Post by: bigtex on March 08, 2018, 07:51:24 PM
Interior spokeswoman Heather Swift said that the project to fix the three double doors was requested by career facilities and security officials as part of a decade-long overhaul of the historic building, which was completed in 1936.
Zinke "was not aware of this contract but agrees that this is a lot of money for demo, install, materials, and labor," Swift said in an email about the work, first reported by the Associated Press.
Joe Nassar, the director of Interior's office of facilities, said the work was needed to stop water from coming into Zinke's office during rain storms, which was damaging wooden floors in the office. Nassar said bottom panels of the old doors had been temporarily fixed with cardboard and duct tape and were replaced by fiberglass doors with new locks.
Swift blamed the cost of the fix on rules for historic preservation and procurement.
Environmentalists decried the expense, which was more than double the median U.S. household income in 2017, according to the Census Bureau.
Ken Cook, president of the Environmental Working Group, said, "Taxpayer dollars don't grow on trees, but Mr. Zinke and his fellow grifters in the Trump administration repeatedly raid the federal treasury like it does."
Zinke is being investigated by the U.S. Office of Special Counsel on whether be violated the Hatch Act, which bars executive branch employees from engaging in political activity, when he gave a speech to a professional hockey team owned by a political donor last year.
He is also being investigated by the Interior Department's inspector general in connection with travels and the use of private charter flights.
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/03/08/us-interior-dept-pays-dollar139000-to-fix-doors-in-zinkes-office/23381097/
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 07:54:19 PM
Come on Bigtex, it's Zinke, he's pro-hunting, he can do no wrong to the members of this site. :chuckle:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 08, 2018, 08:03:43 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 08, 2018, 08:08:16 PM
He just goes from one blunder to the next. $139K, nobody in his chain raised any flags? :dunno:
Speaking of raising flags: "Interior Secretary Makes His Staff Raise a Special Flag When He's Around" http://time.com/4980898/ryan-zinke-interior-department-flag-ritual-donald-trump/ :chuckle:
Post by: Stein on March 08, 2018, 08:41:23 PM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on March 08, 2018, 08:50:03 PM
Of course, they never got investigated because they just didn’t hire IGs.
:dunno:
Oh, Zinke sucks.
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 08:53:52 PM
Just think, those same doors probably would have been seven figures with the last administration.Tell that to the people who have been investigated by Inspector Generals for the past decades. Each department has their own IG staffed by investigators.
Of course, they never got investigated because they just didn’t hire IGs.
:dunno:
Oh, Zinke sucks.
Post by: lord grizzly on March 08, 2018, 09:04:40 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 08, 2018, 09:10:15 PM
I’ve literally seen guys get paid 80 bucks and hour to sweep the floor. You can thank your local union
If he was getting $80/hour, he wasn't in a union
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 08, 2018, 09:18:41 PM
You guys have obviously never worked on any government contracts. I’ve literally seen guys get paid 80 bucks and hour to sweep the floor. You can thank your local unionI've known guys with the national park that had to drive from a head quarters to more remote work location, just under 4 hrs each way. Get there and do an hour of work, then drive back. Park had a cabin there, but weren't authorized to use because of per diem. Took 3 weeks to do a 2 day job. :dunno:
Post by: bigtex on March 08, 2018, 09:24:56 PM
:yeah:You guys have obviously never worked on any government contracts. I’ve literally seen guys get paid 80 bucks and hour to sweep the floor. You can thank your local unionI've known guys with the national park that had to drive from a head quarters to more remote work location, just under 4 hrs each way. Get there and do an hour of work, then drive back. Park had a cabin there, but weren't authorized to use because of per diem. Took 3 weeks to do a 2 day job. :dunno:
The NPS is famous for that. They actually have a cap on how much each park can spend on travel/per diem each year.
Post by: KFhunter on March 08, 2018, 09:26:01 PM
So this was well in the works looooong before Zinky, it's not like he was putting in rape doors and came up with this project all on his own. Why all the fuss?
Still, I'm curious why so much $ That's a question for the facilities and security officials
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 08, 2018, 09:32:29 PM
Still, I'm curious why so much $ That's a question for the facilities and security officials
Without knowing anything about the doors, it's impossible to guess. Large, period correct double doors could run in the tens of thousands per set if they had to be custom made.
Post by: KFhunter on March 08, 2018, 09:35:35 PM
Still, I'm curious why so much $ That's a question for the facilities and security officials
Without knowing anything about the doors, it's impossible to guess. Large, period correct double doors could run in the tens of thousands per set if they had to be custom made.
Hence my curiosity, rather than condemnation.
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 09:37:29 PM
So this was well in the works looooong before Zinky, it's not like he was putting in rape doors and came up with this project all on his own. Why all the fuss?Maybe because Zinke has been the advocate for cuts within DOI, yet apparently he forgot to ask for cuts on his door replacement.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 08, 2018, 09:39:14 PM
Still, I'm curious why so much $ That's a question for the facilities and security officials
Without knowing anything about the doors, it's impossible to guess. Large, period correct double doors could run in the tens of thousands per set if they had to be custom made.
Hence my curiosity, rather than condemnation.
I understood and was agree with you.
Post by: KFhunter on March 08, 2018, 09:40:25 PM
Seriously though, if the building is "historical" then it has to meet certain guidelines.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 08, 2018, 09:41:44 PM
So this was well in the works looooong before Zinky, it's not like he was putting in rape doors and came up with this project all on his own. Why all the fuss?Maybe because Zinke has been the advocate for cuts within DOI, yet apparently he forgot to ask for cuts on his door replacement.
Not knowning the scope or stage of work it is impossible to guess, but the project has been going on for a decade.
Post by: timberfaller on March 08, 2018, 09:44:23 PM
It is also a "historical site" or better known as Hysterical Site!! Which means it cost ten times the normal way of doing things!
They have to find the exact replacement wood, has to look exactly like the rest of the building etc etc!! Government contract so prevailing wage has to be met, all EPA regs are enforced, etc etc.
Oh ya, did we forget this in DC??
There is a USFS building on Mt. Baker that cost the taxpayers a whole LOT MORE then Zinke's doors and the Democrats didn't complain about that being a WASTE!!!
Funny what gets "people" going these days!! :o
Post by: Bob33 on March 08, 2018, 09:45:03 PM
"Interior spokeswoman Heather Swift said that the project to fix the three double doors was requested by career facilities and security officials as part of a decade-long overhaul of the historic building, which was completed in 1936.
Zinke "was not aware of this contract but agrees that this is a lot of money for demo, install, materials, and labor," Swift said in an email about the work, first reported by the Associated Press."
Post by: KFhunter on March 08, 2018, 09:45:37 PM
https://www.usaspending.gov/#/award/5381101
Post by: bigtex on March 08, 2018, 09:47:13 PM
He spent it?He is the head of the agency. When sh** hits the fan it's his head on the line. When things go good, he's there to take credit. Agency directors get canned all the time for screw ups of their subordinates they personally had nothing to do with.
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 09:48:00 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 08, 2018, 09:48:27 PM
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 09:48:38 PM
:yeah: :tup:He spent it?He is the head of the agency. When sh** hits the fan it's his head on the line. When things go good, he's there to take credit. Agency directors get canned all the time for screw ups of their subordinates they personally had nothing to do with.
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 09:50:26 PM
Here's the actual contractI can't seem to locate the actual contract award date
https://www.usaspending.gov/#/award/5381101
Post by: Bob33 on March 08, 2018, 09:50:56 PM
Being responsible for, and implying that he made a conscious decision to spend the funds are two different things.He spent it?He is the head of the agency. When sh** hits the fan it's his head on the line. When things go good, he's there to take credit. Agency directors get canned all the time for screw ups of their subordinates they personally had nothing to do with.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 08, 2018, 09:56:27 PM
It's no bid contract without competition.
How can you tell that?
Post by: bigtex on March 08, 2018, 09:57:50 PM
It says it under the additional info portionIt's no bid contract without competition.
How can you tell that?
"NOT AVAILABLE FOR COMPETITION"
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 09:59:55 PM
The performance date begins 9/29/17 which happens to be the day before the end of the 2017 federal budget. With my govt budget background this leads me to believe the contract was awarded in 2017 and had to be spent with 2017 budget year money. :twocents:Here's the actual contractI can't seem to locate the actual contract award date
https://www.usaspending.gov/#/award/5381101
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 08, 2018, 10:01:51 PM
It says it under the additional info portionIt's no bid contract without competition.
How can you tell that?
"NOT AVAILABLE FOR COMPETITION"
Got it.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 08, 2018, 10:07:26 PM
I don’t know how to fix it and many other people on the ground level see the inequality of govt. vs. private sector projects. Rest assured that if someone wants a FOIA accounting of the costs of three doors then they can get it to analyze the full economic analysis of the project and there will likely be no i missing a dot or t missing its cross that anyone can make a case about. The cost of $139,000 for the doors seems stupid, but I am sure it is justifiable. This is certainly something needing addressed, but is not a quick fix.
On to Zinke’s travel. There is a big stink about him charging travel to a fire budget, I would bet dimes to dollars that he never knew anything about charging to that specific account. Budget is a whole different level from him and if he sets up his own travel and codes the budget account then he is working well below his level. He probably has a thousand different budgets he can code to and if it was determined to travel on a budget with funds from the overall DOI budget then that should be acceptable. Most of the budgets are fluid coming from the overall budget projections and can be apportioned as necessary.
Post by: idahohuntr on March 08, 2018, 10:13:56 PM
The flag thing I believe is just part of his military background...I see a lot of SES flags put on display when senior civilians (much lower rank than a cabinet secretary) are present at government offices. If a former SEAL and current Secretary wants a flag flown when he's in the building...put the damn flag up. :dunno:
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 08, 2018, 10:14:36 PM
What most people don’t recognize is that the government (excluding true graft and big military) is crippled by public sector litigation that has led to the Government making policy to be as blameless as possible for any instance. The doors probably had a 10 page engineering spec so that if there was ever an 8.0 earthquake the frames would not warp and scare a visitor giving them PTSD resulting in a multi million dollar settlement. Then the IDIQ contractors take their huge cut to sub out the actual work at Davis Bacon wage. The agencies are not perfect, but between unions, worker protection laws, budgetary line item limits, litigation, historic site requirements, and policy (based on law) it is much more expensive for the govt. to conduct business than in the private sector. There are many projects like this that cost vastly more than they should. The govt. in general is treated as a social program to support the economy.
I don’t know how to fix it and many other people on the ground level see the inequality of govt. vs. private sector projects. Rest assured that if someone wants a FOIA accounting of the costs of three doors then they can get it to analyze the full economic analysis of the project and there will likely be no i missing a dot or t missing its cross that anyone can make a case about. The cost of $139,000 for the doors seems stupid, but I am sure it is justifiable. This is certainly something needing addressed, but is not a quick fix.
On to Zinke’s travel. There is a big stink about him charging travel to a fire budget, I would bet dimes to dollars that he never knew anything about charging to that specific account. Budget is a whole different level from him and if he sets up his own travel and codes the budget account then he is working well below his level. He probably has a thousand different budgets he can code to and if it was determined to travel on a budget with funds from the overall DOI budget then that should be acceptable. Most of the budgets are fluid coming from the overall budget projections and can be apportioned as necessary.
I don't like Zinke or his DoI, but I think your analysis of the items you've listed is probably spot on.
Post by: bigtex on March 08, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
The flag thing I believe is just part of his military background...I see a lot of SES flags put on display when senior civilians (much lower rank than a cabinet secretary) are present at government offices. If a former SEAL and current Secretary wants a flag flown when he's in the building...put the damn flag up. :dunno:Really? Because I've never seen such a thing. Only a few positions actually have their own flag as it as.
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 08, 2018, 10:31:01 PM
bigtex - I have never spent much time in DC, but the little time I did spend there showed me it is a different place then the rest of the US and there are things there I have never seen in the 50 states
Post by: idahohuntr on March 08, 2018, 10:46:45 PM
Yep...very common in DoD. There is a flag for SES members...the same for every agency.The flag thing I believe is just part of his military background...I see a lot of SES flags put on display when senior civilians (much lower rank than a cabinet secretary) are present at government offices. If a former SEAL and current Secretary wants a flag flown when he's in the building...put the damn flag up. :dunno:Really? Because I've never seen such a thing. Only a few positions actually have their own flag as it as.
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 10:47:15 PM
There are a lot of good traditions going by the wayside in this day, if Zinke wants to resurrect one then good for him.If you're referring the SES flag thing, SES positions are nationwide not just in DC. And I agree with Bigtex, I've never heard of an SES or even higher wanting a flag flown when they're around.
bigtex - I have never spent much time in DC, but the little time I did spend there showed me it is a different place then the rest of the US and there are things there I have never seen in the 50 states
Post by: olyguy79 on March 08, 2018, 10:47:55 PM
In DoD, makes sense. But not the civilian world.Yep...very common in DoD. There is a flag for SES members...the same for every agency.The flag thing I believe is just part of his military background...I see a lot of SES flags put on display when senior civilians (much lower rank than a cabinet secretary) are present at government offices. If a former SEAL and current Secretary wants a flag flown when he's in the building...put the damn flag up. :dunno:Really? Because I've never seen such a thing. Only a few positions actually have their own flag as it as.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on March 08, 2018, 11:10:23 PM
Yep, in the works long before Zinke was put in charge!! Some people jump before they read the whole story!!
It is also a "historical site" or better known as Hysterical Site!! Which means it cost ten times the normal way of doing things!
They have to find the exact replacement wood, has to look exactly like the rest of the building etc etc!! Government contract so prevailing wage has to be met, all EPA regs are enforced, etc etc.
Oh ya, did we forget this in DC??
There is a USFS building on Mt. Baker that cost the taxpayers a whole LOT MORE then Zinke's doors and the Democrats didn't complain about that being a WASTE!!!
Funny what gets "people" going these days!! :o
Which building?
Post by: j_h_nimrod on March 08, 2018, 11:58:56 PM
There are a lot of good traditions going by the wayside in this day, if Zinke wants to resurrect one then good for him.
bigtex - I have never spent much time in DC, but the little time I did spend there showed me it is a different place then the rest of the US and there are things there I have never seen in the 50 states
I was referring to traditions in general, not SES flags. If there is a tradition a Secretary or someone else in a senior position that wants to resurrect or try and create then so be it. What is the issue with doing so?
If you're referring the SES flag thing, SES positions are nationwide not just in DC. And I agree with Bigtex, I've never heard of an SES or even higher wanting a flag flown when they're around.
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on March 09, 2018, 01:10:34 AM
Post by: ctwiggs1 on March 09, 2018, 05:08:42 AM
I’m not a huge fan of Zinke but it is nice to see someone who looks at both sides.
The two biggest anti-Zinke guys on this thread worked in Olympia. Can you imagine if the Capitol building needed any kind of Reno? Their doors are all custom, oversized quarter sawn oak if i recall correctly. That’s big money, especially if you’re in an urban environment.
Post by: Russ McDonald on March 09, 2018, 05:27:30 AM
I was thinking more along the lines of which buildings?Yep, in the works long before Zinke was put in charge!! Some people jump before they read the whole story!!
It is also a "historical site" or better known as Hysterical Site!! Which means it cost ten times the normal way of doing things!
They have to find the exact replacement wood, has to look exactly like the rest of the building etc etc!! Government contract so prevailing wage has to be met, all EPA regs are enforced, etc etc.
Oh ya, did we forget this in DC??
There is a USFS building on Mt. Baker that cost the taxpayers a whole LOT MORE then Zinke's doors and the Democrats didn't complain about that being a WASTE!!!
Funny what gets "people" going these days!! :o
Which building?
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Post by: davk on March 09, 2018, 07:11:50 PM
Post by: westsidehntr on March 13, 2018, 09:31:02 PM