Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 22, 2016, 05:16:02 PM
Went in with the rifle waited for the buyer the guy at the counter writes some stuff down and asks for my ID. When the buyer gets there hey run the check and it comes back delayed. So the buyer wants to cancel the sale and get his moneu back
I say ok I'll just take the gun and sell to someone else. The ffl guy tells me that as soon as I walked through that door with the gun to sell the shop now has possession and owns it and I would have to pay a transfer fee and go through a check to get my own gun back. He then says every check they have done the last few weeks has been delayed. So I would have to wait to get my own gun back.
Is this right? Should he have told me the info about them basically owning the gun as soon as I walk in with it?
The buyer decided to keep it and wait on the check but I wanted to check here also.
Post by: jrebel on December 22, 2016, 05:17:42 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 22, 2016, 05:18:55 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 22, 2016, 05:22:21 PM
http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.113
(3) Where neither party to a prospective firearms transaction is a licensed dealer, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale or transfer through a licensed dealer as follows:
(a) The seller or transferor shall deliver the firearm to a licensed dealer to process the sale or transfer as if it is selling or transferring the firearm from its inventory to the purchaser or transferee, except that the unlicensed seller or transferor may remove the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted. If the seller or transferor removes the firearm from the business premises of the licensed dealer while the background check is being conducted, the purchaser or transferee and the seller or transferor shall return to the business premises of the licensed dealer and the seller or transferor shall again deliver the firearm to the licensed dealer prior to completing the sale or transfer.
Post by: quarterstaff on December 22, 2016, 05:31:07 PM
This was before I594 and I was offering it for sale or trade and he didn't want it for his shop but knew a guy who would be interested and offered to hold onto it and get ahold of said prospective buyer as long as it didn't end up being in his shop over 24 hrs.
It sounds s though this shop you're dealing with is looking to pad their fee intake.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 22, 2016, 05:32:47 PM
Also to spread the work the shop is "the bullet hole llc" located on sprague street in Spokane valley.
Post by: 2labs on December 22, 2016, 05:34:05 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 22, 2016, 05:50:34 PM
Post by: dscubame on December 22, 2016, 06:27:50 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 22, 2016, 06:54:17 PM
But yes I will be avoiding that shop in the future and telling everyone my experiences.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on December 22, 2016, 08:30:04 PM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 22, 2016, 08:42:49 PM
He can log it back out to you without a 4473 and with no wait.
Just another counter monkey making up his own rules.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 22, 2016, 08:56:46 PM
I'll update this thread with the outcome. I told the buyer that I would help out and make sure we are both made whole at the end of it. Most of me wants to March in there tomorrow and demand the rifle back until the check is complete but the buyer wants to wait it out.
Thanks for the info.
Post by: Jburke on December 22, 2016, 09:16:22 PM
Post by: outdooraddict on December 22, 2016, 09:55:52 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 22, 2016, 10:00:57 PM
Post by: csaaphill on December 22, 2016, 11:34:49 PM
Just had a strange experience at an ffl for a transfer.there's a similar story on here about some guy not able to get his guns back. even though he passed a BG check just before that but is still waiting to get his guns back.
Went in with the rifle waited for the buyer the guy at the counter writes some stuff down and asks for my ID. When the buyer gets there hey run the check and it comes back delayed. So the buyer wants to cancel the sale and get his moneu back
I say ok I'll just take the gun and sell to someone else. The ffl guy tells me that as soon as I walked through that door with the gun to sell the shop now has possession and owns it and I would have to pay a transfer fee and go through a check to get my own gun back. He then says every check they have done the last few weeks has been delayed. So I would have to wait to get my own gun back.
Is this right? Should he have told me the info about them basically owning the gun as soon as I walk in with it?
The buyer decided to keep it and wait on the check but I wanted to check here also.
did the FFL have possession of the gun at the time or did you? If you did I'd of kept it in my hands and left he starts to block you tell him to back off or he's taking a stump back.
Not sure but don't; think they can to that but....
Post by: HntnFsh on December 23, 2016, 05:49:11 AM
Post by: JDHasty on December 23, 2016, 05:59:42 AM
Sounds like theft of a firearm to me. Might be worth getting law enforcement involved!
Theft by deception, and being a "professional" he has a DUTY to know the law.
Post by: Fungunnin on December 23, 2016, 06:19:52 AM
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner.
The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 23, 2016, 07:08:48 AM
Post by: jay.sharkbait on December 23, 2016, 07:29:27 AM
It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner.
The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 23, 2016, 07:34:57 AM
Wow, you handled that welol. I would have blew a gasket!
Ah, the joys of liberal, anti-gun, Washingtonfornia... :tup:
Post by: Fungunnin on December 23, 2016, 07:55:21 AM
I started digging into this ....It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner.
The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 23, 2016, 07:59:14 AM
do you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?I started digging into this ....It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner.
The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Post by: Henrydog on December 23, 2016, 08:14:39 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 23, 2016, 08:26:38 AM
Post by: 7mag. on December 23, 2016, 08:36:18 AM
Post by: JDHasty on December 23, 2016, 08:59:13 AM
I probably would have ended up in jail, but I would have gone home with my rifle.
+1
Post by: Fungunnin on December 23, 2016, 09:00:07 AM
https://www.atf.gov/file/4961/downloaddo you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?I started digging into this ....It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner.
The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 23, 2016, 09:05:54 AM
Thanks fungunnin.https://www.atf.gov/file/4961/downloaddo you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?I started digging into this ....It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner.
The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk
Post by: Mossy on December 23, 2016, 08:53:22 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 23, 2016, 09:51:38 PM
Post by: dscubame on December 24, 2016, 07:40:19 AM