Post by: idaho guy on May 15, 2018, 05:10:55 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 15, 2018, 05:21:21 PM
You would not need a hunting license to apply for moose, sheep, and mountain goat permits but the odds of drawing one of them (especially sheep and goat) are very low as well: 1 in 1000 or worse in many cases.
You could say "why not?" and apply because someone draws these permits every year, but it's very unlikely that you would when you're just starting out.
Post by: trophyhunt on May 15, 2018, 05:22:53 PM
Post by: Bob33 on May 15, 2018, 05:24:27 PM
Post by: idaho guy on May 15, 2018, 05:29:57 PM
If you are a non-resident, you would need to purchase a non-resident hunting license ($740 for deer and elk) to apply for deer and elk permits. The odds of drawing a "quality' deer or elk tag, especially with no points are extremely low. Washington is a "bonus point" rather than "preference point" state so you would never be guaranteed to draw, even after 100 years of applying.
You would not need a hunting license to apply for moose, sheep, and mountain goat permits but the odds of drawing one of them (especially sheep and goat) are very low as well: 1 in 1000 or worse in many cases.
You could say "why not?" and apply because someone draws these permits every year, but it's very unlikely that you would when you're just starting out.
I need to clarify Washington is the only state I would NOT apply in. Thanks Bob but I already did the math on Washington and not interested I am interested in other western states-Nevada,Wyoming,utah,new mexico Colorado.
Post by: idaho guy on May 15, 2018, 05:43:49 PM
Post by: chester on May 15, 2018, 05:44:14 PM
Post by: KFhunter on May 15, 2018, 05:44:38 PM
edit: Oh I see you're not talking about WA :chuckle:
Post by: NRA4LIFE on May 15, 2018, 06:13:12 PM
Post by: idaho guy on May 15, 2018, 07:13:47 PM
The real premiere trophy elk units in Colorado will be impossible to draw before you're sodded in.guess I will scratch that one! thinking mule deer in Colorado anyways
Post by: whacker1 on May 15, 2018, 07:18:57 PM
Post by: meatwhack on May 15, 2018, 08:18:58 PM
Post by: idaho guy on May 15, 2018, 09:07:38 PM
inbox is full Idaho guy
[/quote
Deleted a bunch
Post by: idaho guy on May 15, 2018, 09:14:11 PM
If you’re only looking at building points for premium hunts in those states then no it’s not worth it. You’d be way too far behind the curve to draw in the next hundred years. There are tags though that you could draw with less points and go have a fun hunt just depends on what you’re looking for.
I don’t need a premium tag. I feel like for me I already have good otc hunts that I know well and do every year so for the time and travel I would want a lot better than I could do in Idaho or Montana with a general tag. I don’t know if that clarifys anything I just don’t know how good a drawable tag would be. Knowing the country means a lot too when it comes to turning up quality animals so I think about that too
Post by: opdinkslayer on May 15, 2018, 09:28:37 PM
Post by: runamuk on May 15, 2018, 09:33:26 PM
Post by: WAcoueshunter on May 15, 2018, 10:10:40 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on May 15, 2018, 10:13:27 PM
Nope:yeah:
Its a tossup if you have 15 points now on whether to continue or not. Zero points - no brainer - go somewhere else !
Post by: idaho guy on May 16, 2018, 08:11:14 AM
Nope:yeah:
Its a tossup if you have 15 points now on whether to continue or not. Zero points - no brainer - go somewhere else !
I think this is in reference to Washington Again I am Not considering putting in for wa hunts at all. looking for opinions on other western states besides Idaho where I live and obviously put in every year for what I can
Post by: Ridgerunner on May 16, 2018, 08:32:36 AM
And yes I do think people become addicted to the point game, how many points they have can feed the ego, but I think one of the main reasons is it allows a guy to dream each year about the various tags he might draw. If you run the math, I think you might be shocked at how much $$$$$ it takes to go ALL in on the points game. too much imo which is why I pick and choose the states and species that I think I'll see a good return on, and I'm in my early 40's and have been playing the game for over 20 years.
Post by: jjhunter on May 16, 2018, 08:55:16 AM
Draw odds are tough right now, but everything is cyclical. When this economy slows down (particularly the building industry), tags get cheaper, draw odds improve, and I invest :chuckle:
Post by: Duckhunter14 on May 16, 2018, 03:09:01 PM
Do some research, apply for less sought after tags that are still quality hunts and you will increase your odds. My buddy and I drew less sought after MT elk tags by applying for archery and killed two decent 6 points with our bows two years ago. My buddy applied for a moose permit in Idaho last year that everyone said was a terrible unit and he killed a P&Y bull on the third day. Granted he scouted his butt off, but by applying for less sought after tags and doing your homework you can still kill quality animals and not wait 25 years. Just takes a little more work and some more research.
Good luck! Id say its never too late. Someone has to draw. :tup:
Clint
Post by: idaho guy on May 17, 2018, 03:11:23 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 17, 2018, 03:39:23 PM
Post by: theleo on May 17, 2018, 04:02:48 PM
Post by: Threewolves on May 23, 2018, 10:26:52 PM
If I just hunt Elk, deer and bear over the counter I am fine. Used to live in AK & took five moose. Life is too short, you only have so many sunsets choose to use them wisely.
Post by: idaho guy on May 25, 2018, 11:06:49 AM
I'd invest if you have some areas in mind that might just take 3-4 years to draw and you don't have to deal with OTC hunters in the same unit. You've got OTC opportunities in your home state that'd take 5+ years to draw in Oregon, 10+ for Washington. Those once in a lifetime draw units usually take a lifetime of applications under a point system.That is exactly what I was wondering if some of the 5-10 year draw tags wouldn't even give me a better hunt than otc res.
That's part of the struggle is I can and do hunt otc deer,elk,bear and lion every year in Idaho and can get the guaranteed resident- non resident deer and elk tag every year in Montana for about half price. So I don't need to fill any holes in my year with general or just ok hunts out of state. It would be ok to wait 5-10 years for a tag since I will be hunting every year in the meantime. I feel I already have excellent hunts I can do in the general seasons and don't want to put a lot of effort into researching tags/areas that might be the same or slightly better than Idaho or Montana general seasons. All the input has been good thank you! I guess I just have to do more homework before I even decide to jump in. It sounds like Wyoming and Colorado(deer only) are worth it for a better hunt but I can still draw before I am dead? And then as a longshot since no points do new mexico every year. I appreciate the information just looking for the states maybe to start researchng hard first. I will always put in Idaho and Montana since I already hunt those states every year.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 25, 2018, 11:39:24 AM
Post by: bearpaw on May 25, 2018, 11:54:50 AM
I think a person needs to look at the odds and points needed for the hunts you want plus you must figure it will get tougher with point creep as years go by verses the cost to go north or pay for a landowner tag or outfitter depending on the hunt desired. If you are a young person I would apply for and accumulate as many points as possible, you will outlive older persons already applying. In some cases especially for an older person, some hunts such as mountain goats or big elk, it may be cheaper in the long run to buy a hunt for 10k in Alaska or Canada or buy an outfitted hunt or a landowner tag, rather than apply and waste money applying in numerous states and never get drawn?
Post by: idaho guy on May 25, 2018, 01:40:54 PM
There isn't a one-size fits all answer to this question, I think you need to consider several factors! :twocents:
I think a person needs to look at the odds and points needed for the hunts you want plus you must figure it will get tougher with point creep as years go by verses the cost to go north or pay for a landowner tag or outfitter depending on the hunt desired. If you are a young person I would apply for and accumulate as many points as possible, you will outlive older persons already applying. In some cases especially for an older person, some hunts such as mountain goats or big elk, it may be cheaper in the long run to buy a hunt for 10k in Alaska or Canada or buy an outfitted hunt or a landowner tag, rather than apply and waste money applying in numerous states and never get drawn?
That makes sense I was wondering about landowner tags as an option but cant find a lot of information on them besides a pretty limited list of tags for sale by tag brokers and I was told they double the price typically over the cost from the landowner. Everybody should and needs to make money but if they double the price that seems pretty excessive. I would buy an upper end landowner tag just to experience one of those hunts one time.(I don't know what the actual cost would be) I guess a bucket list item. It does seem like a guide might actually save you money on some species mountain goat for sure. If I don't eventually draw that in Idaho or Montana I will go that route
Post by: idaho guy on May 25, 2018, 01:44:02 PM
This year will be a change in Colorado. Lots of newcomers to he point game there so tags may not be as easy to get moving forward. :twocents:
Is the change just a ton of new hunters applying this year?
Post by: whacker1 on May 25, 2018, 02:00:10 PM
This year will be a change in Colorado. Lots of newcomers to he point game there so tags may not be as easy to get moving forward. :twocents:
Is the change just a ton of new hunters applying this year?
one used to have to prefund the tags and they would return the tag costs if you did not draw. This year they moved to a license and application cost, and no longer required to pre-fund the tag. post draw purchase of the tag, so easier to acquire points and apply if you don't have as much cash outlay state by state.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 25, 2018, 02:40:19 PM
:yeah:This year will be a change in Colorado. Lots of newcomers to he point game there so tags may not be as easy to get moving forward. :twocents:
Is the change just a ton of new hunters applying this year?
one used to have to prefund the tags and they would return the tag costs if you did not draw. This year they moved to a license and application cost, and no longer required to pre-fund the tag. post draw purchase of the tag, so easier to acquire points and apply if you don't have as much cash outlay state by state.
Having to front the tag fee to apply or accrue a point kept numbers down.
Im guessing there will be some upset people after the draw that don’t realize they will still hit you with a $40 per species point fee unless you held a license last year.
Now there are tons of people who are applying because it’s cheap and doesn’t tie up a bunch of cash. Heck I bought an elk point that I would have not bought if I had to front the $600.
Post by: idaho guy on May 25, 2018, 02:50:26 PM
:yeah:This year will be a change in Colorado. Lots of newcomers to he point game there so tags may not be as easy to get moving forward. :twocents:
Is the change just a ton of new hunters applying this year?
one used to have to prefund the tags and they would return the tag costs if you did not draw. This year they moved to a license and application cost, and no longer required to pre-fund the tag. post draw purchase of the tag, so easier to acquire points and apply if you don't have as much cash outlay state by state.
Having to front the tag fee to apply or accrue a point kept numbers down.
Im guessing there will be some upset people after the draw that don’t realize they will still hit you with a $40 per species point fee unless you held a license last year.
Now there are tons of people who are applying because it’s cheap and doesn’t tie up a bunch of cash. Heck I bought an elk point that I would have not bought if I had to front the $600.
10-4 thanks! Lots to learn feel like I’m back in school ha ha
Post by: Stein on May 25, 2018, 02:56:22 PM
I'm amazed that anything having to do with cost doesn't really move the needle. Some states have passed huge NR fee increases and the number of applicants doesn't seem to budge much. If it does, it is only very temporary.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 25, 2018, 03:36:57 PM
If you look at other states, having to front the cash doesn't seem to move the number of applicants. Most people swipe the plastic at the last couple days and then either figure out how to pay or get a credit back on the card.Colorado oil apps were up 300-500% this year...
I'm amazed that anything having to do with cost doesn't really move the needle. Some states have passed huge NR fee increases and the number of applicants doesn't seem to budge much. If it does, it is only very temporary.
that’s a pretty drastic increase.
Also I have read that nonresident deer apps are up 100% it more over last year.
Both of these are huge and directly related to not having to front the fees. :twocents:
Post by: meatwhack on May 25, 2018, 03:43:18 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 25, 2018, 03:52:07 PM
I bought an elk point this year, because of that and it was cheap to do so I will eventually apply for an elk tag. If I had to loan them $600 each year I wouldn’t have bothered. :twocents:
Post by: idaho guy on May 26, 2018, 07:30:13 AM
Eventually those point buyers will want to draw tags though.
I bought an elk point this year, because of that and it was cheap to do so I will eventually apply for an elk tag. If I had to loan them $600 each year I wouldn’t have bothered. :twocents:
How many points are you shootin for before you would apply? How many do you think you would need to have a realistic chance of drawing a good tag
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 26, 2018, 08:33:24 AM
Eventually those point buyers will want to draw tags though.I don’t have any plan and haven’t even looked into it at all. Mostly just bought the point because it was cheap. I would guess in the 4-7 point range I’ll probably look to get a tag.
I bought an elk point this year, because of that and it was cheap to do so I will eventually apply for an elk tag. If I had to loan them $600 each year I wouldn’t have bothered. :twocents:
How many points are you shootin for before you would apply? How many do you think you would need to have a realistic chance of drawing a good tag
Post by: meatwhack on May 26, 2018, 10:31:12 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 26, 2018, 11:17:52 AM
The fee for Colorado elk was never $600 to build points back when you had to front the money.You did have to pay the entire tag fee to them and they would refund most of it after the draw. When I was building deer points I was out $400 for 2 months from the application deadline until after the draw. Unless I was missing something elk was the same way?
Post by: meatwhack on May 26, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 26, 2018, 12:11:17 PM
Elk you had to front the money but if you were doing points only you only had to front the money for a cow tag. I think it was around $400 can’t remember exact amount. The part I dislike about any of the increased fees is none of the money is helping F&G it’s just paying the credit card companies.I didn’t know that. Thanks for prividing helpful info instead of just telling me I’m wrong. :tup:
Post by: Bigshooter on May 26, 2018, 01:12:18 PM
Post by: paultanninen on June 11, 2018, 07:49:20 AM