Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 08, 2017, 08:41:24 PM
...Kill a deer in archery general season, then use a rifle for the 2nd deer modern permit?
2nd deer permit regs say "The second tag must be the same weapon choice as your first tag" ....but if you have a multi tag, you do not have to specify weapon for the tag. :dunno:
The letter that confirms you were successful in drawing a multi deer states "Your multi season tag can only be used during general seasons and in GMU's that are open during a modern, muzzy, archery general season for deer."
But the multi season permits regs state "You may apply for any weapon type special hunting permits"
So which is it?
Post by: mfswallace on May 08, 2017, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 08, 2017, 08:54:45 PM
Post by: ELKBURGER on May 09, 2017, 05:45:22 AM
Post by: Antlershed on May 09, 2017, 06:15:06 AM
I would think that you would be bound to the weapon type on the 2nd deer permit. Your general tag could be filled with the multi in any general season.... :dunno: :twocents::yeah: but I think you could apply for any of the weapon types for the second deer tag.
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 06:30:53 AM
Post by: Tbar on May 09, 2017, 06:47:27 AM
Post by: tonymiller7 on May 09, 2017, 06:54:26 AM
get drawn for archery use archery
get drawn for muzzy use a smokepole.
Pretty straight forward to me. Having a MS tag allows you to apply for all 3 variants of special applications.
Post by: Tbar on May 09, 2017, 07:21:48 AM
If u get drawn for modern rifle 2nd deer then use a rifle.The Hunts I mentioned are any weapon. So not really very straightforward.
get drawn for archery use archery
get drawn for muzzy use a smokepole.
Pretty straight forward to me. Having a MS tag allows you to apply for all 3 variants of special applications.
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 07:38:01 AM
What would your weapon requirement be on hunts 1400-1408?"Any". With a multi season permit you could use any weapon for those hunts.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 09, 2017, 07:51:34 AM
What would your weapon requirement be on hunts 1400-1408?"Any". With a multi season permit you could use any weapon for those hunts.
Are those hunts General season or permit ? If the multi can only be used for general season, as stated in the letter, then one should not be able to apply for special permits
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 09, 2017, 07:52:47 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 09, 2017, 07:55:44 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 08:19:22 AM
Post by: emac on May 09, 2017, 09:08:25 AM
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Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 09:12:35 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 09, 2017, 10:57:29 AM
2nd deer permits are weapon specific unless they say any weapon. And they also are date specific and gmu specific. So if i drew a 2nd deer tag for modern fire arm for nov 1 -12 i could only take my 2nd deer during that time bit could use any weapon since it is modern. Now if i drew an archery 2nd deer during sept. I would only be anle to take the 2nd deer during that season with archery equipment
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The issue is not with the weapon specific second tag, it is how this second tag affects the multi tag.
The multi tag allows you to apply for all permits all weapons, The drawing of a second deer permit should not re-strict or void the use of your multi.
If a person has a multi-deer and a 2nd tag for modern, then kills a buck archery, does this effectively void the second tag because it's modern ? OR A person kills their second dear modern first, that would restrict you to only using your multi for modern. Something doesn't sound right to me.
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 11:02:36 AM
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 11:10:37 AM
Nock Nock- it would make no difference which method a person uses to kill a deer with their multi season deer tag. How would that have any effect on their use of their second tag? They're totally separate. I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. :dunno:There is one effect that the multi-season permit has on a second deer tag in the 1400-1408 range. While a hunter with any deer tag can apply for these permits, the harvest must be made with the weapon of choice on the primary tag. Someone with an archery tag would have to use archery gear on one of these second deer permits. A hunter with a multi-season permit could use any weapon to harvest a second deer with a permit in the 1400-1408 range.
The second permit has no bearing at all on the primary permit.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on May 09, 2017, 11:12:27 AM
I would think that you would be bound to the weapon type on the 2nd deer permit. Your general tag could be filled with the multi in any general season.... :dunno: :twocents:
Second deer tags are drawing tags and weapon specific. Each special tag specifies which weapon you can use if you are drawn. Having a multi season tag allows you to apply for tags with any weapon, but once you are drawn for that tag, you have to hunt with the weapon you chose. You can't apply for an archery tag, then hunt it with a modern rifle.
Just like with a multi season tag, you can hunt any open season, but you must hunt with the weapon specified for that season. You can't go out in Sept in an archery unit and hunt with a modern firearm. You must hunt with a bow.
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 11:17:49 AM
Permits in the 1400-1408 range may be applied for by any primary tag holder: archery, muzzleloader, or modern. Because he has a multi-season permit, his primary tag is not weapon specific and therefore he could use any weapon for the second deer permit.I would think that you would be bound to the weapon type on the 2nd deer permit. Your general tag could be filled with the multi in any general season.... :dunno: :twocents:
Second deer tags are drawing tags and weapon specific. Each special tag specifies which weapon you can use if you are drawn. Having a multi season tag allows you to apply for tags with any weapon, but once you are drawn for that tag, you have to hunt with the weapon you chose. You can't apply for an archery tag, then hunt it with a modern rifle.
Just like with a multi season tag, you can hunt any open season, but you must hunt with the weapon specified for that season. You can't go out in Sept in an archery unit and hunt with a modern firearm. You must hunt with a bow.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on May 09, 2017, 11:17:58 AM
2nd deer permits are weapon specific unless they say any weapon. And they also are date specific and gmu specific. So if i drew a 2nd deer tag for modern fire arm for nov 1 -12 i could only take my 2nd deer during that time bit could use any weapon since it is modern. Now if i drew an archery 2nd deer during sept. I would only be anle to take the 2nd deer during that season with archery equipment
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It only affects which hunts you can apply for. With a modern tag you can only apply for a modern firearms draw or an any weapon draw. With an archery tag, you can only apply for an archery draw or an any weapon draw. With a muzzleloader tag, you can only apply for a muzzleloader draw or an any weapon draw. But with a multi season tag, you can apply for any draw. But you are restricted to the weapon listed in the hunt description.
The issue is not with the weapon specific second tag, it is how this second tag affects the multi tag.
The multi tag allows you to apply for all permits all weapons, The drawing of a second deer permit should not re-strict or void the use of your multi.
If a person has a multi-deer and a 2nd tag for modern, then kills a buck archery, does this effectively void the second tag because it's modern ? OR A person kills their second dear modern first, that would restrict you to only using your multi for modern. Something doesn't sound right to me.
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on May 09, 2017, 11:21:01 AM
Permits in the 1400-1408 range may be applied for by any primary tag holder: archery, muzzleloader, or modern. Because he has a multi-season permit, his primary tag is not weapon specific and therefore he could use any weapon for the second deer permit.I would think that you would be bound to the weapon type on the 2nd deer permit. Your general tag could be filled with the multi in any general season.... :dunno: :twocents:
Second deer tags are drawing tags and weapon specific. Each special tag specifies which weapon you can use if you are drawn. Having a multi season tag allows you to apply for tags with any weapon, but once you are drawn for that tag, you have to hunt with the weapon you chose. You can't apply for an archery tag, then hunt it with a modern rifle.
Just like with a multi season tag, you can hunt any open season, but you must hunt with the weapon specified for that season. You can't go out in Sept in an archery unit and hunt with a modern firearm. You must hunt with a bow.
Yes, because any weapon may apply for that tag. And the multi tag holder may use any weapon. But in weapon specific hunts, a multi season tag holder has to hunt with the specific weapon.
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 11:22:20 AM
Permits in the 1400-1408 range may be applied for by any primary tag holder: archery, muzzleloader, or modern. Because he has a multi-season permit, his primary tag is not weapon specific and therefore he could use any weapon for the second deer permit.I would think that you would be bound to the weapon type on the 2nd deer permit. Your general tag could be filled with the multi in any general season.... :dunno: :twocents:
Second deer tags are drawing tags and weapon specific. Each special tag specifies which weapon you can use if you are drawn. Having a multi season tag allows you to apply for tags with any weapon, but once you are drawn for that tag, you have to hunt with the weapon you chose. You can't apply for an archery tag, then hunt it with a modern rifle.
Just like with a multi season tag, you can hunt any open season, but you must hunt with the weapon specified for that season. You can't go out in Sept in an archery unit and hunt with a modern firearm. You must hunt with a bow.
Do you have personal experience with that or have you verified with the WDFW? What I'm not clear on is does the second tag then also say "Multi Season" on it? It seems to me that the person with a general multi season tag, who draws one of the 1400-1408 permits would be required to specify if they want an archery tag, muzzleloader, or modern firearm. :dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 11:25:10 AM
None of the second deer permits are "any weapon." What they are is- "you can apply with any tag." If you draw I'm not sure the tag you purchase will say "Multi Season" on it. I think you would need to choose one method for that second tag.The 1400-1408 range of permits can be applied for by any tag holder. The permit holder "May hunt only with the hunting
method in compliance with your tag." For a hunter with a multi-season permit that would allow the use of any method for the second deer permit.
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 11:37:20 AM
None of the second deer permits are "any weapon." What they are is- "you can apply with any tag." If you draw I'm not sure the tag you purchase will say "Multi Season" on it. I think you would need to choose one method for that second tag.The 1400-1408 range of permits can be applied for by any tag holder. The permit holder "May hunt only with the hunting
method in compliance with your tag." For a hunter with a multi-season permit that would allow the use of any method for the second deer permit.
It sure would seem that way but do you know for sure that the second tag purchased after drawing the permit will say "Multi season" on it?
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 09, 2017, 02:17:42 PM
Nock Nock- it would make no difference which method a person uses to kill a deer with their multi season deer tag. How would that have any effect on their use of their second tag? They're totally separate. I'm not really sure I understand what you're saying. :dunno:There is one effect that the multi-season permit has on a second deer tag in the 1400-1408 range. While a hunter with any deer tag can apply for these permits, the harvest must be made with the weapon of choice on the primary tag. Someone with an archery tag would have to use archery gear on one of these second deer permits. A hunter with a multi-season permit could use any weapon to harvest a second deer with a permit in the 1400-1408 range.
The second permit has no bearing at all on the primary permit.
This :yeah: is correct.
WDFW confirmed what I thought was the appropriate answer to my original question.
A multi tag holder can shoot a deer in archery season, with archery equip., tag it with their multi tag, and then if holding a 2nd deer modern tag/permit/, shoot a 2nd deer with modern equipment as long as they are hunting according to the specific 2nd tag restrictions (weapon and dates)
Page 26 of the regs says that "The second tag must be the same weapon choice as your first tag." This only applies to those hunters that do not possess a multi tag.......So for the 1400-1408 hunts, if drawn and no multi, you would have to hunt that permit with the same weapon as listed on your 1st tag.
As far as the Multi confirmation letter stating that multi only applies to general seasons........ well, we all know how good WDFW is at conveying correct and understandable language in a written form. :bash:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on May 09, 2017, 04:48:37 PM
So for the 1400-1408 hunts, if drawn and no multi, you would have to hunt that permit with the same weapon as listed on your 1st tag.
EXCEPT........... if your 1st tag is Modern Firearms, you can still hunt with any weapon.
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 06:22:53 PM
NOCK NOCK is correct. Without a multi-season permit, a modern firearm tag holder would not be able to hunt with any weapon for a second deer. He would have to hunt with a modern firearm.So for the 1400-1408 hunts, if drawn and no multi, you would have to hunt that permit with the same weapon as listed on your 1st tag.
EXCEPT........... if your 1st tag is Modern Firearms, you can still hunt with any weapon.
"You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag."
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 07:05:46 PM
NOCK NOCK is correct. Without a multi-season permit, a modern firearm tag holder would not be able to hunt with any weapon for a second deer. He would have to hunt with a modern firearm.So for the 1400-1408 hunts, if drawn and no multi, you would have to hunt that permit with the same weapon as listed on your 1st tag.
EXCEPT........... if your 1st tag is Modern Firearms, you can still hunt with any weapon.
"You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag."
But it's legal to hunt with a bow or a muzzleloader if you have a modern tag.
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 07:31:40 PM
In general seasons, yes. Permit hunts have some specific restrictions as in this case where the weapon used must match the tag.NOCK NOCK is correct. Without a multi-season permit, a modern firearm tag holder would not be able to hunt with any weapon for a second deer. He would have to hunt with a modern firearm.So for the 1400-1408 hunts, if drawn and no multi, you would have to hunt that permit with the same weapon as listed on your 1st tag.
EXCEPT........... if your 1st tag is Modern Firearms, you can still hunt with any weapon.
"You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag."
But it's legal to hunt with a bow or a muzzleloader if you have a modern tag.
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 07:47:17 PM
In general seasons, yes. Permit hunts have some specific restrictions as in this case where the weapon used must match the tag.NOCK NOCK is correct. Without a multi-season permit, a modern firearm tag holder would not be able to hunt with any weapon for a second deer. He would have to hunt with a modern firearm.So for the 1400-1408 hunts, if drawn and no multi, you would have to hunt that permit with the same weapon as listed on your 1st tag.
EXCEPT........... if your 1st tag is Modern Firearms, you can still hunt with any weapon.
"You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag."
But it's legal to hunt with a bow or a muzzleloader if you have a modern tag.
A bow or muzzleloader WOULD match a modern tag. Modern firearms, archery, and muzzleloaders are legal to use during modern firearm season. Is there a law that specifically says you can't use a bow or muzzleloader on a modern firearm permit hunt? If so, that's dumb.
Post by: Tbar on May 09, 2017, 07:51:46 PM
You must use the weapon that coincides with the draw tag.In general seasons, yes. Permit hunts have some specific restrictions as in this case where the weapon used must match the tag.NOCK NOCK is correct. Without a multi-season permit, a modern firearm tag holder would not be able to hunt with any weapon for a second deer. He would have to hunt with a modern firearm.So for the 1400-1408 hunts, if drawn and no multi, you would have to hunt that permit with the same weapon as listed on your 1st tag.
EXCEPT........... if your 1st tag is Modern Firearms, you can still hunt with any weapon.
"You may hunt only with the hunting method in compliance with your tag."
But it's legal to hunt with a bow or a muzzleloader if you have a modern tag.
A bow or muzzleloader WOULD match a modern tag. Modern firearms, archery, and muzzleloaders are legal to use during modern firearm season. Is there a law that specifically says you can't use a bow or muzzleloader on a modern firearm permit hunt? If so, that's dumb.
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 07:58:55 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20170510%2F0f16044fc50039d15e5e82a351816b49.jpg&hash=b81a9128a98bb881665f5ecc6b60c14a9536e05d)
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 08:18:22 PM
Okay, this seems to be going nowhere. How about a screenshot from the 2017 hunting regulations:That's for general seasons. Screenshot the second deer permit restrictions.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20170510%2F0f16044fc50039d15e5e82a351816b49.jpg&hash=b81a9128a98bb881665f5ecc6b60c14a9536e05d)
Post by: Tbar on May 09, 2017, 08:33:38 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 10:18:28 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 09, 2017, 10:33:40 PM
I see nothing there that says you can't hunt with a bow or muzzleloader. It says "you may only hunt with the hunting method in compliance with your tag." If you have a modern tag, using a modern rifle, a bow, or a muzzleloader IS in "compliance with your tag." JMO, that's how I read it. Pretty sure in this situation a warden wouldn't cite someone who decided to use a bow for their second deer tag even though their regular tag is for modern firearm.It is in compliance during a general season. That is the only place you find reference to modern tag holders being allowed to use archery or muzzleloader equipment. The special permits have a different WAC and different regulations. It is apparent that you either can't or won't see that.
I'm done.
Post by: bobcat on May 09, 2017, 10:46:52 PM
I see nothing there that says you can't hunt with a bow or muzzleloader. It says "you may only hunt with the hunting method in compliance with your tag." If you have a modern tag, using a modern rifle, a bow, or a muzzleloader IS in "compliance with your tag." JMO, that's how I read it. Pretty sure in this situation a warden wouldn't cite someone who decided to use a bow for their second deer tag even though their regular tag is for modern firearm.It is in compliance during a general season. That is the only place you find reference to modern tag holders being allowed to use archery or muzzleloader equipment. The special permits have a different WAC and different regulations. It is apparent that you either can't or won't see that.
I'm done.
Nope. I've tried and I've tried, and I just can't see it any other way than what I've already stated. I could be wrong but I doubt it. :chuckle:
Post by: Sitka_Blacktail on May 09, 2017, 11:58:48 PM
I see nothing there that says you can't hunt with a bow or muzzleloader. It says "you may only hunt with the hunting method in compliance with your tag." If you have a modern tag, using a modern rifle, a bow, or a muzzleloader IS in "compliance with your tag." JMO, that's how I read it. Pretty sure in this situation a warden wouldn't cite someone who decided to use a bow for their second deer tag even though their regular tag is for modern firearm.
I agree with you Bob. Any weapon is in compliance during a modern season. The only limitation is that you must hunt during a modern Firearm season.
Post by: Curly on May 10, 2017, 11:14:47 AM
Post by: JDHasty on May 10, 2017, 11:38:08 AM
If a person has the multi season deer and draws a 2nd deer permit, can you use different weapons for each tag?
...Kill a deer in archery general season, then use a rifle for the 2nd deer modern permit?
2nd deer permit regs say "The second tag must be the same weapon choice as your first tag" ....but if you have a multi tag, you do not have to specify weapon for the tag. :dunno:
The letter that confirms you were successful in drawing a multi deer states "Your multi season tag can only be used during general seasons and in GMU's that are open during a modern, muzzy, archery general season for deer."
But the multi season permits regs state "You may apply for any weapon type special hunting permits"
So which is it?
They told me last year that it was not legal to hunt my 2nd general tag (modern) during archery or ML. I had MS tag.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on May 10, 2017, 09:09:42 PM
If a person has the multi season deer and draws a 2nd deer permit, can you use different weapons for each tag?
...Kill a deer in archery general season, then use a rifle for the 2nd deer modern permit?
2nd deer permit regs say "The second tag must be the same weapon choice as your first tag" ....but if you have a multi tag, you do not have to specify weapon for the tag. :dunno:
The letter that confirms you were successful in drawing a multi deer states "Your multi season tag can only be used during general seasons and in GMU's that are open during a modern, muzzy, archery general season for deer."
But the multi season permits regs state "You may apply for any weapon type special hunting permits"
So which is it?
They told me last year that it was not legal to hunt my 2nd general tag (modern) during archery or ML. I had MS tag.
That's cause it was a modern 2nd tag/permit. You have to hunt during the season specified for the permit you drew, in your case, it had to be during the specified dates for that modern permit.
Post by: Jpmiller on May 11, 2017, 06:54:51 AM
That was from Wdfw so it could be wrong lol
Post by: JDHasty on May 11, 2017, 08:13:07 AM
If a person has the multi season deer and draws a 2nd deer permit, can you use different weapons for each tag?
...Kill a deer in archery general season, then use a rifle for the 2nd deer modern permit?
2nd deer permit regs say "The second tag must be the same weapon choice as your first tag" ....but if you have a multi tag, you do not have to specify weapon for the tag. :dunno:
The letter that confirms you were successful in drawing a multi deer states "Your multi season tag can only be used during general seasons and in GMU's that are open during a modern, muzzy, archery general season for deer."
But the multi season permits regs state "You may apply for any weapon type special hunting permits"
So which is it?
They told me last year that it was not legal to hunt my 2nd general tag (modern) during archery or ML. I had MS tag.
That's cause it was a modern 2nd tag/permit. You have to hunt during the season specified for the permit you drew, in your case, it had to be during the specified dates for that modern permit.
Yes
Post by: colersu22 on May 12, 2017, 07:38:05 AM
Hope this helps others but might not be a bad idea to call or email them for yourself to confirm.
Post by: bobcat on May 12, 2017, 08:07:53 AM
Sorry to have missed the party but three years ago I had multi season and an any weapon second deer tag (September hunt) and they told me as long as I didn't shoot a buck with my rifle I was fine to use whatever weapon for my second tag.
That was from Wdfw so it could be wrong lol
That doesn't make sense. In that scenario it makes no difference what method you use with your general season tag.
What I'm curious about is the second tag. Did you have to specify which method for that tag? I ask because I've never had a second tag.
I would think it would have printed on it "Modern" "Muzzleloader" or "Archery" like all tags do. If so, and it was a modern tag, then you could use any method with your second tag.
Post by: Jpmiller on May 12, 2017, 10:17:12 AM
Sorry to have missed the party but three years ago I had multi season and an any weapon second deer tag (September hunt) and they told me as long as I didn't shoot a buck with my rifle I was fine to use whatever weapon for my second tag.
That was from Wdfw so it could be wrong lol
That doesn't make sense. In that scenario it makes no difference what method you use with your general season tag.
What I'm curious about is the second tag. Did you have to specify which method for that tag? I ask because I've never had a second tag.
I would think it would have printed on it "Modern" "Muzzleloader" or "Archery" like all tags do. If so, and it was a modern tag, then you could use any method with your second tag.
I really wish I could remember what was printed on it but I don't recall. I will have to pay attention to it next time I draw.
I did not and have never had to declare a weapon choice for the hunt. It's an antlerless tag during general archery season and the general archery season is any deer for white tail or 3 point minimum or antlerless for mule deer. I told the guy I was planning on hunting the archery general season but wanted to shoot the first legal deer with my archery tag then go after my antlerless second deer tag with my rifle.
I was told as long as I don't shoot a buck with my rifle I could shoot a deer with my bow, and then use anything I wanted for a second doe and that as long as I don't shoot a buck with my rifle I would be fine.
Post by: JDHasty on May 12, 2017, 12:44:59 PM
If a person has the multi season deer and draws a 2nd deer permit, can you use different weapons for each tag?
...Kill a deer in archery general season, then use a rifle for the 2nd deer modern permit?
2nd deer permit regs say "The second tag must be the same weapon choice as your first tag" ....but if you have a multi tag, you do not have to specify weapon for the tag. :dunno:
The letter that confirms you were successful in drawing a multi deer states "Your multi season tag can only be used during general seasons and in GMU's that are open during a modern, muzzy, archery general season for deer."
But the multi season permits regs state "You may apply for any weapon type special hunting permits"
So which is it?
They told me last year that it was not legal to hunt my 2nd general tag (modern) during archery or ML. I had MS tag.
That's cause it was a modern 2nd tag/permit. You have to hunt during the season specified for the permit you drew, in your case, it had to be during the specified dates for that modern permit.
Yes
I actually shot my second deer w/my crossbow during late Modern Season. I was going to shoot an antlerless deer w/my compound bow, but the opportunity presented itself and I was trying to get the camp broke down too that day and not stay the night.