Should ALL general season Elk hunts be canceled in favor of permit only hunting?

[bobcat]

I'm not in favor of draw only seasons but I keep seeing NV and UT being held up as examples of successes and I thought they had significant tribal hunting there as well? Am I misinformed or is something going on here that's not going on elsewhere?

I don't know this is 100% correct, but I'm under the impression that in other states tribal members hunt mostly on their own reservations. Apparently they are able to properly manage their wildlife and they don't need to go elsewhere to find good hunting. Or maybe they're required to follow the same seasons and regulations, and purchase the same hunting licenses that we do if hunting off reservation. I really don't know, but I agree with you in that it doesn't seem like other states have the same issues that we do.

[Skyvalhunter]

And if they don't have the same issues was this because of the Bolt decision?

[dvolmer]

A  lot of good ideas on this post going on both sides for and against.  But the fact is clear, there will be no changes to the system because the system isn't based on quality hunting or any other thing for that matter.  it is based solely on revenue to the state!  The system now with all of its glory and all of the special hunt categories and permits is made to produce revenue and I mean LOTS of revenue.  Not revenue for hunting but revenue for social programs and the general fund.  Those behind it all care nothing about your personal hunt experience no matter what you want it to be.  Oh, the biologists and game dept folks might be but their hands are tied in most cases when it comes to affecting revenue.   If you get what you want with the system that is in place now they are ok with that but its all about the money.  If it wasn't, this state would be trying to outlaw evil hunting like nothing you could imagine.  To the everyday Washington state Liberal, hunting is a necessary evil that must be tolerated because of the big bucks it brings in.  Oh, and by the way, the big bucks I'm talking about aren't animals with horns!  Its the green folding kind!  Wish for what ever system you want to but it just aint going to change.  I don't mean to be sarcastic, its just a simple fact.  I guess we have to make the best of what we have but it is slowly going to die as our kids (in general) aren't being introduced to hunting like the kids in the past.  A few are but its the exception not the norm.  Access diminishes and license prices go through the roof.  Its a sad scenario.  The cost for my instate licenses here in Washington are approaching my costs for out of state non- resident licenses.  I guess Im just an old realist so don't mind me!  Happy Hunting to all!!

[WAcoueshunter]

A  lot of good ideas on this post going on both sides for and against.  But the fact is clear, there will be no changes to the system because the system isn't based on quality hunting or any other thing for that matter.  it is based solely on revenue to the state!  The system now with all of its glory and all of the special hunt categories and permits is made to produce revenue and I mean LOTS of revenue.  Not revenue for hunting but revenue for social programs and the general fund.  Those behind it all care nothing about your personal hunt experience no matter what you want it to be.  Oh, the biologists and game dept folks might be but their hands are tied in most cases when it comes to affecting revenue.   If you get what you want with the system that is in place now they are ok with that but its all about the money.  If it wasn't, this state would be trying to outlaw evil hunting like nothing you could imagine.  To the everyday Washington state Liberal, hunting is a necessary evil that must be tolerated because of the big bucks it brings in.  Oh, and by the way, the big bucks I'm talking about aren't animals with horns!  Its the green folding kind!  Wish for what ever system you want to but it just aint going to change.  I don't mean to be sarcastic, its just a simple fact.  I guess we have to make the best of what we have but it is slowly going to die as our kids (in general) aren't being introduced to hunting like the kids in the past.  A few are but its the exception not the norm.  Access diminishes and license prices go through the roof.  Its a sad scenario.  The cost for my instate licenses here in Washington are approaching my costs for out of state non- resident licenses.  I guess Im just an old realist so don't mind me!  Happy Hunting to all!!

Forcing everyone to apply, even for hunts with 100% draw odds, would raise more $$.  Otherwise, people can just buy their tag OTC and not pay the extra $6 to apply.  I don't see your point. 

[dvolmer]

The State would loose a bunch of hunters who would not be willing to play if you might call it that in the new system.  They are maximizing their revenue now.  going to a permit only system would overall decrease licenses sold.  Don't get me wrong, I would love a permit only system in our state for elk.  Its just never going to happen.  Right now you are applying for Quality elk, Bull elk, antlerless elk, and so on.  in a permit only system you would only be applying for one.  But the huge number of hunters who would just flat give up on the system would be the killer for them.  there are a lot of hunters that are just a hair from pulling the plug on the whole system.  This would put them over the top.

[WAcoueshunter]

In a permit only system you would only be applying for one.

No reason you need to overhaul the whole system, all that would need happen is the OTC hunts would become part of the Buck or Bull categories.  All the other categories that are already permit only could stay the same.  Utah does it this way - you have one draw for a general buck tag, and then there is a separate draw for limited entry buck tags. 

There are a lot of hunters that are just a hair from pulling the plug on the whole system.  This would put them over the top.

I find it hard to believe that many hunters would pull the plug simply because the draw system got tweaked.  I think it more likely that part-time hunters might not participate because permits allocated to certain overcrowded spots (e.g., Colockum for elk, Methow or Entiat for deer) might not be enough to fully meet demand, and they may have to find a new spot.  They might have a better experience elsewhere, but having to learn a new spot would be too much.  On the flipside, you might have people opting back in if the pumpkin patch were better managed.  I know I didn't buy an elk tag for many years for that reason.  I'm sure others are in the same boat.

[chester]

In a permit only system you would only be applying for one.

No reason you need to overhaul the whole system, all that would need happen is the OTC hunts would become part of the Buck or Bull categories.  All the other categories that are already permit only could stay the same.  Utah does it this way - you have one draw for a general buck tag, and then there is a separate draw for limited entry buck tags. 

There are a lot of hunters that are just a hair from pulling the plug on the whole system.  This would put them over the top.

I find it hard to believe that many hunters would pull the plug simply because the draw system got tweaked.  I think it more likely that part-time hunters might not participate because permits allocated to certain overcrowded spots (e.g., Colockum for elk, Methow or Entiat for deer) might not be enough to fully meet demand, and they may have to find a new spot.  They might have a better experience elsewhere, but having to learn a new spot would be too much.  On the flipside, you might have people opting back in if the pumpkin patch were better managed.  I know I didn't buy an elk tag for many years for that reason.  I'm sure others are in the same boat.

It's not tweaking the draw system that would push them over the edge. It's the ELIMINATION OF OTC that would. Also I don't know anyone who would be happy paying another $6 per species on top of already incredibly high resident prices.

[dvolmer]

That is correct.  The taking away of the over the counter license would send enough people in this state to the retirement life when it comes to hunting.  Now with that said, I would love to see our state have a permit only elk hunt.  But in all other states that I hunt in, your second and third choices mean absolutely nothing because its never drawn.  I could explain how that works but I don't want to type all day.  The fact is, we just have way way way more people in this state then in the other states we are comparing against.  Along with that, we have less access and smaller herds with more people wanting to hunt.  Its just a bad recipe all around.  If you want a quality hunt, then out of state is sadly where you have to go unless you have some private land you own or have access too that is above and beyond what the average Washington state elk hunter has.  That is why I hunt elk in Wyoming and Montana, and why I put in for big bull hunts here in this state hoping to draw some day.

[Skillet]

It is important to our political clout to keep as many people in the system as is possible.  You take away the prospect of the traditional annual family hunting camp and you are going to lose hunters.  Period.

This isn't about the money, it isn't about the size of the antlers, or the success rates.  It's about the heritage, experience of a father and son being in the woods on a hunt, the family tradition being passed down.  Go permit only and you will likely lose that connection.  Once there is a break in the family tradition of hunting, it is gone.  Look at the guys that come on here and say they want to try to start hunting elk in their 20's, 30's, and older.  It is a tough row to hoe, and I rarely see them back with success stories.

Let's not do this to our hunting heritage.  Leave it OTC for elk tags in general, and permit only for east side bull draws.

[bobcat]

I wonder if the elk hunting tradition in Oregon has been lost, since eastern Oregon modern firearm elk hunting has been permit only now for many years.

[Skillet]

Do you really wonder that?  Kind of a red herring bobcat, since most of the western OR tags are still OTC, and there is a spike-only OTC general rifle hunt in NE OR.

From their website:

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/big_game/elk/index.asp

Oregon’s elk are one of the most sought-after species for hunters and the second most popular game animal after deer. Rocky Mountain elk are found in eastern Oregon and Roosevelt elk are found in western Oregon, with most concentrated in the Coast, Cascade and Blue Mountain ranges. Both controlled (limited entry) and over-the-counter (general season) hunting opportunities are available for elk in Oregon.

Oregon’s big game are managed by wildlife management units, particularly for controlled hunts, so get familiar with the boundaries where you want to hunt. Hunters in Oregon can access millions of acres of public land open to hunting (national forests, BLM land, state forests, wildlife areas) plus many private lands open through Oregon’s Access and Habitat program. See www.oregonhuntingmap.com to find a place to hunt.

Oregon offers rifle, archery and muzzleloader hunts with some special hunts just for youth (age 17 and under). See the current Oregon Big Game Regulations for exact season dates and bag limits.

    Rifle hunting is general season in western Oregon for the most part, except for some coastal units where it’s controlled hunting. There is one week-long general season hunt with a spike only bag limit in parts of NE Oregon (Rocky Mt Elk 2nd season), but remaining eastern Oregon seasons are controlled. All the general rile elk seasons take place in October and November.
    Archery elk hunting is general season nearly statewide and coincides with general archery deer season. The bag limit is “one elk” in many units. It opens on a Saturday in late August and runs 30 days, ending on a Sunday in late September. Some controlled archery hunts are also available.
    Muzzleloader controlled hunts are available.
    New in 2016, a Premium Elk Hunt is available in almost all wildlife management units. Hunters who draw this special tag can hunt Sept. 1-Nov. 30."

[Bob33]

Well that explains it. Oregon has a general rile elk season, and Washington doesn't.

All the general rile elk seasons take place in October and November.

[Skillet]

lol, we've been doing it wrong all these years... much harder to get an elk with your rile, no matter how riled up you are. 

[bobcat]

Okay. So what about Arizona and Nevada?

[Karl Blanchard]

Okay. So what about Arizona and Nevada?

an elk tag in NV is darn near a unicorn.  10 year waiting period for you if you are lucky enough to draw.  Not sure what the waiting period on residents is though.