Post by: jrebel on April 16, 2017, 07:11:12 PM
Well, a couple weeks ago, I finally broke down and bought a Magnetospeed V3 to see what my muzzle velocities are.
This was the data with a 7 shots out of my .270 which, if I do my job, will shoot well under an inch groups.
Shot #1 2681
Shot #2 2733
Shot #3 2694
Shot #4 2719
Shot #5 2712
Shot #6 2750
Shot #7 2751
SD 26.7
Max Spread 70 fps
Average 2720
My question is....is this acceptable or can I tighten it up a little? What reccomendations would a person have to tighten this up without any major changes as the accuracy is there.
My .308 is quite a bit better
Shot #1 2778
Shot #2 2807
Shot #3 2805
Shot #4 2772
Shot #5 2804
Shot #6 2776
Shot #7 2789
SD 15.1
Max Spread 35
Average 2790
Post by: Duckslayer89 on April 16, 2017, 07:17:02 PM
So....I have been handloading for quite some time now and have never really paid that close attention to my muzzle volocity. I was always hand loading for hunting purposes and based my final load off of accuracy.
Well, a couple weeks ago, I finally broke down and bought a Magnetospeed V3 to see what my muzzle velocities are.
This was the data with a 7 shots out of my .270 which, if I do my job, will shoot well under an inch groups.
Shot #1 2681
Shot #2 2733
Shot #3 2694
Shot #4 2719
Shot #5 2712
Shot #6 2750
Shot #7 2751
SD 26.7
Max Spread 70 fps
Average 2720
My question is....is this acceptable or can I tighten it up a little? What reccomendations would a person have to tighten this up without any major changes as the accuracy is there.
My .308 is quite a bit better
Shot #1 2778
Shot #2 2807
Shot #3 2805
Shot #4 2772
Shot #5 2804
Shot #6 2776
Shot #7 2789
SD 15.1
Max Spread 35
Average 2790
My 308 only shot 2520 with a 165 grain bullet factory nosler trophy grade ammo 22 inch barrel
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 16, 2017, 07:25:48 PM
So, with your shots--what was the sequence like? Is first measured from cold/clean bore? Approximate same temp of barrel for each shot? A warmer cartridge gives higher pressure/velocity than a cooler identical one.
Post by: Jason on April 16, 2017, 07:32:40 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 16, 2017, 07:43:04 PM
So....I have been handloading for quite some time now and have never really paid that close attention to my muzzle volocity. I was always hand loading for hunting purposes and based my final load off of accuracy.
Well, a couple weeks ago, I finally broke down and bought a Magnetospeed V3 to see what my muzzle velocities are.
This was the data with a 7 shots out of my .270 which, if I do my job, will shoot well under an inch groups.
Shot #1 2681
Shot #2 2733
Shot #3 2694
Shot #4 2719
Shot #5 2712
Shot #6 2750
Shot #7 2751
SD 26.7
Max Spread 70 fps
Average 2720
My question is....is this acceptable or can I tighten it up a little? What reccomendations would a person have to tighten this up without any major changes as the accuracy is there.
My .308 is quite a bit better
Shot #1 2778
Shot #2 2807
Shot #3 2805
Shot #4 2772
Shot #5 2804
Shot #6 2776
Shot #7 2789
SD 15.1
Max Spread 35
Average 2790
My 308 only shot 2520 with a 165 grain bullet factory nosler trophy grade ammo 22 inch barrel
This is a Kimber Mountain Ascent and it hated 165/168 grain bullets but loved the 150 grain accubonds. It is quite the shooter....though I have to 100% due my job as it is such a light rifle. If I mess up just a little it really is magnified in the results.
Post by: jrebel on April 16, 2017, 07:45:15 PM
What are you using for a crimp die? I tightened up my velocity spread with the Lee factory crimp die.
I have never crimped my rifle bullets....maybe I should?? Does it make that big a difference?
Post by: jrebel on April 16, 2017, 07:48:34 PM
You could get more precise in your loading, sometimes that can help get a closer spread. Things like: Weighing and sorting the bullets right out of box (for example the box of Hornady 200 gr that I have consists of bullets from 197 gr to about 202 gr). Using all powder from one lot/container, or even trying to separate powder from within the container to get more similar grain sizes (like putting on the table near the tumbler--not on in right against; seems to work the larger grains up to the top). Brass prep. Etc.
So, with your shots--what was the sequence like? Is first measured from cold/clean bore? Approximate same temp of barrel for each shot? A warmer cartridge gives higher pressure/velocity than a cooler identical one.
Shto sequence with the .270 was 3 shot (10 seconds between shots)....Waited for barrel to cool and then shot 4 with 10 seoconds between. Was a little curious how the heated up barrel would react and I agree....appears the warmer barrel produced the highest volocities.
The .308 is a super light barrel and heats up fast. Did the same shot sequence to see if I could replicate the results and it didn't appear to effect it as much even though the barrel was heated up pretty good with the second shot volley.
Post by: Curly on April 16, 2017, 08:02:51 PM
H4831 or RL26 is probably where you want to be. :twocents:
Post by: jrebel on April 16, 2017, 08:08:20 PM
Must be 150 gr bullets in the 270.
H4831 or RL26 is probably where you want to be. :twocents:
Yes 150 grain partition being pushed by H4350. Not sure changing powder is the way I want to go based on my accuracy. Here is my 5 shot group (the flyer is my fault :chuckle:)
Post by: Duckslayer89 on April 16, 2017, 08:29:42 PM
So....I have been handloading for quite some time now and have never really paid that close attention to my muzzle volocity. I was always hand loading for hunting purposes and based my final load off of accuracy.
Well, a couple weeks ago, I finally broke down and bought a Magnetospeed V3 to see what my muzzle velocities are.
This was the data with a 7 shots out of my .270 which, if I do my job, will shoot well under an inch groups.
Shot #1 2681
Shot #2 2733
Shot #3 2694
Shot #4 2719
Shot #5 2712
Shot #6 2750
Shot #7 2751
SD 26.7
Max Spread 70 fps
Average 2720
My question is....is this acceptable or can I tighten it up a little? What reccomendations would a person have to tighten this up without any major changes as the accuracy is there.
My .308 is quite a bit better
Shot #1 2778
Shot #2 2807
Shot #3 2805
Shot #4 2772
Shot #5 2804
Shot #6 2776
Shot #7 2789
SD 15.1
Max Spread 35
Average 2790
My 308 only shot 2520 with a 165 grain bullet factory nosler trophy grade ammo 22 inch barrel
This is a Kimber Mountain Ascent and it hated 165/168 grain bullets but loved the 150 grain accubonds. It is quite the shooter....though I have to 100% due my job as it is such a light rifle. If I mess up just a little it really is magnified in the results.
That's what happens to me. If I mess up a tiny bit the bullet goes haywire. Frustrating. But off hand I took a shot at a steel target hit dead nuts where I was aiming. Sometimes I wonder if the bench messes me up.
Post by: b23 on April 16, 2017, 09:03:18 PM
Post by: jrebel on April 16, 2017, 09:10:32 PM
Do you keep track of how many times you reload a piece or brass? In that seven shot string, had every piece of brass been reloaded the same amount of times or were they a mix of different amounts of times they all had been loaded??
Haven't kept track.....All are under three times reloaded with most being second time as they were mostly factory loaded rounds to begin with.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 17, 2017, 08:48:08 AM
Post by: jrebel on April 17, 2017, 09:03:21 AM
The good news is you are on a node - but you knew that. With that deviation in speed having little impact on accuracy you are in the sweet spot. Watch temps. Are u sitting rounds out then putting in single just before shot? Or are they warming in mag? Loading to .1 grain accuracy?
I was placing 3 rounds in the mag. Is it better to have them out or in? I do load to +/- .1 grain, measuring every load with a lyman electric scale.
I am going back up today and will shoot one round, let cool for 3-5 minutes, shoot another, etc.... Little more time between shots. I was also going to buy a crimp die before I go back today. I want to crip 5 rounds and see what happens.
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 17, 2017, 11:45:47 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 17, 2017, 12:45:17 PM
Post by: Blacklab on April 17, 2017, 07:53:48 PM
Post by: high country on April 18, 2017, 08:49:49 PM
Reloder 26 will take you over the 3 grand mark.....it did for me. I was shoving 130's at 2900 and now 150 LRAB @3k on the nose with single digit spreads.
Post by: bobcat on April 18, 2017, 09:04:38 PM
Post by: bearpaw on April 20, 2017, 10:43:04 PM
The good news is you are on a node - but you knew that. With that deviation in speed having little impact on accuracy you are in the sweet spot. Watch temps. Are u sitting rounds out then putting in single just before shot? Or are they warming in mag? Loading to .1 grain accuracy?
I was placing 3 rounds in the mag. Is it better to have them out or in? I do load to +/- .1 grain, measuring every load with a lyman electric scale.
I am going back up today and will shoot one round, let cool for 3-5 minutes, shoot another, etc.... Little more time between shots. I was also going to buy a crimp die before I go back today. I want to crip 5 rounds and see what happens.
I've never crimped bullets either, I'm wondering if you found crimping to be more accurate?
Post by: high country on April 21, 2017, 02:08:13 AM
The good news is you are on a node - but you knew that. With that deviation in speed having little impact on accuracy you are in the sweet spot. Watch temps. Are u sitting rounds out then putting in single just before shot? Or are they warming in mag? Loading to .1 grain accuracy?
I was placing 3 rounds in the mag. Is it better to have them out or in? I do load to +/- .1 grain, measuring every load with a lyman electric scale.
I am going back up today and will shoot one round, let cool for 3-5 minutes, shoot another, etc.... Little more time between shots. I was also going to buy a crimp die before I go back today. I want to crip 5 rounds and see what happens.
I've never crimped bullets either, I'm wondering if you found crimping to be more accurate?
The good news is you are on a node - but you knew that. With that deviation in speed having little impact on accuracy you are in the sweet spot. Watch temps. Are u sitting rounds out then putting in single just before shot? Or are they warming in mag? Loading to .1 grain accuracy?
I was placing 3 rounds in the mag. Is it better to have them out or in? I do load to +/- .1 grain, measuring every load with a lyman electric scale.
I am going back up today and will shoot one round, let cool for 3-5 minutes, shoot another, etc.... Little more time between shots. I was also going to buy a crimp die before I go back today. I want to crip 5 rounds and see what happens.
I've never crimped bullets either, I'm wondering if you found crimping to be more accurate?
I struggled to get a known good shooting rifle to shoot a nosler lrab. After speaking with nosler tech it's a pretty common problem for that bullet with slow powders to have inconsistent dwell time in the throat.....Sometimes it glides through, sometimes it hangs for a moment and then takes off again after the case pressure builds.
Their advice was either find ways to increase the time between ignition and the bullet contacting the leade......more depth, crimp, hotter primers or faster powders.
I found that I can get that bullet to shoot well by using a faster powder. .....but I also took a 3" load down to .6" by seating deep and crimping.
While 99% of the time it's unnecessary to crimp a rifle load, there are times that it helps tremendously.
Post by: wsmnut on April 21, 2017, 06:03:21 AM
I don't really see the necessity for it myself.
Barrel temp is likely what is affecting your speed. It's hard to be patient when you are out at the range. Bring two rifles and alternate shooting them. Keeps one cooling and you shooting!
I have two .270's. One likes H4831, the other likes H4350. Your rifle clearly likes what you are doing. And H4350 is one of Hodgdon's extreme line which is noted to be less temperature sensitive.
Try your speed test again by going out to the range with an already fouled barrel.
You might find things settle down a bit.
Good Luck!
Post by: rudysts on April 22, 2017, 07:32:17 AM
1 Control of your neck tension, this can be done with a full length bushing die or neck bushing die.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/neck-tension-not-just-bushing-size/
2 Testing different primers. I have found in my non magnum rifles that CCI BR2 or the 200s gave me best results along with Federal gold medal match 210s with the magnums CCI 250
By using this method I have been able to reduce my ES down in to the low 20s and in to the teens and some times single digits.
I think the more important number is your SD (standard deviation) this should be single digit. but if you only shoot short range high ES won't matter they will still shoot tight but it will show up at longer ranges 300 plus yards.
I never saw the need to crimp a bullet on a bolt rifle, much better to use a bushing die http://www.whiddengunworks.com/standard-reloading-dies/ I think these are the best dies out there they also come with a shoulder bump gauge.
Post by: high country on April 22, 2017, 08:02:06 AM
Post by: jrebel on April 22, 2017, 08:05:30 AM
Post by: Blacklab on April 22, 2017, 05:46:26 PM
Post by: jrebel on May 03, 2017, 12:32:36 PM
I reloaded a few rounds using different primers. I was using Winghester LR primers for the original load. This last load I used Federal Magnum Rifle primers and hands down had the most consistant velocities.
5 Shot group...waiting 5-6 minutes between shots.
Min: 2686
Max: 2701
Average: 2693
ES: 15
SD: 5.6
One thing I did notice...the magnum primers are flattening out. They are not cratering and are not to concerning, but definitely appears to be highter pressures in causing flatter primers....at least compared to the LR primers. Didn't get any better velocities though so I can't imagine the pressures are that much higher. :dunno: Anyone have any imput?
Post by: bobcat on May 03, 2017, 12:42:13 PM
Post by: jrebel on May 03, 2017, 01:26:45 PM
I know velocity isn't everything but I wouldn't be happy getting less velocity with a 270 than you're getting with your 308. Yes your accuracy is good but why not have both? Like I said before I'm using Reloder 26 and getting 3100 fps with 140 grain Bergers. Most of the time it will put three shots almost in the same hole at 100 yards. For many years I had used H4831 with 140 or 150 grain bullets and always got between 2800 and 2900 fps.
I'm not sure less velocity with one caliber or another is reason to get me worked up. I like that both rifles are ballistically similar, it makes switching between the two very easy. I also don't shoot these guns beyond 400 yards so the difference in a couple hundred feet per second is negligable.
I have tried to push the limits of speed with this set up and it just doesn't like it. I have not tried other powders because I have so much H4350 and it has worked for so long. I guess in short, It works...so haven't considered changing bullets or powders. This combo has killed many of animal with excellent results.
Maybe I need to buy another .270 so I can work up a speedy load.....don't give me any excused to own another rifle. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on May 03, 2017, 01:55:03 PM
I'm loading my 338 Win Mag to only around 2,750 with 210 grain Partitions, and some may think that's too mild.
But that's the nice thing about handloading. You can tailor your loads to exactly what you want.
Post by: Biggerhammer on May 03, 2017, 07:23:44 PM
Post by: high country on May 03, 2017, 09:09:00 PM
Go with the .270 WSM, the .270 Win is a anemic slouch.🙃
Until reloder 26 is put into play.
Post by: jrebel on May 03, 2017, 09:19:39 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 03, 2017, 09:29:55 PM
Post by: jrebel on May 03, 2017, 09:31:52 PM
Post by: high country on May 04, 2017, 06:23:11 AM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on May 04, 2017, 07:01:59 AM
Post by: Curly on May 05, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
Post by: jrebel on May 09, 2017, 12:26:44 PM
One thing I am not crazy about....These loads will surely burn the barrel out significan't quicker as it heats up very quickly.
If I get a load that groups well, I will chrono them....I am sure they will be pushing 3K, which is very surprising to me.
Updates to come. :tup:
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 12:46:41 PM
I don't know if I mentioned my load before, but I used 61.2 grains with Berger 140 grain VLD's and got 3100 fps. This is with a Browning A bolt and 22 inch barrel.
Post by: jrebel on May 16, 2017, 09:47:47 PM
Post by: high country on May 17, 2017, 06:30:10 AM
Post by: CP on May 17, 2017, 06:40:55 AM
Well after multiple attempts and lots of tweeking, I cannot get rl26 to stabilize the 150 grain partitions. Best groups I could produce were 1.5". Being that I have started this journey and also that my other 6.5 creedmoor is shooting so well, I have decided to work with a few more loads. Next will be 140 grain bullets (vld hunters and accubonds). I will update as my progress goes for others that are looking accurate .270 loads. Worst case scenario I go back to my 150 grain partitions at 2700 fps. :tup:
1.5" is plenty accurate for a big game round.
Post by: jrebel on June 16, 2017, 08:40:46 PM
Series 12 Shots: 4
Min 2774 Max 2791
Avg 2781 S-D 7.9
ES 17
Series Shot Speed
12 1 2774 ft/s
12 2 2785 ft/s
12 3 2776 ft/s
12 4 2791 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 16, 2017, 09:57:53 PM
Post by: jrebel on June 16, 2017, 10:35:58 PM
What barrel length? That's right on par with 7x57 velocities with the same weight bullet.
22" barrel