Post by: Bob33 on August 31, 2017, 09:46:46 AM
This practice, Game and Fish Wardens say isn’t fair for hunters, or their prey.
The premise is simple: go find a trophy animal and then get paid by someone who wants to know the location.
WGFD Chief Warden Brian Nesvik shared, “Folks are spending quite a bit of time scouting for big trophy class animals in remote areas, and then taking the locations of those animals and selling services to people, helping them to find those animals during the hunting season.”
“I think it’s a question of ethics, there’s a balance there. It brings into question fair chase but you know the advancements of technology has put us at this point,” commented, Joshua Coursey Muley Fanatic Foundation President.
This is especially true for trophy mule deer bucks, because they generally stay around the same area until migrating.
“It’s not always easy to find animals in those areas, but once you do find them, especially with mule deer they maintain a lot of fidelity to that area until they leave again to migrate back down to winter ranges,” said Coursey.
This problem has been brought to light in the past few years. The consensus, it is not fair and even unethical.
“Actually really in the last couple of years we’ve started to see more of these services advertised, and that’s primarily where I think most of the folks we heard from here today at the committee have become aware of this issue.”
“The chase or the stalk is the hunt; it’s not called killing or shooting, it’s called hunting! And I think when you alleviate that you’ve taken the sport and the recreational pursuit of hunting and it’s turned into something not what this hunting community cherishes.”
State Representative District #33, Jim Allen felt, “We thought by our vote that it was an unfair advantage given to some hunters and not others, and so we’ll see what the bill does when it gets to the budget session in February but right now we passed the bill out of committee that prohibits that practice.”
GPS advertisements can range from a few hundred dollars to almost two-thousand, depending on the trophy status of an animal.
http://www.kcwy13.com/content/news/Selling-the-Coorinates--442271353.html
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 31, 2017, 10:04:24 AM
Post by: greenhead_killer on August 31, 2017, 10:18:59 AM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on August 31, 2017, 10:21:14 AM
Post by: huntnphool on August 31, 2017, 10:23:49 AM
The premise is simple: go find a trophy animal and then get paid by someone who wants to know the location.
Isn't this exactly why people book with outfitters/guides like Mossback?
Same thing really. :dunno:
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 31, 2017, 10:34:12 AM
I wonder if it is the guides who are pissed then?
That could be, and in a state where they're actually regulated and have to pay big bucks for a license, that would be a motivator.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on August 31, 2017, 10:51:30 AM
There are some hunters who dislike it on ethical reasons, but yes the big outcry is from outfitters who guide on the national forest - and who want to sell the same service with all the trimmings for more money.I wonder if it is the guides who are pissed then?
That could be, and in a state where they're actually regulated and have to pay big bucks for a license, that would be a motivator.
Post by: jjhunter on August 31, 2017, 11:21:20 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 31, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
There are some hunters who dislike it on ethical reasons, but yes the big outcry is from outfitters who guide on the national forest - and who want to sell the same service with all the trimmings for more money.I wonder if it is the guides who are pissed then?
That could be, and in a state where they're actually regulated and have to pay big bucks for a license, that would be a motivator.
They object on ethical reasons but are still OK if you hire a guide who does the same thing? Interesting double-standard. I understand registered guides objecting and for that reason (as well as never intending to use one for myself), would certainly oppose scouting by drone. But if someone thinks selling coordinates somehow holds a lower ethical ground than hiring a guide, they're not looking at the end result - same, same.
Post by: bobcat on August 31, 2017, 01:00:09 PM
http://www.monstermuleys.com/hunt-consulting-scouting/
Here's another Wyoming scouting service in which they use airplanes to locate trophy animals:
http://wescout4u.com/public-land-scouting-packages/wyoming-scouting-packages/
Post by: boneaddict on August 31, 2017, 01:11:01 PM
I know folks have suggested I do it. I have no interest.
Post by: Rainier10 on August 31, 2017, 01:25:00 PM
Post by: lord grizzly on August 31, 2017, 02:36:28 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on August 31, 2017, 02:51:28 PM
I guess I never thought of people actually doing it as a business. I wish we'd all lose our cell phones....... :)
Post by: Bob33 on August 31, 2017, 02:54:00 PM
Wait - should I shoot, or make a call to report the coordinates for a $10K finder's fee?
Post by: optic2 on August 31, 2017, 04:01:13 PM
Post by: jjhunter on August 31, 2017, 04:05:19 PM
Magazines
MRS
Huntin Fool
Epic Outdoors
GoHunt
Outfitters
Drop Camps
Scouting packages
DIY maps
Seems like it only becomes an issue when big critters are involved.
Post by: greenhead_killer on August 31, 2017, 04:11:52 PM
Post by: idaho guy on August 31, 2017, 04:12:59 PM
Hunting and fishing information has been sold for years in one form or another. I have no issue with it.
Magazines
MRS
Huntin Fool
Epic Outdoors
GoHunt
Outfitters
Drop Camps
Scouting packages
DIY maps
Seems like it only becomes an issue when big critters are involved.
:yeah: I see no problem with it either or any difference from what has already been done. Like it or not hunting for some people is becoming a money game. I actually enjoy the scouting part of the hunt but if I was going blind out of state and did not have the time to scout this seems like a reasonable deal. You still have to hunt and they are not tying bucks up to trees
Post by: dreadi on August 31, 2017, 04:30:12 PM
Post by: Stein on August 31, 2017, 05:41:10 PM
This is what prompted them to write the proposed new law:
http://www.monstermuleys.com/hunt-consulting-scouting/
Here's another Wyoming scouting service in which they use airplanes to locate trophy animals:
http://wescout4u.com/public-land-scouting-packages/wyoming-scouting-packages/
Quote
In my estimation, my services can improve your odds of harvesting a "special" buck by 4000%
So, if you have a 10% chance of harvesting a great buck and you pay him, your chances go up to 400%! That's worth the money right there. :chuckle:
Post by: goldenhtr on August 31, 2017, 05:59:57 PM
before hiking over there. What this first guy does is no different than a guide going in in the summer and finding animals and then taking in clients by horse or mule to hunt those animals he scouted. :twocents:
http://www.monstermuleys.com/hunt-consulting-scouting/ (http://www.monstermuleys.com/hunt-consulting-scouting/)
Post by: Stein on August 31, 2017, 06:07:24 PM
With airplanes, it seems no different if you are in the plane of if a guy is texting you coordinates and pics. One is legal and the other isn't (as of now).
That said, how would the proposed law be enforced?
My vote would be to just let it go.
Post by: OutHouse on September 01, 2017, 02:13:24 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 01, 2017, 02:30:57 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 01, 2017, 02:36:29 PM
Post by: Tbar on September 01, 2017, 03:10:18 PM
You've waited 20 years to draw the coveted tag. The quest of a lifetime, the monster bull is in your sights.Have your kid shoot it! Way more satisfying.(if they have the tag) :chuckle:
Wait - should I shoot, or make a call to report the coordinates for a $10K finder's fee?
Post by: Tbar on September 01, 2017, 03:18:12 PM
Post by: JLS on September 04, 2017, 02:57:23 PM
Outfitters are regulated in Wyoming. They are limited in number, and I believe they are also limited in the number of clients they can serve in a year. This is also true of the federal land agency they operate on (i.e. Forest Service, BLM, etc.) Outfitters are regulated for a number of reasons, one of which is the increased pressure on a resource.
Allowing people to operate in an unregulated manner, where they sell coordinates/locations of trophy animals is directly placing a higher level of pressure on these animals. This is no different than offering an unregulated number of drop camps in an area, packing services, etc. The end result is more pressure on trophy deer during a season and ultimately a reduced level of opportunity because of it.
I personally know one of the folks involved in this legislative effort, and I can guarantee you his efforts are in NO way geared towards protecting outfitters. He is public land, DIY to the core and will always be so. This is about addressing the impacts the Doyle Moss's of the world have on trophy quality animals.
Post by: wheels on September 04, 2017, 02:59:22 PM
Post by: Bob33 on September 04, 2017, 04:44:16 PM
how could this even be enforcedEnforcement responds to the Craigslist ad. When he offers to sell coordinates he is charged.
Post by: Netminder01 on September 04, 2017, 05:43:30 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on September 04, 2017, 06:16:42 PM
Post by: dewandgin on September 04, 2017, 08:36:23 PM
I support this effort...hunting is becoming too commercialized, steps to reduce the monetization of wildlife will benefit sportsmen long-term. I have no issue with regulated guiding as it may be the only way some folks could access the wildlife we all own. :twocents:
:tup:
Post by: idaho guy on September 05, 2017, 12:27:37 PM
I see some folks view this as protectionism for outfitters. I disagree. While it does secondarily serve as a protection for LICENSED outfitters, it is also relieving pressure on a finite and regulated resource (trophy mule deer).
Outfitters are regulated in Wyoming. They are limited in number, and I believe they are also limited in the number of clients they can serve in a year. This is also true of the federal land agency they operate on (i.e. Forest Service, BLM, etc.) Outfitters are regulated for a number of reasons, one of which is the increased pressure on a resource.
Allowing people to operate in an unregulated manner, where they sell coordinates/locations of trophy animals is directly placing a higher level of pressure on these animals. This is no different than offering an unregulated number of drop camps in an area, packing services, etc. The end result is more pressure on trophy deer during a season and ultimately a reduced level of opportunity because of it.
I personally know one of the folks involved in this legislative effort, and I can guarantee you his efforts are in NO way geared towards protecting outfitters. He is public land, DIY to the core and will always be so. This is about addressing the impacts the Doyle Moss's of the world have on trophy quality animals.
Well said that is a great point that I had not thought of. I was against this new law before I was for it! Ha ha Seemed harmless but I can definitely see this point. Thanks for posting, sometimes you have to think things through a little bit more than I do!