Post by: bigtex on April 10, 2018, 09:24:07 AM
By Becky Kramer
The Spokesman-Review
In a visit to the Spokane Indian Reservation, Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke pledged to support compensation for Grand Coulee Dam’s impact on the tribe’s lands and traditional livelihood.
The massive dam was built without fish ladders more than 75 years ago, cutting off critical salmon runs to the Spokane and upper Columbia rivers. Tribal lands were flooded, forcing families to leave homes and farms.
“I like the challenge of some of these older wrongs that need to be righted,” Zinke said at a news conference Thursday following a 90-minute meeting with the Spokane Tribe’s council.
“Clearly, in my opinion, the tribe was wronged,” said Zinke, who oversees relationships between the federal government and Native American tribes. “I support getting to a conclusion on this.”
The former Montana congressman met with tribal leaders during a 24-hour road trip across Washington that also proved significant for Zinke’s show of support — on Friday in Skagit County — for grizzly-bear recovery in the North Cascades.
Zinke, an adopted member of the Assiniboine Sioux Tribe, said the meetings with tribes were a chance “to put a face with the nation.”
Carol Evans, chairwoman of the Spokane Tribe, presented Zinke with “gifts from the heart” and thanked him for the visit. He accepted moose and elk jerky, huckleberry jam and a string tie beaded with the image of a war bonnet.
Zinke also used meetings with tribes in Washington to talk about the effect of the opioid epidemic in Indian Country. The Department of Interior can help tribes combat drug dealing through cooperative law-enforcement actions, said Zinke, who also met this week with tribes in Arizona and Wisconsin on the opioid issue.
Community-based treatment for addicts is critical, he added.
“It has to be culturally relevant, and it has to be targeted to the kids, the moms and the grandmas,” Zinke said. (Many tribes are matriarchal.) “When the population of moms and grandmas are addicted … the fabric of the tribe begins to fall apart.”
Glenn Ford, a member of the Spokane Tribe’s council, said he came away from the meeting impressed with Zinke’s knowledge of issues important to tribes.
Zinke’s support for a Grand Coulee Dam settlement also pleased council members.
In 1994, with the help of then-House Speaker Tom Foley, the Colville Tribe received a $53 million settlement, plus annual payments based on power production and prices. In contrast, the Spokane Tribe received an initial payment of $4,700 for damage caused by the dam, but has not been able to renegotiate the settlement.
The Spokane Tribe would receive a $53 million settlement under federal legislation sponsored last year by U.S. Sens. Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray. The money would compensate the tribe for the use of its lands for decades of hydropower production. Similar legislation has been introduced every year since 2000, but has never passed in both the Senate and the House.
Scott Wheat, an attorney for the Spokane Tribe, said older relatives from his wife’s family often talked about how Grand Coulee Dam changed the river.
Fred Samuels, one of the elders, had a picture of himself with a huge chinook salmon strapped on his horse. He caught the salmon in the lower Spokane River before Grand Coulee’s construction blocked the runs.
“They may not have had a lot of economic opportunity off of the reservation,” Wheat said, “but they had an abundance of resources to provide for themselves.”
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/interior-secretary-zinke-wants-spokane-tribe-compensated-for-loss-of-land-and-lifestyle-to-grand-coulee-dam/
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 10, 2018, 09:44:55 AM
Post by: duckmen1 on April 10, 2018, 10:25:46 AM
This isn't meant to be a tribal bash but meant to share some possible thought that yeah there are differences on a lot of topics that go beond hunting and fishing rights. And yes there are a lot of differences in all lifestyles of people from todays world vs. the past. The way I see it is this is getting more and more out of hand. And our government needs to figure out a way to do things without caving into huge lawsuit payouts and such on these topics.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2018, 10:49:09 AM
Hmmm......
Post by: duckmen1 on April 10, 2018, 10:55:19 AM
Post by: huntnfmly on April 10, 2018, 11:25:49 AM
I see nothing wrong with them being compisated fairly
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 10, 2018, 11:27:00 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2018, 12:34:40 PM
I just thought that was a funny example of a group I saw showing how modern days show modern changes in lifestyle. As far as teaching about ones past culture I do think that native americans as a whole are one of the best at teaching and attempting to keep a culture alive. Many other cultures have blended as a whole and lost there roots of past ancestrial ways.
There's a generational gap that's affecting many Tribes. There's adults now that did not learn or want to learn from their parents and they're suffering from an identity crisis now.
Now that they've decided to settle down and are being looked upon as elders and teachers they don't know what to do.
A common mistake is not learning from one generation and passing along the same mistakes that generation has made. My parents made mistakes and did not learn some cultural/traditional skills that they should've as youth that they should've passed along to I and my siblings but they didn't.
It had to come from grandparents. The generation I'm in has to deal with learning from grandparents and in some cases great grandparents.
The affects are being felt now with our current youth and young adults. They believe because it's a Right we should and can exploit the Right to the verge of abuse and neglect.
That's not how our ancestors thought and that's not how we are supposed to be taught but because some have chosen to forego teachings and not take the time to learn from our elders that are passing at a rapid rate there's knowledge that isn't being passed down, oral history that isn't being taught and you've witnessed it with the adults attempting to teach the fundamentals of building a teepee.
I could go on at the disparity but I'll cut it short for now.
Post by: bearpaw on April 10, 2018, 01:14:41 PM
Colville tribe received 53 million and future payments and Spokane tribe only received $4700 doesn't take a masters in math to see thats lopsided.
I see nothing wrong with them being compisated fairly
My families ranch overlooked the Columbia, my grandpa used to spear burbot using a lantern in the bow of a boat before the dam went in. My dad remembers the salmon runs at Kettle Falls, he and my grandfather used to stop and trade with the Indians for salmon. My dad sat on the hill and watched crews cut the timber below the family ranch when they were putting in the dam.
Yes, that certainly seems like a lopsided deal! As a third generation resident and with my kids and grandkids living in NE WA, my family has a five generation history here. I'm wondering when our 53 Million payout will come? We have not even received the first $4700! :dunno:
Post by: duckmen1 on April 10, 2018, 01:29:14 PM
I just thought that was a funny example of a group I saw showing how modern days show modern changes in lifestyle. As far as teaching about ones past culture I do think that native americans as a whole are one of the best at teaching and attempting to keep a culture alive. Many other cultures have blended as a whole and lost there roots of past ancestrial ways.
There's a generational gap that's affecting many Tribes. There's adults now that did not learn or want to learn from their parents and they're suffering from an identity crisis now.
Now that they've decided to settle down and are being looked upon as elders and teachers they don't know what to do.
A common mistake is not learning from one generation and passing along the same mistakes that generation has made. My parents made mistakes and did not learn some cultural/traditional skills that they should've as youth that they should've passed along to I and my siblings but they didn't.
It had to come from grandparents. The generation I'm in has to deal with learning from grandparents and in some cases great grandparents.
The affects are being felt now with our current youth and young adults. They believe because it's a Right we should and can exploit the Right to the verge of abuse and neglect.
That's not how our ancestors thought and that's not how we are supposed to be taught but because some have chosen to forego teachings and not take the time to learn from our elders that are passing at a rapid rate there's knowledge that isn't being passed down, oral history that isn't being taught and you've witnessed it with the adults attempting to teach the fundamentals of building a teepee.
I could go on at the disparity but I'll cut it short for now.
Very well written and I can agree with everything said in this post. I do have a lot of respect for the elders in the culture and the individuals that try to keep the culture alive. I don't agree with select individuals that give the culture a bad rep which I think we can all agree on. But that's the same with my culture and others as well. As far as the original post goes without taking it as far as I did I could say it in the terms of if one or a group of people utilize power and such from such a thing as a dam that has been in place as long as it has and made life easier on a person using electricity for lights, cooking, freezers, TV, Internet,etc like we all do as well as state supplemental distribution of salmon around the dams, as too why one would sue and be given settlements for such a thing that I see has made life better off as it is today. This country has so much to offer and many people try to sue and take rights away for reasons I don't see.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on April 10, 2018, 02:08:04 PM
Post by: idahohuntr on April 10, 2018, 02:17:14 PM
Your 5 generation family and federally recognized tribes are apples and oranges...from a legal, ethical, and common sense view.Colville tribe received 53 million and future payments and Spokane tribe only received $4700 doesn't take a masters in math to see thats lopsided.
I see nothing wrong with them being compisated fairly
My families ranch overlooked the Columbia, my grandpa used to spear burbot using a lantern in the bow of a boat before the dam went in. My dad remembers the salmon runs at Kettle Falls, he and my grandfather used to stop and trade with the Indians for salmon. My dad sat on the hill and watched crews cut the timber below the family ranch when they were putting in the dam.
Yes, that certainly seems like a lopsided deal! As a third generation resident and with my kids and grandkids living in NE WA, my family has a five generation history here. I'm wondering when our 53 Million payout will come? We have not even received the first $4700! :dunno:
Post by: KFhunter on April 10, 2018, 02:41:48 PM
Your 5 generation family and federally recognized tribes are apples and oranges...from a legal,Colville tribe received 53 million and future payments and Spokane tribe only received $4700 doesn't take a masters in math to see thats lopsided.
I see nothing wrong with them being compisated fairly
My families ranch overlooked the Columbia, my grandpa used to spear burbot using a lantern in the bow of a boat before the dam went in. My dad remembers the salmon runs at Kettle Falls, he and my grandfather used to stop and trade with the Indians for salmon. My dad sat on the hill and watched crews cut the timber below the family ranch when they were putting in the dam.
Yes, that certainly seems like a lopsided deal! As a third generation resident and with my kids and grandkids living in NE WA, my family has a five generation history here. I'm wondering when our 53 Million payout will come? We have not even received the first $4700! :dunno:ethical, and common senseview.
I'll agree with legal, as there's none. Whole towns and communities were uprooted, saw mills, rail roads and highway systems all went under the water.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 02:50:17 PM
Post by: beardown on April 10, 2018, 03:09:09 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2018, 03:47:40 PM
So I should accept assimilation because you don't like it? No thanks. I'm proud of my service to this country, I'm proud of my service to my community and I'm proud of who I am, but if the line in the sand is drawn at being who I am and yet again having my peoples identity stripped away again and being forced to be "American" then I'm going to do what I do and defend my people, my family and be who I am and not who you want me to be.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 10, 2018, 04:05:01 PM
If you're saying we're all equal and should be to be considered "American" then you can keep it. My ancestors were all separate bands/tribes prior to being "Confederated" and we were still who we are prior to being considered "Americans" by the American Govt.Great post.
So I should accept assimilation because you don't like it? No thanks. I'm proud of my service to this country, I'm proud of my service to my community and I'm proud of who I am, but if the line in the sand is drawn at being who I am and yet again having my peoples identity stripped away again and being forced to be "American" then I'm going to do what I do and defend my people, my family and be who I am and not who you want me to be.
I support a sizeable settlement and hope they make the Feds construct fish passage facilities at Chief Joseph and Grand Coulee dams (then at the smaller dams further up)
Post by: KFhunter on April 10, 2018, 04:32:20 PM
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
We all know treaties hold the weight of the constitution and are the law of the land, so our rights are equal, as the constitution is also the law of the land.
All NA's should be thankful that we won and not the British, France or Russia. No country to my knowledge allows as much rights to a conquered indigenous people as America does. Not even Canada. Ask the Inca's, the Mayan's, heck even ask the Aboriginals in Australia how they had it under colonial rule.
Ask the Siberians and Inuits how it was under Russian rule, then go ask them on our side only a few miles away if they're glad to be American instead of Russian.
So ya, count me as sick of it all. I didn't kill anyone, none of my ancestors owned slaves or killed Indians that I could find.
If we do hold a new constitutional convention some of these old treaties may be null and void.
Post by: White Pass Outfitters on April 10, 2018, 04:43:49 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 04:46:21 PM
I don't support a settlement or reparations of any kind. I do support a fish ladder or some way (other than dam removal) to get fish past the dam.agreed, and to add to this, how would have non natives been treated if we lost? I’m pretty sure the atrocities would have gone both ways, and what happened to those people that lost land to the tribes when they took land? I completely understand plats beliefs and wish nothing but good things for him but damn it would be nice to all be on the same playing field.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
All NA's should be thankful that we won and not the British, France or Russia. No country to my knowledge allows as much rights to a conquered indigenous people as America does. Not even Canada.
Post by: KFhunter on April 10, 2018, 04:48:49 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 10, 2018, 04:53:32 PM
Post by: Stein on April 10, 2018, 04:58:52 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 05:00:05 PM
There seems to be a tribal movement, I've had friends for years and years who are NA...and in the last handful of years they've gone full tribal pride posting meme's galore on FB until I had to unfollow them. They post this white hate crap on FB, but then when I see them they're all nice and friendly like normal but in my mind I just see all those meme's they just posted :dunno:its never racism if the hate is against white people, how about the meme “ my hero’s used to kill white people”. Reverse that meme and see how it goes!!
Post by: KFhunter on April 10, 2018, 05:02:45 PM
Nobody alive today had any hand in what happened,but as a country we can decide to let it go or try to make it right at some level. We took something that didn't belong to us, built a dam and profited for several generations on the use of the river and land. The proposal amounts to a cost of about 7 cents per US citizen (23/330). I'm fine with that.
exactly, but say we do pay the NA's
how long before the blacks get paid?
mexicans?
chinese?
japanese?
Many Chinese were killed building our RR and Dams and they worked as slaves
We interred Japanese during WWII
We took land from the mexicans
The list of grievances against the US is loooooong.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 05:03:32 PM
Nobody alive today had any hand in what happened, but as a country we can decide to let it go or try to make it right at some level. We took something that didn't belong to us, built a dam and profited for several generations on the use of the river and land. The proposal amounts to a cost of about 7 cents per US citizen (23/330). I'm fine with that.Oh my God, should we have turned around and went back to Europe ? I’ll keep my .07 cents thank you.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 05:06:33 PM
Nobody alive today had any hand in what happened, but as a country we can decide to let it go or try to make it right at some level. We took something that didn't belong to us, built a dam and profited for several generations on the use of the river and land. The proposal amounts to a cost of about 7 cents per US citizen (23/330). I'm fine with that.What about Mexico ??? We took land from them too, should we pay them as well??
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2018, 05:08:00 PM
America and the way some of you think and believe would've been better off exterminating us as a people and they wouldn't have had to deal with us.
The separation of groups wasn't started by us. We are who we are and have been since before the current civilization took over. Unlike other ethnic groups who wave a flag of their homeland and proclaim their pride for immigrating here, we don't have that issue.
I have a lot of the same concerns and frustrations as many as some of you do, but the division always lands at the "Special Rights" that my ancestors fought and died for.
Post by: huntnfmly on April 10, 2018, 05:12:33 PM
Nobody alive today had any hand in what happened, but as a country we can decide to let it go or try to make it right at some level. We took something that didn't belong to us, built a dam and profited for several generations on the use of the river and land. The proposal amounts to a cost of about 7 cents per US citizen (23/330). I'm fine with that.Well said Stein
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2018, 05:16:34 PM
There seems to be a tribal movement, I've had friends for years and years who are NA...and in the last handful of years they've gone full tribal pride posting meme's galore on FB until I had to unfollow them. They post this white hate crap on FB, but then when I see them they're all nice and friendly like normal but in my mind I just see all those meme's they just posted :dunno:
I can say the same. I've had some spew hate and dislike on here, but when I've met or spoke to them outside of the general forum they're completely different.
Same goes for the real world. I've had some that I called friend and yet talk sh.. and hate the fact that I have certain rights and liberties that they do not. They always follow up with the same statement, "I mean no disrespect...". Oh you don't? But you just did do exactly what you said you didn't do.
My patriotism is probably the same as most here and there's beliefs we probably share but when the issue is assimilate and forget my history then sorry, it isn't happening.
Post by: Cougartail on April 10, 2018, 05:23:19 PM
She told of a old Indian Chief and an old trapper who met down at the river and shared a fire. They were reminiscing about the "old days" and the trapper began to think about what "white man" had done to Alaska and its people over the years. He stated "It must have been much different before we showed up." The Indian Chief replied "Sure was... We use to starve to death every winter before you came."
She understood how bad things were and how they could of tuned out worse. The young man has a very pragmatic view of things and works it to his benifit. American at times and Indian at times but no hate.
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2018, 05:35:57 PM
A young man in Alask
American at times and Indian at times but no hate.
That right there.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 05:56:06 PM
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on April 10, 2018, 06:02:38 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 10, 2018, 06:16:56 PM
I've lost a lot of respect for some on here because they put on a face and acted like others wanted them to. When the reality was they didn't like me or what I stood for or represent.
There's no skin off my d... if people don't like or care for what I've got to say. There's no sleep lost here. I am who I am and nobody can take that away. I'll always be who I am and unlike the left liberal tree hugging bunny lovers I'm not going to parade it around and rub it in faces or March downtown for attention. That's not me.
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 06:26:49 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 10, 2018, 06:30:21 PM
Post by: bigtex on April 10, 2018, 07:59:03 PM
Reagan signed a bill which paid those Japanese interned during WWII about $60,000 each.Nobody alive today had any hand in what happened,but as a country we can decide to let it go or try to make it right at some level. We took something that didn't belong to us, built a dam and profited for several generations on the use of the river and land. The proposal amounts to a cost of about 7 cents per US citizen (23/330). I'm fine with that.
exactly, but say we do pay the NA's
how long before the blacks get paid?
mexicans?
chinese?
japanese?
Many Chinese were killed building our RR and Dams and they worked as slaves
We interred Japanese during WWII
We took land from the mexicans
The list of grievances against the US is loooooong.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on April 11, 2018, 11:54:32 AM
Under the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, the US paid Mexico $15 million for 529,000 square miles of lands taken from Mexico in California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming and Texas (the Mexican Cession). In addition, they assumed $3+ million of debts owed by Mexico to US citizens. The US paid Mexico $10 million under the 1854 Gadsen purchase for another 30,000 square miles added in southern New Mexico and Arizona.Nobody alive today had any hand in what happened, but as a country we can decide to let it go or try to make it right at some level. We took something that didn't belong to us, built a dam and profited for several generations on the use of the river and land. The proposal amounts to a cost of about 7 cents per US citizen (23/330). I'm fine with that.What about Mexico ??? We took land from them too, should we pay them as well??
In addition, the US used the purchase to bolster its claim to the southern portion of the undefined disputed boundary between Oregon Territory previously claimed by Mexico and Columbia Territory claimed by the British, resulting in a negotiated cession of claims by England to lands west of the Continental Divide between the 42nd and 49th parallels, and cession of claims by the US to lands west of the Continental Divide north of the 49th parallel.
Some people claim Mexico was unfairly compensated, but that claim doesn't stand up to the history of willing seller purchases of other North American territories by the US: the 1803 $15 Million Louisiana Purchase (combined cash and debt forgiveness) of the Mississippi River drainage from France; the $5 Million purchase of Florida Territory in 1819 (plus assumption of debts owed by Spain to Florida residents); and the 1867 purchase of the Alaska Territory from the Russian Empire for $7.2 Million.
Post by: Special T on April 11, 2018, 12:17:23 PM
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Post by: Odell on April 11, 2018, 12:21:00 PM
Trophy, I don't doubt there's a few that do but for the most part those that I consider friends don't. If someone cant accept me for who I am then they should just keep it real and be honest with themselves. Don't put on a face and try to be friends just say it and be real. I respect those that do just that.
I've lost a lot of respect for some on here because they put on a face and acted like others wanted them to. When the reality was they didn't like me or what I stood for or represent.
There's no skin off my d... if people don't like or care for what I've got to say. There's no sleep lost here. I am who I am and nobody can take that away. I'll always be who I am and unlike the left liberal tree hugging bunny lovers I'm not going to parade it around and rub it in faces or March downtown for attention. That's not me.
Right, but can't it go both ways? Can't people hate the reality of tribal hunting and fishing and you might accept them as they are?
Post by: Odell on April 11, 2018, 12:22:59 PM
I've got no problem with that
Post by: PlateauNDN on April 11, 2018, 12:37:39 PM
Trophy, I don't doubt there's a few that do but for the most part those that I consider friends don't. If someone cant accept me for who I am then they should just keep it real and be honest with themselves. Don't put on a face and try to be friends just say it and be real. I respect those that do just that.
I've lost a lot of respect for some on here because they put on a face and acted like others wanted them to. When the reality was they didn't like me or what I stood for or represent.
There's no skin off my d... if people don't like or care for what I've got to say. There's no sleep lost here. I am who I am and nobody can take that away. I'll always be who I am and unlike the left liberal tree hugging bunny lovers I'm not going to parade it around and rub it in faces or March downtown for attention. That's not me.
Right, but can't it go both ways? Can't people hate the reality of tribal hunting and fishing and you might accept them as they are?
I do? Where have I ever said otherwise? Where have I ever singled out anyone or attacked them verbally? It's the other way around when it comes to that type of actions.
I'll give respect if its given. Such as yourself Odell. You've spoken your peace on more than one occasion and made it clear where you stand. You didn't sugar coat it or attempt to appease anyone with your beliefs and views.
I can respect that. I don't have to like it but I'll respect it. All I've ever asked is that when dealing with tribal issues focus on the individuals if it involves individuals.
We all have our own beliefs, views, opinions, ethics, morals that we stand for and if we look at each other in that fashion how can you not respect that?
:tup:
Post by: Odell on April 11, 2018, 12:53:10 PM
Trophy, I don't doubt there's a few that do but for the most part those that I consider friends don't. If someone cant accept me for who I am then they should just keep it real and be honest with themselves. Don't put on a face and try to be friends just say it and be real. I respect those that do just that.
I've lost a lot of respect for some on here because they put on a face and acted like others wanted them to. When the reality was they didn't like me or what I stood for or represent.
There's no skin off my d... if people don't like or care for what I've got to say. There's no sleep lost here. I am who I am and nobody can take that away. I'll always be who I am and unlike the left liberal tree hugging bunny lovers I'm not going to parade it around and rub it in faces or March downtown for attention. That's not me.
Right, but can't it go both ways? Can't people hate the reality of tribal hunting and fishing and you might accept them as they are?
I do? Where have I ever said otherwise? Where have I ever singled out anyone or attacked them verbally? It's the other way around when it comes to that type of actions.
I'll give respect if its given. Such as yourself Odell. You've spoken your peace on more than one occasion and made it clear where you stand. You didn't sugar coat it or attempt to appease anyone with your beliefs and views.
I can respect that. I don't have to like it but I'll respect it. All I've ever asked is that when dealing with tribal issues focus on the individuals if it involves individuals.
We all have our own beliefs, views, opinions, ethics, morals that we stand for and if we look at each other in that fashion how can you not respect that?
:tup:
I may have misunderstood a previous post then so my apologies. When you said "Same goes for the real world. I've had some that I called friend and yet talk sh.. and hate the fact that I have certain rights and liberties that they do not. They always follow up with the same statement, "I mean no disrespect...". Oh you don't? But you just did do exactly what you said you didn't do."
I read it like if someone hates the system and speaks out against it, that they are disrespecting you as a person.
I think the system sucks and many people are abusing it. I personally think that any tribal member hunting on state land should follow the same rules as everyone else. I also hear crickets from tribal members about the serious problem of abuse.
But tribes should be able to do anything they want on their nation lands.
But I also don't want to make anyone feel disrespected as a person.