Post by: Fish Carver on February 09, 2018, 05:00:19 PM
I am new to muzzleloading, actually I don't even have one yet. I have wanted to muzzleload hunt for several years, after borrowing one years ago and taking a deer. Unfortunately some family financial challenges kept me from being able to buy the equipment.
I now have saved enough to get a Disc Extreme. I have decided I want the disc extreme or mountaineer (if I can set aside a little more). I would prefer one of the bolt actions over a plunger style. I know Washington is considering allowing 209 primers for ignition. If this happens, I would prefer to be able to use the 209's and Blackhorn 209 powder. I have a friend who has used it and loves it, and I like the idea of not having to clean the barrel quite as often when shooting. I am an accuracy freak, and know I will need to spend time at the range working up a good load, but my free time is extremely limited as I am working extra to catch back up. I only state this so you know why I am set on certain things.
My confusion is as follows:
1. the disc extreme only comes in western or full plastic jacket. From what I have read on several forums, the full plastic jacket appears not to consistently ignite the powder charge using BH 209, and the bare primer setup is recommended. I am curious why the plastic jacket setup doesn't work as well as the bare primer.
I know you can buy a conversion kit for the disc extreme to shoot bare primers, but the one review didn't think highly of it. I know one persons review is limited to make any decision on, so I wondered what any of you might know on this issue.
2. the mountaineer is available in all ignition types, but is $160 more. I don't know if I can swing that.
Is it worth buying the western disc extreme and then the bare 209 primer conversion kit? I almost have that amount saved.
3. Is the mountaineer worth the additional cost, and if so, why?
I would also like to put on the peep sight setup many of you talk about.
I am hoping my Sportsman's warehouse gift card and Cabela's points will get most of the supplies I need - lol.
Could anyone give me a list of the essentials? I think I have a good idea after the reading I have done, but would like to make sure.
I apologize for being long winded, I just am excited I might finally get to pull the trigger on this (pun intended).
I probably will have more questions, but will stop for now.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Post by: SeaRun1 on February 09, 2018, 06:20:17 PM
I hope Sabotloader comes on to offer up his knowledge on the 209 conversion as I am interested too.
SR1
Post by: Sabotloader on February 10, 2018, 08:09:40 AM
Hi all,
I am new to muzzleloading, actually I don't even have one yet. I have wanted to muzzleload hunt for several years, after borrowing one years ago and taking a deer. Unfortunately some family financial challenges kept me from being able to buy the equipment.
I now have saved enough to get a Disc Extreme. I have decided I want the disc extreme or mountaineer (if I can set aside a little more). I would prefer one of the bolt actions over a plunger style. I know Washington is considering allowing 209 primers for ignition. If this happens, I would prefer to be able to use the 209's and Blackhorn 209 powder. I have a friend who has used it and loves it, and I like the idea of not having to clean the barrel quite as often when shooting. I am an accuracy freak, and know I will need to spend time at the range working up a good load, but my free time is extremely limited as I am working extra to catch back up. I only state this so you know why I am set on certain things.
My confusion is as follows:
1. the disc extreme only comes in western or full plastic jacket. From what I have read on several forums, the full plastic jacket appears not to consistently ignite the powder charge using BH 209, and the bare primer setup is recommended. I am curious why the plastic jacket setup doesn't work as well as the bare primer.
Any of the Knight bolt guns can use all 3 ignition systems - caps - FPJ (full plastic jackets) or NFPJ (bare Primer). Each of the ignition systems will require a different bolt housing and breech plug.
BH-209 is really a smokeless based powder (Potassium and Sulphur to qualify it as a BP sub) added and requires the rifle to maintain constant pressure in the breech for ignition. At times a FPJ can stretch enough as the pressure builds to allow gas to escape the breech - allowing ignition to stop. It does not happen a lot but can especially if you re-use the jackets.
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I know you can buy a conversion kit for the disc extreme to shoot bare primers, but the one review didn't think highly of it. I know one persons review is limited to make any decision on, so I wondered what any of you might know on this issue.
Personally I think the NFPJ - bare primer - is the only way to go if you are going to shoot 209's. The system is nearly fool proof and can be made clean - so there is no blow back in the breech. I am in Idaho and I do hunt the regular rifle season with a ML - my Knights for that season all have the Bare primer system installed.
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2. the mountaineer is available in all ignition types, but is $160 more. I don't know if I can swing that.
Is it worth buying the western disc extreme and then the bare 209 primer conversion kit? I almost have that amount saved.
3. Is the mountaineer worth the additional cost, and if so, why?
I do not know what all or how you might use your rifle... but if Washington approves the use of the 209's - then today you would order a 'Colorado' legal rifle. That will have 209 ignition and open sights. If Washington approves I am sure Knight will label the rifle Colorado/Washington approved.
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I would also like to put on the peep sight setup many of you talk about.
I am hoping my Sportsman's warehouse gift card and Cabela's points will get most of the supplies I need - lol.
Could anyone give me a list of the essentials? I think I have a good idea after the reading I have done, but would like to make sure.
This is a DISC Extreme that I have set up to be Western legal... with a Williams FP peep sight and Williams front sight parts...
(https://s26.postimg.org/55zgjluft/Knight_DISC_Extreme_-_Western.jpg)
(https://s26.postimg.org/x63k3vigp/Williams_Front_Sight.jpg)
In this case the rifle has the Western ignition installed - but to make it Colorado or impending Washing legal it would be a matter of changing bolt housings and breech plug.
The bolt and breech area would look something like this... Not the best picture but I thing you can see how it works.
(https://s26.postimg.org/jw2en2wc9/Mount_Bolt_Nose.jpg)
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I apologize for being long winded, I just am excited I might finally get to pull the trigger on this (pun intended).
I probably will have more questions, but will stop for now.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
You might also check out https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/inline-muzzleloaders.html?shopbybrand_brand=4 - they seem to have really good prices on what you might be looking for....
Also -ifn you have more questions and 'you will' ask away....
mike
Post by: Fish Carver on February 10, 2018, 09:05:38 AM
Sabotloader, do you think the Mountaineer is worth the difference in price? It would stretch my budget, but I will probably only be able to get one muzzleloader for a very long time. I hunt SE Washington around and in the Blue Mountains. Deer in farm country or the foothills primarily, and elk in the mountains. I hike a lot, glass and stalk mostly. I hope to start hunting in Idaho in a year, but may start with a modern rifle until I get to know some areas.
Also, so from what I read in your reply, the bare 209 conversion kit has worked fine for the disc extreme? I can only find western and full plastic jacket extremes, so would have to buy the conversion kit from Knight.
Is there a good list of muzzleloader necessities somewhere? I think I have good idea what to get, but don't want to forget anything.
Thanks again.
Post by: Sabotloader on February 10, 2018, 11:27:35 AM
Thanks for the replies.
Sabotloader, do you think the Mountaineer is worth the difference in price?
The Mountaineer is a really - really good rifle. but I really do not like the stock that comes with them. for me they are some what bulky and not fit my hunting style.
I have a Mountaineer....
(https://s26.postimg.org/58i7d6uux/New_45_FT.jpg)
But shortly after getting it I switch stocks to just a regular DISC Extreme stock. The best stock is the one that comes with the Ultra-Lite. It is a Kevlar stock and really light - but Knight does not sell them as a re-sale item.
(https://s26.postimg.org/hlv1k3kjd/Kevlar-45_FT.jpg)
Shooting wise - not sure you would be able to find a lot if difference between the two...
The real difference comes in the Mountaineer Ultra-Lite...
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It would stretch my budget, but I will probably only be able to get one muzzleloader for a very long time. I hunt SE Washington around and in the Blue Mountains.
Hunted there myself wit h my son-in-law - well I should say he hunted I walked around with him... He has a cabin in the Blues above Walla Walla.
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Deer in farm country or the foothills primarily, and elk in the mountains. I hike a lot, glass and stalk mostly.
Same here that is why I would choose the DISC Extreme.... have you ever shot a thumbhole stock? I am old really old - and I never thought I would like the switch - but it does make a difference - I really like it now... If you haven't you should come up to Moscow and do some shooting at the farm.
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I hope to start hunting in Idaho in a year, but may start with a modern rifle until I get to know some areas.
Again I am old but have made the switch to ML's even during the regular rifle season.... and I have some really good center fires collecting dust!
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Also, so from what I read in your reply, the bare 209 conversion kit has worked fine for the disc extreme? I can only find western and full plastic jacket extremes, so would have to buy the conversion kit from Knight.
The bare primer system is available in a Knight DISC Extreme. Where are you looking for the rifle at? I know Sportsmans carries them may not right now but they will have soon.
Might call Muzzle-loaders.com and ask the guys there about getting one with bare primer ignition and open sights... It is going to become a very popular item with them soon - I hope!
Well shoot you are right - they do not list them any place I look - but I think that is a temporary thing. I have been told they do not have any breech plugs for them at the moment... should have them shortly... Let me see if I can find out more about this on Monday...
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Is there a good list of muzzleloader necessities somewhere? I think I have good idea what to get, but don't want to forget anything.
Thanks again.
I can give you a general list... but it is all inclusive and you do not need every thing for sure...
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=20963
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=19040
Make a drive up and we can do some shooting! or check your PM's
mike
Post by: Brushcrawler on February 10, 2018, 04:05:15 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on February 10, 2018, 04:12:59 PM
Thank you Sabotloader for the wealth of information you share on this site!
Really glad to share the information... I was a teacher/coach for several years so sharing seems normal to me - all day every day...
mike