Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 11:04:18 AM
discuss, keep civil.
Post by: WAPatriot on March 03, 2017, 11:12:32 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 03, 2017, 11:18:35 AM
Can f no be an optionThats exactly what I was thinking, and if this was Facebook I'd spell it out!
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2017, 11:26:40 AM
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 11:31:51 AM
this will be a pretty stark example of how un informed most hunters are about management and specifically management for quality hunting experiences. if you want to save time I can let you know now what the poll results will be.
I'd rather see intelligent reasoned responses of why and how it should be changed (or not)
Post by: Curly on March 03, 2017, 11:33:17 AM
If the Indians don't want to change, then maybe it's time to do away with spike only for the rest of us.
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 11:40:48 AM
It probably should be permit only at least for say a 3 year period if the Yakama Indians will adhere to some realistic seasons and limits. Give it a try for a 3 year period and see how it goes.
If the Indians don't want to change, then maybe it's time to do away with spike only for the rest of us.
Art of the deal...
If they won't come to the table or self regulate then I'm in favor of an any Elk general season in areas such as this. Yes, the herd will be shot to oblivion but it will rebound and we can get on with a better and more cooperative system. There's no incentive for Yakima's (or other tribes) to come to the table for negotiations, making it permit only will just reward that behavior and punish US for being good stewards.
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2017, 11:44:06 AM
Post by: kentrek on March 03, 2017, 11:45:30 AM
Can f no be an optionThats exactly what I was thinking, and if this was Facebook I'd spell it out!
:yeah: ifor you can't kill elk now,making everything a special permit sure isn't going to help
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 11:46:59 AM
why would the herd rebound with a free for all season? all that will happen is there will be no season after the elk populations cant sustain hunting. no ones willing to give anything for what they say they care so much about. telling
My theory is a free for all season would bring the tribes to the table, a deal could then be struck, a reasonable management system could be put in place, then the Elk could rebound and we'd have cooperation with the tribes in managing it. It's a long term solution.
Post by: Skillet on March 03, 2017, 11:49:37 AM
Going permit only will likely disincentivize many hunters like myself from buying licenses at all. I'd just go over the counter in Idaho and spend my money there. I think the wdfw knows that, and will not take the chance on cutting of the revenue stream. Instead, I believe they will continue to reduce days in the field to match the harvestable numbers of elk.
My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.
Post by: lord grizzly on March 03, 2017, 11:54:44 AM
My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.
why it will never get better for you guys. I just hope after this round of new regs over here Idaho jacks the out of state prices way up. there's already an increase coming for next year I believe. you guys will get just what your asking for I promise
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 11:54:58 AM
I don't think elk hunting should go permit only. My primary reason is that what I define as a quality experience is simply the opportunity to get out in the woods and hunt every year. I don't much care about the size of any bull's rack, as long as it's legal (I don't even play the permit game anymore).
Going permit only will likely disincentivize many hunters like myself from buying licenses at all. I'd just go over the counter in Idaho and spend my money there. I think the wdfw knows that, and will not take the chance on cutting of the revenue stream. Instead, I believe they will continue to reduce days in the field to match the harvestable numbers of elk.
My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.
I understand that and feel the same way, but the success rates are abysmal. I feel that the abysmal success rates are driving away hunters too. Also; there's nothing on the table to incentivize the tribes to cooperate in a reasonable Elk harvest.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 03, 2017, 12:01:22 PM
Post by: Skillet on March 03, 2017, 12:11:00 PM
I don't think elk hunting should go permit only. My primary reason is that what I define as a quality experience is simply the opportunity to get out in the woods and hunt every year. I don't much care about the size of any bull's rack, as long as it's legal (I don't even play the permit game anymore).
Going permit only will likely disincentivize many hunters like myself from buying licenses at all. I'd just go over the counter in Idaho and spend my money there. I think the wdfw knows that, and will not take the chance on cutting of the revenue stream. Instead, I believe they will continue to reduce days in the field to match the harvestable numbers of elk.
My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.
I understand that and feel the same way, but the success rates are abysmal. I feel that the abysmal success rates are driving away hunters too. Also; there's nothing on the table to incentivize the tribes to cooperate in a reasonable Elk harvest.
Those are good points KF. I don't expect my take on it to be popular here, and that's ok.
Post by: BreezyBear on March 03, 2017, 12:29:01 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on March 03, 2017, 12:33:44 PM
All the big camps will give up and go some where else.
You will kill hunting in this state.
Post by: Jpmiller on March 03, 2017, 12:34:45 PM
I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on March 03, 2017, 12:40:08 PM
Post by: Colorado Kid on March 03, 2017, 12:41:49 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 12:44:00 PM
There are monster bulls in Washington and I personally have known guys who pull elk every year. Making it permit only won't put a monster behind every tree or even in every drainage. The system right now let's me hunt elk every year and I like that. Success rates are low sure but if you put in the time and effort and get out of your truck and out of eyesight of a road you can get into elk.
I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.
I always hear the same thing. I know guys who do it every year, get out of the truck, don't blame the natives because you cannot hunt like the guy I know, It's about the hunt not the kill.......
Sorry jpmiller. If I want to go camping I'll go camping.
Post by: Roperfive88 on March 03, 2017, 12:47:20 PM
My perspective has nothing to do with the health of the herds, increasing the size of the racks, or the meaning of "quality experience" to other people. It is just my selfish desire to be able to hunt elk every year in my home state.
why it will never get better for you guys. I just hope after this round of new regs over here Idaho jacks the out of state prices way up. there's already an increase coming for next year I believe. you guys will get just what your asking for I promise
The price increase is on resident hunters and using a price lock where if you buy your license every year it wont go up. IDFG runs on revenue form license and tag sales. Last time they raised out of state licenses it actually cost them money because some out of state hunters quit buying licenses.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 03, 2017, 12:48:52 PM
Post by: Special T on March 03, 2017, 01:01:07 PM
If horses are getting attacked by cougars how do you think the deer and elk are doing? Quotas in general and low ones to boot for cougars, wolves, coyotes and bears need an adjustment in management. It is also likely the 1 area where you can get broad support from hunters. So many of the small things have been done to protect predators we could make pages of un needed regulation to repeal.
I'll give you one small example. A few years ago you could buy a deer or elk +bear+cougar combo. There are no elk with a general season here in the nw part of the state (of any real consequence) yes the 407 has a couple of really small patches. I always bought the deer bear cougar combo. When they took that away I would either just purchase a deer or cougar tag to go with the small game. On its own it seems like a small change, and the wdfw reasoning for it was BS but it was only one small part to the puzzle.
Start stacking all the other things they do to make it hard to kill just cougars and it makes a big difference in how many are harvested... same goes for bear, and coyotes, and protected wolves.
If you want to pick a battle it needs to be one worth fighting and that makes a difference. 2c
Post by: sumpnz on March 03, 2017, 01:03:13 PM
I'm of a couple minds on this topic. I liked that it (draw only in AZ) kept the crowds down so you could have a quality experience without needing to hike 15 miles from the nearest road. But, because your points were for "elk" not "antlerless elk" and "bull elk" and "quality elk" it also meant that you had to generally choose to hunt the less desirable areas most years, or hold out for that once in a decade chance to hunt the premier units. E.g. I only ever bothered to put in for antlerless hunts for elk because the draw odds meant I could hunt about every other year. Bull tags would take 6-10 years to draw. If I only wanted that bull tag I'd need to go out of state if I wanted to hunt elk at all during the years I didn't draw the AZ tag. And that was unaffordable for me.
If you went to draw only here in WA I could definitely support that if you kept the basics of the draw system we already have and just greatly expanded the number of tags. Though, the special permit application fee should be reduced since everyone would be forced to apply if they wanted to hunt at all. So, keep separate draws for antlerless/bull/quality with separate points accumulation for each. That way if I want to hunt cows while I wait for my quality tag to come through I can. And then make the current general season areas bull rather than quality tags and provide enough tags for about 50-75% success rates to leave a harvest similar to what we see now. So, if a given GMU sees a 5 year average of 100 bulls harvested then give out 135-200 tags for that unit. Then adjust tag levels based on observed success rates and management needs.
Same could be done for deer as a means of better managing things like the Methow mule deer herd.
Post by: Bunny Thumper on March 03, 2017, 01:21:09 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on March 03, 2017, 02:03:35 PM
Post by: sumpnz on March 03, 2017, 02:18:00 PM
I like hunting every year but if we were to divide the hunters in two and you got to hunt every other year with half the people I think that would be kinda cool to. Be able to hunt deer one year and elk the next. Could be hard coming up with a system to be able to hunt with your regular hunting partners though.
Out of the last 4 years elk hunting my group has harvested 3 elk. Which, BTW, is WAY better than average success rates. Given that, even if only 1 or two of us had a tag we'd all still go since in the current system only one of us is likely to shoot something anyway. And if we just have 1 tag we could either chill out and drink beer for the rest of the season, or go home early once we get that elk rather than continue what so far has been a quixotic quest for a second animal. Only difference would be that only those with tags would bother bringing their rifle.
Post by: Special T on March 03, 2017, 02:23:46 PM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 03, 2017, 02:26:10 PM
And if we just have 1 tag we could either chill out and drink beer for the rest of the season, or go home early once we get that elk rather than continue what so far has been a quixotic quest for a second animal. Only difference would be that only those with tags would bother bringing their rifle.
The difference is that most people wouldn't say chilling out, drinking beer, going home early, and not carrying a rifle are actually hunting.
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 02:29:53 PM
And if we just have 1 tag we could either chill out and drink beer for the rest of the season, or go home early once we get that elk rather than continue what so far has been a quixotic quest for a second animal. Only difference would be that only those with tags would bother bringing their rifle.
The difference is that most people wouldn't say chilling out, drinking beer, going home early, and not carrying a rifle are actually hunting.
I would be one, that's camping not hunting.
Post by: steeleywhopper on March 03, 2017, 02:37:38 PM
Post by: Dhoey07 on March 03, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
We have enough restrictions on us. As it sits right now we manage the herds so the other user group can shoot any bull while we wait years to draw for a chance. I vote no.
not all Elk hunting is around the rez, what about the rest of the state?
Post by: sumpnz on March 03, 2017, 02:39:43 PM
And if we just have 1 tag we could either chill out and drink beer for the rest of the season, or go home early once we get that elk rather than continue what so far has been a quixotic quest for a second animal. Only difference would be that only those with tags would bother bringing their rifle.
The difference is that most people wouldn't say chilling out, drinking beer, going home early, and not carrying a rifle are actually hunting.
Didn't say it was my first choice. This year I got a cow elk on day 1. We kept at it until the old guy in the group couldn't handle another day out there. Yeah, we liked it better being able to keep hunting. But at some point saying enough and tackling the problem of having still full growlers of beer becomes more attractive when you've got enough meat hanging already to go around.
Or hunt bear & cougar
I always have my bear and cougar tag. After I got my elk I kept my rifle on me while trying to help the other guys get onto a bull just in case I had a chance at a bear or cougar. But, I don't think there's much out there in the way of predators. The gut pile from my cow hadn't been hit by anything other than bugs after 2.5 days. I know because I walked 2' away from it so I could retrieve some rope we'd left at the kill site and I took a pretty close look at it.
This fall I'm planning to scout a new place for deer hunting. I'm going to make sure I go there after bear season at least is open, and cougar season too if possible. And half the point of that trip will be to try to actually get one of those predators.
Post by: Bob33 on March 03, 2017, 02:42:59 PM
Post by: Special T on March 03, 2017, 02:46:22 PM
I too need to try harder to kill predators...
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 02:54:38 PM
@sumpnz wasn't a criticism so much as a need to kill predators despite the states attempt to protect them. I also realize that some areas hold more predators than others. Here in the NW and apparently NE there are plenty to go around.
I too need to try harder to kill predators...
It's so bad that a pack of cougars can charge a WDFW officer and he'll just fire warning shots in the air...warning shots??
Post by: Special T on March 03, 2017, 02:56:42 PM
It's a good thing white tail breed like rabbits!
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 02:59:20 PM
I know right? And you guys in the NE are screwed cause you have cougar bear and wolves!
It's a good thing white tail breed like rabbits!
The WT are in bad shape, they're huddled up in small herds on the late winter range and it's still snowed in. I have to literally crawl through the herds of WT on the road way like they were cattle, don't even want to get out of my way. I haven't even seen the mulies, there was a few small herds here and there but they're all gone. Haven't seen one in weeks.
Post by: sumpnz on March 03, 2017, 03:00:49 PM
@sumpnz wasn't a criticism so much as a need to kill predators despite the states attempt to protect them. I also realize that some areas hold more predators than others. Here in the NW and apparently NE there are plenty to go around.
I too need to try harder to kill predators...
Just looked it up, and assuming it doesn't change from last year, bear opens August 1, and cougar opens September 1. It's really too bad they don't align bear and cougar openers. I think I'll be able to scout during August, but probably not September.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 03, 2017, 03:34:45 PM
Post by: High Climber on March 03, 2017, 03:45:58 PM
If this were about mule deer I would say absolutely 100% should have been done 5 years ago. Elk on the other hand continue to thrive in this state. There is ZERO reason to not have an otc season.I agree. Although something needs to be done with the St. Helens herd, the hoof rot is a serious issue, and much of that herd is in a downward spiral.
I may be wrong, but doesn't Utah have OTC elk units?
Post by: mburrows on March 03, 2017, 03:56:00 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 03, 2017, 03:56:21 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 04:04:20 PM
Guess I should specify I really know nothing about wetside elk. But here in central washington there are more elk then there has ever been. Every year the numbers continue to climb. Harvest rates are low because output is directly related to input. Go for a drive in the mountains at noon during elk season and count the number of folks sitting in camp. Time on the mountain=success, not a permit in your pocket. I've hunted a lot of the west and I see more elk here in the hills behind my home town than anywhere I have hunted including CO.
That herd is doing well, come over to the NE corner
Post by: grundy53 on March 03, 2017, 04:04:51 PM
If this were about mule deer I would say absolutely 100% should have been done 5 years ago. Elk on the other hand continue to thrive in this state. There is ZERO reason to not have an otc season.I agree
Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 03, 2017, 04:13:03 PM
I literally know nothing about the NE elk, except it's OTC kill em all? There must be a reason for the season? Kind of like the any elk seasons in the ALW and other historic mule deer habitat ranges? I know there isn't a ton of elk up there but are their numbers at a historic low or just low in general?Guess I should specify I really know nothing about wetside elk. But here in central washington there are more elk then there has ever been. Every year the numbers continue to climb. Harvest rates are low because output is directly related to input. Go for a drive in the mountains at noon during elk season and count the number of folks sitting in camp. Time on the mountain=success, not a permit in your pocket. I've hunted a lot of the west and I see more elk here in the hills behind my home town than anywhere I have hunted including CO.
That herd is doing well, come over to the NE corner
Post by: Jpmiller on March 03, 2017, 04:20:56 PM
There are monster bulls in Washington and I personally have known guys who pull elk every year. Making it permit only won't put a monster behind every tree or even in every drainage. The system right now let's me hunt elk every year and I like that. Success rates are low sure but if you put in the time and effort and get out of your truck and out of eyesight of a road you can get into elk.
I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.
I always hear the same thing. I know guys who do it every year, get out of the truck, don't blame the natives because you cannot hunt like the guy I know, It's about the hunt not the kill.......
Sorry jpmiller. If I want to go camping I'll go camping.
I disagree that an unsuccessful hunting trip is merely camping. That sounds more like the mentality of a high fence hunt. I hunt in the area that receives a lot of bashing on this site due to low elk numbers and High hunter numbers, this General rifle elk season I saw only elk and no Hunters.
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 04:21:05 PM
They aren't managed. Some few guys have figured it out or they own property(or have access) they hunt every year, for public land DIY hunters it's a tough hunt. What I do know is there can be a ton more Elk. I can show you piles and piles of bones and wolf scat along with untouched areas that should be holding elk.
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 04:27:37 PM
There are monster bulls in Washington and I personally have known guys who pull elk every year. Making it permit only won't put a monster behind every tree or even in every drainage. The system right now let's me hunt elk every year and I like that. Success rates are low sure but if you put in the time and effort and get out of your truck and out of eyesight of a road you can get into elk.
I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.
I always hear the same thing. I know guys who do it every year, get out of the truck, don't blame the natives because you cannot hunt like the guy I know, It's about the hunt not the kill.......
Sorry jpmiller. If I want to go camping I'll go camping.
I disagree that an unsuccessful hunting trip is merely camping. That sounds more like the mentality of a high fence hunt. I hunt in the area that receives a lot of bashing on this site due to low elk numbers and High hunter numbers, this General rifle elk season I saw only elk and no Hunters.
I think you missed my point, no one including me expects everyone to be successful year after year. My point is if you go to the hunt already defeated then aren't you just camping? I buy a tag and I would hope that my odds were better than 12 in 100. According to the harvest reports 11 or 12 people out of 100 are going to be successful.
That sucks. Even worse is what the stats don't show; it's the same small group of hunters tend to be successful year after year; while the majority continue to be unsuccessful.
Post by: RB on March 03, 2017, 04:37:31 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 03, 2017, 04:40:33 PM
Does Oregon still use a draw only for Elk?on the east side.
Post by: RB on March 03, 2017, 04:49:30 PM
Does Oregon still use a draw only for Elk?on the east side.
So when they switched to draw only on half the state does anybody know how it affected hunter numbers? Hunting pressure on the west side? And how long the draw odds are?
Post by: Bob33 on March 03, 2017, 04:56:08 PM
The east side has serious points creep.Does Oregon still use a draw only for Elk?on the east side.
So when they switched to draw only on half the state does anybody know how it affected hunter numbers? Hunting pressure on the west side? And how long the draw odds are?
Post by: RB on March 03, 2017, 04:57:08 PM
The east side has serious points creep.Does Oregon still use a draw only for Elk?on the east side.
So when they switched to draw only on half the state does anybody know how it affected hunter numbers? Hunting pressure on the west side? And how long the draw odds are?
Meaning it gets harder draw every year?
Post by: trophyhunt on March 03, 2017, 05:01:21 PM
yes.The east side has serious points creep.Does Oregon still use a draw only for Elk?on the east side.
So when they switched to draw only on half the state does anybody know how it affected hunter numbers? Hunting pressure on the west side? And how long the draw odds are?
Meaning it gets harder draw every year?
Post by: Browndawg on March 03, 2017, 05:13:24 PM
Problem is, most of us on this forum hunt the cascades or SW WA. We've all noticed the lack of elk, or limping elk in the past 9 years. I'd like to see it go to spike only OTC, and draw for any bull. I'll bet $250 towards the turkey foundation we get better genetics in the cascade herd! Most of the bulls taken in our camp are weird looking raghorns.
Post by: kentrek on March 03, 2017, 05:17:48 PM
There are monster bulls in Washington and I personally have known guys who pull elk every year. Making it permit only won't put a monster behind every tree or even in every drainage. The system right now let's me hunt elk every year and I like that. Success rates are low sure but if you put in the time and effort and get out of your truck and out of eyesight of a road you can get into elk.
I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.
I always hear the same thing. I know guys who do it every year, get out of the truck, don't blame the natives because you cannot hunt like the guy I know, It's about the hunt not the kill.......
Sorry jpmiller. If I want to go camping I'll go camping.
I disagree that an unsuccessful hunting trip is merely camping. That sounds more like the mentality of a high fence hunt. I hunt in the area that receives a lot of bashing on this site due to low elk numbers and High hunter numbers, this General rifle elk season I saw only elk and no Hunters.
I think you missed my point, no one including me expects everyone to be successful year after year. My point is if you go to the hunt already defeated then aren't you just camping? I buy a tag and I would hope that my odds were better than 12 in 100. According to the harvest reports 11 or 12 people out of 100 are going to be successful.
That sucks. Even worse is what the stats don't show; it's the same small group of hunters tend to be successful year after year; while the majority continue to be unsuccessful.
Dont take offense to this but you arnt entitled to success by buying a tag, you gotta work for it.....special permits systems don't help you become a better hunter....they do the opposite
If I could I'd eliminate all special permits & spread people out with zone management like idaho
Post by: Jpmiller on March 03, 2017, 05:37:45 PM
There are monster bulls in Washington and I personally have known guys who pull elk every year. Making it permit only won't put a monster behind every tree or even in every drainage. The system right now let's me hunt elk every year and I like that. Success rates are low sure but if you put in the time and effort and get out of your truck and out of eyesight of a road you can get into elk.
I see this more as a blame the natives and the state for my not getting an elk issue. We have permit only areas and we have general season areas, as I can see the system is OK. I am no biologist however.
I always hear the same thing. I know guys who do it every year, get out of the truck, don't blame the natives because you cannot hunt like the guy I know, It's about the hunt not the kill.......
Sorry jpmiller. If I want to go camping I'll go camping.
I disagree that an unsuccessful hunting trip is merely camping. That sounds more like the mentality of a high fence hunt. I hunt in the area that receives a lot of bashing on this site due to low elk numbers and High hunter numbers, this General rifle elk season I saw only elk and no Hunters.
I think you missed my point, no one including me expects everyone to be successful year after year. My point is if you go to the hunt already defeated then aren't you just camping? I buy a tag and I would hope that my odds were better than 12 in 100. According to the harvest reports 11 or 12 people out of 100 are going to be successful.
That sucks. Even worse is what the stats don't show; it's the same small group of hunters tend to be successful year after year; while the majority continue to be unsuccessful.
But if the same people are successful year after year doesn't that point to the hunter not the elk herd? I'm not trying to be antagonistic or derogatory so please forgive me if I come across as such. I do not consider myself a very good elk hunter, I have harvested 0 elk and taken 0 shots but I have never not been able to find elk over the course of a season. My lack of success is purely based on my own lack of skill and experiences. Things do happen and no one is successful every year but if I can find elk on a consistent basis I don't see why most people can't either.
Post by: Wetwoodshunter on March 03, 2017, 06:01:31 PM
But still, even on general tags you have an opportunity to learn. I have been hunting elk for 9 years but something for me clicked and all in a sudden I got confident. That wouldn't have happened if I had not hunted unsuccessfully at first but as I learned I was breaking a lot of rules so never closing on elk. I hunted a new general tag area last year and had bulls 3 times in under 30 yards and filled my tag. Also filled it in a general tag the year before.
I would however like to see our draw like Idaho where NO points are given and everyone has fair odds.
Post by: Browndawg on March 03, 2017, 06:05:07 PM
I have hunted the coast in Oregon for many years. Hunted and watched the same genetic family year after year (they live their lives in a 1 mile radius) and watched the herd sizes get diminish to a point where I couldn't even spot them anymore. What I realized is, when the trees got too tall and choked out the food below, they finally moved on. I stared at the same hillside for years thinking where are they? Well I found them hanging out near 3 year old clearcuts not too far away.
There is hardly any Antlerless hunts, so lack of elk, especially quality elk, comes down to lack of food, and bull management. Spike only for a while :twocents:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 03, 2017, 06:14:04 PM
Post by: hunter399 on March 03, 2017, 06:17:41 PM
Post by: Browndawg on March 03, 2017, 06:42:33 PM
I have to say no. Whether the permit is multi-season, quality, antlerless or whatever I have horrible luck and plain don't draw. I'd never get to go again in this state if it was permit only. Meanwhile, I'd have to read stories about punks on here that draw each year since they started hunting.:yeah: lol same boat different oar!
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
Dont take offense to this but you arnt entitled to success by buying a tag, you gotta work for it.....special permits systems don't help you become a better hunter....they do the opposite
If I could I'd eliminate all special permits & spread people out with zone management like idaho
No offense taken, I know you don't know me nor my hunting ability but that doesn't matter. I'm not talking about personal experiences in Elk hunting. I'm talking numbers; I think 11% is far too low.
Middle fork ID archery (unit 27) is boasting 50% success rates, why do we settle for so much less in WA? That's cherry picking I know :chuckle: but ID is boasting far better success rates averaged in across the board. Elk city is 40%
But if the same people are successful year after year doesn't that point to the hunter not the elk herd? I'm not trying to be antagonistic or derogatory so please forgive me if I come across as such. I do not consider myself a very good elk hunter, I have harvested 0 elk and taken 0 shots but I have never not been able to find elk over the course of a season. My lack of success is purely based on my own lack of skill and experiences. Things do happen and no one is successful every year but if I can find elk on a consistent basis I don't see why most people can't either.
The same people are successful year after year because they have access to property you and I do not have access to. Take out all the people hunting hay fields. If you took that out of the equation and could somehow limit the success results to people who chase elk on public lands the success ratio would be cut in half or more, probably a lot more. In contrast ID is boasting very respectable success rates in wilderness units and other units comprised of mostly public land. We could have something like that here too if we could get our act together. I suspect that you're not so bad of an Elk hunter as you think you are.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 03, 2017, 07:21:25 PM
There are other consistent successes that aren't hay fields. Generally locals or groups with some kind of generational knowledge or some tactic/season advantage. Archery has the pre-rut/rut and calling that really bolsters their success. Loggers tend to have a little edge by scouting almost everyday. Some camps are willing to use ten guys to do a coordinated hunt on specific drainages.Dont take offense to this but you arnt entitled to success by buying a tag, you gotta work for it.....special permits systems don't help you become a better hunter....they do the opposite
If I could I'd eliminate all special permits & spread people out with zone management like idaho
No offense taken, I know you don't know me nor my hunting ability but that doesn't matter. I'm not talking about personal experiences in Elk hunting. I'm talking numbers; I think 11% is far too low.
Middle fork ID archery (unit 27) is boasting 50% success rates, why do we settle for so much less in WA? That's cherry picking I know :chuckle: but ID is boasting far better success rates averaged in across the board. Elk city is 40%
But if the same people are successful year after year doesn't that point to the hunter not the elk herd? I'm not trying to be antagonistic or derogatory so please forgive me if I come across as such. I do not consider myself a very good elk hunter, I have harvested 0 elk and taken 0 shots but I have never not been able to find elk over the course of a season. My lack of success is purely based on my own lack of skill and experiences. Things do happen and no one is successful every year but if I can find elk on a consistent basis I don't see why most people can't either.
The same people are successful year after year because they have access to property you and I do not have access to. Take out all the people hunting hay fields. If you took that out of the equation and could somehow limit the success results to people who chase elk on public lands the success ratio would be cut in half or more, probably a lot more. In contrast ID is boasting very respectable success rates in wilderness units and other units comprised of mostly public land. We could have something like that here too if we could get our act together. I suspect that you're not so bad of an Elk hunter as you think you are.
Post by: dscubame on March 03, 2017, 07:22:29 PM
Post by: kentrek on March 03, 2017, 07:23:16 PM
Dont take offense to this but you arnt entitled to success by buying a tag, you gotta work for it.....special permits systems don't help you become a better hunter....they do the opposite
If I could I'd eliminate all special permits & spread people out with zone management like idaho
No offense taken, I know you don't know me nor my hunting ability but that doesn't matter. I'm not talking about personal experiences in Elk hunting. I'm talking numbers; I think 11% is far too low.
Middle fork ID archery (unit 27) is boasting 50% success rates, why do we settle for so much less in WA? That's cherry picking I know :chuckle: but ID is boasting far better success rates averaged in across the board..
Look at some of the people hunting the middle fork....is it your average hunter ?? Generally people going into country like that arnt weekend warriors....(not that weekend warriors are sucky hunters,just an expression)....also look at the history of those areas....would some giant burns have anything to do with those success rates ?? Give it another few years and I bet those success rates go way down once the underbrush grows in
I'm not talking you specifically, I'm usually talking in general.....I'm sure your an awesome elk hunter lol
Post by: KFhunter on March 03, 2017, 07:26:26 PM
Quote
There are other consistent successes that aren't hay fields. Generally locals or groups with some kind of generational knowledge or some tactic/season advantage. Archery has the pre-rut/rut and calling that really bolsters their success. Loggers tend to have a little edge by scouting almost everyday. Some camps are willing to use ten guys to do a coordinated hunt on specific drainages.
yup yup yup, doesn't leave a lot for the average Elk hunters though do it.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 03, 2017, 07:28:16 PM
Post by: RB on March 03, 2017, 07:53:34 PM
Quote
There are other consistent successes that aren't hay fields. Generally locals or groups with some kind of generational knowledge or some tactic/season advantage. Archery has the pre-rut/rut and calling that really bolsters their success. Loggers tend to have a little edge by scouting almost everyday. Some camps are willing to use ten guys to do a coordinated hunt on specific drainages.
yup yup yup, doesn't leave a lot for the average Elk hunters though do it.
[/quote]
:yeah:
That right there sums it up! Have know everyone of those described in that quote. One of my best friends is a logger and has told me stories of Deer literally running into him while running a chainsaw, and watching as a herd of Elk with at least one monster Bull walk right through the landing. Others I have talked with that have hunted the same area for 50 plus years know right where the animals go, and the archery guys that know when and how to call efficiently when the rut is on.
I believe this is where the average guy gets really discouraged seeing what appears to be all the other average guys having success but not knowing those guys have field/generational knowledge. :twocents:
Post by: fisheral87 on March 03, 2017, 10:17:52 PM
Al
Post by: Jpmiller on March 04, 2017, 08:58:47 AM
I tell my employees at work all the time that getting a pay raise or more responsibilities won't make you a better employee. Same goes for hunters in my opinion. An elk is not deserved to you for buying a tag.
Post by: baldopepper on March 04, 2017, 08:59:27 AM
The good part? Hunting has improved from a straight "get your animal" perspective. I wouldn't deny that elk hunting has improved dramatically from my younger days, can't say that for deer. Breaking the state down into so many more small units has allowed a better system to manage the herds with permits more closely in line with what should be allowed to be harvested. Hunters are confined to much smaller areas and because of that most go to areas they know well and you don't get so many wanderers in your area who hunted one end of the state last week and your end of the state this week.
So basically I think it kind of depends are what your wants are from a hunting experience. If you are a gotta get my animal type and have enough money, you can go every year (always buy a CWMU permit if you don't draw) and the prospects of getting an animal are better. If you are more of a casual hunter who goes more for the experience of getting together with a large group of friends or family it's not such a great deal. I do know it's been harder to get younger family members interested in hunting when they don't know from year to year if they will actually get to carry a gun, and, if they do, the pressure to get an animal is more intense. Heck,, I'll keep going down to help family members who do get a permit simply because, for me, it's just another excuse to get outdoors. Personally, I think you'll see the permit system expand. I do believe it actually makes for better herd management and I also believe it gives the various game agencies a better way to make more money off of fewer hunters. Just my :twocents:
Post by: trophyhunt on March 04, 2017, 09:18:53 AM
Post by: flatbkman on March 04, 2017, 09:28:51 AM
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 04, 2017, 10:27:43 AM
why would the herd rebound with a free for all season? all that will happen is there will be no season after the elk populations cant sustain hunting. no ones willing to give anything for what they say they care so much about. telling
My theory is a free for all season would bring the tribes to the table, a deal could then be struck, a reasonable management system could be put in place, then the Elk could rebound and we'd have cooperation with the tribes in managing it. It's a long term solution.
I'd disagree with that. It will never go to no hunting for the tribes. They'd sue the State for not managing the herds properly to perpetuate their treaty rights and it would end up tribes hunting, non tribal sitting on the couch twiddling their thumbs.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on March 04, 2017, 10:47:46 AM
If hunter interest in elk hunting remained the same, the average hunter would be drawn to hunt elk every 4 1/4 to 8 1/2 years. Are you willing to pay 4 1/4 to 8 1/2 times the current tag rate to only be able to hunt every 4 to 8 years? You might as well be hunting out of State.
Post by: huntnnw on March 05, 2017, 11:15:03 PM
Post by: greenhead_killer on March 06, 2017, 01:53:01 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 06, 2017, 05:12:32 AM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on March 06, 2017, 05:52:21 AM
UT isn't the only state that is draw only and I find it even more absurd that the state of WA has a general OTC rifle Mule deer hunting . Many other states with far greater habitat and deer numbers are draw onlyBeen presenting evidence of the "quality" of one of our mule deer herds to em for years. I get what I consider to be an honest answer.
"We manage for opportunity, not quality"
Post by: KFhunter on March 06, 2017, 07:22:44 AM
UT isn't the only state that is draw only and I find it even more absurd that the state of WA has a general OTC rifle Mule deer hunting . Many other states with far greater habitat and deer numbers are draw onlyBeen presenting evidence of the "quality" of one of our mule deer herds to em for years. I get what I consider to be an honest answer.
"We manage foropportunitymaximum revenue, not quality"
fixed
Post by: Colorado Kid on March 06, 2017, 12:55:32 PM
Guess I should specify I really know nothing about wetside elk. But here in central washington there are more elk then there has ever been. Every year the numbers continue to climb. Harvest rates are low because output is directly related to input. Go for a drive in the mountains at noon during elk season and count the number of folks sitting in camp. Time on the mountain=success, not a permit in your pocket. I've hunted a lot of the west and I see more elk here in the hills behind my home town than anywhere I have hunted including CO.I don't know where you were hunting in Colorado, but there are many areas with a lot more elk than you will ever see around Selah!
Post by: samsqatch on March 06, 2017, 01:16:16 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 06, 2017, 01:38:52 PM
I've hunted multiple units across the state. What's your point :dunno:Guess I should specify I really know nothing about wetside elk. But here in central washington there are more elk then there has ever been. Every year the numbers continue to climb. Harvest rates are low because output is directly related to input. Go for a drive in the mountains at noon during elk season and count the number of folks sitting in camp. Time on the mountain=success, not a permit in your pocket. I've hunted a lot of the west and I see more elk here in the hills behind my home town than anywhere I have hunted including CO.I don't know where you were hunting in Colorado, but there are many areas with a lot more elk than you will ever see around Selah!
Post by: JakeLand on March 06, 2017, 04:44:17 PM
I don't think you can talk about big game management elk or deer without adressing predator management. Trying to solve the issue with out doing so is a circular firing squad.
If horses are getting attacked by cougars how do you think the deer and elk are doing? Quotas in general and low ones to boot for cougars, wolves, coyotes and bears need an adjustment in management. It is also likely the 1 area where you can get broad support from hunters. So many of the small things have been done to protect predators we could make pages of un needed regulation to repeal.
I'll give you one small example. A few years ago you could buy a deer or elk +bear+cougar combo. There are no elk with a general season here in the nw part of the state (of any real consequence) yes the 407 has a couple of really small patches. I always bought the deer bear cougar combo. When they took that away I would either just purchase a deer or cougar tag to go with the small game. On its own it seems like a small change, and the wdfw reasoning for it was BS but it was only one small part to the puzzle.
Start stacking all the other things they do to make it hard to kill just cougars and it makes a big difference in how many are harvested... same goes for bear, and coyotes, and protected wolves.
If you want to pick a battle it needs to be one worth fighting and that makes a difference. 2c
:yeah:
Post by: Gringo31 on March 06, 2017, 04:56:17 PM
Quote
I'll bet $250 towards the turkey foundation we get better genetics in the cascade herd!
Harvest won't change DNA. It will however change age class.
Not to pile on, but you can't manage half of a system. The tribal rights pretend to work together with the state......I'd love to believe that they do! I'm with KFhunter on this one. Today they have zero reason to work with the state. That being said, part of me is hopeful it's already happening. The Colockum is an example of odd increases in harvest allowed by the state.
Post by: luvmystang67 on March 06, 2017, 05:52:05 PM
For those who want opportunity on bulls every year, there's the relatively open OTC west side. For those who want to play the permit game, there's special apps for horn hunting on the east side. I concede that the NE is a little different duck, but its low in overall number of elk hunters and population, so for this discussion I don't consider it a critical component.
Regardless, the state has given you choice, it has managed herds differently so you can do whatever type of hunting your heart desires. They haven't doubled down on a single strategy and have laid out multiple options and you see what the results are.
I love the ability to have an annual elk camp where everyone can come and participate. I can simultaneously work hard to learn and achieve success every year and also put in for hunts that might get me a higher success rate or a larger animal based on what is important to me. The reason I love elk hunting is BECAUSE it is hard, its BECAUSE success rates are so low, its BECAUSE large animals are so challenging to get. This is why I think I'll be entertained throughout my life chasing these things. I grew up hunting deer on San Juan Island, which is a lot like it sounds like most of you wish elk hunting was. I rarely hunt there anymore as I'm bored by the lack of challenge.
I, like some others on here, find it pretty upsetting that some of you would prefer to take away our privilege to hunt every year so that you could have an opportunity to have an easier shot at larger antlers. Kind of reminds me of a particular political party that I don't support that would like to take things from me to give to others who aren't willing to work as hard. :bash:
Post by: T Pearce on March 06, 2017, 06:00:57 PM
Post by: dscubame on March 06, 2017, 07:18:42 PM
Manage for quality rather than opportunity and have some beautiful majestic examples of Rocky's and Rosie's. Non hunters would get increased enjoyment as well, with photo and viewing opportunities to mention a couple.
Makes a good deal of sense if you go down the rabbit hole far enough.
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on March 06, 2017, 07:58:34 PM
Im not against a statewide draw system from a fundamental standpoint. And think some areas need it badly. That said I do think managing for trophy hunting across the state is foolish, any big bull state AZ, UT,NV, alot of NM that is managed for big bulls is not managed for the "average" hunter. I also have trouble supporting most ideas that place further restrictions to licensed tagholders, with out addressing the other variables of tribal harvest and predators.
Post by: buglebrush on March 06, 2017, 11:14:53 PM
Post by: BUTTER on March 07, 2017, 02:44:51 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 07, 2017, 07:12:57 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 07, 2017, 07:28:18 AM
And by the way, the Yakama tribe also has no limit to how many female deer and elk their members may kill. They do have a restriction though, they can only kill female deer and elk four months out of the year, whereas bucks and bulls can be killed 12 months.
Post by: ribka on March 07, 2017, 07:47:27 AM
NO, NO, NO. You can't have this image of managing our deer and elk by permit only and have ideas of big bucks, bulls running all over the place on the east side...............UNTIL you get the tribes on the same page, end of discussion. And they have no reason to sit down and talk with us, Yakama's have no limit to buck deer and bull elk they can kill, you tell me how the hell your going to get the mucks, yakamas and the colvilles to restrict their hunting by some of their bad apples??? Just blow up this thread, it's useless, it only gives wdfw ideas to restrict non native hunting. :bash: :bash:
It is really naive to think the tribes will come together to manage a natural resource if we go to permit only. Look at the tribal nets across the rivers where salmon and steelhead are trying to spawn. And would be amazed at all the game waste by the tribes. Permit only would result in more big bulls and bucks for the tribes and lesser opportunities for the average hunter.
Post by: ribka on March 07, 2017, 07:48:54 AM
Take the tribal hunting out of the equation and we could possibly discuss a system like in Utah or Arizona until then pointless. Look at the fishing opportunities the last 2 years. Have they improved for the average sportsmen or the tribe?
Post by: trophyhunt on March 07, 2017, 07:51:29 AM
exactly, that what I'm saying.NO, NO, NO. You can't have this image of managing our deer and elk by permit only and have ideas of big bucks, bulls running all over the place on the east side...............UNTIL you get the tribes on the same page, end of discussion. And they have no reason to sit down and talk with us, Yakama's have no limit to buck deer and bull elk they can kill, you tell me how the hell your going to get the mucks, yakamas and the colvilles to restrict their hunting by some of their bad apples??? Just blow up this thread, it's useless, it only gives wdfw ideas to restrict non native hunting. :bash: :bash:
It is really naive to think the tribes will come together to manage a natural resource if we go to permit only. Look at the tribal nets across the rivers where salmon and steelhead are trying to spawn. And would be amazed at all the game waste by the tribes. Permit only would result in more big bulls and bucks for the tribes and lesser opportunities for the average hunter.
Post by: Jpmiller on March 07, 2017, 09:29:04 AM
Post by: sumpnz on March 07, 2017, 09:38:00 AM
I'm not in favor of draw only seasons but I keep seeing NV and UT being held up as examples of successes and I thought they had significant tribal hunting there as well? Am I misinformed or is something going on here that's not going on elsewhere?
I think the Boldt decision gives the tribes a vastly greater ability to do whatever they want here vs. those other states. Both in terms of fishing and hunting.
Look at halibut fishing as one example. Sport fishermen in Oregon and BC get WAY more days to fish halibut and are able to harvest more per person than WA. It's the same populations of halibut. Why do you think we get so screwed compared to them? It's not just the tribes, but that is a big part of it.
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 07, 2017, 11:33:27 AM
We could have permit only elk hunting and still keep our harvest numbers the same in certain units. Where does this idea come from that permit only hunting is about creating trophy elk units? Permit only hunting would simply allow the WDFW to manage elk harvest by GMU.
:yeah:
By itself, permit only doesn't mean you won't be able to hunt every year. They can still manage for opportunity. Heck, they could give 50,000 tags for the Colockum or Margret if they wanted, so you could still draw and hunt every year. But it gives them a tool to spread out demand and better respond to the needs of an individual herd.
Post by: dscubame on March 07, 2017, 07:00:57 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 07, 2017, 07:06:58 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 07, 2017, 07:12:11 PM
I'm not in favor of draw only seasons but I keep seeing NV and UT being held up as examples of successes and I thought they had significant tribal hunting there as well? Am I misinformed or is something going on here that's not going on elsewhere?
I don't know this is 100% correct, but I'm under the impression that in other states tribal members hunt mostly on their own reservations. Apparently they are able to properly manage their wildlife and they don't need to go elsewhere to find good hunting. Or maybe they're required to follow the same seasons and regulations, and purchase the same hunting licenses that we do if hunting off reservation. I really don't know, but I agree with you in that it doesn't seem like other states have the same issues that we do.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 07, 2017, 07:15:36 PM
Post by: dvolmer on March 08, 2017, 08:33:38 AM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 08, 2017, 09:00:52 AM
A lot of good ideas on this post going on both sides for and against. But the fact is clear, there will be no changes to the system because the system isn't based on quality hunting or any other thing for that matter. it is based solely on revenue to the state! The system now with all of its glory and all of the special hunt categories and permits is made to produce revenue and I mean LOTS of revenue. Not revenue for hunting but revenue for social programs and the general fund. Those behind it all care nothing about your personal hunt experience no matter what you want it to be. Oh, the biologists and game dept folks might be but their hands are tied in most cases when it comes to affecting revenue. If you get what you want with the system that is in place now they are ok with that but its all about the money. If it wasn't, this state would be trying to outlaw evil hunting like nothing you could imagine. To the everyday Washington state Liberal, hunting is a necessary evil that must be tolerated because of the big bucks it brings in. Oh, and by the way, the big bucks I'm talking about aren't animals with horns! Its the green folding kind! Wish for what ever system you want to but it just aint going to change. I don't mean to be sarcastic, its just a simple fact. I guess we have to make the best of what we have but it is slowly going to die as our kids (in general) aren't being introduced to hunting like the kids in the past. A few are but its the exception not the norm. Access diminishes and license prices go through the roof. Its a sad scenario. The cost for my instate licenses here in Washington are approaching my costs for out of state non- resident licenses. I guess Im just an old realist so don't mind me! Happy Hunting to all!!
Forcing everyone to apply, even for hunts with 100% draw odds, would raise more $$. Otherwise, people can just buy their tag OTC and not pay the extra $6 to apply. I don't see your point.
Post by: dvolmer on March 08, 2017, 09:03:51 AM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 08, 2017, 09:17:15 AM
In a permit only system you would only be applying for one.
No reason you need to overhaul the whole system, all that would need happen is the OTC hunts would become part of the Buck or Bull categories. All the other categories that are already permit only could stay the same. Utah does it this way - you have one draw for a general buck tag, and then there is a separate draw for limited entry buck tags.
There are a lot of hunters that are just a hair from pulling the plug on the whole system. This would put them over the top.I find it hard to believe that many hunters would pull the plug simply because the draw system got tweaked. I think it more likely that part-time hunters might not participate because permits allocated to certain overcrowded spots (e.g., Colockum for elk, Methow or Entiat for deer) might not be enough to fully meet demand, and they may have to find a new spot. They might have a better experience elsewhere, but having to learn a new spot would be too much. On the flipside, you might have people opting back in if the pumpkin patch were better managed. I know I didn't buy an elk tag for many years for that reason. I'm sure others are in the same boat.
Post by: chester on March 08, 2017, 09:21:57 AM
It's not tweaking the draw system that would push them over the edge. It's the ELIMINATION OF OTC that would. Also I don't know anyone who would be happy paying another $6 per species on top of already incredibly high resident prices.In a permit only system you would only be applying for one.
No reason you need to overhaul the whole system, all that would need happen is the OTC hunts would become part of the Buck or Bull categories. All the other categories that are already permit only could stay the same. Utah does it this way - you have one draw for a general buck tag, and then there is a separate draw for limited entry buck tags.There are a lot of hunters that are just a hair from pulling the plug on the whole system. This would put them over the top.I find it hard to believe that many hunters would pull the plug simply because the draw system got tweaked. I think it more likely that part-time hunters might not participate because permits allocated to certain overcrowded spots (e.g., Colockum for elk, Methow or Entiat for deer) might not be enough to fully meet demand, and they may have to find a new spot. They might have a better experience elsewhere, but having to learn a new spot would be too much. On the flipside, you might have people opting back in if the pumpkin patch were better managed. I know I didn't buy an elk tag for many years for that reason. I'm sure others are in the same boat.
Post by: dvolmer on March 08, 2017, 09:30:29 AM
Post by: Skillet on March 08, 2017, 09:48:28 AM
This isn't about the money, it isn't about the size of the antlers, or the success rates. It's about the heritage, experience of a father and son being in the woods on a hunt, the family tradition being passed down. Go permit only and you will likely lose that connection. Once there is a break in the family tradition of hunting, it is gone. Look at the guys that come on here and say they want to try to start hunting elk in their 20's, 30's, and older. It is a tough row to hoe, and I rarely see them back with success stories.
Let's not do this to our hunting heritage. Leave it OTC for elk tags in general, and permit only for east side bull draws.
Post by: bobcat on March 08, 2017, 09:57:45 AM
Post by: Skillet on March 08, 2017, 10:15:23 AM
From their website:
http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/big_game/elk/index.asp (http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/big_game/elk/index.asp)
Oregon’s elk are one of the most sought-after species for hunters and the second most popular game animal after deer. Rocky Mountain elk are found in eastern Oregon and Roosevelt elk are found in western Oregon, with most concentrated in the Coast, Cascade and Blue Mountain ranges. Both controlled (limited entry) and over-the-counter (general season) hunting opportunities are available for elk in Oregon.
Oregon’s big game are managed by wildlife management units, particularly for controlled hunts, so get familiar with the boundaries where you want to hunt. Hunters in Oregon can access millions of acres of public land open to hunting (national forests, BLM land, state forests, wildlife areas) plus many private lands open through Oregon’s Access and Habitat program. See www.oregonhuntingmap.com to find a place to hunt.
Oregon offers rifle, archery and muzzleloader hunts with some special hunts just for youth (age 17 and under). See the current Oregon Big Game Regulations for exact season dates and bag limits.
Rifle hunting is general season in western Oregon for the most part, except for some coastal units where it’s controlled hunting. There is one week-long general season hunt with a spike only bag limit in parts of NE Oregon (Rocky Mt Elk 2nd season), but remaining eastern Oregon seasons are controlled. All the general rile elk seasons take place in October and November.
Archery elk hunting is general season nearly statewide and coincides with general archery deer season. The bag limit is “one elk” in many units. It opens on a Saturday in late August and runs 30 days, ending on a Sunday in late September. Some controlled archery hunts are also available.
Muzzleloader controlled hunts are available.
New in 2016, a Premium Elk Hunt is available in almost all wildlife management units. Hunters who draw this special tag can hunt Sept. 1-Nov. 30."
Post by: Bob33 on March 08, 2017, 10:23:16 AM
All the general rile elk seasons take place in October and November.
Post by: Skillet on March 08, 2017, 10:25:21 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 08, 2017, 10:34:40 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 08, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
Okay. So what about Arizona and Nevada?an elk tag in NV is darn near a unicorn. 10 year waiting period for you if you are lucky enough to draw. Not sure what the waiting period on residents is though.
Post by: kentrek on March 08, 2017, 10:55:56 AM
Post by: buglebrush on March 08, 2017, 11:11:20 AM
Hey shooting an elk every ten years is better then our state...and at least it's a quality experience !!! :chuckle:
Not true. I kill a bull basically every year, and always have quality experiences. Am still waiting to draw my first special permit too. :twocents:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on March 08, 2017, 11:27:12 AM
. But in all other states that I hunt in, your second and third choices mean absolutely nothing because its never drawn. I could explain how that works but I don't want to type all day.This has nothing to do with having more or les otc opportunity or draw tags to apply for. It's strictly how the draws are run. In wa they draw an app and go through all its choices until there's an open permit. In other places they only look at peoples first choices until all first choices are done then leftovers go to a draw of second choices.
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 08, 2017, 11:31:45 AM
Hey shooting an elk every ten years is better then our state...and at least it's a quality experience !!! :chuckle::chuckle: true but that's ten years AFTER you draw. Draw odds in NV make some of our bull tags look easy to draw.
Post by: kentrek on March 08, 2017, 01:03:36 PM
Hey shooting an elk every ten years is better then our state...and at least it's a quality experience !!! :chuckle::chuckle: true but that's ten years AFTER you draw. Draw odds in NV make some of our bull tags look easy to draw.
Which is why I pass on NV for elk....
We must not price our selves out of a vote....that price can include money or TIME
Post by: OutHouse on March 08, 2017, 03:16:18 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 08, 2017, 04:25:51 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 08, 2017, 04:28:20 PM
Post by: dscubame on March 08, 2017, 04:50:04 PM
how many of the 77 people that voted for permit only statewide put in for permits now and sit out the general season? Do you practice what you preach already?
I sit out every season in WA unless I draw a tag under the current point system.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 08, 2017, 04:52:22 PM
how many of the 77 people that voted for permit only statewide put in for permits now and sit out the general season? Do you practice what you preach already?
I sit out every season in WA unless I draw a tag under the current point system.
Are you a modern Hunter for elk?
Post by: dscubame on March 08, 2017, 04:54:59 PM
how many of the 77 people that voted for permit only statewide put in for permits now and sit out the general season? Do you practice what you preach already?
I sit out every season in WA unless I draw a tag under the current point system.
Are you a modern Hunter for elk?
Preference is Muzzy for the WA season dates. Capable of all 3.
Post by: WAcoueshunter on March 08, 2017, 04:55:18 PM
how many of the 77 people that voted for permit only statewide put in for permits now and sit out the general season? Do you practice what you preach already?
:hello:
I apply for either archery or muzzy eastside elk tags. Haven't hunted OTC here in close to 10 years. Bought a west side tag and hunted OTC in about 2008. If I had nothing else going, I'd probably be out there though - any hunting is better than no hunting. But I generally have better options elsewhere to fill my hunt calendar.
Post by: SCRUBS on March 08, 2017, 07:26:11 PM
NO, NO, NO. You can't have this image of managing our deer and elk by permit only and have ideas of big bucks, bulls running all over the place on the east side...............UNTIL you get the tribes on the same page, end of discussion. And they have no reason to sit down and talk with us, Yakama's have no limit to buck deer and bull elk they can kill, you tell me how the hell your going to get the mucks, yakamas and the colvilles to restrict their hunting by some of their bad apples??? Just blow up this thread, it's useless, it only gives wdfw ideas to restrict non native hunting. :bash: :bash:
It is really naive to think the tribes will come together to manage a natural resource if we go to permit only. Look at the tribal nets across the rivers where salmon and steelhead are trying to spawn. And would be amazed at all the game waste by the tribes. Permit only would result in more big bulls and bucks for the tribes and lesser opportunities for the average hunter.
Post by: hughjorgan on March 08, 2017, 08:23:26 PM
how many of the 77 people that voted for permit only statewide put in for permits now and sit out the general season? Do you practice what you preach already?
I sit out every season in WA unless I draw a tag under the current point system.
Are you a modern Hunter for elk?
Preference is Muzzy for the WA season dates. Capable of all 3.
I would have thought more modern guys would be in favor of permit only because of the over crowding. I rarely see anyone during archery season and am into elk all the time I would imagine muzzy season would be even better.
how many of the 77 people that voted for permit only statewide put in for permits now and sit out the general season? Do you practice what you preach already?
:hello:
I apply for either archery or muzzy eastside elk tags. Haven't hunted OTC here in close to 10 years. Bought a west side tag and hunted OTC in about 2008. If I had nothing else going, I'd probably be out there though - any hunting is better than no hunting. But I generally have better options elsewhere to fill my hunt calendar.
:hello:
But you still hunt out of state for elk then from the sounds of it?
Post by: bobdog86 on March 12, 2017, 10:43:06 AM
Exactly, the fact this topic is even discussed is a one sided view....and yes, this is a waste of discussion, great in theory but would be a failure in application. There would be zero cooperation in management with the Native American tribe/popluation, by their right and by our doing...Until both side can work together, waste of discussion.NO, NO, NO. You can't have this image of managing our deer and elk by permit only and have ideas of big bucks, bulls running all over the place on the east side...............UNTIL you get the tribes on the same page, end of discussion. And they have no reason to sit down and talk with us, Yakama's have no limit to buck deer and bull elk they can kill, you tell me how the hell your going to get the mucks, yakamas and the colvilles to restrict their hunting by some of their bad apples??? Just blow up this thread, it's useless, it only gives wdfw ideas to restrict non native hunting. :bash: :bash:
It is really naive to think the tribes will come together to manage a natural resource if we go to permit only. Look at the tribal nets across the rivers where salmon and steelhead are trying to spawn. And would be amazed at all the game waste by the tribes. Permit only would result in more big bulls and bucks for the tribes and lesser opportunities for the average hunter.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 12, 2017, 11:52:18 AM
exactly, waist of time.Exactly, the fact this topic is even discussed is a one sided view....and yes, this is a waste of discussion, great in theory but would be a failure in application. There would be zero cooperation in management with the Native American tribe/popluation, by their right and by our doing...Until both side can work together, waste of discussion.NO, NO, NO. You can't have this image of managing our deer and elk by permit only and have ideas of big bucks, bulls running all over the place on the east side...............UNTIL you get the tribes on the same page, end of discussion. And they have no reason to sit down and talk with us, Yakama's have no limit to buck deer and bull elk they can kill, you tell me how the hell your going to get the mucks, yakamas and the colvilles to restrict their hunting by some of their bad apples??? Just blow up this thread, it's useless, it only gives wdfw ideas to restrict non native hunting. :bash: :bash:
It is really naive to think the tribes will come together to manage a natural resource if we go to permit only. Look at the tribal nets across the rivers where salmon and steelhead are trying to spawn. And would be amazed at all the game waste by the tribes. Permit only would result in more big bulls and bucks for the tribes and lesser opportunities for the average hunter.
Post by: elksnout on March 12, 2017, 09:00:47 PM
Elksnout
Post by: snake on March 12, 2017, 09:03:43 PM
Post by: Rainstorm Hunter on March 12, 2017, 09:10:19 PM
Post by: elksnout on March 12, 2017, 10:10:41 PM
Yes please, more regulation. :bash: Cant believe there are people dumb enough to even entertain such an idea.
So we as a group of sportsman on HW cannot even have a civil discussion without name calling? I should have known better...I've been following this subject since it started and finally wanted to add another perspective that hadn't been brought up. I mistakenly thought that my two cents was as valuable as others. Shame on me Mr. Snake. I bow to your vast knowledge and wisdom over us dumb people. Thanks for the encouragement. Over and out.
Post by: buglebrush on March 13, 2017, 12:29:36 AM
Lots of passion for this subject. I think that we all can agree that we all love to hunt elk. I have seen so many things go away that I took for granted since I started hunting in the early 70's. Makes me want to drop to my knees and cry like a little school girl. And I'll see more no doubt. Even as much as I love elk camp if I couldn't hunt elk each year I would use that vacation time and spend it hunting deer or hunt out of state ( which I already do ). At this point in my life it's more about the resource rather than my personnel gains and I want to leave behind something for my grandkids.
Elksnout
If you really care about the resource you should know that going permit only simply rewards WDFW with extra money while giving them a pass on their horrible management. ( Predators, pressure increasing short seasons, etc...). :bdid: We need to address the real problems rather than give away more of our children's freedoms without actually doing anything to help. :bash:
Post by: jdb on March 13, 2017, 05:33:06 AM
If this were about mule deer I would say absolutely 100% should have been done 5 years ago. Elk on the other hand continue to thrive in this state. There is ZERO reason to not have an otc season.agreed
Post by: Pinetar on March 13, 2017, 06:10:08 AM
If this were about mule deer I would say absolutely 100% should have been done 5 years ago. Elk on the other hand continue to thrive in this state. There is ZERO reason to not have an otc season.agreed
:yeah: Elk are doing great in Central WA, they should probably give more branch tags next season with all the spikes that made it through last season.
Don't know anything about Wetside or NE Elk.
Post by: KFhunter on March 13, 2017, 08:46:17 AM
Antlerless Elk is mostly gone which is a good step (remove ALL anterless elk hunts) but lacking any predator control efforts :dunno: I'm not seeing the Elk I saw 3-4 years ago, especially not seeing the elk I saw 7 years ago :(
Post by: sumpnz on March 13, 2017, 09:57:19 AM
I think we need a draw only in E/WA, especially in the 100 series GMU's.
Antlerless Elk is mostly gone which is a good step (remove ALL anterless elk hunts) but lacking any predator control efforts :dunno: I'm not seeing the Elk I saw 3-4 years ago, especially not seeing the elk I saw 7 years ago :(
Re: predator control - how much additional cougar (and coyote) would need to be removed to make a noticeable difference in deer and elk populations? Double? Quadruple? How much are wolves really impacting deer/elk herds in WA right now?
I know some folks call for coyotes. For cougar, if you wanted to try to bring them in, would you do similar calling? Other than as a pure target of opportunity, how does one hunt cougar without dogs?
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 13, 2017, 10:10:10 AM
Post by: KFhunter on March 13, 2017, 10:16:34 AM
Re: predator control - how much additional cougar (and coyote) would need to be removed to make a noticeable difference in deer and elk populations? Double? Quadruple? How much are wolves really impacting deer/elk herds in WA right now?
I know some folks call for coyotes. For cougar, if you wanted to try to bring them in, would you do similar calling? Other than as a pure target of opportunity, how does one hunt cougar without dogs?
Cougar - They can be called in, I've called 4 myself but due to setup errors on my part I haven't connected; I'm still fairly new to calling in cats but I'm getting a handle on it now. I think I've reached a point where I can be reasonably successful given the opportunity. I planed to hunt this winter hard, but 101 and 105 reached their pathetic quota and closed Jan 1st.
GMU 113 stayed open but it's a bit of a drive. We need to make cougar year round hunting, remove the quota's, and educate more hunters on bringing in cougars to vocals and distress sounds. I prefer to hunt late winter but with 2-5 cougar quota's limits the opportunistic hunters are reaching the quota's before guys like me get out in later in the season to hit the winter deer ranges where the big cats converge. Right now is prime cougar hunting and also when people are having the most conflict.
Bear - Spring bear need to be OTC for a few years until their populations are brought down, it's not a super successful hunt in it's current form so I think the bear could withstand OTC spring tags for a while, when populations go down then reaccess. WDFW doesn't react very fast so I would favor a 3-5 year spring OTC hunt then see how it's doing.
wolves - ya.
Post by: snake on March 13, 2017, 05:51:12 PM
Sorry snowflake, don't over think it. We don't need to go to a draw only.Yes please, more regulation. :bash: Cant believe there are people dumb enough to even entertain such an idea.
So we as a group of sportsman on HW cannot even have a civil discussion without name calling? I should have known better...I've been following this subject since it started and finally wanted to add another perspective that hadn't been brought up. I mistakenly thought that my two cents was as valuable as others. Shame on me Mr. Snake. I bow to your vast knowledge and wisdom over us dumb people. Thanks for the encouragement. Over and out.
Post by: dscubame on March 13, 2017, 05:53:06 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2017, 06:00:15 PM
Sorry snowflake, don't over think it. We don't need to go to a draw only.Yes please, more regulation. :bash: Cant believe there are people dumb enough to even entertain such an idea.
So we as a group of sportsman on HW cannot even have a civil discussion without name calling? I should have known better...I've been following this subject since it started and finally wanted to add another perspective that hadn't been brought up. I mistakenly thought that my two cents was as valuable as others. Shame on me Mr. Snake. I bow to your vast knowledge and wisdom over us dumb people. Thanks for the encouragement. Over and out.
No, we don't NEED to, but it would allow for proper management of our state's elk, and it would make for much better hunting opportunities than what we have now. I'd actually start elk hunting in this state again if the WDFW would properly manage our elk herds using science rather than popular opinion.
Post by: idahohuntr on March 13, 2017, 06:18:59 PM
Post by: bobdog86 on March 13, 2017, 06:19:57 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on March 13, 2017, 06:28:35 PM
Like I stated before, unless you can get the Native American population on board to manage collectively with WDFW it would be an effort in futility. In a perfect world, great, let's try it, but it's not gonna happen, not in your life time, not in mine. Not there fault, it is there right.i think I've said this about 2 or 3 times already on this thread. It is pointless without the tribes cooperation, and that will not happen.
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
Post by: bobdog86 on March 13, 2017, 07:01:44 PM
I totally get the issue that if the state increases the number of elk in our state through more limited hunting that the native Americans would only kill more elk, entirely defeating the purpose of our reduction in harvest. However, it's mostly only one tribe that has the year around season with no limit to how many elk each person is allowed to take, and we all know which tribe that is. So my solution to that would be an unlimited number of permits in those GMU's in which that particular tribe allows un-controlled hunting by their people. So while it would be a "general season," anyone who applied for a permit would get it.my particular issue is the SE Blues, primarily from Idaho Native Americans. Currently there is no control or management, contrary to what any one says. If we could get some cooperation with that, I'd possibly in agreement, I do like the unlimited # of permits, I may get one..
Post by: kentrek on March 13, 2017, 07:04:02 PM
bySorry snowflake, don't over think it. We don't need to go to a draw only.Yes please, more regulation. :bash: Cant believe there are people dumb enough to even entertain such an idea.
So we as a group of sportsman on HW cannot even have a civil discussion without name calling? I should have known better...I've been following this subject since it started and finally wanted to add another perspective that hadn't been brought up. I mistakenly thought that my two cents was as valuable as others. Shame on me Mr. Snake. I bow to your vast knowledge and wisdom over us dumb people. Thanks for the encouragement. Over and out.
No, we don't NEED to, but it would allow for proper management of our state's elk, and it would make for much better hunting opportunities than what we have now. I'd actually start elk hunting in this state again if the WDFW would properly manage our elk herds using science rather than popular opinion.
So why not use science now ?? Why go from one end of the spectrum to the other ??? I'm all for science...but science doesn't necessarily mean limited draw
Post by: snake on March 13, 2017, 07:10:22 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2017, 07:12:02 PM
Sorry to hurt your little feelers ladies, for those of you who haven't been paying attention for about the last +20 years, more regulation in Washington is BAD news. Hunting, fishing, gun rights... I can make a list or give a 7 hour powerpoint presentation if needed.
What makes it bad in Washington but good in other states? Why are we different?
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 07:17:02 PM
Sorry to hurt your little feelers ladies, for those of you who haven't been paying attention for about the last +20 years, more regulation in Washington is BAD news. Hunting, fishing, gun rights... I can make a list or give a 7 hour powerpoint presentation if needed.
What makes it bad in Washington but good in other states? Why are we different?
Larger land mass
Fewer people
Different treaties
Predator management
Better habitat
That's a start.....
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2017, 07:19:06 PM
Sorry to hurt your little feelers ladies, for those of you who haven't been paying attention for about the last +20 years, more regulation in Washington is BAD news. Hunting, fishing, gun rights... I can make a list or give a 7 hour powerpoint presentation if needed.
What makes it bad in Washington but good in other states? Why are we different?
Larger land mass
Fewer people
Different treaties
Predator management
Better habitat
That's a start.....
Which position are you arguing for? You just made the argument for draw only elk hunting in Washington stronger. :dunno:
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 07:24:17 PM
If it goes permit the numbers will be low and just get lower. I wouldn't even want to think of what they would charge for them. We will never get it back.
Think about cougars. They went from an 11 month season to having quota overnight.
Some people seem to be ok with getting to go elk hunting less then half a dozen times in their life. I'm betting more aren't.
Post by: snake on March 13, 2017, 07:24:51 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on March 13, 2017, 07:27:00 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2017, 07:33:45 PM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 13, 2017, 07:34:38 PM
Is the concern that there aren't enough elk, or that there aren't enough trophy elk, or that there are too many hunters? I don't see the first two as an issue here right now in the areas I am familiar with and honestly getting away from other hunters hasn't proven to be all that difficult in my experience. I don't think I grasp what problem we are trying to solve.:yeah: I'm still trying to figure it out. Where the state wants elk, there continues to be more and more every year.
Post by: buglebrush on March 13, 2017, 07:34:47 PM
I think we need a draw only in E/WA, especially in the 100 series GMU's.
Antlerless Elk is mostly gone which is a good step (remove ALL anterless elk hunts) but lacking any predator control efforts :dunno: I'm not seeing the Elk I saw 3-4 years ago, especially not seeing the elk I saw 7 years ago :(
Re: predator control - how much additional cougar (and coyote) would need to be removed to make a noticeable difference in deer and elk populations? Double? Quadruple? How much are wolves really impacting deer/elk herds in WA right now?
I know some folks call for coyotes. For cougar, if you wanted to try to bring them in, would you do similar calling? Other than as a pure target of opportunity, how does one hunt cougar without dogs?
That's exactly the point. We need to change the rules on predators not elk. Dogs for bears and cats, OTC spring bear, Wolf tags and trapping. NE Washington did be managed just like N Idaho.
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 07:36:01 PM
being good in other states would be like saying ours is bad in our state,not everyone in the state agrees it is bad and not everyone in these other states agrees that theirs is goodSorry to hurt your little feelers ladies, for those of you who haven't been paying attention for about the last +20 years, more regulation in Washington is BAD news. Hunting, fishing, gun rights... I can make a list or give a 7 hour powerpoint presentation if needed.
What makes it bad in Washington but good in other states? Why are we different?
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 07:39:00 PM
The problem is it's ALREADY essentially permit only, because the general modern firearm season only allows us to hunt spikes. So most people buy an elk tag only so they can apply for special permits. If they don't draw, they don't hunt. Eliminate the spike only general season, and increase the number of permits available in the draw, and we get to hunt elk more often.Statewide 3pt min. Problem solved
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2017, 07:40:40 PM
The problem is it's ALREADY essentially permit only, because the general modern firearm season only allows us to hunt spikes. So most people buy an elk tag only so they can apply for special permits. If they don't draw, they don't hunt. Eliminate the spike only general season, and increase the number of permits available in the draw, and we get to hunt elk more often.Statewide 3pt min. Problem solved
I'd settle for that. :tup:
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 07:42:43 PM
Post by: buglebrush on March 13, 2017, 07:43:27 PM
Strife 5 pt mine... :drool:The problem is it's ALREADY essentially permit only, because the general modern firearm season only allows us to hunt spikes. So most people buy an elk tag only so they can apply for special permits. If they don't draw, they don't hunt. Eliminate the spike only general season, and increase the number of permits available in the draw, and we get to hunt elk more often.Statewide 3pt min. Problem solved
Post by: emac on March 13, 2017, 08:09:51 PM
It is absolutely terrible the truck loads of bulls that come out of them mountains. I could go on. And now they are hunting a different kind of bull alsoI totally get the issue that if the state increases the number of elk in our state through more limited hunting that the native Americans would only kill more elk, entirely defeating the purpose of our reduction in harvest. However, it's mostly only one tribe that has the year around season with no limit to how many elk each person is allowed to take, and we all know which tribe that is. So my solution to that would be an unlimited number of permits in those GMU's in which that particular tribe allows un-controlled hunting by their people. So while it would be a "general season," anyone who applied for a permit would get it.my particular issue is the SE Blues, primarily from Idaho Native Americans. Currently there is no control or management, contrary to what any one says. If we could get some cooperation with that, I'd possibly in agreement, I do like the unlimited # of permits, I may get one..
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 08:14:04 PM
that would be cool no doubt but it would surely hurt the elk population.more success has a tendency to do thatHow would that hurt the population more then the current APR?
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 08:20:07 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 08:22:19 PM
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 08:25:16 PM
It's been going on on the west side for 20 years.
Welcome to the world of rag horns :hello:
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 08:30:16 PM
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 08:36:59 PM
And what do you think they learn? Elk aren't exactly looking for a father figure, they don't have an apprenticeship to figure out what to do with a hard on.
I'm pretty sure they can figure that out on their own . And elk social structure is run by the lead cow.
Post by: bobdog86 on March 13, 2017, 09:02:27 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 09:19:15 PM
You aren't gonna clean out every bull in eastern Washington.It doesn't take every bull to hurt the elk. :bash: This is another wildlife thread without a peep from any of the employees that can explain why it is the way it is or why they should change it.it is deafening.they always seem to have something to say on these issues except when it might hurt their take home pay.
And what do you think they learn? Elk aren't exactly looking for a father figure, they don't have an apprenticeship to figure out what to do with a hard on.
I'm pretty sure they can figure that out on their own . And elk social structure is run by the lead cow.
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 09:24:31 PM
I'm nit seeing a downside to the idea.
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 09:34:22 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 09:36:01 PM
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 09:38:56 PM
But to follow your question you'd probably see a ton of younger bucks killed. If there was no doe harvest? You'd still continte see the age class of deer killed decline. There would still be big bucks but they are smarter and would probably be in the not so easy to access area.
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2017, 09:41:37 PM
Post by: chester on March 13, 2017, 09:42:35 PM
that being said how many spike 2 point or 3 point do you see when hunting? honestlyDeer or elk? Well the answer for both is a lot. East side deer can turn up a dozen spikes and two points a day.
West side elk had days where I've seen a dozen spike elk in mf season . A few with splits up top as well.
All I usually see while hunting is one 3pt and head home with it.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 13, 2017, 09:47:05 PM
that being said how many spike 2 point or 3 point do you see when hunting? honestlyUsually quite a few spikes and 2s. The later in the year less and less 3s and above. But most spikes and 2s and small raghorns still run with the herd full time.
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 09:49:14 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2017, 09:55:12 PM
Post by: emac on March 13, 2017, 10:37:58 PM
I know the Nez Perce would love the 5 PT minimum....just sayingNo they wouldn't. That would be to much competition for them. It would cut down drastically on the big bulls they can take out of the blues
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: bosifus on March 13, 2017, 10:40:57 PM
Post by: JeffRaines on March 14, 2017, 01:19:00 AM
Keep the current special permits. If you draw on an off year it doesn't reset your cooldown.
Post by: TommyH on March 14, 2017, 05:35:12 AM
Post by: PA BEN on March 16, 2017, 05:31:07 AM
NO!!!!:yeah:
Post by: cryder on March 16, 2017, 06:35:33 AM
Post by: Karl Blanchard on March 16, 2017, 07:27:41 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on March 16, 2017, 07:35:14 AM
PERZACKLY!
Post by: buglebrush on March 16, 2017, 09:08:28 PM
Post by: chester on March 16, 2017, 09:22:41 PM
And there you have it !!!! Just like i said years ago !! We all meet at the end of the last existing trail wodering were all the critters went , they tell us to relinquish our tags , licenses , social security cards , weapons , cash , controlled substances , parking permits , hunting rights , and anything else that resembles freedom , and for more money than we can spend we get a two day g.p.s. tracked permit to walk around a little bit untill our vehicle is towed by the slacked jawed yokle you met at the gate cuz you didnt register your tag number with fish n brokers new union master hunter legisletion unit created by that hick chick watress at coulee dam general store on christmas eve like listed in the new hunters law book published by Trumps excecutive new law and order , so he can track your every profitable motions !! Whew ! that was very mind draining ill c u next week !
Do we have a translator?
Post by: fishngamereaper on March 16, 2017, 10:04:02 PM
Post by: Hi-Liter on March 18, 2017, 06:39:58 PM
Post by: DavidM on April 11, 2017, 07:23:31 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on April 11, 2017, 07:33:19 PM
Post by: stickslinger on April 11, 2017, 07:35:00 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on April 11, 2017, 07:59:16 PM
Post by: DavidM on April 11, 2017, 08:52:36 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on April 11, 2017, 09:02:56 PM
I thought that my picture would get a few comments. But I use the UTV so I can park my truck and Drive from camp to camp for the social hour :chuckle: I use it more at home than up hunting its a good conversation piece up hunting though. Sorry to get off topic.Actually that's very cool,I love riding up the road on my atv to say howdy and get to know who's out there with me.You find some pretty good people out there
Post by: Allen23 on April 20, 2017, 07:51:46 AM
It probably should be permit only at least for say a 3 year period if the Yakama Indians will adhere to some realistic seasons and limits. Give it a try for a 3 year period and see how it goes.
If the Indians don't want to change, then maybe it's time to do away with spike only for the rest of us.
I'm with this guy!! I can see no good coming from limiting the rest of us so that a certain group of people can take advantage of the elk population. Everyone has to be on the same page. Hunting treaties would need some corrections and verbiage changes before this would be effective, I think.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 20, 2017, 07:54:08 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 20, 2017, 08:33:42 AM
Post by: Jpmiller on April 20, 2017, 12:57:27 PM
Post by: chester on April 22, 2017, 08:54:40 AM
I say we open the logging back up and see how that goes before we start blaming the Indians. While I still find elk pretty much Everytime I look i can say it is getting harder and seems number may be less up in the timber where there are little clearings left.Increased feed for the herds, add some fire prevention to the area. It'd be a sound improvement. :tup:
Post by: Deerelk37 on April 26, 2017, 03:38:19 PM
As an example of permit vs non permit-
ive hunted the Lewis river for years and watched it decline slowly. Still elk there, just a nice steady decline. You could go 8 bowls in a row and not spot an elk in the LR. Meanwhile over the road in the Margaret there were elk everywhere. Every drainage. Quite honestly you could trip on one. At least when it was permit only. Same mountain. Different regulations, way different elk population. So it's definitely possible to increase herds with permit regulation, the wdfw needs to strike a better balance. Only thing if it isn't soon...it'll be too late. :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 26, 2017, 03:48:19 PM
All GMU's that are within the Yakama's hunting area should have the same seasons and regulations that the Yakama's adhere to, in my opinion. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, the treaty says they have the right to hunt "in common" with us. So being that they refuse to limit themselves in any way, I say we do the same. Bull season will be year around, and cow elk season will be September 1 to December 31, no limit to how many elk a person may take. The rest of the state can go to permit only so our elk can be properly managed.
The problem with your theory is we, as Yakamas hunt most of the State. So your theory would not pan out like you envision it. Let's say you get it passed for the 300 units, we'll then I'd head to the blues or up towards Spokane or heck even the white river watershed area.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 26, 2017, 03:50:19 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on April 26, 2017, 06:12:38 PM
Oh and I'm not picky, so an animal is an animal and it wouldn't bother me if it went open. All the elk would get pushed down into the dark deep nasty stuff where I go and nothing will change for me. :dunno:
This already happens every year where I hunt. Please stop posting stuff like this more than a few guys might get out of their trucks and I might start seeing this pumpkin patch I keep hearing about and stop seeing elk.
Post by: lemondog on April 26, 2017, 07:08:48 PM
Post by: Ironhead on April 26, 2017, 07:19:37 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 26, 2017, 07:28:06 PM
All GMU's that are within the Yakama's hunting area should have the same seasons and regulations that the Yakama's adhere to, in my opinion. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, the treaty says they have the right to hunt "in common" with us. So being that they refuse to limit themselves in any way, I say we do the same. Bull season will be year around, and cow elk season will be September 1 to December 31, no limit to how many elk a person may take. The rest of the state can go to permit only so our elk can be properly managed.
The problem with your theory is we, as Yakamas hunt most of the State. So your theory would not pan out like you envision it. Let's say you get it passed for the 300 units, we'll then I'd head to the blues or up towards Spokane or heck even the white river watershed area.
I'm not sure why you say Yakamas can hunt the whole state. You mean with a hunting license and tag, and following the same seasons and rules that we all do? Yes, that is true. But you surely aren't saying you can hunt the whole state under your non-seasons and non-regulations, and no limits, correct?
Here's a map of the ceded area which is where you are allowed to hunt:
Post by: buglebrush on April 26, 2017, 09:25:56 PM
Post by: bobdog86 on April 26, 2017, 09:49:05 PM
Post by: emac on April 26, 2017, 10:08:45 PM
Like I have said, unless there is full cooperation between state and the Native American population, this is a pointless thread.....period. And I wouldn't expect any type of dialogue happening in my lifetime, our children's. And I don't necessarily blame them. It can not be a one way street, so let's quit fooling ourselves. Oh, and by the way bobcat, do not forget the Nez Perce in the Blues, they "exercise" their rights pretty well.I was just going to bring that up. The nez perce put a hurting on the elk in the blues. But from talking to em last year the elk might get a little break now that they are seeing moose in them blues
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Post by: Slamadoo on April 26, 2017, 10:23:34 PM
I'm in favor of letting the game management process continue to do its work. Let the biologists and wildlife science do its thing. The North American model has been proven to work. Want evidence? Look at wild turkeys and even elk.
Could we log more? Yes. Could the natives exercise restraint? Yes. However, these things are largely out of the control of WDFW.
I personally love being able to hunt every year and with two little guys approaching hunting age, the idea of having to draw a tag every 2-3 years isn't attractive or acceptable to me.
I encourage every one of you to put your money, time, and energy where your mouth is and support reputable hunting and conservation organizations like RMEF, MDF, TRCP, BHA, and others. I know that many of you already do, but maybe join another group, volunteer, or promote these organizations to others. We can all do more, even if it is only a small amount more.
I love hunting and know that you all do as well. We need to harness and channel this passion towards the most efficient and productive strategies that we can.
Regards
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 27, 2017, 07:40:42 AM
All GMU's that are within the Yakama's hunting area should have the same seasons and regulations that the Yakama's adhere to, in my opinion. If you can't beat them, join them. After all, the treaty says they have the right to hunt "in common" with us. So being that they refuse to limit themselves in any way, I say we do the same. Bull season will be year around, and cow elk season will be September 1 to December 31, no limit to how many elk a person may take. The rest of the state can go to permit only so our elk can be properly managed.
The problem with your theory is we, as Yakamas hunt most of the State. So your theory would not pan out like you envision it. Let's say you get it passed for the 300 units, we'll then I'd head to the blues or up towards Spokane or heck even the white river watershed area.
I'm not sure why you say Yakamas can hunt the whole state. You mean with a hunting license and tag, and following the same seasons and rules that we all do? Yes, that is true. But you surely aren't saying you can hunt the whole state under your non-seasons and non-regulations, and no limits, correct?
Here's a map of the ceded area which is where you are allowed to hunt:
I've posted it a ton of times on here and you've read them because you were apart of those posts but our areas are beyond that map. Our areas include rez, ceded and U & A. Forgive me (or not) of I don't repost it again or go into detail again.
Post by: KFhunter on April 28, 2017, 02:01:44 PM
I guess 30% of normal numbers, either that or they're split off and I'm only see part of the herd :dunno: I think they're just far fewer than normal.
Post by: Slamadoo on April 28, 2017, 05:44:04 PM
Post by: emac on April 28, 2017, 07:10:48 PM
I'm not sure elk numbers in the NE corner of the state are a good barometer of the overall health of elk herds statewide. I could be mistaken, but I don't think elk are the top priority in the NE corner of the state and increasing herd numbers is probably the opposite of what WDFW wants.No elk arent the top priority in the ne corner wolves are
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Post by: Slamadoo on April 28, 2017, 07:14:18 PM
Post by: Jpmiller on April 28, 2017, 07:17:55 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 28, 2017, 09:45:18 PM
I guess those in favor of s draw system could put their money where their mouth is and refrain from hunting elk two out of three years and see if that helps. Maybe herds and opportunities will get better and guys like me will finally see the light.
I think many of us already do refrain from hunting elk, and probably for more than just two out of three years. Lots of people buy the elk tag only so they can apply for a branch antler bull permit. Then they don't draw, and therefore they simply don't hunt elk that year.
Post by: KFhunter on April 29, 2017, 08:53:50 AM
I want that screaming bull pizz'n on itself thrashing brush experience and I can't find it in the NE corner. They're silent, elusive and constantly pushed by wolves.
Post by: bearpaw on April 29, 2017, 09:38:15 AM
I guess those in favor of s draw system could put their money where their mouth is and refrain from hunting elk two out of three years and see if that helps. Maybe herds and opportunities will get better and guys like me will finally see the light.
I think many of us already do refrain from hunting elk, and probably for more than just two out of three years. Lots of people buy the elk tag only so they can apply for a branch antler bull permit. Then they don't draw, and therefore they simply don't hunt elk that year.
I fall into that category bobcat, I have no desire to hunt a spike bull, I'll wait for a chance at a big bull or hun t in another state, but I get to hunt all the time in multiple states, I would hate to see the guys who like to hunt elk every year in WA and can't afford interstate hunting to suddenly be unable to hunt elk in WA.
Even Utah which has half their state on draw tags and produces many more trophy elk than WA has half the state on over the counter tags so everyone can go elk hunting if they want. The biggest difference I see in Utah is that their management is much better, when the herd in any unit dips they reduce tag numbers, when numbers get above objective they increase tags, tag numbers change every year, depending on herd status. They even revise objectives at times when they feel a unit can handle more elk, and lastly they aggressively manage predators and work to increase hunted species for hunters.
I would like to see WA make a few more limited entry areas, maybe one or two in the NE corner too. Mostly we need some predator management and some habitat improvement projects, not just bans on what recreationists can do under the phony guise of habitat improvement. But WDFW will likely never do that, poor excuse for an agency serving hunters.
Post by: eastfork on April 30, 2017, 09:05:15 AM
Post by: eastfork on April 30, 2017, 09:18:57 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 30, 2017, 01:25:09 PM