Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 14, 2017, 10:28:28 AM
I am in the market for a truck camper. I have a F250 and tow a 19' aluminium boat. (guessing around 3000lbs) I'm a little worried about adding camper to the mix. Some people I talk to say it'll be fine and others say I would be pushing it. Just curious if anyone else on here currently has a camper on an F250 and also tows a boat. If so what model camper, boat weight and how does it handle? Any pics of your set up? Thanks for any input!
Also looking for a camper if you got one to sell. Light weight for a 6.5 short bed. Something like a Lance 825.
Post by: Mudman on March 14, 2017, 11:14:45 AM
Post by: Miles on March 14, 2017, 11:27:27 AM
Post by: White Pass Outfitters on March 14, 2017, 11:32:53 AM
Post by: birddogdad on March 14, 2017, 11:49:09 AM
you can shore up your suspension if needed, airbags ect. Any 250 can hack towing unless it tired and old. Trailers are not that bad, boats are not either, till you get to a seagoing home and a 3 axle trailer~!
Post by: jpharcher on March 14, 2017, 12:11:37 PM
I agree that you will want to invest in some air bags and possibly refreshing the rear springs if they are sagging at all.
I had a place in Tacoma replace my spring packs on the rear and added a 6th leaf for my 350 with 7.3 and my Arctic fox 992 barely squats the truck.
Add the wife's horse trailer with animals around 5500 lbs and had no problems.
Post by: jackelope on March 14, 2017, 12:22:39 PM
How much does the camper weigh? You could be pushing 4k pounds with a camper pretty easy.
How much does the boat weigh?
There's not really an accurate way to answer the questions without having the specifics.
Post by: Miles on March 14, 2017, 12:31:46 PM
What year is the truck and what engine/powertrain?
There's not really an accurate way to answer the questions without having the specifics.
:yeah:
2wd/4wd, quad cab vs extended cab or single cab, long bed/short bed all come into play when figuring the numbers. When we bought our fifth wheel, I spent quite a while researching numbers. One thing I learned is there are people out there who are severely overloaded. Lol. Air bags aren't necessarily the best thing..
Post by: gottabite on March 14, 2017, 01:03:55 PM
Post by: syoungs on March 14, 2017, 01:40:17 PM
and f250 and f350 use the same components, with different spring packs, and sometimes rear springs, I always tried to adhere to the listed limits of a f350 when I had mine, and always felt safe. it really depends on how big of a camper you go with, and how heavy it is. the newer hard sides are awfully heavy, and Id venture 50% of the trucks I see going down the road are way over the listed capacity, (8800 gvw for a f250 pre 05)
Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 14, 2017, 01:49:56 PM
If I am understanding my numbers correctly I would be over the total suggested cargo weight.
Heres what I got... I think. This is all fairly new to me.
2009 F250 5.4L. (only 44,000 miles)
GVWR = 9400
Cargo Weight = 2021
Lets say the boat weighs around 3000lbs. (I need to get it weighed) 19' aluminium with 150 outboard and 9hp kicker.
So lets take the lower end of tongue weight of 10% = 300lbs
Take that away from the cargo weight and that only leaves me 1721 for all cargo.
One of the lightest campers I can find is a lance 825 and the dry weight is 1832. (2150 Wet)
So that alone would put me at 2132lbs. Now add fuel, water, gear, a wife and two toddlers. I think they say add 1000lbs for this stuff. So we are looking at 3132 ish.
So even if I didn't have the boat I would be over. The funny thing about the lance 825 (and other camper brands lightweights) is they advertise it for 1/2 ton trucks like the F150/1500. And the ford specs don't support that weight. So it appears to me that the camper brands don't really go off of the truck specs.
I am starting to ramble... :)
Anyways, am I understanding all of this correctly? And is it acceptable or regularly done to go above the vehicles cargo weight with in reason?
I also know I will be crawling over the pass with the 5.4L.
Post by: jackelope on March 14, 2017, 01:58:45 PM
Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 14, 2017, 02:01:47 PM
https://www.fleet.ford.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/towingguides/09RVTTguide.pdf
Yep. That's where I got my numbers. Am I understanding it all?
Thanks
Post by: Miles on March 14, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
We had to rule out multiple fifth wheel rv's because of weight alone. Most of the time it was the hitch/pin weight that got us.
Post by: Skillet on March 14, 2017, 02:17:30 PM
Put 3000# of weight in the bed and go tow your boat. See how it feels. Imagine more windage, and a higher center of gravity. If comfortable, pull the trigger. If you feel like you need more stability, you really should be looking for a dually.
I think you'll be just fine, tho.
Post by: Mudman on March 14, 2017, 02:25:15 PM
Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 14, 2017, 02:30:10 PM
Technically, I'd say you are spot on. Practically, however, I would have absolutely no problem hauling the weight of that 825 and towing your boat if I were you. Unless things changed between when I bought my 06 and your 09, you have exactly the same brakes, chsssis and suspension (minus a 4" block) as an SRW diesel F350. As mentioned before, there are thousands of examples on the road doing exactly what you are looking to do.
Put 3000# of weight in the bed and go tow your boat. See how it feels. Imagine more windage, and a higher center of gravity. If comfortable, pull the trigger. If you feel like you need more stability, you really should be looking for a dually.
I think you'll be just fine, tho.
Thanks Skillet and everyone else that gave me some input! Being new to this hole camper thing (not towing) and total payload can be a little overwhelming. I don't want to put my family or other motorist in danger because I didn't do my due diligence.
Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 14, 2017, 02:31:12 PM
Yes #'s seem correct, don't do it!!!!!!!! Now the real world, Skillet is right, try it, bag it if needed and rock on. We all know your truck can pull a boat and have a small camper too. Some of the regs aren't real world and more of a product of liability issues. Truth is if everyone followed guidelines most all 1/2 tons would be empty! Use your judgement but I will say I would do it and have probably done worse... Be safe, use good equipment and enjoy. Critics-Flame on! :chuckle:
Thanks man!
Post by: Igor on March 14, 2017, 05:24:03 PM
I don't want to put my family or other motorist in danger because I didn't do my due diligence.
That is the bottom line. You are to be commended for doing your due diligence, and not relying on the input from someone who has no skin in the game, so to speak. Good job !!!
Post by: MIKEXRAY on March 14, 2017, 05:46:48 PM
Post by: simondude on March 14, 2017, 06:36:25 PM
Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 14, 2017, 07:29:57 PM
Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 14, 2017, 07:30:34 PM
I don't want to put my family or other motorist in danger because I didn't do my due diligence.
That is the bottom line. You are to be commended for doing your due diligence, and not relying on the input from someone who has no skin in the game, so to speak. Good job !!!
Thanks!
Post by: horsehunter509 on March 14, 2017, 08:32:16 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 14, 2017, 11:04:00 PM
Post by: BDildine on March 14, 2017, 11:47:34 PM
One thing i didnt see mentioned yet is make sure you have good 10 ply tires and keep your air pressure where it should be and that will help a lot.
^^^^Yes! Tires play an important role. Make sure they are up to par.
Post by: Fastass350 on March 15, 2017, 12:08:14 AM
Post by: Rick on March 15, 2017, 06:55:17 AM
Post by: brush hunter on March 15, 2017, 07:27:58 AM
Unfortunately I have the 5.4L gas engine. Which according to Ford Specs can haul more cargo weight compared to the diesel 6.4L. (heavy engine)I wouldn't do it, you can use air bags and they will level you out. Your engine will not like it and your transmission will let you know it's a bad idea. Now for the safety issue, you won't have enough breaking to stop safely.
If I am understanding my numbers correctly I would be over the total suggested cargo weight.
Heres what I got... I think. This is all fairly new to me.
2009 F250 5.4L. (only 44,000 miles)
GVWR = 9400
Cargo Weight = 2021
Lets say the boat weighs around 3000lbs. (I need to get it weighed) 19' aluminium with 150 outboard and 9hp kicker.
So lets take the lower end of tongue weight of 10% = 300lbs
Take that away from the cargo weight and that only leaves me 1721 for all cargo.
One of the lightest campers I can find is a lance 825 and the dry weight is 1832. (2150 Wet)
So that alone would put me at 2132lbs. Now add fuel, water, gear, a wife and two toddlers. I think they say add 1000lbs for this stuff. So we are looking at 3132 ish.
So even if I didn't have the boat I would be over. The funny thing about the lance 825 (and other camper brands lightweights) is they advertise it for 1/2 ton trucks like the F150/1500. And the ford specs don't support that weight. So it appears to me that the camper brands don't really go off of the truck specs.
I am starting to ramble... :)
Anyways, am I understanding all of this correctly? And is it acceptable or regularly done to go above the vehicles cargo weight with in reason?
I also know I will be crawling over the pass with the 5.4L.
Post by: Mudman on March 15, 2017, 09:20:30 AM
Post by: Skillet on March 15, 2017, 10:25:53 AM
F250 Superduty is equipped for work. Better brakes, stronger axles, Trans coolers etc. it should be set up for work. Granted engine is going to grunt. It isn't a souped up half ton like a chevy! Heck I bet it has disk brakes on the rear too! :chuckle:
Agree 100% with mudman. It is ready to work, and it does have disc brakes on all corners. Yes, that 5.4 will wheeze a bit on long pulls, but who cares? Find the sweet spot in the torque curve and settle in for the hill climb. For any pass you'll be pulling in Washington, you'll get there a few minutes slower than a diesel dually, tops.
If a guy refused to use the tiniest shred of common sense by driving his fully loaded/trailered up truck the same way he drives his completely empty truck, then I suppose the mfg's weight ratings should be considered the bible. But I have a very hard time believing that the fact he has a 2" spacer block instead of a 4" spacer block over his rear axle (the ONLY difference between similarly equipped 2009 F250 and F350's) will cause death and destruction on the freeway when loaded slightly above the hyper-conservative spec's the lawyers make Ford publish. And if a guy airbagged his F250, he's a long way better equipped to deal with the load than a non-airbagged F350.
I regularly tow, and often over my weight limit with my truck. Sometimes way over my weight limit. I did upgrade from the factory receiver hitch to a Curt HD+ 12K receiver hitch, but that was probably not necessary. Truck does just fine with a little bit of common sense in driving fully loaded.
Too many guys are way too committed to the sticker on the door, and not enough to common sense when loading up a truck/trailer combo. You can set up a very dangerous load without going over the ratings. The load the OP is describing, however, is well within the practical limits of his truck's capabilities - if not exactly kosher by the door sticker.
I'd do it all day long.
Post by: Special T on March 15, 2017, 10:42:42 AM
Cannot be done? Yes. Does it have a Cost? Yes.
Anyone who has put their vehicle to the test limits and beyond can tell you that more can and does go wrong at the razors edge. Tires fail more, there is more wear and tear, and when there is a problem its bigger and more expensive than if you were empty.
If you are a regular maintainer/preventative maintenance kind of guy there won't be many problems provided your not doing 80 on the down hill side of the pass.
Most people don't prepare and compensate for the different loads. Most learn the hard way from an expensive blow out or not checking brakes, bearings or tires regularly.
Post by: syoungs on March 15, 2017, 10:43:48 AM
Unfortunately I have the 5.4L gas engine. Which according to Ford Specs can haul more cargo weight compared to the diesel 6.4L. (heavy engine)I wouldn't do it, you can use air bags and they will level you out. Your engine will not like it and your transmission will let you know it's a bad idea. Now for the safety issue, you won't have enough breaking to stop safely.
If I am understanding my numbers correctly I would be over the total suggested cargo weight.
Heres what I got... I think. This is all fairly new to me.
2009 F250 5.4L. (only 44,000 miles)
GVWR = 9400
Cargo Weight = 2021
Lets say the boat weighs around 3000lbs. (I need to get it weighed) 19' aluminium with 150 outboard and 9hp kicker.
So lets take the lower end of tongue weight of 10% = 300lbs
Take that away from the cargo weight and that only leaves me 1721 for all cargo.
One of the lightest campers I can find is a lance 825 and the dry weight is 1832. (2150 Wet)
So that alone would put me at 2132lbs. Now add fuel, water, gear, a wife and two toddlers. I think they say add 1000lbs for this stuff. So we are looking at 3132 ish.
So even if I didn't have the boat I would be over. The funny thing about the lance 825 (and other camper brands lightweights) is they advertise it for 1/2 ton trucks like the F150/1500. And the ford specs don't support that weight. So it appears to me that the camper brands don't really go off of the truck specs.
I am starting to ramble... :)
Anyways, am I understanding all of this correctly? And is it acceptable or regularly done to go above the vehicles cargo weight with in reason?
I also know I will be crawling over the pass with the 5.4L.
that's not that much weight hes talking about, would you say the same thing if he said he was going to pull a 25' travel trailer with it?
your not gonna set the cruise at 75 grossing 25K and get 33mpg like the Cummins guys do (tongue in cheek), but youll be able to pull any pass around, itll make a serviceable rig for sure, Ive done it with the 5.4, but the older 2v not as much power version. just remember if you start getting frustrated with pulling power, how much more you would have to invest in a new finicky diesel to go faster. not worth it imho.
Post by: Skillet on March 15, 2017, 10:58:27 AM
Most people don't prepare and compensate for the different loads. Most learn the hard way from an expensive blow out or not checking brakes, bearings or tires regularly.
You're probably right, but that boggles my mind.
Post by: Special T on March 15, 2017, 11:08:37 AM
It's always the case with those who are new to RVing be it trailers, campers, or motor homes. They don't have enough experience as to what they should be paying attention to or scared of.Most people don't prepare and compensate for the different loads. Most learn the hard way from an expensive blow out or not checking brakes, bearings or tires regularly.
You're probably right, but that boggles my mind.
Most learn pretty quick after a near death experience...
How many boat trailers you see peopled up with firewood on the pass while the owner is looking for some bearings? Amazing what an inspection and some grease can accomplish!
Post by: bullfisher on March 15, 2017, 11:19:48 AM
Post by: Skillet on March 15, 2017, 11:27:43 AM
Exactly like jjdavis is doing. :tup:
Post by: Special T on March 15, 2017, 12:35:43 PM
I can tell you may favorite upgrade has been to commercial 19.5 tires and wheels I currently runn8R19.5 and 245/70r19.5 on my dually one tons. I know several people that run the 245s during camping season. They can be had used cheap can be capped up reasonable and have a 5klb carry capacity. So even if the tire is old beat up etc your not likely to excess 70% of its load capacity. You should be able to purchase a set of 4 tires and wheels for less than $2K
Post by: demontang on March 15, 2017, 01:05:25 PM
Post by: Skillet on March 15, 2017, 01:08:03 PM
Post by: jjdavis2222 on March 15, 2017, 01:16:02 PM
I'll update the thread with a pic of the complete set up once I find a camper. Hopefully by summer I'll be ready to roll. It sure will be nice to go on our fishing/boating trips and not have to tent it!
If anyone has any leads on a good lightweight camper for a short box let me know.
Post by: demontang on March 15, 2017, 01:41:20 PM
Post by: Special T on March 15, 2017, 02:15:18 PM
Truck is 2000 7.3 ext cabIf it's a stick probably one of the best vintages.
Post by: demontang on March 15, 2017, 05:48:00 PM
Post by: Mudman on March 15, 2017, 06:24:21 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 15, 2017, 10:39:44 PM
Post by: demontang on March 16, 2017, 06:32:27 AM
Post by: gasman on March 16, 2017, 07:48:13 AM
One thing to keep in mind, Lance campers are about the heaviest campers on the market. There are many more campers out there that are lighter weight than the Lance. Had a conversation just the other day with Mike Lentz and he would not own a camper built by Lance unless it was a complete rebuild by him. His opinion is that the craftsmanship on the Lance campers are crap, he sees it every time he gets into one to do any type of repair.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 16, 2017, 09:30:10 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 16, 2017, 09:33:56 AM
I can believe anyone who has a heavy truck says no to bags. That is mind blowing to me after putting them on the 03 2500. Hell, empty it rides far better and loaded it feels safe when you hit the whoops and bumps on the highway. Before the thing would bottom out.
Post by: Mudman on March 16, 2017, 04:47:39 PM
You know you're not supposed to ride your foot through the first and second gear shifts? Lol.... Still on my original tranny. 260k. Worked hard regularly. I always let off the gas and let the truck shift when under a load and ease back into the throttle. Lots of guys just put their foot on the floor. Equivalent of dropping the clutch every shift in a manual.My ford trans went on Tiger pulling a 30' TT loaded with living in it crap. Pretty heavy, maybe 9500lb?? I was locked in drive and decided to roll into the throttle to see what she had left. She had plenty and slipped bad around 2600rpm spooled up. Still worked fine but under load would slip so its days were #. 90k on it with upgraded clutches and billet single torque conv. and all the ford crap valves upgraded. Steel slides in aluminum valve body oblongs and sticks. Crap designs. Plastic OD-crap. 4r100 is garbage.
Post by: Miles on March 16, 2017, 05:54:49 PM
Air bags... Keep saying it. Level ride or not they are nice. I put them on the 2500 before adding the dog box. (full chassis mount 6 hole w 50gallon water on board). Took out that annoying Chevy spring slap. Chevys ride nice cause their springs are so damn wimpy. Bags fixed it and helps with sway and shock absorbing.
I can believe anyone who has a heavy truck says no to bags. That is mind blowing to me after putting them on the 03 2500. Hell, empty it rides far better and loaded it feels safe when you hit the whoops and bumps on the highway. Before the thing would bottom out.
I have a good friend who had a chevy 2500 hd gasser. He put air bags on and even with 5 psi in each bag my vertebrae would compress after hitting a crack in the road. We crossed hwy 2 on hayford by the casino in airway heights and almost all hit the roof at 45mph because of the dip. Ever since then I haven't been too impressed by air bags.
Post by: HntnFsh on March 16, 2017, 06:50:16 PM
Air bags... Keep saying it. Level ride or not they are nice. I put them on the 2500 before adding the dog box. (full chassis mount 6 hole w 50gallon water on board). Took out that annoying Chevy spring slap. Chevys ride nice cause their springs are so damn wimpy. Bags fixed it and helps with sway and shock absorbing.
I can believe anyone who has a heavy truck says no to bags. That is mind blowing to me after putting them on the 03 2500. Hell, empty it rides far better and loaded it feels safe when you hit the whoops and bumps on the highway. Before the thing would bottom out.
I have a good friend who had a chevy 2500 hd gasser. He put air bags on and even with 5 psi in each bag my vertebrae would compress after hitting a crack in the road. We crossed hwy 2 on hayford by the casino in airway heights and almost all hit the roof at 45mph because of the dip. Ever since then I haven't been too impressed by air bags.
Its something other than the air bags then. You shouldn't even notice they are there with only 5 PSI. Did he have a lift or something?
Post by: aaronoto on March 16, 2017, 07:16:01 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 16, 2017, 10:40:43 PM
Air bags... Keep saying it. Level ride or not they are nice. I put them on the 2500 before adding the dog box. (full chassis mount 6 hole w 50gallon water on board). Took out that annoying Chevy spring slap. Chevys ride nice cause their springs are so damn wimpy. Bags fixed it and helps with sway and shock absorbing.
I can believe anyone who has a heavy truck says no to bags. That is mind blowing to me after putting them on the 03 2500. Hell, empty it rides far better and loaded it feels safe when you hit the whoops and bumps on the highway. Before the thing would bottom out.
I have a good friend who had a chevy 2500 hd gasser. He put air bags on and even with 5 psi in each bag my vertebrae would compress after hitting a crack in the road. We crossed hwy 2 on hayford by the casino in airway heights and almost all hit the roof at 45mph because of the dip. Ever since then I haven't been too impressed by air bags.
Wow...im running 70lbs w dog box and it still bounces like a carnival ride. Never heard of a Chevy with a stiff suspension. 5lbs? That's like, less than a huffy bike pressure.
Post by: Miles on March 17, 2017, 06:33:56 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 17, 2017, 07:29:09 AM
Post by: MADMAX on March 17, 2017, 07:32:51 AM
I used to run 40 in my ford when hauling
27ft TT, smooth and level
Post by: Miles on March 17, 2017, 07:39:52 AM
Probably the 6" lift. :) I'd say with 5lbs the bags are doing nothing but being there. You can't even ride a bicycle with 5psi.
Could be? It sure seemed to be worse after the addition of the bags though.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on March 17, 2017, 12:15:16 PM
Probably the 6" lift. :) I'd say with 5lbs the bags are doing nothing but being there. You can't even ride a bicycle with 5psi.
Could be? It sure seemed to be worse after the addition of the bags though.
I'm certain 5psi is not affecting it at all. Maybe 25-30 might start a little pressure on the spring pack but 5 barely keeps the bags located.
Post by: Buckmark on March 17, 2017, 12:43:18 PM
Here it is loaded down for hunting camp with 5 psi in each bag.. still stiff as could be. Maybe the type of air bag can make a difference?Geez the only thing missing is Granny in her rocker on top :chuckle:
Post by: Miles on March 17, 2017, 01:22:32 PM
Here it is loaded down for hunting camp with 5 psi in each bag.. still stiff as could be. Maybe the type of air bag can make a difference?Geez the only thing missing is Granny in her rocker on top :chuckle:
The Beverly hillbillies was mentioned more then once. The road gets too bad for a trailer and trucks were limited when myself and others flew in for a hunt. We made everything fit.
Two wall tents and camp for 7 days was all in the back of that truck.
Post by: Mudman on March 17, 2017, 02:01:09 PM