Strange ffl experience. The bullet hole in Spokane valley

[MtnMuley]

Wow, you handled that welol. I would have blew a gasket!

[csaaphill]

Just had a strange experience at an ffl for a transfer.
Went in with the rifle waited for the buyer the guy at the counter writes some stuff down and asks for my ID. When the buyer gets there hey run the check and it comes back delayed. So the buyer wants to cancel the sale and get his moneu back

I say ok I'll just take the gun and sell to someone else. The ffl guy tells me that as soon as I walked through that door with the gun to sell the shop now has possession and owns it and I would have to pay a transfer fee and go through a check to get my own gun back. He then says every check they have done the last few weeks has been delayed. So I would have to wait to get my own gun back.

Is this right? Should he have told me the info about them basically owning the gun as soon as I walk in with it?

The buyer decided to keep it and wait on the check but I wanted to check here also.

there's a similar story on here about some guy not able to get his guns back. even though he passed a BG check just before that but is still waiting to get his guns back.
did the FFL have possession of the gun at the time or did you? If you did I'd of kept it in my hands and left he starts to block you tell him to back off or he's taking a stump back.
Not sure but don't; think they can to that but....

[HntnFsh]

Sounds like theft of a firearm to me. Might be worth getting law enforcement involved!

[JDHasty]

Sounds like theft of a firearm to me. Might be worth getting law enforcement involved!

Theft by deception, and being a "professional" he has a DUTY to know the law. 

[Fungunnin]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

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[BULLBLASTER]

I feel like the shop should have been clear on what was going on. I asked if they could do the transfer and if I could bring the gun in and let the buyer look st it there they said no problem they already had t in their book before the buyer had even showed up! I had no idea what he was even doing! Just a shady deal all around. I haven't done enough transfers to really understand and know what it all means or needs to happen.

[jay.sharkbait]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

[CAMPMEAT]

Wow, you handled that welol. I would have blew a gasket!

Ah, the joys of liberal, anti-gun, Washingtonfornia...

[Fungunnin]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

I started digging into this ....
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

[BULLBLASTER]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

I started digging into this ....
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

do you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?

[Henrydog]

I've been to the Bullet Hole once, and was shocked the guy could stay in business, not much of a shop.  NW Collector Pawn on Pines are top notch guys..I have done plenty of business with them.

[BULLBLASTER]

I have also done and will continue to do plenty of business with Keith at collectors he is great to work with but I believe (could be wrong) he is on the order of $60 dollars for a transfer. That is not the subject of this thread. I was just trying to save the buyer some cash on his transfer assuming they would be the same.

[7mag.]

I probably would have ended up in jail, but I would have gone home with my rifle.

[JDHasty]

I probably would have ended up in jail, but I would have gone home with my rifle.

+1

[Fungunnin]

It is always a good idea to ask a shops policy prior to doing a transfer. The problem is there is a lot of unclarity between Washington state law and federal law.
Under federal law once an ffl logs a firearm into their books it can not be removed without a corresponding 4473. Every 4473 needs to be called.
So by federal law the shop is correct. As for everyone getting delayed, that is not true. I have bought 4 guns this month and never been delayed.
I was told from an FFL I know well and respect that if someone brings in a gun for transfer and both the buyer and seller are denied, not delayed, that the only option is for the shop to consign the gun for the original owner. 

The reason is once a gun goes on an FFL books the shop is legally responsible for it. In oder for it to change hands an individual must pass a background check or it must be transfered to another ffl.
Thank your Washington state law makers for their poorly written law.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

Your guy is wrong. The firearm can be logged back out to the owner without a 4473.

I started digging into this ....
Apparently the ATF issued a letter saying that for private party transfers guns don't need to be logged into an FFL's books until after the entire transaction is complete.
The only way a FFL can log a gun off their books without a 4473 is to transfer it to another FFL or if the gun was stolen. There is special exemption for gun smiths.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

do you know where I can obtain a copy of this letter?

https://www.atf.gov/file/4961/download

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