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Community => Taxidermy & Scoring => Topic started by: Tbob on April 22, 2017, 01:06:17 PM


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Title: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Tbob on April 22, 2017, 01:06:17 PM
So I was helping a friend move a dresser to a friend of his place.. In this little old ladies garage is a crazy huge REAL rhino mount sitting there!! I was floored seeing this thing just sitting there! I started to look around and there was also a beautiful dall sheep mount just sitting in the floor!
   So I asked her about them and what she was doing with them? She said they were her late husbands mounts and she just needs to get rid of them sometime soon. I told her I'd love to be in line if she wants them gone! She said she'd do some thinking and get back to me..
   Can I even legally have a rhino mount? Not sure how this works.. I was told she might not be able to sell it to me, but she could just gift it to me. Anyone know anything about this??
  Has anyone ever even seen a rhino mount?
   I'll attach a few pics too, but again, I was just floored and what is sitting around just collecting dust in a garage ..
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Bucks2Ducks on April 22, 2017, 01:12:02 PM
That would be an awesome mount to get!! If it was legally harvested I don't know why she couldn't sell the mount to you, but heck sounds like she would be willing to just gift it to you. You better scoop all those animals up and give them a happy home.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Mfowl on April 22, 2017, 01:13:30 PM
Wow! Those look great! I hope you get to bring them home. Maybe consult a taxi or federal Warden about the legality of the rhino.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: KFhunter on April 22, 2017, 01:33:18 PM
That's a black Rhino...I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Stickerbush on April 22, 2017, 03:08:39 PM
WOW, neat
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: jackelope on April 22, 2017, 03:13:39 PM
http://estatesales.org/university/guide-to-selling-taxidermy-at-estate-sales-and-auctions

Quote
The Endangered Species Act (ESA)

The Endangered Species Act affords protection to certain plant and animal species worldwide that are federally listed as “threatened” or “endangered.” This means you can’t sell these species or species parts at your estate sale, unless you can prove it’s an antique. (See ESA Antique Exception in the red box below for the rules on this, which may also apply to ivory). At the least, misdemeanor violations can be subject to up to $500, jail up to 6 months, or both. Felony violations can have fines up to $2,000, jail up to 2 years or both.

Find the full list of endangered species here, as well as the ability to search for your particular species in question.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/miami-wildlife-dealer-convicted-illegal-rhinoceros-trafficking-deal

Quote
Miami Wildlife Dealer Convicted In Illegal Rhinoceros Trafficking Deal










Wifredo A. Ferrer, United States Attorney for the Southern District of Florida, and Dan Ashe, Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) announced that Gene Harris, 76, of Miami, pled guilty yesterday to the sale and purchase of, the offer of sale and purchase of, and the intent to sell and purchase horns of a black rhinoceros (Diceros bicornis) with a market value in excess of $350.00, and to the transport, receipt, acquisition, and purchase of said wildlife, knowing that the wildlife was possessed, transported, and sold in violation of the Endangered Species Act, 16 U.S.C. '' 1538(a)(1)(E) and (F), and 1540(b), all in violation of 16 U.S.C. '' 3372(a)(1) and 3373(d)(1)(B); and 18 U.S.C. ' 2.

Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Skillet on April 22, 2017, 03:13:59 PM
That's a black Rhino...I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

 :yeah:

Very cool, but I'd be careful. If you ever needed to get rid of it, even to donate it, you might have some 'splainin to do.

ttp://www.fosters.com/article/20140930/GJNEWS_01/140939985 (http://ttp://www.fosters.com/article/20140930/GJNEWS_01/140939985)
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Tbob on April 22, 2017, 03:17:41 PM
Yeah, I guess if have to call a warden or something to check into it.. It's not like you could hide this thing! It's massive!
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Skillet on April 22, 2017, 03:17:58 PM
 :yike:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/why-does-a-rhino-horn-cost-300-000-because-vietnam-thinks-it-cures-cancer-and-hangovers/275881/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/05/why-does-a-rhino-horn-cost-300-000-because-vietnam-thinks-it-cures-cancer-and-hangovers/275881/)
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Tbob on April 22, 2017, 03:20:05 PM
She said it was taken a long time ago.. Not sure what that means, but I wonder if it would fall into the "antique" category?
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Reidus on April 22, 2017, 03:35:56 PM
Rhino horn is worth bukuu bucks on the black market. Probably not here so much but in Africa people wouldn't think twice about killing you for it.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 22, 2017, 03:48:10 PM
 :yeah: I watched a documentary about poaching in Africa and it's no joke there.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Humptulips on April 22, 2017, 05:31:20 PM
You need documentation of when and where it was taken. You should be good if it was legally taken prior to their listing on ESA.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 22, 2017, 05:38:30 PM
You seriously posted pictures of that on here? How about asking a hypothetical question instead of posting evidence.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: CLARKTAR on April 22, 2017, 07:43:57 PM
If you pass on it, let me know, I got a place for it..

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on April 22, 2017, 07:44:44 PM
And here we go.....^

Sweet mounts. Would be cool to find out the legalities of having/obtaining the rhino! Good luck to u, at the very least hope it ends up in an appreciative place.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: jrebel on April 22, 2017, 07:48:19 PM
If those mounts could talk....wish I had could have talked to the hunter before he passes, bet he had some cool hunting stories. 

Regardless of what happens, super cool you got to see these in person.  Thanks for sharing the pics.   :tup:
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: DaveMonti on April 22, 2017, 08:02:55 PM
:yeah: I watched a documentary about poaching in Africa and it's no joke there.

Recently, a rhino was killed in a French zoo at night and the horn was taken.  Several museums in Europe have been broken into and horns stolen.  It's a big, nasty, violent black market.  I'd very nervous about posting pictures of a horn anywhere, especially if it has a location tag on it.  I'd suggest taking this post down.

Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: JODakota on April 22, 2017, 08:39:58 PM
:yeah: I watched a documentary about poaching in Africa and it's no joke there.

Recently, a rhino was killed in a French zoo at night and the horn was taken.  Several museums in Europe have been broken into and horns stolen.  It's a big, nasty, violent black market.  I'd very nervous about posting pictures of a horn anywhere, especially if it has a location tag on it.  I'd suggest taking this post down.

That's a ridiculous request. No law has been broken. The OP just shared a mount of an animal that is no longer allowed to be taken. Would you say the same thing about a polar bear mount?
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Man Tracker on April 22, 2017, 08:40:46 PM
You might want to call US Fish and Wildlife Enforcement in Redmond and talk to a federal agent.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: DaveMonti on April 22, 2017, 09:00:28 PM
:yeah: I watched a documentary about poaching in Africa and it's no joke there.

Recently, a rhino was killed in a French zoo at night and the horn was taken.  Several museums in Europe have been broken into and horns stolen.  It's a big, nasty, violent black market.  I'd very nervous about posting pictures of a horn anywhere, especially if it has a location tag on it.  I'd suggest taking this post down.

If the polar bear had a rhino horn worth over $100,000 sticking out of it's head and the picture was tagged with a location, yeah, I would. 
That's a ridiculous request. No law has been broken. The OP just shared a mount of an animal that is no longer allowed to be taken. Would you say the same thing about a polar bear mount?
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: PastorJoel on April 22, 2017, 09:01:36 PM
:yeah: I watched a documentary about poaching in Africa and it's no joke there.

Recently, a rhino was killed in a French zoo at night and the horn was taken.  Several museums in Europe have been broken into and horns stolen.  It's a big, nasty, violent black market.  I'd very nervous about posting pictures of a horn anywhere, especially if it has a location tag on it.  I'd suggest taking this post down.

That's a ridiculous request. No law has been broken. The OP just shared a mount of an animal that is no longer allowed to be taken. Would you say the same thing about a polar bear mount?

His concern appears to be for their safety, not legality.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Reidus on April 22, 2017, 09:08:17 PM
:yeah: I watched a documentary about poaching in Africa and it's no joke there.

Recently, a rhino was killed in a French zoo at night and the horn was taken.  Several museums in Europe have been broken into and horns stolen.  It's a big, nasty, violent black market.  I'd very nervous about posting pictures of a horn anywhere, especially if it has a location tag on it.  I'd suggest taking this post down.

That's a ridiculous request. No law has been broken. The OP just shared a mount of an animal that is no longer allowed to be taken. Would you say the same thing about a polar bear mount?
Not about laws. Just like posting "i have $300k sittin in my garage and wondering what i should do with it?"

Here for it to be worth something there'd have to be a buyer and so on. Not an easy thing to smuggle around.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: DaveMonti on April 22, 2017, 09:09:35 PM
:yeah: I watched a documentary about poaching in Africa and it's no joke there.

Recently, a rhino was killed in a French zoo at night and the horn was taken.  Several museums in Europe have been broken into and horns stolen.  It's a big, nasty, violent black market.  I'd very nervous about posting pictures of a horn anywhere, especially if it has a location tag on it.  I'd suggest taking this post down.

That's a ridiculous request. No law has been broken. The OP just shared a mount of an animal that is no longer allowed to be taken. Would you say the same thing about a polar bear mount?

His concern appears to be for their safety, not legality.

Thanks Joel,

It's also a picture taken inside a private residence/garage of potentially very valuable property.  People make a big stink about not posting pictures of a dead deer or elk that someone else shot without having permission from the hunter, so how is this any different? 

Perhaps he does have permission from the owner, but I think it's highly unlikely that he asked an old lady if he can post her rhino on a hunting forum that he is a member of. 
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: j_h_nimrod on April 23, 2017, 12:20:19 AM
I saw some beautiful, very antique and legally obtained, ivory pieces in USFWS lockup because someone did not check a box or fill out the correct series of forms in triplicate. They were probably all crushed last year in the USFWS anti-ivory program. It was sad to see them sitting there with all the history, intrinsic beauty, and artistic appreciation of a regal trophy and know they were destined to be destroyed. It would be a shame to see this rhino go the same way.

I worked with a guy last year that had "taken" a rhino in the last few years. He used a tranquilizer gun and had to put up around $200k in bond in case it died on top of his ~$50k  hunt fee. The rhino was destined to be tranqued anyway for research and to be checked out by a vet.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: HntnFsh on April 23, 2017, 07:48:09 AM
It might be a good idea to do some research. Then have a nice talk with the lady about the ramifications of having such a mount. Or maybe talk to her first and see if she would want you to do some research about it. She may already have the answers. But I'm guessing she is clueless about it.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Rainier10 on April 23, 2017, 08:59:57 AM
Wow that is crazy. Looks like a decent set of elk antlers behind the rhino also.

I would make sure she is okay with you posting pics. I don't see any location data attached to that photo but I am sure there are people out there that would love to know the location of that and would do some bad things to get that horn.

Just my :twocents:
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Tbob on April 23, 2017, 09:04:27 AM
So just for the record I did ask if I could take a few pix of the rhino and I also asked if she minded If I shared the pic to get some info. She said she did not care. Sorry if I offended anybody by posting a picture of a mount..
    Can any of you tell me where exactly this rhino is located by the picture I posted? Can any of you even tell what state I'm currently in? Thanks for the safety concerns though..
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 23, 2017, 09:09:54 AM
Anyone can. I'm not on the computer, just my iPhone.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Wolfdog2314 on April 23, 2017, 09:39:05 AM
A buddy of mine just showed me how to find exactly where a photo was taken, with an iPhone. He pulled up an out of state hunting picture I sent him last season. He was able to see exactly where I killed a buck 1000 miles away via the location services. A game warden buddy of his showed him how to do it. Apparently how they catch some poachers.  I suggest everyone turn off their "sharing location services" before sending and posting pics. I had a little fun with it looking thru old messages, was able to find a buddy's turkey honey hole spot.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on April 23, 2017, 09:41:10 AM
Yeah this is old tech.  If your location services is off your good.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: jackelope on April 23, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
Location services were turned off when the rhino picture was taken.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: trophyhunt on April 23, 2017, 01:14:16 PM
That location thing sucks, how many guys have lost their honey holes because of that?  I never knew about this till just recently.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Tbob on April 24, 2017, 08:31:31 AM
Yep, no location services on my phone!
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Tbob on April 24, 2017, 08:35:42 AM
Update:
   She's decided to try and give the rhino to a museum of some type, although she said a few places said they could take it (as she has the proper legal paper work), but they said they would just destroy it. Not sure why, but that's what she was told. She is however going to gift me the dall sheep mount! I'm super stoked about this! I know it's not mine, but I'm happy that it will live on with someone who will appreciate what it took to get that thing off the mountain. She said it was taken in the early 60's. She has all the legal paper work for it as well. Super cool!
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2017, 08:43:18 AM
 :tup:

That's really unfortunate about the rhino. I suppose the museums that could afford to secure it (ie., large, metropolitan museums) are not into promoting hunting and trophy-style mounts, and the ones that would like it couldn't afford to pay for the security to keep the horn burglars from stealing it.

Catch 22
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Rainier10 on April 24, 2017, 08:57:25 AM
Thanks for the update and congrats on at least getting the sheep.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Bushcraft on April 24, 2017, 09:05:22 AM
If I were you, I would steer a very wide course around taking possession of that black rhino mount given the federal and now WA state laws on endangered species.  Nearly all "new" rhino taxidermy is reproduction, but I doubt that's the case here.

It sounds like she is open to the idea of donating it to a museum, which is a good thing since that is really the only option available.

Do you think she would be willing to work with SCI to have it gifted to the Washington State School for the Blind in Vancouver?

Here's a link to the venue:  http://www2.wssb.wa.gov/Content/oncampus/safari.asp

Let me know and I'll help you with the groundwork.

Allen
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Jpmiller on April 24, 2017, 09:13:50 AM
That's a bummer about the museum's, hopefully she can find one that will take it and display it, or maybe the zoo. Would look cool outside a rhino exhibit but might not fit with the theme.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: BD1 on April 24, 2017, 09:40:12 AM
Have her contact Woodland Park or Portland Metro Zoo
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Special T on April 24, 2017, 09:56:41 AM
Or how about SCI or some other hunting related organization?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2017, 10:42:55 AM
Or how about SCI or some other hunting related organization?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk




If I were you, I would steer a very wide course around taking possession of that black rhino mount given the federal and now WA state laws on endangered species.  Nearly all "new" rhino taxidermy is reproduction, but I doubt that's the case here.

It sounds like she is open to the idea of donating it to a museum, which is a good thing since that is really the only option available.

Do you think she would be willing to work with SCI to have it gifted to the Washington State School for the Blind in Vancouver?

Here's a link to the venue:  http://www2.wssb.wa.gov/Content/oncampus/safari.asp

Let me know and I'll help you with the groundwork.

Allen

Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2017, 10:54:33 AM
I don't understand the suggestion for the School for the Blind tie-in.  Seems totally random.  Coming from bushcraft, I tend to think it may be legit, but serious question -  Why would the SCI want to get involved to work towards that being the destination of the mount?   :dunno:
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: jackelope on April 24, 2017, 11:37:31 AM
I don't understand the suggestion for the School for the Blind tie-in.  Seems totally random.  Coming from bushcraft, I tend to think it may be legit, but serious question -  Why would the SCI want to get involved to work towards that being the destination of the mount?   :dunno:

Check the link he provided.

Sensory Safari

“A journey of sight through touch”

An exciting partnership of the Northwest Chapter of Safari Club International, Washington State School for the Blind, Washington School for the Blind Foundation, with special collaboration and involvement from U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has brought this new museum to Southwest Washington.

A unique opportunity in the form of a rare wildlife safari through the sense of touch, called the “Sensory Safari” Tactile Museum of Natural History, brings a new world of discovery not only to the blind, but to our full community. All animals are donated to enhance the education of wildlife conservation and are on permanent display providing a unique way to see wildlife through the sense of touch.

 The Tactile Museum of Natural History’s permanent display located on the Washington State School for the Blind (WSSB) campus at 2214 E. 13th St., Vancouver, Wash., is a one-of-a kind museum within the U.S. which incorporates sense of touch, Braille, large print and audio to provide an invigorating learning environment that can be enjoyed by all individuals.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: boneaddict on April 24, 2017, 11:56:17 AM
It sucks that everyone has to live their life in fear of either breaking the law or actually being victimized by real lawbreakers.

Cool mounts!
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2017, 11:58:49 AM
Wel, there ya go. Thanks for the clarification Jackelope.  Looks like a great idea. :tup:
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Skillet on April 24, 2017, 12:02:41 PM
It sucks that everyone has to live their life in fear of either breaking the law or actually being victimized by real lawbreakers.

Cool mounts!

It does suck.  But don't think for a second that the kind of money that this mount represents on the black market wouldn't attract a large amount of the wrong kind of attention.  I would not be surprised at all to find out that users with IP addy's in Africa and SE Asia are already watching this thread.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on April 24, 2017, 12:57:33 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if a game warden isn't already looking at this as well.   Sometimes you just need to keep things to yourself. 
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 24, 2017, 01:04:10 PM
I'd take it, looks like an awesome find.  If only I could be so lucky.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: Bushcraft on April 24, 2017, 03:55:17 PM
I don't understand the suggestion for the School for the Blind tie-in.  Seems totally random.  Coming from bushcraft, I tend to think it may be legit, but serious question -  Why would the SCI want to get involved to work towards that being the destination of the mount?   :dunno:

The issue at hand is that the taxidermy in question is from an ESA-listed species and as such cannot be sold, transferred, or otherwise gifted to another person. The only viable option for this lady is to gift it to a museum.  Per the OP, she has made contact with a few but has been told that it would likely be destroyed.  That would be shameful, to put it mildly.

The reason I mentioned the WA State School for the Blind's Sensory Safari Tactile Museum is that it would be an option, not only for the visually disabled who would otherwise never have the opportunity to fully comprehend the size and shape of a mature rhino (there are no petting zoos for black rhinos  :chuckle: ), but also the general public.  Better it go to a venue where we (SCI) can help educate people to the problem of poaching (and pay to have someone perform ongoing taxidermy maintenance), rather than it getting incinerated.

Did you watch the video?  If not, I recommend doing so.  Even better, you should go see it in person and watch the expressions of the visually impaired as they learn what a particular animal "looks" like when running their hands all over an exhibit while listening to the auditory supplements via provided headphones.  It's awesome and very fulfilling to be a part of an organization that does this as part of it's humanitarian outreach.  This is just another small, but important, example of all the stuff that SCI does for protecting hunting rights and wildlife conservation.

If you haven't joined SCI, let me know and I can point you to a chapter near you. www.sci-washington.com (http://www.sci-washington.com)

Best regards,

Allen
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: FC on April 24, 2017, 04:20:37 PM
Are you sure it can't be transferred? If there is good proof of date/time of origin I would think you would be fine or a museum wouldn't be able to take it either. I had a gf once that had an old seal pelt that was "sealed" prior to the ban on hunting them, she had gotten it from her grandfather after he died and everyone we talked to at the time said it was legal to own as it had solid proof of when and where it came from.
Title: Re: A real rhino mount!!!
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 24, 2017, 04:44:52 PM
So just for the record I did ask if I could take a few pix of the rhino and I also asked if she minded If I shared the pic to get some info. She said she did not care. Sorry if I offended anybody by posting a picture of a mount..
    Can any of you tell me where exactly this rhino is located by the picture I posted? Can any of you even tell what state I'm currently in? Thanks for the safety concerns though..

Timmy, this place is amazing..... keep stuff on the DL, make sure it's legal and your gtg.... there's a reason most don't post here anymore.....
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