Post by: WA1232 on April 27, 2018, 10:39:05 AM
Post by: X-Force on April 27, 2018, 10:42:10 AM
Post by: treefarmer on April 27, 2018, 10:50:55 AM
Post by: Curly on April 27, 2018, 11:02:56 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 27, 2018, 11:16:16 AM
Post by: SkookumHntr on April 27, 2018, 12:11:42 PM
Post by: knighttime25 on April 27, 2018, 12:13:33 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on April 27, 2018, 12:30:47 PM
You should still be able to buy your kids the points option though correct? It would make sense that they wouldn't want kids applying for a special permit unless they had their hunters safety complete. Unless I'm missing something?? :dunno:Can’t buy any apps without hunters safety now.
Post by: Rainier10 on April 27, 2018, 12:31:35 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 27, 2018, 12:42:37 PM
I didn't even know you could buy kids points before they passed hunters ed, my daughter is starting with one point this year! Nice that its only 3$ for them to apply for hunts tho! Hoping for the any deer 667 hunt
I think thats why they changed - Parents "in the know" started applying as soon as lil johnny was born and then come license time he had 10 youth points built up and had a lock on permits, while most parents just started applying when lil johnny passed hunters ed. Kind of nice to getem started as early as possible IMO.
Post by: GurrCentral on April 27, 2018, 12:48:58 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on April 27, 2018, 12:56:45 PM
How bout the kids that have points already? Will they keep their points until they pass hunter ed and actually can apply for hunts?Yes they will. I still have 6 youth points and 6 senior points from when they divided up all the categories a few years back. I am 46.
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 27, 2018, 01:17:07 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 27, 2018, 01:41:22 PM
Post by: jackelope on April 27, 2018, 01:42:39 PM
I support the change. I don't think it's fair for some kids to get extra points before they're even eligible to hunt, while other kids don't. This only affects moose, bighorn sheep, and mountain goat anyway, as others have already said. You never could build up points for deer or elk without having passed hunter education, since in order to buy an application you have to first buy a hunting license. I don't believe the state ever intended for people to have the ability to buy moose, sheep, and goat points for their kids. It's just a loophole that some people figured out how to exploit. Most people never knew it was possible.
Looking at it from a what's the most fair to all standpoint, I'm with Bobcat on this one.
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 27, 2018, 02:31:20 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 27, 2018, 02:44:56 PM
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
Post by: jackelope on April 27, 2018, 02:51:27 PM
The ability was open to everyone just like an access road that most people don’t know about that leads to a good hunting spot. The ability for the kids to start building points early in life is just a way for them to compete against hunters who have been applying for a long time. How are you supposed to get kids interested in hunting by telling them they have to apply for another 40 years to get a moose tag. It’s a little easier to swallow if you tell them they already have 10 points so they are 25% of the way there.
If it was something that was published or otherwise publicized as something that could be done, I might feel differently. I'm 99.9% positive that there's nothing published anywhere from WDFW saying it's an actual thing and some discovered a loophole at some point. One guy told his buddy who told his buddy who told his buddy and now all of a sudden a bunch of people are doing it. Like I said, I agree with the change.
Post by: emac on April 27, 2018, 02:53:32 PM
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Post by: X-Force on April 27, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
I support the change. I don't think it's fair for some kids to get extra points before they're even eligible to hunt, while other kids don't. This only affects moose, bighorn sheep, and mountain goat anyway, as others have already said. You never could build up points for deer or elk without having passed hunter education, since in order to buy an application you have to first buy a hunting license. I don't believe the state ever intended for people to have the ability to buy moose, sheep, and goat points for their kids. It's just a loophole that some people figured out how to exploit. Most people never knew it was possible.
Looking at it from a what's the most fair to all standpoint, I'm with Bobcat on this one.
It was fare because everyone had the same opportunity. Because some people didn't take advantage of that opportunity it wasn't fair?
This same loop hole is how people out of state can apply for Oil permits without buying a hunting license... is that fair.
It is a shame that this was lost because; 1) kids had the opportunity to acquire points so that when they became old enough to pass hunter ed they could have 8-14 points in the game. 2) These points were relatively cheap so that someone getting of age to buy there own points would be vested in the system and still want to continue to buy points. As it is being 18 or 20 and looking at the odds of drawing and how long it takes to get into the average draw point area (13-16), those people will just sit on there money, not invest in conservation and not pursue hunting... Look at the decrease in hunter participation.... Keep raising the entry bar and we will keep loosing people to the sport. 3) We allow people to apply for 5 species and 22 categories with the dilution of points across the board the odds are so bad why keep everyone; hunters ed or not still in the game?
Post by: X-Force on April 27, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about it either way, but permits are a zero sum game: when one person gets a permit, it's one less for others to get.
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
screw the future of hunting for the opportunity of the entitled.
Post by: X-Force on April 27, 2018, 03:01:07 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about it either way, but permits are a zero sum game: when one person gets a permit, it's one less for others to get.
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
screw the future of hunting for the opportunity of the entitled.
And for the record that is why I hate point systems.
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 27, 2018, 03:05:12 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about it either way, but permits are a zero sum game: when one person gets a permit, it's one less for others to get.
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
screw the future of hunting for the opportunity of the entitled.
The entitled ones are the ones who go to the auctions and pay 10’s of thousands on raffle tags not the kids who’s parents pay $3 to get them an early start.
Post by: jackelope on April 27, 2018, 03:17:44 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about it either way, but permits are a zero sum game: when one person gets a permit, it's one less for others to get.
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
screw the future of hunting for the opportunity of the entitled.
The entitled ones are the ones who go to the auctions and pay 10’s of thousands on raffle tags not the kids who’s parents pay $3 to get them an early start.
You mean the ones who worked their butts off to make the money to buy those auction tags? Not sure how that's "entitled".
Post by: X-Force on April 27, 2018, 03:24:13 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about it either way, but permits are a zero sum game: when one person gets a permit, it's one less for others to get.
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
screw the future of hunting for the opportunity of the entitled.
The entitled ones are the ones who go to the auctions and pay 10’s of thousands on raffle tags not the kids who’s parents pay $3 to get them an early start.
You mean the ones who worked their butts off to make the money to buy those auction tags? Not sure how that's "entitled".
Im all for people working their butts off and buying an auction tag.
I am all for people winning raffle tags.
I am not for people assuming because they have put in more years that they are entitled to a very limited amount of permits over everyone else.
Post by: treefarmer on April 27, 2018, 03:48:00 PM
Out after a few years. Also didn’t think it was some secret loophole as most everyone I know knew about it
Put down your phone and go outside
Post by: bobcat on April 27, 2018, 04:14:07 PM
Post by: dscubame on April 27, 2018, 04:21:14 PM
You know what's going to affect young hunters much more than not buying points before passing hunter education? The change of youth moose tags from 18 to only 1 this year. I've been buying points for my daughters, who are now 10 and 12 years old. They each have 8 points. Now, not that it wasn't a difficult draw before, but with only 1 tag available, the 8 points I bought for them I feel was a total waste of money.
One moose tag available? Holy smokes.
Post by: jackelope on April 27, 2018, 04:31:57 PM
You know what's going to affect young hunters much more than not buying points before passing hunter education? The change of youth moose tags from 18 to only 1 this year. I've been buying points for my daughters, who are now 10 and 12 years old. They each have 8 points. Now, not that it wasn't a difficult draw before, but with only 1 tag available, the 8 points I bought for them I feel was a total waste of money.
I completely understand the frustration there, but with all that is going on with the moose populations in the northeast, they had to do something. 18 to 1 seems a little excessive though...not gonna deny that.
Post by: jackelope on April 27, 2018, 04:45:31 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about it either way, but permits are a zero sum game: when one person gets a permit, it's one less for others to get.
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
screw the future of hunting for the opportunity of the entitled.
The entitled ones are the ones who go to the auctions and pay 10’s of thousands on raffle tags not the kids who’s parents pay $3 to get them an early start.
You mean the ones who worked their butts off to make the money to buy those auction tags? Not sure how that's "entitled".
Im all for people working their butts off and buying an auction tag.
I am all for people winning raffle tags.
I am not for people assuming because they have put in more years that they are entitled to a very limited amount of permits over everyone else.
This may or may not sound greedy(I will preface this by saying this is the first year I have ever had double digit points in anything) but I do think people who have been applying longer should have the ability to more consistently draw these permits than others with less years of trying.
Post by: The scout on April 27, 2018, 04:52:21 PM
I support the change. I don't think it's fair for some kids to get extra points before they're even eligible to hunt, while other kids don't. This only affects moose, bighorn sheep, and mountain goat anyway, as others have already said. You never could build up points for deer or elk without having passed hunter education, since in order to buy an application you have to first buy a hunting license. I don't believe the state ever intended for people to have the ability to buy moose, sheep, and goat points for their kids. It's just a loophole that some people figured out how to exploit. Most people never knew it was possible.
So who are the kids that don’t get extra points? I guess I don’t know what the big deal is since all parents haves the opportunity to build points for there kids.
Post by: treefarmer on April 27, 2018, 05:21:33 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on April 27, 2018, 05:37:55 PM
Post by: MountainTracker on April 27, 2018, 06:35:57 PM
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Post by: teanawayslayer on April 27, 2018, 06:48:16 PM
I don't have a strong opinion about it either way, but permits are a zero sum game: when one person gets a permit, it's one less for others to get.agreed!
There are plenty of individuals who have been applying for nearly 25 years and are approaching an age where they may be able to hunt much longer. If I had a choice, I would prefer to see them have better odds to get rare permits before they can no longer hunt. :twocents:
Post by: meatwhack on April 28, 2018, 11:36:51 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on April 28, 2018, 02:07:24 PM
It is (was) simply knowledgeable dads wanting to give their kids a boost, however small. Nice, but yes, a loophole.
Post by: follow maggie on April 28, 2018, 02:16:37 PM
Post by: Pegasus on April 28, 2018, 02:32:36 PM
Post by: northwesthunter84 on April 28, 2018, 02:43:40 PM
I think personally some of life’s experiences become a little richer when we have some basis to compare them to. I know for a fact I wouldn’t have had the same feelings taking a bull elk @ 12 as I did at 28. Because I definitely experienced the difference last year whitetail hunting in Illinois with my dad. I can remember most hunts but I will never forget that one.
Post by: jackmaster on April 28, 2018, 03:04:57 PM
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 28, 2018, 08:39:39 PM
My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!
Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for? We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids? They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.
These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole :twocents:
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 28, 2018, 08:40:50 PM
I agree with the change and for those that are using the argument of recruitment for new hunters there’s plenty of otc opportunity to get kids in the field hunting without drawing a premium tag.
:yeah: but in Idaho not Washington.
Post by: Whitpirate on April 28, 2018, 08:47:30 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 28, 2018, 08:49:15 PM
And yes, I use the point option myself, and yes, I did buy points for moose for my two daughters. They are 10 and 12 and they each have 8 points in the youth category and in the bull category. I play the game by the rules that are in place but it doesn't mean I don't think there's a better way.
I'll also agree with those who say kids have plenty of hunting opportunities in this state. Way more than when I was a kid. I didn't get special seasons to hunt before everyone else could hunt, like they have now. There was no such thing as special permits for youth only. And we didn't have whitetail deer seasons that were open for antlerless animals like kids do now.
Yes Idaho has more opportunities, especially when it comes to elk. But that's understandable, there are a lot less people in the state, and a lot more public land.
Post by: jackmaster on April 28, 2018, 09:26:00 PM
not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!
Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for? We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids? They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.
These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole :twocents:
Post by: CarbonHunter on April 28, 2018, 09:54:16 PM
not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!
Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for? We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids? They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.
These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole :twocents:
You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t qualified for that they received for free.
Post by: ryanj on May 04, 2018, 08:10:00 AM
Post by: Curly on May 04, 2018, 08:14:51 AM
not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!
Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for? We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids? They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.
These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole :twocents:
You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t qualified for that they received for free.
That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn. However, I doubt that is going to happen. It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented.
At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points. :twocents: Just my opinion.......YMMV.
Post by: ryanj on May 04, 2018, 08:19:56 AM
Post by: CarbonHunter on May 06, 2018, 07:16:21 PM
not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!
Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for? We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids? They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.
These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole :twocents:
You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t qualified for that they received for free.
That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn. However, I doubt that is going to happen. It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented.
At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points. :twocents: Just my opinion.......YMMV.
It would cost the wdfw zero dollars to eliminate the points that we did not earn. It would only take a simple SQL script to search and delete the unearned points from the database.
Post by: NRA4LIFE on May 06, 2018, 07:26:04 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 06, 2018, 07:30:15 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 06, 2018, 07:38:24 PM
It's not that simple. For one, a WAC would need to be changed which requires legislative approval.not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!
Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for? We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids? They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.
These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole :twocents:
You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t qualified for that they received for free.
That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn. However, I doubt that is going to happen. It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented.
At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points. :twocents: Just my opinion.......YMMV.
It would cost the wdfw zero dollars to eliminate the points that we did not earn. It would only take a simple SQL script to search and delete the unearned points from the database.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-412-080
iii. An applicant's accumulated point totals, immediately prior to sales of the 2010 permit applications, will be replicated across all categories for that species. The point replication will only occur in 2010, during the transition from single species categories to multiple categories of the same species.
Secondly, it would create a situation of unequal treatment for those with unearned and unused points, versus those who have used them.
It shouldn't have happened but it did and it's highly unlikely to change now.
Post by: CarbonHunter on May 06, 2018, 08:01:34 PM
It's not that simple. For one, a WAC would need to be changed which requires legislative approval.not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!
Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for? We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids? They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.
These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole :twocents:
You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t qualified for that they received for free.
That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn. However, I doubt that is going to happen. It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented.
At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points. :twocents: Just my opinion.......YMMV.
It would cost the wdfw zero dollars to eliminate the points that we did not earn. It would only take a simple SQL script to search and delete the unearned points from the database.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-412-080
iii. An applicant's accumulated point totals, immediately prior to sales of the 2010 permit applications, will be replicated across all categories for that species. The point replication will only occur in 2010, during the transition from single species categories to multiple categories of the same species.
Secondly, it would create a situation of unequal treatment for those with unearned and unused points, versus those who have used them.
It shouldn't have happened but it did and it's highly unlikely to change now.
All they have to do is line out, or replace Diii in the next rule making session and replace it with “if not eligible on 3/30/2019 and the points were granted by the rule change of 2010 without purchase of special permit application, points will be removed on 4/1/2019”. It happens every year during the rule making session no different than the process we just went through.
Post by: bobcat on May 06, 2018, 08:37:37 PM
I know I'll get flamed for this but I'm all for this. I witnessed many 3 and 4 year olds in camps up near Republic many years ago with 2 does hanging and you can't tell me they were capable of shooting a high powered rifle that can kill a deer. Sorry. Dad was killing all the does.
That's just about impossible. I don't think there are any 3 and 4 year olds going through, and passing hunter education. Which they would have to do in order to purchase a hunting license and deer tags.
Post by: X-Force on May 06, 2018, 09:25:46 PM
I know I'll get flamed for this but I'm all for this. I witnessed many 3 and 4 year olds in camps up near Republic many years ago with 2 does hanging and you can't tell me they were capable of shooting a high powered rifle that can kill a deer. Sorry. Dad was killing all the does.
If this is actually the case these kids would still be able to get points because they would have theoretically passed hunters ed...
Post by: Bob33 on May 06, 2018, 09:40:51 PM
Post by: LongBomb on May 06, 2018, 10:05:18 PM
How bout the kids that have points already? Will they keep their points until they pass hunter ed and actually can apply for hunts?Yes they will. I still have 6 youth points and 6 senior points from when they divided up all the categories a few years back. I am 46.
Somehow i have 6 points in each of these elk categories, 65+,disabled,master, and youth... I'm not a youth, not even close to 65, haven't ever been disabled and never been a master hunter... not sure how i got these points? Maybe my dad back in the day applied for them trying for something else :dunno: is it possible to transfer points at all? 3 of those i may be someday but don't think i will be 16 again. Any suggestions?
Post by: Bullkllr on May 06, 2018, 10:09:10 PM
It happened when they went to the multi-category plan for each species. Whatever you had for "elk points" before- when there was only one category- were automatically transferred to all elk categories, even categories you can not apply for. It made a bad system change even worse.How bout the kids that have points already? Will they keep their points until they pass hunter ed and actually can apply for hunts?Yes they will. I still have 6 youth points and 6 senior points from when they divided up all the categories a few years back. I am 46.
Somehow i have 6 points in each of these elk categories, 65+,disabled,master, and youth... I'm not a youth, not even close to 65, haven't ever been disabled and never been a master hunter... not sure how i got these points? Maybe my dad back in the day applied for them trying for something else :dunno: is it possible to transfer points at all? 3 of those i may be someday but don't think i will be 16 again. Any suggestions?
And no, they can't be transferred.
Post by: LongBomb on May 06, 2018, 10:24:01 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on May 06, 2018, 11:26:19 PM
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
Post by: PolarBear on May 07, 2018, 03:56:50 AM
Post by: X-Force on May 07, 2018, 07:01:05 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?
Post by: Jason on May 07, 2018, 07:13:42 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.:yeah: I agree.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
Post by: bobcat on May 07, 2018, 08:45:43 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?
No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.
Post by: X-Force on May 07, 2018, 09:03:23 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?
No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.
A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 07, 2018, 09:08:21 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 07, 2018, 09:11:27 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?
No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.
A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.
Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.
Post by: X-Force on May 07, 2018, 10:54:49 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?
No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.
A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.
Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.
I am agreement with you that the system needs to be fixed but we aren't discussing fixing the system we are discussing keeping the same system and eliminating one groups ability to accumulate points.
Post by: bobcat on May 07, 2018, 11:03:56 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?
No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.
A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.
Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.
I am agreement with you that the system needs to be fixed but we aren't discussing fixing the system we are discussing keeping the same system and eliminating one groups ability to accumulate points.
Okay, but points are for those who apply for a hunt and are unsuccessful in drawing that hunt. It was never intended for children to begin accumulating points from the day they are born. That it was possible was a mistake that has now been fixed.
Post by: X-Force on May 07, 2018, 11:12:38 AM
The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth? That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits. 98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit.
I think it's a good change. If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.
It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?
No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.
A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.
Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.
I am agreement with you that the system needs to be fixed but we aren't discussing fixing the system we are discussing keeping the same system and eliminating one groups ability to accumulate points.
Okay, but points are for those who apply for a hunt and are unsuccessful in drawing that hunt. It was never intended for children to begin accumulating points from the day they are born. That it was possible was a mistske that has now been fixed.
It has been 23 years of leaving that door open, correct? now it needs changed?
People who apply for ghost points are not applying for a hunt and are still rewarded with a point.
We will have to agree to disagree.
Post by: wannabhntr on May 07, 2018, 11:33:21 AM
I know I'll get flamed for this but I'm all for this. I witnessed many 3 and 4 year olds in camps up near Republic many years ago with 2 does hanging and you can't tell me they were capable of shooting a high powered rifle that can kill a deer. Sorry. Dad was killing all the does.I may be going out on a limb here, but those 3 and 4 year olds you saw more than likely have not passed hunters ed. There for they can not have hunting licenses. There for they can not have deer tags. Ever thought that maybe the adults had second deer or doe tags. Disabled maybe?
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on May 07, 2018, 01:32:17 PM
In full disclosure I have 3 kids all have at least one point in each category. But none have even close to what they could have. I am not religious about it. I figured if and when they decide to hunt it might be a fun fact for them to know they have a point or two. That should they decide to hunt, I have daydreamed about it since they were little. I have no belief WHATSOEVER that it will aid in their decision to hunt or not hunt. Thats entirely up to them and myself ( or parents in general). In the same token I don't believe that if I was faithful to the permit process it would increase their chances enough for me to be concerned about it. So I never have been.
I am curious if any non qualified applicant has ever actually been selected? I would assume that any parent who has done the little research needed to actually commit to applying would realize that they still couldn't purchase a tag :chuckle: I have never entered anything but points option for them. Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption? In that case I am all for it. I would think even if somehow a non qualified applicant drew, that they would be ineligible for the tag purchase and it would simply go to an alternate. Same as failure to buy.
The argument that points are reserved for those who want to hunt but fail to draw is weak. Their is points options in every category. That option should go away IMO. Apply for what you want to hunt. I know of lots of guys who draw antlerless tags and dont hunt them, or build points and then water down odds for those who would hunt them. IT is the game, I dont like the rules, and am all for changing them, but I would rather see a wiping of points and reduction in categories rather than this miniscule change.
Post by: ryanj on May 07, 2018, 03:03:18 PM
Post by: Miles on May 08, 2018, 06:28:58 AM