North central mule deer

[boneaddict]

I wonder how much of this is caused by the intrusion of more whitetails into the area. When I was a kid we would see a few whitetail every season. Now, especially in lower elevations, at least half the deer I see are whitetail.

not the problem


basic math.  you have a herd of mule deer in one hand, a handful of whitetail in the other.  throw the herd of muledeer into the trash, what do you have left?   ......

[bigmacc]

Great info no.cen.wa, thanks for passing it along. I to agree with bone on the whitetail issue, I also don't think that is the problem with the Methow herd decline.......The 3 P,s- Pressure,Predators,and people Too much of all 3,

[DOUBLELUNG]

Great info no.cen.wa, thanks for passing it along. I to agree with bone on the whitetail issue, I also don't think that is the problem with the Methow herd decline.......The 3 P,s- Pressure,Predators,and people Too much of all 3,

Not to mention a few hundred thousand acres of burned up habitat - the 4th P Puff, Poof, Pyre? 

[Seahawk12]

In the last 4 weeks I've put around 75 miles on my hiking boots going up and down ridge lines and mountian sides from highway 2 northward towards entiat and the numbers are sparse.
Maybe if less of our resources were wasted on shipping apex predators into our state and defending them and were instead focused on growing our deer/elk herd numbers the reality would be different.

[bigmacc]

Great info no.cen.wa, thanks for passing it along. I to agree with bone on the whitetail issue, I also don't think that is the problem with the Methow herd decline.......The 3 P,s- Pressure,Predators,and people Too much of all 3,

Not to mention a few hundred thousand acres of burned up habitat - the 4th P Puff, Poof, Pyre? 

Absolutely DOUBLELUNG 

[Skyvalhunter]

That would be southward from highway 20 to the Entiat

[Seahawk12]

That would be southward from highway 20 to the Entiat

ill edit that. Meant highway 2.

[bigmacc]

It is nothing like it used to be, hasn't been for years! That area is where my mule deer dreams began and it's sad to see what it has become.

Very sad, I remember my dad and I (back in the 60,s) sitting on a rock bluff above a particular stretch of road counting 300-500 head in a day heading back up to the high country during the spring migration, and you could see those kind of numbers every day for a good week to 10 days just sitting in that one spot in the valley, now imagine all the other dozens and dozens of routes in that valley that were being used also. Kind of puts into perspective the decline in numbers of this herd by those of us who have a history there.

[boneaddict]

It's lost on many.  They see thirty deer standing in a field by town and think the country is full of them.   What they don't realize is that field plus the one next to it, and the one next to it used to have 300. 

[bigmacc]

It's lost on many.  They see thirty deer standing in a field by town and think the country is full of them.   What they don't realize is that field plus the one next to it, and the one next to it used to have 300.

Yes sir bone! Your absolutely right, Heck I remember(I think I've shared this one on here before) sitting on a spot one morning during hunting season, some storms had been hitting the high country for about a week. I sat in that spot and counted over 200 deer move through in about a half hours time and not a horn in the bunch, all does and yearlings, the migration had started and they were on the move. If you knew the routes this was a common sight and if you weren't in the routes you would still see 8, 10, 12 or 15 in a bunch off and on throughout the day, it was common, it could have been the middle of October or the end, it just depended on when the move started. You don't see that any more, not even close. Now seeing a big group of 15 or more during the week is a rarity during hunting season. Yes the season is missing a second week nowadays but like I said it was common even during the first week of the season (middle of Oct.) to see the does and yearlings flooding in, even without weather pushing them you would still see them moving in, it was just that time to make the move. The herd was 35,000 to 40,000 strong and it was something great to be a part of. Then the north cascade pass was built and 2 of the 3 P,s took effect- Pressure and people. The Dept. needs to MANAGE this herd, back in the day(not that long ago) this deer herd was the Game Dept,s pride and joy, it was put on a pedestal, nurtured and taken care of. As I have mentioned before now there are to many irons in the fire, special interest groups, lack of predator control etc. etc., bottom line this herd has fallen down the pecking order of prioritys IMO. I, like a few of you have said (that remember how it was and the potential of what it could be again) would like to see the Methow either shut down for deer hunting for a couple years or go to a draw only or both. Draw 150 to 200 tags per unit, open the season the 2nd week of Oct. and shut it down Nov. 1st and do away with the "quality tags"or even go to an odd even system depending on the last digit of your wild ID so you can only hunt it every other year, heck, all I know is something needs to be done or there won't be much left for the next generation to chase around

[cbond3318]

Is there an estimated , as of today, Herd size number?

[bigmacc]

Is there an estimated , as of today, Herd size number?

I've heard somewhere in the 10 to 15 thousand range, a big difference from the 35 to 40 thousand that it was in its hay-day(pre north cascade pass). Thats when the town of Winthrop or Twisp was brought up in conversation and 9 out of 10 people would say "WHERE THE *#*# IS THAT?)

[cbond3318]

Is there an estimated , as of today, Herd size number?

I've heard somewhere in the 10 to 15 thousand range, a big difference from the 35 to 40 thousand that it was in its hay-day(pre north cascade pass). Thats when the town of Winthrop or Twisp was brought up in conversation and 9 out of 10 people would say "WHERE THE *#*# IS THAT?)

Thank you bigmacc, I would love nothing more than to travel back in time to lay witness to the happenings you and others have described. I'm sorry that you have had to watch the demise of this herd.

[bigmacc]

Is there an estimated , as of today, Herd size number?

I've heard somewhere in the 10 to 15 thousand range, a big difference from the 35 to 40 thousand that it was in its hay-day(pre north cascade pass). Thats when the town of Winthrop or Twisp was brought up in conversation and 9 out of 10 people would say "WHERE THE *#*# IS THAT?)

Thank you bigmacc, I would love nothing more than to travel back in time to lay witness to the happenings you and others have described. I'm sorry that you have had to watch the demise of this herd.

Your welcome cbond and it could get that way again or close to it for the the next generations to enjoy if it was managed correctly, make every unit in the whole darn valley a "QUALITY DRAW ONLY" like some parts of Utah and Arizona are. If something isn't done soon its going to go down hill beyond fixing IMO.

[2506]

Game depth isn't biggest problem.  Carlton  fire 2014 is Period!  How much bitter brush is coming back? None! Methow deer need at least 3 easy winters for a chance to " come back"
 Carlton fire burned winter range, yes ceanothus is great for deer and does come back after a fire, have you ever seen deer eat it when there is a crust on the snow when there is 2 ish feet of snow? NO they can't get to it. They need bitterbrush then. Guess what, 90% is gone!  I know of fires in the 70s where bitter brush burned and hasn't come back. I've plowed snow 20 plus years lower Methow, seen 92-93 winter and 96-97, Carlton fire will have longer term effects on Methow herd