Post by: GurrCentral on May 08, 2018, 09:27:28 PM
Link to flyer: http://washingtonwsf.org/2018_WA_Rocky_Mtn_Bighorn_Raffle_Flyer_Download.pdf
Post by: Falcon on May 15, 2018, 06:35:27 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 15, 2018, 06:43:36 PM
Post by: Falcon on May 15, 2018, 07:33:17 PM
No sense in putting in, my name is already on the winning ticket!
Cocky as usual :chuckle:
Post by: Tbar on May 15, 2018, 08:02:58 PM
Tickets are available to purchase for the 2018 Washington Rocky Mountain Bighorn Sheep raffle. As of today 2,047 tickets have been sold. This number will be updated on the Washington WSF website. Ticket orders must be received by July 7, 2018. Drawing held by July 19, 2018Gurr central, how are these sheep managed? Do both sub herds meet the threshold for harvest? How many tags are offered to through the draw system?
Link to flyer: http://washingtonwsf.org/2018_WA_Rocky_Mtn_Bighorn_Raffle_Flyer_Download.pdf
Post by: PlateauNDN on May 16, 2018, 10:00:12 AM
Post by: ramslam on May 16, 2018, 11:53:24 AM
Your "how are they managed" questions I need a bit more specifics on in order to answer. All herds in the state have a management plan including population objectives, etc. I would say the Rocky herds in SE Washington are the most intensely managed/monitored bighorns anywhere. The revenue that WDFW gets from the Rocky raffle is used as part of the Hells Canyon initiative which includes lots of collaring and field monitoring of lambs. I really believe the intensity of what happens in the field in Hells Canyon and in the WSU labs is what led researchers to discover that "M Ovi" is at the root of the disease issue for bighorns. New bighorns have been translocated into the Tucannon (a few from Asotin and some from MT) as well as Hall Mtn (from MT). The "test and cull" for M Ovi shedders was born right here in our Asotin unit and seems to be working. It's now being applied in Black Butte.
I wrote the proposal for the Rocky raffle in 2004 and presented to the WDFW commission in April that year on behalf of WA WSF. It was approved and the first WA Rocky raffle occurred in 2005. What spawned the idea for it for me was as I spent time in the SE herds filming and watching rams, I realized that within many of the herds an older, mature ram or two was present. Because of the low overall numbers due to the 95-96 die-off, however, the individual herds did not meet meet the threshold to have a draw tag, collectively they did. We know because of extensive telemetry data that movement exists. Bighorns from the Wenaha can go the Mtn View or Tucannon and those in Mtn View can go to Asotin Ck or Black Butte, etc. Obviously, Hall Mtn is isolated but including it as an open unit does give the raffle winner the option to hunt there or another open unit. I do not recall what year 113 was added but since then only one of the raffle rams has come from up there. Bios make recommendations each year on which units are added or subtracted in order to minimize any biological impact. Of course the same tag system could be used for a "Rocky draw tag" instead of raffle but without the benefit of money raised specifically for our Rockys (gotta be pushing $2 million since its inception?).
One other interesting tid bit is the WA rocky raffle has only been won 4 or 5 times by the person that spent the most out of 13 years of the raffle. I can actually only think of four but in my old age I might be forgetting one! The drawing is always drawn by WDFW at one of their offices in mid July. We kinda have a long window to do the drawing and that's simply scheduling with WDFW.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions. Now I need to order my tickets! I'm waaaaaay over due!
Glen
Post by: Tbar on May 16, 2018, 05:52:19 PM
Just saw your questions Tbar so I will weigh in...Interesting and thank you for taking the time. I have several questions about this tag/raffle. You obviously have tremendous knowledge about sheep, especially this herd. I also appreciate all the work and awareness on M ovi you guys have done. Interesting you wrote the proposal, do you also have a financial interest in this hunt? Or a more specific question, have you outfitted or guided many of the "winners" of this raffle?
Your "how are they managed" questions I need a bit more specifics on in order to answer. All herds in the state have a management plan including population objectives, etc. I would say the Rocky herds in SE Washington are the most intensely managed/monitored bighorns anywhere. The revenue that WDFW gets from the Rocky raffle is used as part of the Hells Canyon initiative which includes lots of collaring and field monitoring of lambs. I really believe the intensity of what happens in the field in Hells Canyon and in the WSU labs is what led researchers to discover that "M Ovi" is at the root of the disease issue for bighorns. New bighorns have been translocated into the Tucannon (a few from Asotin and some from MT) as well as Hall Mtn (from MT). The "test and cull" for M Ovi shedders was born right here in our Asotin unit and seems to be working. It's now being applied in Black Butte.
I wrote the proposal for the Rocky raffle in 2004 and presented to the WDFW commission in April that year on behalf of WA WSF. It was approved and the first WA Rocky raffle occurred in 2005. What spawned the idea for it for me was as I spent time in the SE herds filming and watching rams, I realized that within many of the herds an older, mature ram or two was present. Because of the low overall numbers due to the 95-96 die-off, however, the individual herds did not meet meet the threshold to have a draw tag, collectively they did. We know because of extensive telemetry data that movement exists. Bighorns from the Wenaha can go the Mtn View or Tucannon and those in Mtn View can go to Asotin Ck or Black Butte, etc. Obviously, Hall Mtn is isolated but including it as an open unit does give the raffle winner the option to hunt there or another open unit. I do not recall what year 113 was added but since then only one of the raffle rams has come from up there. Bios make recommendations each year on which units are added or subtracted in order to minimize any biological impact. Of course the same tag system could be used for a "Rocky draw tag" instead of raffle but without the benefit of money raised specifically for our Rockys (gotta be pushing $2 million since its inception?).
One other interesting tid bit is the WA rocky raffle has only been won 4 or 5 times by the person that spent the most out of 13 years of the raffle. I can actually only think of four but in my old age I might be forgetting one! The drawing is always drawn by WDFW at one of their offices in mid July. We kinda have a long window to do the drawing and that's simply scheduling with WDFW.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have other questions. Now I need to order my tickets! I'm waaaaaay over due!
Glen
Post by: ramslam on May 16, 2018, 07:39:59 PM
Interestingly, in the 11th hour WDFW tried to make it an auction tag. Myself and many other WA WSF members lobbied to allow a $20 entry for all. Of course big raffle players have changed that game, but at least we have a chance right? It’s definitely not perfect but I hope the revenue generated can help all of our rocky herds in the end. WAWSF has marketed this tag on behalf of WDFW all but one year since 2005.
I think I’ve been a guide on three of the tags or so, but I’m guessing I’ve burned 20 times what I’ve made in gas since that initial die off in 1995. :-). I recently completed a school research project with my students that included two tours at WSU and about 5 hours of meetings with Dr Tom Besser. That said, Not gonna deny it, I love hunting sheep too!
Hopefully the conservation closure in Asotin will allow the rams to recover to allow it to be hunted soon, including a draw tag. Wenaha is only open this year as next year it goes to Oregon since we share those sheep. Tucannon and Black Butte are further away I think.
Hope that helps! Let me know if you have other questions, I’ll do my best to share what I know for what it’s worth.
Post by: 180-GRAIN on May 16, 2018, 07:58:58 PM
Post by: ramslam on May 16, 2018, 08:03:48 PM
Asotin got hit hard by tribal harvest and some poaching that led to its closure. There is now a conservation closure self-imposed by the NPT. Those rams grow fast so hopefully another couple years?
Post by: Tbar on May 16, 2018, 08:12:39 PM
I’ll see if I can round up some recent he’d counts. I’m cautiously optimistic.How many tags to tribes draw? Do they track harvest and populations?
Asotin got hit hard by tribal harvest and some poaching that led to its closure. There is now a conservation closure self-imposed by the NPT. Those rams grow fast so hopefully another couple years?
@Igotbigbulls
Post by: ramslam on May 16, 2018, 08:26:19 PM
Post by: Tbar on May 16, 2018, 08:47:41 PM
My interest back then was how do we put together a plan to make some of these older rams available and generate revenue to help recover our rocky herds. Bighorns are spendy to manage! I drew the Mtn View permit in 1995, my first year ever applying. That winter was the catastrophic Hells Canyon die off so as my passion for bighorns was initiated with my own hunt, my passion for recovery of the populations is what followed.Very intriguing, after the catastrophic die off of 95-96 a Washington based NGO starts funneling significant funds into Mexico? Forgive my skepticism but your story is missing something or I am. As for management being expensive, absolutely! That said the species direct funding is not necessarily the mechanism (raffle) but could lie in allocation of funds (wildlife fund vs species direct) from the draw. This could be a simple change.
Interestingly, in the 11th hour WDFW tried to make it an auction tag. Myself and many other WA WSF members lobbied to allow a $20 entry for all. Of course big raffle players have changed that game, but at least we have a chance right? It’s definitely not perfect but I hope the revenue generated can help all of our rocky herds in the end. WAWSF has marketed this tag on behalf of WDFW all but one year since 2005.
I think I’ve been a guide on three of the tags or so, but I’m guessing I’ve burned 20 times what I’ve made in gas since that initial die off in 1995. :-). I recently completed a school research project with my students that included two tours at WSU and about 5 hours of meetings with Dr Tom Besser. That said, Not gonna deny it, I love hunting sheep too!
Hopefully the conservation closure in Asotin will allow the rams to recover to allow it to be hunted soon, including a draw tag. Wenaha is only open this year as next year it goes to Oregon since we share those sheep. Tucannon and Black Butte are further away I think.
Hope that helps! Let me know if you have other questions, I’ll do my best to share what I know for what it’s worth.
Post by: ramslam on May 16, 2018, 08:58:58 PM
Post by: Tbar on May 16, 2018, 09:03:05 PM
Post by: Dan-o on May 16, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
Wa wsf didn't contribute to seri Indians in Mexico?
What are you trying to get at?
Post by: ramslam on May 16, 2018, 09:17:06 PM
Last year our take off the WA rocky raffle was about $7500, although some of that is used for credit card fees.We provided $10,000 in emergency funding due to the change in helicopter vendor after the tragic crash in Garfield County. Quicksilver from Colorado completed the capture but was much more expensive. We provide the added funding so it could go in as planned.
As far as rocky projects, we had a special “Back in Black Butte” fundraiser last year and have a nice warchest to get that herd going again. Challenged OR FNAWS to do the same. Working with bios to clear M Ovi from there and hopefully get that herd turned around.
Post by: Tbar on May 16, 2018, 09:24:55 PM
Yes, when we’ve sold an auction tag for Tiburon island. Same for Baja. We call that cooperative funding. For those, 90% goes to Seris, WSF 5% and WA WSF 5%. We’ve usually turned right around and taken the 5-10% that we get from those tags and put right back “on the ground”. We haven’t sold a Tib tag for a few years.Did you guide any of those hunters in Mexico?
Last year our take off the WA rocky raffle was about $7500, although some of that is used for credit card fees.We provided $10,000 in emergency funding due to the change in helicopter vendor after the tragic crash in Garfield County. Quicksilver from Colorado completed the capture but was much more expensive. We provide the added funding so it could go in as planned.
As far as rocky projects, we had a special “Back in Black Butte” fundraiser last year and have a nice warchest to get that herd going again. Challenged OR FNAWS to do the same. Working with bios to clear M Ovi from there and hopefully get that herd turned around.
Post by: ramslam on May 16, 2018, 09:26:07 PM
Post by: Tbar on May 16, 2018, 09:27:13 PM
Post by: Tbar on May 16, 2018, 09:30:59 PM
Post by: Dan-o on May 16, 2018, 09:44:31 PM
I really appreciate all of the time, effort and money you've poured into helping our sheep.
Post by: ramslam on May 17, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
Do you live in Okanogan, Douglas, Grant, Adams, Yakima, Benton, or Franklin counties? If so, we need your help ASAP. Rep. Newhouse (R-Sunnyside) is a co-sponsor on Amendment 106 to the Farm Bill. This amendment: Act (the 2018 “Farm Bill”) requiring the Secretary of Agriculture to:
“…make vacant grazing allotments available to a holder of a grazing permit or lease…if the lands covered by the permit or lease are unusable because of a natural disaster, court-issued injunction, or conflict with wildlife…”
The proposed amendment also restricts court-issued injunctions “enjoining the use of any allotment for which a permit or lease has been issued…unless the Secretary…can make a vacant grazing allotment available to the holder of such permit…”
Further, Amendment 106 considers these actions “categorically excluded” from environmental assessments or environmental impact statement under NEPA. A copy of the proposed amendment is attached.
This amendment will prevent the requirement to complete a new National Environmental Policy (NEPA) domestic grazing allotment with the recent completion of the Risk of Contact for many of our California Bighorn herds in north central Washington.
If you live in one of the aforementioned counties, please go to:
https://newhouse.house.gov/contact
Type in your zip code and strongly encourage him to withdraw Amendment 106. The amendment is bad for bighorn sheep, hunters, sportsmen & women and looks to protect only one family that benefits from public land domestic sheep grazing in Washington. You can also call his Washington, DC office at 202-225-5816.
If you are outside those listed counties, feel free to go to
https://www.house.gov/representati…/find-your-representative
Send a note that hunters and sportsmen & women do not support "Farm Bill 2018 Amendment 106."
Thank you!
Post by: Falcon on May 22, 2018, 02:08:24 PM
Post by: Threewolves on May 22, 2018, 09:05:37 PM
Post by: Falcon on May 22, 2018, 09:28:17 PM
Post by: nwhunter on May 22, 2018, 11:07:44 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2018, 06:46:19 AM
Lots of good info and questions here.. Tbar it sounds like you have an axe to grind ...You went from asking some legit questions to almost portraying a scandal and now you want Mossback running the raffle.. I am confused but I am simple minded...:yeah: count me as simple minded as well.
Post by: Timberstalker on May 23, 2018, 06:51:11 AM
Lots of good info and questions here.. Tbar it sounds like you have an axe to grind ...You went from asking some legit questions to almost portraying a scandal and now you want Mossback running the raffle.. I am confused but I am simple minded...:yeah: count me as simple minded as well.
We have, since November of 2008.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2018, 06:56:28 AM
:yike:Lots of good info and questions here.. Tbar it sounds like you have an axe to grind ...You went from asking some legit questions to almost portraying a scandal and now you want Mossback running the raffle.. I am confused but I am simple minded...:yeah: count me as simple minded as well.
We have, since November of 2008.
Post by: nwhunter on May 23, 2018, 08:30:42 AM
Post by: 92xj on May 23, 2018, 08:47:49 AM
It was a joke...
Hunting season needs to get here quick.
Post by: Timberstalker on May 23, 2018, 09:07:10 AM
That's when he joined the site and people here started counting him as simple minded.
It was a joke...
Hunting season needs to get here quick.
Correct, on both accounts!
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2018, 09:17:53 AM
I prefer straight forward!! 😁That's when he joined the site and people here started counting him as simple minded.
It was a joke...
Hunting season needs to get here quick.
Correct, on both accounts!
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on May 23, 2018, 05:59:23 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on May 23, 2018, 06:31:33 PM
Before I decide to go in on this... I want to know just a general cost for a guide if you did get this tag through the raffle?I don’t believe you would absolutely need one, I bet people would step up with info and love to be there to help out.
Post by: Timberstalker on May 23, 2018, 07:39:55 PM
Before I decide to go in on this... I want to know just a general cost for a guide if you did get this tag through the raffle?
I’ll take you for free if you draw.
Post by: W_Ellison2011 on May 23, 2018, 08:40:32 PM
On a tight budget already. let me talk to the accountant, aka my wife lol, and see if we can throw $100 on this raffle!Before I decide to go in on this... I want to know just a general cost for a guide if you did get this tag through the raffle?
I’ll take you for free if you draw.
Post by: elkchaser54 on May 31, 2018, 04:19:13 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 31, 2018, 05:14:44 PM
Before I decide to go in on this... I want to know just a general cost for a guide if you did get this tag through the raffle?
I’ll take you for free if you draw.
And I'll guide Timberstalker if he's guiding you. No charge.
Post by: Timberstalker on June 01, 2018, 11:07:46 AM
I just go for the campfires and beer. Isn't that what hunting is all about?
Post by: jackelope on June 01, 2018, 12:56:31 PM
:chuckle:
I just go for the campfires and beer. Isn't that what hunting is all about?
I think I've heard about your favorite beer.
Post by: bugs n bones on June 01, 2018, 01:19:58 PM
Post by: Timberstalker on June 01, 2018, 02:04:44 PM
:chuckle:
I just go for the campfires and beer. Isn't that what hunting is all about?
I think I've heard about your favorite beer.
It’s pretty expensive. You might not have.
Post by: jackelope on June 01, 2018, 10:01:04 PM
I might win, who’s gonna guide me? 8)
Timberstalker and I. Busch Light outfitters!
Post by: trophyhunt on June 01, 2018, 10:57:20 PM
Post by: Falcon on June 03, 2018, 09:11:44 AM
:yike: umm, I want in!!!
Of course you do :drool:
Post by: elkchaser54 on June 06, 2018, 09:35:41 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on June 06, 2018, 10:17:27 AM
Post by: scree on June 09, 2018, 05:35:44 PM
Post by: Falcon on June 10, 2018, 07:41:21 AM
Current ticket count is 2715. Ticket sales are updated regularly on our website washingtonwsf.org the raffle flyer is on there too. Good luck everyone!
:yeah:
Those are pretty low numbers for a tag of that quality. Great chance for the only Rocky tag in Washington.
Best of luck to all👊💥👊