer and be a little overgassed.
Just got done listening to gun talk, a guy shooting 300 blk out adjusted down, worked fine. Then he put silencer on it and it and his cases would eject with dents from hitting on their way out. He did not concider how much if any the effect of gas by adding the silencer.
Post by: HuntandFish on December 11, 2016, 01:45:54 PM
Is there a difference in reliable cycling between the Carbine and mid length rifles? I have an AR now that is great and amazingly accurate, but its tendancy to short stroke is high and it leaves the rifle stored away to only plink or varmint hunt with (I need to play with it and try to fix its issues...). So more than anything I am looking for superb reliability, obviously, since it will be used for HD. I am researching right now about the adjustable gas block and like the opinion above in regards to this. I like the idea of having it slightly over gassed recoil is of no concern to me, its not a match weapon.
300Rum, thanks for the great input, I am getting close to pulling the trigger :chuckle: on some christmas goodies!
H&F
Post by: Alchase on December 11, 2016, 02:03:35 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d0BiSfv3T2g
I am sure Jay and others will have some good info as well.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 12, 2016, 07:51:08 AM
this one dosent get registered.Interesting thoughts on the low key rifle and after the shot repercussions. I would never shoot at any threat or person unless my life or a family members life was truly at risk, meaning there would have to be multiple shots fired in a long range incident. So I would think there would be ample proof of the need for lethal action, and at that point I would hope it wouldn't matter what the rifle looked like....But I get it, some people only know what they see on tv!
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
This is normal on this forum, for the goodie two shoes to pick apart any question a person asks. Get used to it, they probably voted for HITLERY too.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to upset anyone with my scary black rifle. Who knows what firearms I have inside my home?
Yeah, you have to register ALL gun purchases now, in the commie state of Washington. So, yes, they HITLERY lovers will know what you have in your house. I feel sorry for you Washington residents.. You gotta get rid of the people who do this to you guys.
http://ar15mold.com/freedom-15-5-kit/
To the OP
Do you save furs when you hunt coyotes? If so I'd go with 556. I love my 16"
For HD you prob won't want a scope on it unless you plan on mounting a laser sight or the iron sights that you tilt to use.
If you go with an AR just understand that after you build one you end up getting this sickness that can only be fixed by building more so you'll probably end up building separate rifles for hunting and HD
It wouldn't because it's not a gun, or a complete lower with a registered serial number. Good catch... :tup:
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 12, 2016, 08:15:44 AM
Post by: Special T on December 12, 2016, 08:35:25 AM
Post by: Yondering on December 12, 2016, 10:23:11 AM
Yondering, it's all relative. How safe is it to let an intruder, especially an armed intruder enter your home and you go after the armed intruder without a firearm because firearms aren't "safe" to use in a home? I would hate to be one if the people you are trying to protect.
You summarize that "All firearms aren't safe for protection in a home because of the weak materials used to build houses". With that reasoning you are implying that a .300 Win Mag is equal to a .22 short when fired inside the house. That simply isn't true. There are personal protection rounds designed to protect you and your loved ones if the need arises inside your residence.
Firearms deserve respect regardless, from the range, out in the field, at home cleaning them and when they are used for protection. A person should maintain a safe procedure when operating a firearm even if operating a firearm is inside the home.
With the proper weapon, cartridge designed for the job, some intense research and proper training, even you could figure out the safest way to protect yourself and those closest to you. Even if the unthinkable occurs inside your home.
I'm not sure how you took my reply to mean you should go unarmed in your home. There are no "safe" rounds that are effective against an intruder; that doesn't mean don't use a gun, it means stop the foolishness about worrying which rounds penetrate walls - they all do. Account for that with training, shot placement, know what's behind your target, etc.
Post by: Alchase on December 12, 2016, 10:25:09 AM
Simple, light AR15 with a Reflex sight and a standard barrel. You can train an 8-year old to shoot it effectively in case mommy and daddy get knocked out. And plenty accurate enough to shoot at coyotes up to 300 yards. It may not be a one shot, one kill rifle every time at that range but should be pretty close to it. You can always mount a scope for the coyotes and target shooting.
I setup my M&P with this idea in mind.
My wife, who will shoot only occasionally, has no interest in training to muscle memory, can shoot the M&P with red dot fairly accurately for the ranges needed for home defense. Getting her to shoot BUIS was fairly comical.
I mounted a Bushnell CQTS 1x32 red dot, then told her to put the dot where she wanted the bullets to go. After about 4 shots, She was hitting constantly "close to" the quarter size bulls, with most touching at 25 yards, all within center mass.
She even killed a couple zombies, for real world practice, LOL.
Post by: Lefthook on December 12, 2016, 11:10:34 AM
Yondering, it's all relative. How safe is it to let an intruder, especially an armed intruder enter your home and you go after the armed intruder without a firearm because firearms aren't "safe" to use in a home? I would hate to be one if the people you are trying to protect.
You summarize that "All firearms aren't safe for protection in a home because of the weak materials used to build houses". With that reasoning you are implying that a .300 Win Mag is equal to a .22 short when fired inside the house. That simply isn't true. There are personal protection rounds designed to protect you and your loved ones if the need arises inside your residence.
Firearms deserve respect regardless, from the range, out in the field, at home cleaning them and when they are used for protection. A person should maintain a safe procedure when operating a firearm even if operating a firearm is inside the home.
With the proper weapon, cartridge designed for the job, some intense research and proper training, even you could figure out the safest way to protect yourself and those closest to you. Even if the unthinkable occurs inside your home.
I'm not sure how you took my reply to mean you should go unarmed in your home. There are no "safe" rounds that are effective against an intruder; that doesn't mean don't use a gun, it means stop the foolishness about worrying which rounds penetrate walls - they all do. Account for that with training, shot placement, know what's behind your target, etc.
Oh, that makes sense, like I'm grabbing my .357 and not thinking twice. I was wondering what you had in mind against an armed intruder.
Post by: Yondering on December 12, 2016, 11:50:29 AM
Yondering, it's all relative. How safe is it to let an intruder, especially an armed intruder enter your home and you go after the armed intruder without a firearm because firearms aren't "safe" to use in a home? I would hate to be one if the people you are trying to protect.
You summarize that "All firearms aren't safe for protection in a home because of the weak materials used to build houses". With that reasoning you are implying that a .300 Win Mag is equal to a .22 short when fired inside the house. That simply isn't true. There are personal protection rounds designed to protect you and your loved ones if the need arises inside your residence.
Firearms deserve respect regardless, from the range, out in the field, at home cleaning them and when they are used for protection. A person should maintain a safe procedure when operating a firearm even if operating a firearm is inside the home.
With the proper weapon, cartridge designed for the job, some intense research and proper training, even you could figure out the safest way to protect yourself and those closest to you. Even if the unthinkable occurs inside your home.
I'm not sure how you took my reply to mean you should go unarmed in your home. There are no "safe" rounds that are effective against an intruder; that doesn't mean don't use a gun, it means stop the foolishness about worrying which rounds penetrate walls - they all do. Account for that with training, shot placement, know what's behind your target, etc.
Oh, that makes sense, like I'm grabbing my .357 and not thinking twice. I was wondering what you had in mind against an armed intruder.
I just don't like to hear somebody talking about supposedly "safe" rounds they could use for home defense, where they might think a family member on the other side of a wall is safe from those rounds in case of a miss.
Personally, I keep a suppressed 9mm pistol and a 300 Blk AR pistol ready to repel boarders (or coyotes, possums, etc), and will grab the 9mm most of the time. I know rounds from either one will blast through several walls, so I plan accordingly.
Post by: Lefthook on December 12, 2016, 02:29:02 PM
this one dosent get registered.Interesting thoughts on the low key rifle and after the shot repercussions. I would never shoot at any threat or person unless my life or a family members life was truly at risk, meaning there would have to be multiple shots fired in a long range incident. So I would think there would be ample proof of the need for lethal action, and at that point I would hope it wouldn't matter what the rifle looked like....But I get it, some people only know what they see on tv!
I like the setup shown, and think it would be functional?
Thanks,
H&F
This is normal on this forum, for the goodie two shoes to pick apart any question a person asks. Get used to it, they probably voted for HITLERY too.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to upset anyone with my scary black rifle. Who knows what firearms I have inside my home?
Yeah, you have to register ALL gun purchases now, in the commie state of Washington. So, yes, they HITLERY lovers will know what you have in your house. I feel sorry for you Washington residents.. You gotta get rid of the people who do this to you guys.
http://ar15mold.com/freedom-15-5-kit/
To the OP
Do you save furs when you hunt coyotes? If so I'd go with 556. I love my 16"
For HD you prob won't want a scope on it unless you plan on mounting a laser sight or the iron sights that you tilt to use.
If you go with an AR just understand that after you build one you end up getting this sickness that can only be fixed by building more so you'll probably end up building separate rifles for hunting and HD
It wouldn't because it's not a gun, or a complete lower with a registered serial number. Good catch... :tup:
Campmeat- Not trying to highjack the thread but.....What rifle do you have in your avatar?
Post by: HuntandFish on December 15, 2016, 03:44:45 PM
http://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx
Looking forward to your thoughts.
H&F
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2016, 06:21:19 PM
What do you all think about this deal? Its not really building my own rifle...But it seems like a good deal and a lot of you have recomended Aero. It would still allow me to customize the final product. What drawbacks and inferior parts do you think come with a setup like this?
http://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx
Looking forward to your thoughts.
H&F
I've purchased a lot of product from Aero, great company and product! :tup:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,202718.msg2691553.html#msg2691553
Customer service is top notch too.
Post by: Rob on December 16, 2016, 03:30:54 PM
What do you all think about this deal? Its not really building my own rifle...But it seems like a good deal and a lot of you have recomended Aero. It would still allow me to customize the final product. What drawbacks and inferior parts do you think come with a setup like this?
http://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/oem-mid-length-16-rifle-prod81838.aspx
Looking forward to your thoughts.
H&F
Pretty good idea. It helps one of the more interesting challenges of building the upper - making sure the barrel and bolt are matched to the cartridge specs.
If you buy the barrel and bolt and put them togheter you will need to get go/nogo gauges. If you get an issue on the gauges then things get complicated.
Just depends on how much playing you want to do.
Post by: Mongo Hunter on December 19, 2016, 07:59:16 AM
Post by: b23 on December 19, 2016, 10:45:50 PM
Whatever you build make it suppressor capable and invest in one. A rifle being shot indoors is going to be LOUD, so you'll either need to keep ear pro by your gun or get used to the constant "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" in your ears forever :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I'd have to agree, shooting these short ones is VERY LOUD outside, I could only imagine what it would be like inside. I'm thinking of adding a light to mine, any recommendations as to which light to get??
Post by: Mongo Hunter on December 20, 2016, 06:27:12 AM