Post by: Martinhunter on July 28, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
Post by: tgomez on July 28, 2017, 12:36:29 PM
Post by: Martinhunter on July 28, 2017, 12:56:47 PM
Over here in Eastern Washington I am seeing mulie does with 1-3 fawns everyday to and from work.
That's good to hear, what part of the state? This was just referring to okanogan/methow area.
Post by: bigmacc on July 29, 2017, 02:53:30 PM
Talked to a biologist today about the condition of our mule deer herds in and around north central part of the state and he said the outlook is not looking very good again this year. He said fawn to doe numbers are way down again. I was hoping to hear that things are slowly rebounding over there. A hard winter probably didn't help much either.
I am seeing the same thing Martinhunter, numbers are dismall in the Methow, the worst I have seen in 25 to 30 years. I to have talked to some fish and game guys who also said the same as what you were told. I'm hearing another 3 to 5 years :dunno:. I think tgomez is in the Spokane area :dunno:
Post by: Martinhunter on July 30, 2017, 03:10:42 PM
Talked to a biologist today about the condition of our mule deer herds in and around north central part of the state and he said the outlook is not looking very good again this year. He said fawn to doe numbers are way down again. I was hoping to hear that things are slowly rebounding over there. A hard winter probably didn't help much either.
I am seeing the same thing Martinhunter, numbers are dismall in the Methow, the worst I have seen in 25 to 30 years. I to have talked to some fish and game guys who also said the same as what you were told. I'm hearing another 3 to 5 years :dunno:. I think tgomez is in the Spokane area :dunno:
Yeah that's too bad.. I think another 3-5 years at the rate it's going the whole damn herd will be wiped out.
Post by: bobcat on July 30, 2017, 05:06:53 PM
Personally I think many GMU's should be closed to deer hunting for at least two or three years. It's asinine to continue hunting a deer herd that has been almost entirely wiped out.
Post by: jdb on July 30, 2017, 05:17:51 PM
Post by: bigmacc on July 30, 2017, 07:33:32 PM
It will be interesting to see what the WDFW Hunting Prospects says about the Methow valley mule deer herd this year.
Personally I think many GMU's should be closed to deer hunting for at least two or three years. It's asinine to continue hunting a deer herd that has been almost entirely wiped out.
I 100% agree, it is truly sad whats going on in the Methow as far as deer numbers go (I can't speak for the other areas that have taken a beating, only the area I am familiar with). For those of us that have been kicking around in this valley for 30, 40, 50+ years it is a shame what this herd has become :'(, I guess you needed to be around back then to see how sad it really is.
Post by: bigmacc on July 30, 2017, 07:45:04 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on July 30, 2017, 08:29:42 PM
I am not so keen on the idea of shutting it down, Why? Will just create more pressure in other areas....most of which the deer numbers are well below normal too. :twocents:
Post by: bigmacc on July 30, 2017, 09:11:09 PM
:twocents:
I am not so keen on the idea of shutting it down, Why? Will just create more pressure in other areas....most of which the deer numbers are well below normal too. :twocents:
I can respect that, then at least for the Methow, leave it open but go to draw only immediately. The pressure in the units within this valley is hammering this herd as well as fires, tough winters and encroachment on habitat. I have mentioned it before that this herd is a mere shadow of what it once was. The amount of people hunting it has skyrocketed, the human population and encroachment has increased along with a booming predator issue, someone(WDFW) needs to step up and do something or the future of hunting in this valley is dismal I'm afraid. :twocents:
Post by: Wingin it on July 31, 2017, 08:32:07 PM
Post by: OutHouse on August 01, 2017, 08:20:12 AM
Post by: no.cen.wa on August 01, 2017, 10:32:35 AM
I have always harped on the WDFW being "all about the money"
Back in 1999 I sent a letter to Mark Quinn, Regional Wildlife Program Manager. I said I thought the 3pt min. rule was great, his response was a surprise. He said he was very much against it.
He wrote, in 1997 the WDFW started the 3 point antler restriction, they also shortened the season from 14 days to 9 days, that was the shortest since 1945. In 1997 they had the lowest ever turnout in Okanogan county, it went from 22,000 to 8000.(did I say money) That drop in pressure alone would create great hunting, for awhile.
In 1998 WDFW ran an "Emphasis Patrol" on the Gardner 231 unit looking at illegal(less than 3 pts) Gardner was 3 pt since 1983. The illegal Kill rate was 17%, multiply that times all the 3 pt. areas. And some went on to shoot another deer!
So, Whats the answer? not sure, but it sure points to shorter season, maybe change up the 3 pt rule, allow any buck? Rotate any buck and 3 pt. The 3 pt rule puts ALL the pressure on the mature bucks. When it was any buck I would pass on spikes, but if season end was closing, a spike was meat on the table!
Mark also said, Since the 1997, they saw the % of 3 pt and better bucks slowly declining , from 46% in 97 to 31% in 99. Now it's 2017, bet it's not 46%!
So, food for thought
John G
ps, Much like bigmacc, my family has hunted the Methow for years, from 1920s to present. My uncle, Jim Simmons owned what is now the "Tice Ranch". When the depression hit my Grandfather left his restaurant in Wenatchee and leased a ranch just up from my Uncle.
Well, that"s my story, and I'm sticking to it!
Post by: boneaddict on August 01, 2017, 10:50:01 AM
It will be interesting to see what the WDFW Hunting Prospects says about the Methow valley mule deer herd this year.
Personally I think many GMU's should be closed to deer hunting for at least two or three years. It's asinine to continue hunting a deer herd that has been almost entirely wiped out.
:yeah: AMEN! :yeah:
Post by: boneaddict on August 01, 2017, 10:51:41 AM
I wonder how much of this is caused by the intrusion of more whitetails into the area. When I was a kid we would see a few whitetail every season. Now, especially in lower elevations, at least half the deer I see are whitetail.
not the problem
basic math. you have a herd of mule deer in one hand, a handful of whitetail in the other. throw the herd of muledeer into the trash, what do you have left? ......
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2017, 11:08:26 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 01, 2017, 11:19:53 AM
Great info no.cen.wa, thanks for passing it along. I to agree with bone on the whitetail issue, I also don't think that is the problem with the Methow herd decline.......The 3 P,s- Pressure,Predators,and people Too much of all 3, :twocents:Not to mention a few hundred thousand acres of burned up habitat - the 4th P Puff, Poof, Pyre? :fire.:
Post by: Seahawk12 on August 01, 2017, 11:38:46 AM
Maybe if less of our resources were wasted on shipping apex predators into our state and defending them and were instead focused on growing our deer/elk herd numbers the reality would be different.
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2017, 11:40:37 AM
Great info no.cen.wa, thanks for passing it along. I to agree with bone on the whitetail issue, I also don't think that is the problem with the Methow herd decline.......The 3 P,s- Pressure,Predators,and people Too much of all 3, :twocents:Not to mention a few hundred thousand acres of burned up habitat - the 4th P Puff, Poof, Pyre? :fire.:
Absolutely DOUBLELUNG :tup:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 01, 2017, 11:41:42 AM
Post by: Seahawk12 on August 01, 2017, 12:01:47 PM
That would be southward from highway 20 to the Entiatill edit that. Meant highway 2.
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2017, 01:03:12 PM
It is nothing like it used to be, hasn't been for years! That area is where my mule deer dreams began and it's sad to see what it has become.
Very sad, I remember my dad and I (back in the 60,s) sitting on a rock bluff above a particular stretch of road counting 300-500 head in a day heading back up to the high country during the spring migration, and you could see those kind of numbers every day for a good week to 10 days just sitting in that one spot in the valley, now imagine all the other dozens and dozens of routes in that valley that were being used also. Kind of puts into perspective the decline in numbers of this herd by those of us who have a history there. :twocents:
Post by: boneaddict on August 01, 2017, 01:29:40 PM
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2017, 04:39:20 PM
It's lost on many. They see thirty deer standing in a field by town and think the country is full of them. What they don't realize is that field plus the one next to it, and the one next to it used to have 300.
Yes sir bone! Your absolutely right, Heck I remember(I think I've shared this one on here before) sitting on a spot one morning during hunting season, some storms had been hitting the high country for about a week. I sat in that spot and counted over 200 deer move through in about a half hours time and not a horn in the bunch, all does and yearlings, the migration had started and they were on the move. If you knew the routes this was a common sight and if you weren't in the routes you would still see 8, 10, 12 or 15 in a bunch off and on throughout the day, it was common, it could have been the middle of October or the end, it just depended on when the move started. You don't see that any more, not even close. Now seeing a big group of 15 or more during the week is a rarity during hunting season. Yes the season is missing a second week nowadays but like I said it was common even during the first week of the season (middle of Oct.) to see the does and yearlings flooding in, even without weather pushing them you would still see them moving in, it was just that time to make the move. The herd was 35,000 to 40,000 strong and it was something great to be a part of. Then the north cascade pass was built and 2 of the 3 P,s took effect- Pressure and people. The Dept. needs to MANAGE this herd, back in the day(not that long ago) this deer herd was the Game Dept,s pride and joy, it was put on a pedestal, nurtured and taken care of. As I have mentioned before now there are to many irons in the fire, special interest groups, lack of predator control etc. etc., bottom line this herd has fallen down the pecking order of prioritys IMO. I, like a few of you have said (that remember how it was and the potential of what it could be again) would like to see the Methow either shut down for deer hunting for a couple years or go to a draw only or both. Draw 150 to 200 tags per unit, open the season the 2nd week of Oct. and shut it down Nov. 1st and do away with the "quality tags"or even go to an odd even system depending on the last digit of your wild ID so you can only hunt it every other year, heck, all I know is something needs to be done or there won't be much left for the next generation to chase around :twocents:
Post by: cbond3318 on August 01, 2017, 05:16:10 PM
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2017, 05:50:16 PM
Is there an estimated , as of today, Herd size number?
I've heard somewhere in the 10 to 15 thousand range, a big difference from the 35 to 40 thousand that it was in its hay-day(pre north cascade pass). Thats when the town of Winthrop or Twisp was brought up in conversation and 9 out of 10 people would say "WHERE THE *#*# IS THAT?)
Post by: cbond3318 on August 01, 2017, 06:09:00 PM
Is there an estimated , as of today, Herd size number?
I've heard somewhere in the 10 to 15 thousand range, a big difference from the 35 to 40 thousand that it was in its hay-day(pre north cascade pass). Thats when the town of Winthrop or Twisp was brought up in conversation and 9 out of 10 people would say "WHERE THE *#*# IS THAT?)
Thank you bigmacc, I would love nothing more than to travel back in time to lay witness to the happenings you and others have described. I'm sorry that you have had to watch the demise of this herd.
Post by: bigmacc on August 01, 2017, 06:34:29 PM
Is there an estimated , as of today, Herd size number?
I've heard somewhere in the 10 to 15 thousand range, a big difference from the 35 to 40 thousand that it was in its hay-day(pre north cascade pass). Thats when the town of Winthrop or Twisp was brought up in conversation and 9 out of 10 people would say "WHERE THE *#*# IS THAT?)
Thank you bigmacc, I would love nothing more than to travel back in time to lay witness to the happenings you and others have described. I'm sorry that you have had to watch the demise of this herd.
Your welcome cbond and it could get that way again or close to it for the the next generations to enjoy if it was managed correctly, make every unit in the whole darn valley a "QUALITY DRAW ONLY" like some parts of Utah and Arizona are. If something isn't done soon its going to go down hill beyond fixing IMO.
Post by: 2506 on August 01, 2017, 09:55:28 PM
Carlton fire burned winter range, yes ceanothus is great for deer and does come back after a fire, have you ever seen deer eat it when there is a crust on the snow when there is 2 ish feet of snow? NO they can't get to it. They need bitterbrush then. Guess what, 90% is gone! I know of fires in the 70s where bitter brush burned and hasn't come back. I've plowed snow 20 plus years lower Methow, seen 92-93 winter and 96-97, Carlton fire will have longer term effects on Methow herd
Post by: no.cen.wa on August 02, 2017, 09:41:15 AM
John G
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 02, 2017, 11:19:10 AM
Post by: bigmacc on August 02, 2017, 11:38:22 AM
Post by: bigmacc on August 02, 2017, 11:45:17 AM
Sadly, nearly all migratory mule deer herds in the western mountain ranges are a shadow of what they were in the 1950s and 1960s, and have been on a long, slow decline since with short term ups and downs. I doubt we will ever again see the combination of forest practices and predator control (both government efforts and trapping/fur harvest) that probably resulted in mule deer attaining what was likely an all-time high population rangewide for what had been a fairly uncommon habitat specialist. In another 50-100 years I predict mule deer hunting opportunities will be highly coveted, limited opportunities - more common than those to hunt a ram, billy or bull moose, but nothing like being able to hunt bucks every year. I could envision Washington going to true spike for mule deer in eastern WA, just like Colockum elk - with special permits for mature bucks and some doe permits where ag conflicts exist.
I sadly agree with you DOUBLELUNG, but maybe we could put it off a while longer with some different ideas and management, at least as far as the Methow herd goes we could manage it as a real "Quality area" like they have in Arizona, Utah and others, manage it for trophy-quality opportunity :dunno:...I,m old :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: NOCK NOCK on August 02, 2017, 11:54:40 AM
Saving one herd to decimate another is not progress. :twocents:
Post by: bigmacc on August 02, 2017, 12:48:17 PM
I could agree with some reduction in hunting opportunity's in the Methow......as long as there is better control of where all those misplaced hunters will move to.
Saving one herd to decimate another is not progress. :twocents:
I hear ya NOCK, and I'm sure some hunters will be displaced to other areas, some west side hunters may stay home and hunt blacktails , some may go out of state etc. I can only speak for myself and my pardners, but we would be there every year, same camp(hopefully one or two of us draw every year :chuckle:) and enjoy ourselves, heck it would be fun to go help others that drew who might not know the area and possibly "guide" them to a big fella(it'll cost em a liver and onion dinner :chuckle:), Heck I think some old timers would be apt to even show a honey hole or two cause the area is draw only (and not open to a general season) to help a tag holder :dunno:. One thing you hit on the head though, there is a lot of "mis-placed hunters " in there and more every year(which is good for our sport, just not good for a deer herd that is in a death spiral) :twocents:
Post by: no.cen.wa on August 02, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
I remember talking to some Republic area locals years ago, they said"we always buy a license and tag" but don't hunt during the season "cause it's just too crowded with coasties" they fill their tag when the coasties go home!
I'll leave it at that.
Post by: bigmacc on August 02, 2017, 01:53:35 PM
Oh good bigmacc, your going to show me some of your honey holes! Course I'm really old and would probably forget by tomorrow 8) maybe. I, like many hate to see hunting limited but that is really the only way to get things turned the right way. I counted up the special permit application fees for deer only, 2 or so years ago, it came to over $500,000.00, just for the application fee. I don't think WDFW will give that money up. They just don't get funded by the state like they used to. People want the chance to hunt each year, maybe a 7 day season? shorter, and still have some sort of special hunts. Just not sure. I don't think they will chance losing the revenue by closing it down.
I remember talking to some Republic area locals years ago, they said"we always buy a license and tag" but don't hunt during the season "cause it's just too crowded with coasties" they fill their tag when the coasties go home!
I'll leave it at that.
And I'm sure you got a few honey holes up your sleeve too no.cen.wa and guess what I,m old too and very forgetful :chuckle:.....Ya I know the money thing is an issue,unfortunatly, but they could raise the app. fee a little to apply for the 200 tags per unit to help and hey!, maybe start spending some money on the deer herd and its health rather than other things 8) :dunno:, some of those "other things" are picking off deer every day and more and more of them..... and man I wish those fellas could run their hounds like they used too. I do agree with you though, it is a problem and something needs to be done, what that is? who knows,all we have is ideas to throw out there and who's gonna listen to a couple "old guys" who can't remember anything :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bigmacc on August 02, 2017, 05:35:12 PM
Game depth isn't biggest problem. Carlton fire 2014 is Period! How much bitter brush is coming back? None! Methow deer need at least 3 easy winters for a chance to " come back"
Carlton fire burned winter range, yes ceanothus is great for deer and does come back after a fire, have you ever seen deer eat it when there is a crust on the snow when there is 2 ish feet of snow? NO they can't get to it. They need bitterbrush then. Guess what, 90% is gone! I know of fires in the 70s where bitter brush burned and hasn't come back. I've plowed snow 20 plus years lower Methow, seen 92-93 winter and 96-97, Carlton fire will have longer term effects on Methow herd
No argument here 2506, that fire certainly contributed to the "hurt" being put on this herd. That fire did a number on this valley.
Post by: UBA on August 02, 2017, 07:08:41 PM
Post by: bobcat on August 02, 2017, 08:25:59 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 02, 2017, 08:29:50 PM
Like I've said many times, the whole state needs to be draw only for deer. It's the only way to properly manage the deer with the number of hunters we have.
Is this for all user Groups that your proposing this?
Post by: bobcat on August 02, 2017, 08:35:10 PM
Let me rip the Band-Aid off this topic!Like I've said many times, the whole state needs to be draw only for deer. It's the only way to properly manage the deer with the number of hunters we have.
Is this for all user Groups that your proposing this?
I'm not sure. Something needs to change. As others have said, if you limit the number of hunters in the Methow, those displaced hunters will put excessive pressure on deer somewhere else in the state. We could at least do what Oregon does, and have all rifle mule deer hunting by draw only, while archery mule deer is over the counter tags.
Post by: no.cen.wa on August 02, 2017, 10:10:17 PM
Post by: AROTTY on August 03, 2017, 09:07:16 AM
Like I've said many times, the whole state needs to be draw only for deer. It's the only way to properly manage the deer with the number of hunters we have.
My proposal would be a week long OTC season for mule deer regardless of weapon and keep the blacktail & whitetail seasons the same. You'd still have a good opportunity if you don't draw a tag, and the herds would get a much needed break.
Post by: boneaddict on August 03, 2017, 10:34:35 AM
Post by: bigmacc on August 03, 2017, 11:11:34 AM
You can see how flexible they are or how intune they are with management of this herd. Just look at the number of Quality tags available this year. How many doe tags were there?
Yes sir!.... I think one thing we can all agree on or at least most of us is the way this Methow herd has been "managed" is not working. Their are other ideas out there that would create a quality hunting experience, save the herd and make money.....Open minds are NOT a dangerous thing! :chuckle:...............Fixed it, I added the NOT.
Post by: ghosthunter on August 03, 2017, 11:38:07 AM
One or two game agents for the Methow is nuts.
All the problems mentioned already plus more game agents and higher fines need to be in place too.
I hate to see it but I would be in favor of shutting down all the deer hunting for 3 years.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 03, 2017, 11:45:43 AM
Post by: bigmacc on August 03, 2017, 05:28:52 PM
If one herd goes draw only or shutdown it would destroy the other herds as well. I think it should be OTC general tag unless u want to apply for a special permit, then u only can hunt if u draw. Would increase odds for everyone while still allowing everyone to hunt if they wanw, without placing added pressure on another herd.
Everybody take a look at this, it keeps a general season and keeps a quality-special permit season(as it is now), what I think I'm reading here is you can only do one or the other?, either hunt the general with no special app. purchase or put in for a special permit and you sit out the general season that year:dunno:. If thats what UBA is saying here, this is kind of interesting!
Post by: no.cen.wa on August 03, 2017, 10:50:27 PM
I still think a very short season, 3,4,5 days would make a big difference and giving the big bucks, 3 point and more alittle break by going any buck once in awhile. We can let the WDFW keep their "cash cow" special permits and the bogus draw.
John G
Post by: bigmacc on August 04, 2017, 07:31:21 AM
Post by: no.cen.wa on August 04, 2017, 08:28:35 AM
Post by: OutHouse on August 04, 2017, 09:55:34 AM
The poaching and rules violations are also rampant. Getting the wildlife officers to come up to the top end of the valley is like pulling teeth, except you never get the tooth out. Two years ago I was doing archery and there was a guy near my area who was bating with tree stands. He shot a huge whitetail doe (probably 150 pounds), ripped off the hindquarters and left the rest of the meat. Then continued hunting! Myself and my brother were witness to this, called the officer in Omak I think, and he said "gosh that's a long drive all the way up there". I told him you have a clear case of waste of wildlife here with witnesses etc. and you don't want to pursue it? It was ridiculous--he tried to argue that waste is subjective or some nonsense.
Post by: muleracks on August 05, 2017, 03:44:44 PM
Post by: sjhgraysage on August 06, 2017, 03:07:14 PM
I believe the entire state's mule deer herd is struggling.
What is hard to believe is that our Wildlife Dept is so slow in seeing what Colorado, Nevada, and other mule deer states have already seen, and went to permit only deer hunting. Hunters have to be managed as well as the game animals. I think we past the point of seeing the reality that permit only hunting is the only way to manage both game and hunters. I know it won't be popular with a percentage of hunters, but I believe we owe to our wildlife. Rant over. :twocents:
Post by: bigmacc on August 07, 2017, 06:04:22 PM
I agree with comments about things declining since hwy 20 was built over to Winthrop. I'm not old enough to have personal knowledge of this, but I know an older fella who helped build the North Cascades Hwy and he's been up in Mazama for about 50 years. He said before the hwy, herds of mule deer could be viewed in the middle of the valley on a regular basis.
The poaching and rules violations are also rampant. Getting the wildlife officers to come up to the top end of the valley is like pulling teeth, except you never get the tooth out. Two years ago I was doing archery and there was a guy near my area who was bating with tree stands. He shot a huge whitetail doe (probably 150 pounds), ripped off the hindquarters and left the rest of the meat. Then continued hunting! Myself and my brother were witness to this, called the officer in Omak I think, and he said "gosh that's a long drive all the way up there". I told him you have a clear case of waste of wildlife here with witnesses etc. and you don't want to pursue it? It was ridiculous--he tried to argue that waste is subjective or some nonsense.
Well I believe it also(that the opening of the north cascade pass) was a huge contributor to the decline in the Methow herd. In its day it was the largest mule deer herd in the state, it wasn't kept a secret intentionally its just that pre-pass most people had no idea where the Methow valley was let alone where the "little town at the end of the road", (Winthrop) was. In the area we hunted (that covered a huge area, probably 10 square miles) everybody knew everybody, they knew where other folks hunted and they stayed out of their way. I'm sure a lot of you folks with history in the Methow have the same stories. My family started hunting it in 1917, my great grandparents had friends that had huge land parcels over there(mostly the north part of the valley). 95 percent of the land my family started hunting back then and into the 20,s is now Gov.land, DNR, forest service, national forest or game dept. land. Some was sold, some was donated to the game dept. Very little is still private property and the small percentage that is has been sold over and over again and is mostly located around the town of Winthrop. Heres a good one for you, I think it was back in the 40,s :dunno:, my great grandpa was friends with the folks that owned a big hill along the side of a lake called Pearrygin lake, my dad was in the marine corp at the time and was young(and dumb :chuckle:). My great grandpa wrote him a letter and asked if he wanted to go in halves and buy a couple thousand acres by this lake over by where they hunt, of coarse my dad knew where it was because he had been hunting the area since he was a boy. My dad turned down the deal for a lot of reasons like buying cars, etc.etc(the reasons most 20 somethings have for not wanting to invest :chuckle:). Well the trigger was never pulled on the deal, and is one of my dads worst regrets in life, that parcel of land that was offered to my great grandparents was offered to them at $7.50 an acre and is now known as Studhorse Mountain. The pass opened this valley up to a lot of people, new opportunities, new ventures, and an influx of people that came and stayed. Large ranches and large tracts of property that had been in families for generations were being chopped up and sold and the rest is history. Pressure,and People(2 of the 3 P,s) started when the pass was opened IMHO.
Post by: bigmacc on August 08, 2017, 06:31:00 PM
Post by: bigmacc on August 08, 2017, 07:19:35 PM
Post by: bigmacc on August 18, 2017, 11:22:29 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on August 18, 2017, 11:25:46 AM
Solid info :tup:
Post by: bearhunter99 on August 18, 2017, 11:57:02 AM
We as hunters need to get behind, get in front, or demand something be done about this herd or IMO it will be lost. The dept. needs to listen to ideas and have an open mind. They can still make money, save this herd, offer a quality experience for hunters and save other herds in the process. I wish it was still the DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME :'(......If this herd continues the slide its on, I predict in15 to 20 years it will be lights out, then all the other herds up around Wenatchee, Entiat and other parts of the state will follow. Dominoe effect, more hunters every year will be forced into other areas. Statewide draw only for mule deer?..... might not be a bad deal :tup: It will all start with the Methow folks, something needs to be done.
I agree 100% with this statement. The other herds are not doing much better. There has been a steady decline in the deer numbers in The Wenatchee Valley as well. Not seeing anywhere near the numbers there used to be and just finding a legal buck is tough! In the area I hunt the numbers are probably very similar to what you are posting, just a steady decline in numbers.
Post by: bigmacc on August 18, 2017, 02:44:41 PM
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2017, 03:44:05 PM
Post by: OutHouse on August 22, 2017, 02:04:42 PM
Post by: boneaddict on August 22, 2017, 02:13:43 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 22, 2017, 02:48:41 PM
Post by: wolfbait on August 22, 2017, 04:51:41 PM
It will be interesting to see what the WDFW Hunting Prospects says about the Methow valley mule deer herd this year.
Personally I think many GMU's should be closed to deer hunting for at least two or three years. It's asinine to continue hunting a deer herd that has been almost entirely wiped out.
WDF&Wolves will say-Deer hunting was great for the amount of hunters that showed up......
Post by: wolfbait on August 22, 2017, 05:35:35 PM
We as hunters need to get behind, get in front, or demand something be done about this herd or IMO it will be lost. The dept. needs to listen to ideas and have an open mind. They can still make money, save this herd, offer a quality experience for hunters and save other herds in the process. I wish it was still the DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME :'(......If this herd continues the slide its on, I predict in15 to 20 years it will be lights out, then all the other herds up around Wenatchee, Entiat and other parts of the state will follow. Dominoe effect, more hunters every year will be forced into other areas. Statewide draw only for mule deer?..... might not be a bad deal :tup: It will all start with the Methow folks, something needs to be done.
You put out some great info BM :tup:
Did you happen to notice when the deer started hanging around town? A few winters back a friend and I drove the Methow, put 60 odd miles on the truck, we saw a total of eleven deer, nine of them in Twisp.
Earlier this summer a friend of mine got six different cougars on his trail cam in one small drainage, at the same location five different black bear. I talk to a friend of mine who raises hay over in Spring Coulee who said he has never seen so may bears as he has this year.
Wolves don't bring the same excitement to folks anymore, we hear of people who have seen them throughout the valley on a regular basis. When the whitetail started dropping their fawns this year we ran a wolf off of a doe twice.
So now we have an over population of predators that hunt 24/7 365 days, shouldn't take too much brain power for WDF&Wolves to figure out the impact of predation on the herd/herds.
Post by: boneaddict on August 23, 2017, 08:54:18 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on August 23, 2017, 10:07:29 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 23, 2017, 11:56:48 AM
Post by: buglebrush on August 23, 2017, 01:41:40 PM
Post by: Cervus on August 23, 2017, 11:03:13 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/aug2217a/
Post by: bigmacc on September 07, 2017, 03:20:15 PM
Lots of good discussion in this thread. For anyone interested in making their case for mule deer management directly to WDFW, there is a meeting in Pateros on Sept 19 from 6 - 8. The timing isn't great with archery elk going on, but it will be a chance to make your voice heard.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/aug2217a/
Thanks for the info Cervus :tup:
Post by: samsqatch on September 08, 2017, 09:15:31 AM