Post by: 4fletch on March 12, 2018, 09:22:59 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on March 12, 2018, 09:51:19 PM
Post by: 4fletch on March 12, 2018, 09:52:49 PM
Post by: jrebel on March 12, 2018, 09:53:05 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on March 12, 2018, 10:02:38 PM
In fact I would like to see no cow tags for three years for anyone. And than come back with half as many if they start back up.
Post by: ghosthunter on March 12, 2018, 10:06:54 PM
Which might be good all around.
In fact my camp of six hunters will not muzzy hunt elk this year unless someone draws a cow tag.
Hunting spikes is like hunting unicorns.
Would rather set up a deer camp a week early and hunt grouse,yotes than hunt for spike only. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on March 12, 2018, 10:33:33 PM
Post by: jrebel on March 12, 2018, 10:47:27 PM
Post by: JWEBB on March 13, 2018, 12:04:51 AM
Post by: lord grizzly on March 13, 2018, 05:53:36 AM
Post by: 92xj on March 13, 2018, 06:11:43 AM
Post by: Stein on March 13, 2018, 06:41:17 AM
Unfortunately, if I had a magic window into the future 15 years and I saw the WDFW regs and residents had to draw for an elk tag I wouldn't be surprised. There are an absolute ton of hunters in this state and relatively small herd numbers. Even if nobody shoots a spike, the raw pressure that puts on the herd immediately post rut takes its toll I would imagine.
That said, a secondary goal should be a balance of opportunity between the seasons.
Post by: Crunchy on March 13, 2018, 06:52:03 AM
Post by: bolsen on March 13, 2018, 07:48:43 AM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on March 13, 2018, 07:56:44 AM
I ask, not to be scarcatic or confrontational, but am basing my question on this response when the OP was asked a specific question:
What units?
I wasn't informed
Post by: bobcat on March 13, 2018, 08:12:41 AM
The units being referred to here would be 175, 328, 329, 336, 340, 352, 356, and 364.
Post by: bowhunterty on March 13, 2018, 08:32:01 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 13, 2018, 08:53:21 AM
I wasn't informedhttps://wdfw.wa.gov/about/regulations/2018/wsr_18-03-177.pdf
Post by: jstone on March 13, 2018, 09:37:28 AM
Post by: Mfowl on March 13, 2018, 09:38:38 AM
Post by: X-Force on March 13, 2018, 09:51:11 AM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 13, 2018, 10:00:44 AM
It was bound to happen, with all the tags they gave out a few years ago. Also I know there were a lot of people out there bow hunting and taking crazy shots. Not being responsible. That hurts the archery group to. Doesn’t surprise me.I know about two dozen former westside hunters that moved over east specifically for the cow/spike allowance. They got cows/spikes regularly enough, but what surprised me was how many animals lost. Hunting eastside with a bow in early sept they would lose maybe two or three for each one recovered (some were unconfirmed hits, some blood was found, some the animals were found but too late and bloated). Enough animals to get enough shots to get animals. When they did westside rifle, finding a legal bull is tough enough most wouldn't get a shot but every 3-4 years, so if something was lost it wasn't like they could just go after a few more the next day.
Post by: jstone on March 13, 2018, 10:10:49 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 13, 2018, 11:55:28 AM
if you loose that many animals please just stop archery hunting and go back to rifle.It was bound to happen, with all the tags they gave out a few years ago. Also I know there were a lot of people out there bow hunting and taking crazy shots. Not being responsible. That hurts the archery group to. Doesn’t surprise me.I know about two dozen former westside hunters that moved over east specifically for the cow/spike allowance. They got cows/spikes regularly enough, but what surprised me was how many animals lost. Hunting eastside with a bow in early sept they would lose maybe two or three for each one recovered (some were unconfirmed hits, some blood was found, some the animals were found but too late and bloated). Enough animals to get enough shots to get animals. When they did westside rifle, finding a legal bull is tough enough most wouldn't get a shot but every 3-4 years, so if something was lost it wasn't like they could just go after a few more the next day.
(Just a general statement not directed towards any one person)
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 13, 2018, 12:12:36 PM
It was bound to happen, with all the tags they gave out a few years ago. Also I know there were a lot of people out there bow hunting and taking crazy shots. Not being responsible. That hurts the archery group to. Doesn’t surprise me.I know about two dozen former westside hunters that moved over east specifically for the cow/spike allowance. They got cows/spikes regularly enough, but what surprised me was how many animals lost. Hunting eastside with a bow in early sept they would lose maybe two or three for each one recovered (some were unconfirmed hits, some blood was found, some the animals were found but too late and bloated). Enough animals to get enough shots to get animals. When they did westside rifle, finding a legal bull is tough enough most wouldn't get a shot but every 3-4 years, so if something was lost it wasn't like they could just go after a few more the next day.
Sorry and all due respects JH, but I've gotta call BS on this statement. I don't believe that the lost elk figure for archery is anywhere near 2 to 3 times the harvested elk figure and doubt it's even close to 1 for 1. If it were, there'd be dead elk all over the place and the whole woods would stink of rotting flesh.
As far as the restrictions are concerned, this is just the beginning. Lack of predator management is going to speed this process along. Hunters are no longer needed to control ungulate numbers even though hunters are the ones responsible for their former abundance.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on March 13, 2018, 12:23:56 PM
It was bound to happen, with all the tags they gave out a few years ago. Also I know there were a lot of people out there bow hunting and taking crazy shots. Not being responsible. That hurts the archery group to. Doesn’t surprise me.I know about two dozen former westside hunters that moved over east specifically for the cow/spike allowance. They got cows/spikes regularly enough, but what surprised me was how many animals lost. Hunting eastside with a bow in early sept they would lose maybe two or three for each one recovered (some were unconfirmed hits, some blood was found, some the animals were found but too late and bloated). Enough animals to get enough shots to get animals. When they did westside rifle, finding a legal bull is tough enough most wouldn't get a shot but every 3-4 years, so if something was lost it wasn't like they could just go after a few more the next day.
Sorry and all due respects JH, but I've gotta call BS on this statement. I don't believe that the lost elk figure for archery is anywhere near 2 to 3 times the harvested elk figure and doubt it's even close to 1 for 1. If it were, there'd be dead elk all over the place and the whole woods would stink of rotting flesh.
As far as the restrictions are concerned, this is just the beginning. Lack of predator management is going to speed this process along. Hunters are no longer needed to control ungulate numbers even though hunters are the ones responsible for their former abundance.
I think he is placing that number on the specific group of hunters he knows that travel over the mountains to hunt, not all archery hunters in general...
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 13, 2018, 12:39:02 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 13, 2018, 12:50:07 PM
Post by: baker5150 on March 13, 2018, 01:01:35 PM
if you loose that many animals please just stop archery hunting and go back to rifle.It was bound to happen, with all the tags they gave out a few years ago. Also I know there were a lot of people out there bow hunting and taking crazy shots. Not being responsible. That hurts the archery group to. Doesn’t surprise me.I know about two dozen former westside hunters that moved over east specifically for the cow/spike allowance. They got cows/spikes regularly enough, but what surprised me was how many animals lost. Hunting eastside with a bow in early sept they would lose maybe two or three for each one recovered (some were unconfirmed hits, some blood was found, some the animals were found but too late and bloated). Enough animals to get enough shots to get animals. When they did westside rifle, finding a legal bull is tough enough most wouldn't get a shot but every 3-4 years, so if something was lost it wasn't like they could just go after a few more the next day.
(Just a general statement not directed towards any one person)
Going back to Rifle won't help. This is an ethics issue, not an equipment issue.
Post by: The scout on March 13, 2018, 02:23:30 PM
Post by: stackemup on March 13, 2018, 07:23:32 PM
Post by: gonehuntin68 on March 13, 2018, 07:46:17 PM
Post by: Tbar on March 13, 2018, 08:06:49 PM
Love how we have to lose cow hunts so the natives can have more. Good call Washington. Sounds fair.Ignorant statement, but I have come to expect that from you in regards to native issues. This is a political move, period! It has to do with pressures in Olympia not Yakama. The agency and legislature are playing hunters like a fiddle. Divide and conquer user groups and alternative agendas are realized at a later date and time (by some).
Post by: buglebuster on March 13, 2018, 08:28:39 PM
Post by: teanawayslayer on March 13, 2018, 08:59:34 PM
I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lolisn’t that the truth
Post by: Tbar on March 13, 2018, 09:00:38 PM
I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lolBugle, I disagree. This move is without representation or justification. Did you read thie comments on the proposal? It's not just on this site where this move is questionable at best.
Post by: Limhangerslayer on March 13, 2018, 09:39:24 PM
I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lol:yeah: numbers are down, protect the cows. Pretty simple concept. I'd say get over it.
Post by: mfswallace on March 13, 2018, 09:56:40 PM
Love how we have to lose cow hunts so the natives can have more. Good call Washington. Sounds fair.Ignorant statement, but I have come to expect that from you in regards to native issues. This is a political move, period! It has to do with pressures in Olympia not Yakama. The agency and legislature are playing hunters like a fiddle. Divide and conquer user groups and alternative agendas are realized at a later date and time (by some).
So you're saying tribal hunters will be limited to less cows as well by this move? I agree with less harvest to help the herds but if it isn't across the board and without serious predator control what's the point :dunno:
Post by: Oh Mah on March 13, 2018, 10:10:13 PM
I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lolPerfect example for the need for a "like" button in the forum.
Post by: Tbar on March 13, 2018, 10:38:05 PM
It's not protect the cows. They will have a second straight year of cow harvest in the hundreds (unreported by your management agency). Oh wait show me damage harvest numbers by your beloved agency. Was it 350 (cows) in a single unit last year?I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lol:yeah: numbers are down, protect the cows. Pretty simple concept. I'd say get over it.
Post by: Special T on March 13, 2018, 10:40:16 PM
328 and 329 will still have early season antlerless opportunities it will change to a permit instead of general season. 100 permits.These 2 units generally have a 10-15% sucess rate in the general season. I don't hunt these units but know folks that do. For the most part this is fairly open country that is hard on archers. 2c
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Tbar on March 13, 2018, 10:41:09 PM
I believe Yakama limits cows after Dec 31st, right about the time the department ramps up damage harvest. The state will be still hammering cows for the next couple weeks as well.Love how we have to lose cow hunts so the natives can have more. Good call Washington. Sounds fair.Ignorant statement, but I have come to expect that from you in regards to native issues. This is a political move, period! It has to do with pressures in Olympia not Yakama. The agency and legislature are playing hunters like a fiddle. Divide and conquer user groups and alternative agendas are realized at a later date and time (by some).
So you're saying tribal hunters will be limited to less cows as well by this move? I agree with less harvest to help the herds but if it isn't across the board and without serious predator control what's the point :dunno:
Post by: Miles on March 14, 2018, 04:38:50 AM
With all the Californians moving north, you guys need a little more control in your lives.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 14, 2018, 05:04:00 AM
Post by: gonehuntin68 on March 14, 2018, 05:18:08 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 14, 2018, 07:55:21 AM
Post by: Netminder01 on March 14, 2018, 08:50:21 AM
As far as the restrictions are concerned, this is just the beginning. Lack of predator management is going to speed this process along. Hunters are no longer needed to control ungulate numbers even though hunters are the ones responsible for their former abundance.
A lot of truth in this post but it's not the only strategic pressure being placed to reduce hunting, access to land, funding, etc. It's directed to decrease hunting participation/attrition thus naturally reducing the economic benefits hunting and the supporting industries provide.
I don't have enough visibility to know which decisions on population management or weapons help meet long-term, balanced conservation efforts; I put my trust in the leadership of the state. Generally speaking, reducing options, limiting access, reducing licenses, and participation will have a significant impact on overall growth/health within WA and nationally. The industry doesn't matter; hunting, business or tech; grow or die.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 14, 2018, 09:15:16 AM
I don't have enough visibility to know which decisions on population management or weapons help meet long-term, balanced conservation efforts; I put my trust in the leadership of the state. Generally speaking, reducing options, limiting access, reducing licenses, and participation will have a significant impact on overall growth/health within WA and nationally. The industry doesn't matter; hunting, business or tech; grow or die.
There in lies the problem
Post by: dreamingbig on March 14, 2018, 12:22:46 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Netminder01 on March 14, 2018, 12:25:23 PM
I don't have enough visibility to know which decisions on population management or weapons help meet long-term, balanced conservation efforts; I put my trust in the leadership of the state. Generally speaking, reducing options, limiting access, reducing licenses, and participation will have a significant impact on overall growth/health within WA and nationally. The industry doesn't matter; hunting, business or tech; grow or die.
There in lies the problem
I'm not following, sorry.
Post by: et1702 on March 14, 2018, 12:48:31 PM
I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lol
Hey Bugle, how is it right? They say elk numbers are down, but in the same breath tell us no official survey has been done in many years. Just windshield tours of the feed stations. As late as Feb 2016, WDFW said we had 11,000 elk in the Yak heard. Then, in March 2017 they said herd had dropped to 8500. If this were true, we'd have had 2500 elk carcasses rotting in the woods. I didn't see them, did you. It would have been a literal bone yard in some of the units we all hunt.
I have game cams out every year in the unit we typically hunt and did not notice any drop in elk numbers, calf numbers, or bull numbers. Did anyone else. In fact, the last three years in a row we've notice both elk and deer numbers appear to be increasing in numbers.
WDFW is not basing this proposed action on any science, only speculation. We are all hunters here. A loss of opportunity for one user group, is a loss for all of us.
ET
Post by: PolarBear on March 14, 2018, 12:54:13 PM
I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lol:yeah:
I have been saying for years that they need to cut waaaaay back on the antlerless harvests of deer and elk.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 14, 2018, 12:56:18 PM
I find it comical on this website. Everyone complains that the wdfw isn’t managing properly, then when they do something right for a change everyone complains lol
The complaint is more that the cuts should be spread around between all three hunting methods. I don't hear anyone saying they don't want healthy elk herds or that with the proper biological evidence we shouldn't respond to population downswings. And, there's little evidence that this move IS proper wildlife management. It seems like more of a shot from the hip. :dunno:
Post by: gasman on March 14, 2018, 01:07:00 PM
Some people :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 14, 2018, 01:48:07 PM
All i can do is shake my head when read this thread :bdid:
Some people :bash: :bash: :bash:
You going to explain that at all? :dunno:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 14, 2018, 02:10:44 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 14, 2018, 02:30:13 PM
In the 6 Yakima GMUs, bowhunters take about 150 cows per year between the early and late season. Let's assume half in the early season...75 cows. There are 3050 elk hunters in these units that will be displaced to try and save 75 cows....and remember archery is low on allocation. No cuts to firearm and muzzy were proposed. It would be easy to lower muzzy tags by about 100 to have the same offset harvest and get resource allocation within objectives. That didn't occur.
This is a moving proposal at this time with many things being considered. If the elk herd is down as WDFW states, then all user groups must be adjusted fairly and per resource allocation. So far archery is taking the major brunt of the proposal. It will displace almost 5k hunters to other areas where cows can be hunted, causing issues in those areas. Then next year we will have to deal with adjusting seasons in those units. Not to mention resource allocation numbers will be out of whack next year causing us to make other major changes to get it within objective. I encourage bowhunters to attend the commission meeting Friday at 11am in Wenatchee to let your thoughts be known. WSB has been working hard on this for quite some time but outside influences have been thwarting our status quo effort.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 14, 2018, 02:33:36 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on March 14, 2018, 08:01:59 PM
Post by: emac on March 14, 2018, 08:44:05 PM
Each group gets their allocation percentage based on percentage of hunters. For example, archery is 27% of the elk hunters, so they get 27% of the harvest. Muzzy is 11%, so they get 11%. Firearm is 62% so they get 62%
So are the allocation percentages state wide or gmu specific.
I am just trying to figure out how that works.
So just for an example off of those numbers of wdfw wanted to harvest a 100 cows statewide or a specific gmu with a drawing than modern guys would apply for 67 cow tags muzzy 11 tags and archery 27 tags.
I am just using 100 as a easy example cause math isnt my strong point
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: dreamingbig on March 15, 2018, 10:09:01 AM
Each group gets their allocation percentage based on percentage of hunters. For example, archery is 27% of the elk hunters, so they get 27% of the harvest. Muzzy is 11%, so they get 11%. Firearm is 62% so they get 62%Thanks for bringing logic back into this discussion Shawn! Folks like to forget about the agreed upon resource allocation. I so wish I could be at the meeting on Friday but I couldn’t make it work with work schedule.
So are the allocation percentages state wide or gmu specific.
I am just trying to figure out how that works.
So just for an example off of those numbers of wdfw wanted to harvest a 100 cows statewide or a specific gmu with a drawing than modern guys would apply for 67 cow tags muzzy 11 tags and archery 27 tags.
I am just using 100 as a easy example cause math isnt my strong point
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: jstone on March 15, 2018, 11:31:53 AM
Post by: krapmit on March 15, 2018, 12:39:37 PM
With that said, there will be about 90% less pressure in early elk archery over there, so if you've got a bull tag and they hit the rut, it will be a damn good time!
Post by: bobcat on March 15, 2018, 01:52:10 PM
Post by: Calvin Rayborn on March 16, 2018, 11:52:14 PM
Dumb.....
:yeah:
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 18, 2018, 05:53:01 PM
Each group gets their allocation percentage based on percentage of hunters. For example, archery is 27% of the elk hunters, so they get 27% of the harvest. Muzzy is 11%, so they get 11%. Firearm is 62% so they get 62%
So are the allocation percentages state wide or gmu specific.
I am just trying to figure out how that works.
So just for an example off of those numbers of wdfw wanted to harvest a 100 cows statewide or a specific gmu with a drawing than modern guys would apply for 67 cow tags muzzy 11 tags and archery 27 tags.
I am just using 100 as a easy example cause math isnt my strong point
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 18, 2018, 05:54:45 PM
Shawn
way more cows are killed in late season when they're herded up witin a few miles of the feed stations in the yakima-are units I hunt. I don't see how eliminating cows early season archery but keeping it open late season makes sense? Can someone elaborate for me?
With that said, there will be about 90% less pressure in early elk archery over there, so if you've got a bull tag and they hit the rut, it will be a damn good time!
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 18, 2018, 05:56:14 PM
Shawn
Perhaps that is the primary reason- to decrease hunting pressure in those units during the early archery season. :dunno:
Post by: Buzz2401 on March 18, 2018, 06:45:11 PM
Post by: jstone on March 18, 2018, 06:46:40 PM
Post by: vandeman17 on March 18, 2018, 06:59:34 PM
I'm for eliminating antlerless elk harvest with a general archery tag. But I do think they should be allotted some antlerless permits.
What's your logic out of curiosity?
Post by: Tbar on March 18, 2018, 08:16:20 PM
Why would the archery pressure be the user group to be decreased? There are other user groups that pressure them as well. Wouldn't we decrease hunting pressure in the user group that is over allocated?I would guess you know the answer after the meeting over the weekend.
ShawnPerhaps that is the primary reason- to decrease hunting pressure in those units during the early archery season. :dunno:
Post by: dreamingbig on March 19, 2018, 05:45:50 PM
Going to be very few hunters hunting south of 90 in the cascades this year.
Interesting to note 80% of the comments to the changes in elk season were opposed. Oh and they haven’t counted the elk yet but they “feel” the herd is under objective. Gut feel is great biology!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bobcat on March 19, 2018, 05:50:36 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Miles on March 19, 2018, 05:58:07 PM
Plus the wolves need more food...
Post by: hughjorgan on March 19, 2018, 06:01:57 PM
What's the issue? Modern and muzzleloader have the same spike only season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well if the biologists feel that the herd isn’t doing well then why allow cow permits for any user group? Doesn’t seem like they are doing what is the best for the herd. Eliminate cows across the herd and let it rebound.
My guess the herd is fairing pretty well this winter and the take of cows was down substantially do to fires and lack of animals due to issuing to many cow tags to modern and muzzy seasons.
Post by: SuperX on March 19, 2018, 06:30:09 PM
Post by: bolsen on March 19, 2018, 06:45:31 PM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 19, 2018, 07:32:35 PM
While muzzy and firearm don't have a general season for cows, they get permits and are successful on them given the range and inherent advantages those weapons pose. Archery gets no permits and has a general season. In the end, it doesn't make a difference, only how many are killed and do they meet the quota or allocation for each user group. If there are no cows to be had, nobody gets them. It's really just simple math, but maybe not as simple to WDFW in this proposal. It lacks statistical logic and moves away from resource allocation, something we have adhered to for 20+ years.
Post by: dreamingbig on March 19, 2018, 07:37:50 PM
What's the issue? Modern and muzzleloader have the same spike only season.I really have to bite my tongue on everyone of your posts. I was taught if I can’t say anything nice then keep it to yourself so I will.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Obviously I know where you come from on this... you are loving the surge in MF opportunity vs. all others. Great. Good for you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gasman on March 19, 2018, 07:46:11 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 19, 2018, 07:47:51 PM
What's the issue? Modern and muzzleloader have the same spike only season.I really have to bite my tongue on everyone of your posts. I was taught if I can’t say anything nice then keep it to yourself so I will.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Obviously I know where you come from on this... you are loving the surge in MF opportunity vs. all others. Great. Good for you.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why bite your tongue? It was an honest question. IMO all cow elk hunting should be by permit only. That way the elk can be properly managed. I've sent many comments to the WDFW over the years asking for just this. And by the way, I hunt archery, muzzleloader, and modern firearm. Not sure why you thought I only care about modern firearm seasons.
Post by: gasman on March 19, 2018, 08:03:00 PM
Sept 8 to 14 spike only.
Sept 15 to 20, spike and cow.
Is this not the case?
Post by: NOCK NOCK on March 19, 2018, 09:16:41 PM
Give some time to hunt elk(even if only spikes) before the masses come in(For cows)
Post by: dreamingbig on March 19, 2018, 10:15:39 PM
From info I received, the early archery season has a change to it. To my understanding, they adopted to the following; (for the Yakima units, minus the clockum area)I wasn’t at the meeting but that wasn’t proposed by Jerry Nelson in his prepared presentation. I did see reference to that in suggested proposals from the gathered public input online.
Sept 8 to 14 spike only.
Sept 15 to 20, spike and cow.
Is this not the case?
The proposal as printed was only 20 or less cow tags for each unit with same spike only general season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Bucks2Ducks on March 20, 2018, 05:22:32 AM
There shouldn't be this issue with anterless hunting, but due to lack of predator management we are in this situation.
Post by: atfulldraw on March 20, 2018, 07:12:28 AM
It really blows my mind the number of people on here who want everything to go to permit only. Don't worry eventually it will. But until then feel free to go go hunt elk in AZ, CA, or UT once every decade.. :yeah:
There shouldn't be this issue with anterless hunting, but due to lack of predator management we are in this situation.
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 20, 2018, 08:01:30 AM
It really blows my mind the number of people on here who want everything to go to permit only. Don't worry eventually it will. But until then feel free to go go hunt elk in AZ, CA, or UT once every decade.. :yeah:
There shouldn't be this issue with anterless hunting, but due to lack of predator management we are in this situation.
So permit hunts only guys... You want to displace 5k hunters in these 8 gmu's for 170 permits... Where do you think those other 4800 archers will go? Crowd other units and cause resource issues? Not buy and go to another state? Be careful what you wish for. You'll be fixing other seasons for years to counteract this change with the problems it creates. The cows taken in a general archery season is a rather predictable small number but it gives huge opportunity for 5k people. Opportunity is what people want.
Post by: trophyhunt on March 20, 2018, 08:57:07 AM
BOOM! Exactly!It really blows my mind the number of people on here who want everything to go to permit only. Don't worry eventually it will. But until then feel free to go go hunt elk in AZ, CA, or UT once every decade.. :yeah:
There shouldn't be this issue with anterless hunting, but due to lack of predator management we are in this situation.
So permit hunts only guys... You want to displace 5k hunters in these 8 gmu's for 170 permits... Where do you think those other 4800 archers will go? Crowd other units and cause resource issues? Not buy and go to another state? Be careful what you wish for. You'll be fixing other seasons for years to counteract this change with the problems it creates. The cows taken in a general archery season is a rather predictable small number but it gives huge opportunity for 5k people. Opportunity is what people want.
Post by: dreamingbig on March 20, 2018, 10:54:51 PM
Yep. Well said Shawn.It really blows my mind the number of people on here who want everything to go to permit only. Don't worry eventually it will. But until then feel free to go go hunt elk in AZ, CA, or UT once every decade.. :yeah:
There shouldn't be this issue with anterless hunting, but due to lack of predator management we are in this situation.
So permit hunts only guys... You want to displace 5k hunters in these 8 gmu's for 170 permits... Where do you think those other 4800 archers will go? Crowd other units and cause resource issues? Not buy and go to another state? Be careful what you wish for. You'll be fixing other seasons for years to counteract this change with the problems it creates. The cows taken in a general archery season is a rather predictable small number but it gives huge opportunity for 5k people. Opportunity is what people want.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 21, 2018, 05:15:00 AM
Post by: Matth on March 21, 2018, 08:17:15 AM
I'm for eliminating antlerless elk harvest with a general archery tag. But I do think they should be allotted some antlerless permits.
This seems reasonable to me. open season general cow harvest needs to stop for all user groups.
Post by: 92xj on March 21, 2018, 08:24:37 AM
For hunting season 2017
#of cows killed and tagged by archery hunters = _________
# of cows killed and tagged by Muzzleloader hunters = ________
# of cows killed and tagged by Modern Firearm hunters = ________
# of cows killed on a depredation permit (or whatever wdfw calls it = _______
Post by: stackemup on March 21, 2018, 08:41:25 AM
Post by: baker5150 on March 21, 2018, 08:46:59 AM
For the 300 units being discussed, please in fill in the blank with accurate answers.
For hunting season 2017
#of cows killed and tagged by archery hunters = _________
# of cows killed and tagged by Muzzleloader hunters = ________
# of cows killed and tagged by Modern Firearm hunters = ________
# of cows killed on a depredation permit (or whatever wdfw calls it = _______
Even if harvest reports were out, it would be an educated guess based on averages.
In district 8, 2016, not a single branched antlered bull was killed amongst all weapon types.
Post by: Special T on March 21, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
The numbers do exist on the web page, however they do leave some info out to confuse us. ALL special tag harvest numbers are combined so as to make it more difficult to see the massive difference in harvest sucess rates between permitts.For the 300 units being discussed, please in fill in the blank with accurate answers.
For hunting season 2017
#of cows killed and tagged by archery hunters = _________
# of cows killed and tagged by Muzzleloader hunters = ________
# of cows killed and tagged by Modern Firearm hunters = ________
# of cows killed on a depredation permit (or whatever wdfw calls it = _______
Even if harvest reports were out, it would be an educated guess based on averages.
In district 8, 2016, not a single branched antlered bull was killed amongst all weapon types.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: TriggerMike on March 21, 2018, 10:53:19 AM
For the 300 units being discussed, please in fill in the blank with accurate answers.
For hunting season 2017
#of cows killed and tagged by archery hunters = _________
# of cows killed and tagged by Muzzleloader hunters = ________
# of cows killed and tagged by Modern Firearm hunters = ________
# of cows killed on a depredation permit (or whatever wdfw calls it = _______
Even if harvest reports were out, it would be an educated guess based on averages.
In district 8, 2016, not a single branched antlered bull was killed amongst all weapon types.
100% false. I'm getting the feeling that most people don't understand the harvest statistics or how to look at them.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2016/reports/elk_permits_gmu.php?District=8
Post by: baker5150 on March 21, 2018, 11:48:57 AM
For the 300 units being discussed, please in fill in the blank with accurate answers.
For hunting season 2017
#of cows killed and tagged by archery hunters = _________
# of cows killed and tagged by Muzzleloader hunters = ________
# of cows killed and tagged by Modern Firearm hunters = ________
# of cows killed on a depredation permit (or whatever wdfw calls it = _______
Even if harvest reports were out, it would be an educated guess based on averages.
In district 8, 2016, not a single branched antlered bull was killed amongst all weapon types.
100% false. I'm getting the feeling that most people don't understand the harvest statistics or how to look at them.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2016/reports/elk_permits_gmu.php?District=8
HAH, your right, I was looking at general only, my bad :bash:
Post by: baker5150 on March 21, 2018, 11:51:34 AM
Post by: Special T on March 21, 2018, 11:57:38 AM
It takes quite a bit of time to find the info digging around.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2016/elk_general.html
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: TriggerMike on March 21, 2018, 12:48:14 PM
Post by: Oh Mah on March 21, 2018, 08:38:25 PM
For the 300 units being discussed, please in fill in the blank with accurate answers.you forgot to add how many modern hunters how many muzzy hunters how many archery hunters,that way you can see the rate of harvest as was pointed out so nicely by popeshawnpaul.As far as the hunters not reporting accurately being a reason for inaccuracy well i guess that's on us not them don't you agree?
For hunting season 2017
#of cows killed and tagged by archery hunters = _________
# of cows killed and tagged by Muzzleloader hunters = ________
# of cows killed and tagged by Modern Firearm hunters = ________
# of cows killed on a depredation permit (or whatever wdfw calls it = _______
Post by: Special T on March 22, 2018, 10:04:35 AM
If you use the link I provided it breaks many of those things down for you. 2cFor the 300 units being discussed, please in fill in the blank with accurate answers.you forgot to add how many modern hunters how many muzzy hunters how many archery hunters,that way you can see the rate of harvest as was pointed out so nicely by popeshawnpaul.As far as the hunters not reporting accurately being a reason for inaccuracy well i guess that's on us not them don't you agree?
For hunting season 2017
#of cows killed and tagged by archery hunters = _________
# of cows killed and tagged by Muzzleloader hunters = ________
# of cows killed and tagged by Modern Firearm hunters = ________
# of cows killed on a depredation permit (or whatever wdfw calls it = _______
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: Special T on March 22, 2018, 10:08:21 AM
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: jstone on March 22, 2018, 11:47:15 AM
Post by: Special T on March 22, 2018, 11:53:56 AM
What about the muzzy and modern cow permits? That’s not all the cows they shotUse the link I provided this is all district 8.
They don't break down harvest for weapons however with special permitt.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Post by: popeshawnpaul on March 24, 2018, 12:26:09 PM
HARVEST GMU: 328 329 334 336 340 352 356 364 Totals
Antlerless Archery 177 36 2 16 9 46 39 34 359
District 8 harvest by weapon and resource allocation:
method district species Harvest (3 year avg) % Harvest/user group #Hunters % Hunters/user group Disparity
ARCHERY 8 ELK 620 24.93% 5757 26.69% -1.76%
MODERN 8 ELK 1,573 62.77% 13,432 62.32% 0.45%
MUZZLE 8 ELK 306 12.30% 2364 10.99% 1.31%
The numbers above are for the last 3 years average. We calculate the % of hunters overall per user group. Then look to see how many animals they harvest, and see what percentage of the overall harvest that is. Archery is the lowest on resource allocation for this unit. The other user groups harvest more bulls, but have special permits for antlerless. Archers have antlerless in their general season. Before you criticize the antlerless harvest in 328/329, WDFW says the population is at or above objective in that unit, allowing that harvest. With more animals, there is more conflict in those units. The other 6 Yakima GMU's in the district account for very little antlerless harvest. However, the other user groups have cow permits in these units and there was no proposal to cut their special permits. I don't want to make this a fight between user groups. There should be no fight, it's just simple numbers and statistics. We try and get the disparity relatively equal among the user groups.
Can you imagine the disparity if you removed 300+ elk from the archery total of about 600? The district would be way out of whack. Also, remember, muzzy is 2% high in allocation overall in the state.
Post by: mfswallace on March 25, 2018, 09:07:09 PM
Archery antlerless harvest per GMU:
HARVEST GMU: 328 329 334 336 340 352 356 364 Totals
Antlerless Archery 177 36 2 16 9 46 39 34 359
District 8 harvest by weapon and resource allocation:
method district species Harvest (3 year avg) % Harvest/user group #Hunters % Hunters/user group Disparity
ARCHERY 8 ELK 620 24.93% 5757 26.69% -1.76%
MODERN 8 ELK 1,573 62.77% 13,432 62.32% 0.45%
MUZZLE 8 ELK 306 12.30% 2364 10.99% 1.31%
The numbers above are for the last 3 years average. We calculate the % of hunters overall per user group. Then look to see how many animals they harvest, and see what percentage of the overall harvest that is. Archery is the lowest on resource allocation for this unit. The other user groups harvest more bulls, but have special permits for antlerless. Archers have antlerless in their general season. Before you criticize the antlerless harvest in 328/329, WDFW says the population is at or above objective in that unit, allowing that harvest. With more animals, there is more conflict in those units. The other 6 Yakima GMU's in the district account for very little antlerless harvest. However, the other user groups have cow permits in these units and there was no proposal to cut their special permits. I don't want to make this a fight between user groups. There should be no fight, it's just simple numbers and statistics. We try and get the disparity relatively equal among the user groups.
Can you imagine the disparity if you removed 300+ elk from the archery total of about 600? The district would be way out of whack. Also, remember, muzzy is 2% high in allocation overall in the state.
Therein Lies the problem.... even if you don't take the word of the" old timer" this states ungulates have been drastically decimated by a liberal invasion of politics that favor predators over any real science and it is only going to further reduce man's natural ability to be part of the ecosystem balance :twocents:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on March 26, 2018, 05:05:20 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2018, 12:48:18 PM
Reducing the time bowhunters can hunt for antlerless elk in the Yakima and Colockum elk herds during the 2018 early general season to six days from 13. This change, as with previous reductions in permits for hunts with modern firearms and muzzleloaders, is designed to meet and sustain population objectives for those herds. The season for bull elk would not be affected by this change.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2018, 01:08:05 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: goldenhtr on April 05, 2018, 03:09:23 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2018, 09:27:28 PM
Wondering if this applies to unit 175 as well?175 is still proposed as spike bull only
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: dreamingbig on April 05, 2018, 09:28:00 PM
Wondering if this applies to unit 175 as well?175 is still proposed as spike bull only
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk