Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 08:27:02 AM
For one I noticed the wiring as been messed with quite severely and not in a good way. Some 0 gauge wires dangling free and just pressed under some random bolts. Used red wire for grounds, so yeah kind of messed.
In addition to that when I did manage to get it to start, it had a really bad sounding engine knock. Not a pretty noise. Literally sounds like a hammer hitting metal over and over. It idled fine and kept running although the sound is something that makes you want to shut it right off. So I'm assuming theres some real damage somewhere.
Pockets are pretty shallow so its gonna take me probably years to get this thing drivable. Figured I'd get to work on my own little outdoor rig.
Should I risk rebuilding or trying to find a new or used motor?
Figured there has to be a few guys on here with experience on these motors being as they're so common..
Alittle added thing, the guy I got it from said it ran fairly decent untill gus buddy changed out the freeze plugs, now it's in the shape it's in now. At this point aw ith a full battery I can't even get it to crank, assuming because the masses of wires that need to be fixed.
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 08:32:53 AM
Post by: NRA4LIFE on May 21, 2018, 10:00:37 AM
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 10:07:14 AM
That looks to be in remarkable shape! Maybe an engine rebuild?Yeah it really is, last thing I wanted was another non-running vehicle but for the price I couldn't pass it up. Hopefully some ford vets will chime in on this motor, I Know it's the same motor that's in the 250 and 350 of that era, even some older mustang's given some added hp mods. Rebuild would be cheaper but it's just a matter of if what's going on with it is some "fluke" and it's really not as bad as it sounds, or its gonna be completely messed up inside.
Post by: CP on May 21, 2018, 11:15:36 AM
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 11:20:55 AM
A "knock" could be a lot of things, none of them good. A new (rebuilt) short block will correct most problems of that type.Yeah I figured, something like this then?
https://spprecision.com/products/351-windsor-short-block-engine-sale.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3InYBRCLARIsAG6bfMT6l-pglHpdoTxdj99Watuiuh8QJQkFnaSXHoUAZBvAbd_uQ0dxJr4aAvKKEALw_wcB
Odd...
From the website
Production Years Covered
1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Literally skips 1992, wonder what's different? Short block just means the upper right?not the complete upper/lower "longblock"?
Post by: Crunchy on May 21, 2018, 11:24:46 AM
Post by: CP on May 21, 2018, 11:31:05 AM
A "knock" could be a lot of things, none of them good. A new (rebuilt) short block will correct most problems of that type.Yeah I figured, something like this then?
https://spprecision.com/products/351-windsor-short-block-engine-sale.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3InYBRCLARIsAG6bfMT6l-pglHpdoTxdj99Watuiuh8QJQkFnaSXHoUAZBvAbd_uQ0dxJr4aAvKKEALw_wcB
Odd...
From the website
Production Years Covered
1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Literally skips 1992, wonder what's different? Short block just means the upper right?not the complete upper/lower "longblock"?
A short block does not include the heads, just the crank, pistons, etc.
There are different versions of the 351 out there e.g. 351M, 351C, 351W - I believe the W is a small, block the others are a "big" block, but I'm no expert - do your research.
Post by: Zardoz on May 21, 2018, 11:33:19 AM
A "knock" could be a lot of things, none of them good. A new (rebuilt) short block will correct most problems of that type.Yeah I figured, something like this then?
https://spprecision.com/products/351-windsor-short-block-engine-sale.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3InYBRCLARIsAG6bfMT6l-pglHpdoTxdj99Watuiuh8QJQkFnaSXHoUAZBvAbd_uQ0dxJr4aAvKKEALw_wcB
Odd...
From the website
Production Years Covered
1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Literally skips 1992, wonder what's different? Short block just means the upper right?not the complete upper/lower "longblock"?
Down in the "Specs" it covers 92-93. Probably have to call them and see if whats special about yours.
Post by: Bofire on May 21, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
Carl
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 01:11:24 PM
you do not know about the motor, freeze plugs are not replaced for fun. Knock. :dunno: Find a used motor, buy a short block, rebuild it, get the heads done too. Hows the brakes and tranny?Everything else seems solid... just...the sound...
Carl
Post by: Mudman on May 21, 2018, 02:00:11 PM
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 02:13:13 PM
Freeze plugs?!?! Red flag. Its a boat anchor probably. Buy a good runner used/wrecking yard etc. Rebuild will cost ya more. Nice truck. Drop the oil pan and inspect for metal shaves and damage first. Wires could just be some radio/cb/light mods? Trace em to source and repair/remove. Ground doesn't care if its red/black/white! I have used red! :yike:Lol I know it doesnt matter, just makes it alittle more anoying when tracking them down. Wires look like they just cut out the factory stuff and replaced them with bigger wires and did a poor job. Yeah oil pan will be the first thing I do, hell I dont even remember if I even checked if it had oil in it 😳, I've found a few cheap running vehicles for 3-500. Just dont know 100% if they will swap. One chick has a hideous van with a cartoon pain job on the side for 300 but it runs.
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2018, 02:18:59 PM
Wonder if he broke the flex plate putting the engine back in it after doing freeze plugs? If there's an inspection cover at the bell housing you can pull and look? Just a thought.
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 02:48:45 PM
Post by: luckyman on May 21, 2018, 04:58:16 PM
I missed the part about it already running, albeit poorly.I was ready to suggest this also. I picked up an impala for free, motor knock. loose torque converter bolts.
Wonder if he broke the flex plate putting the engine back in it after doing freeze plugs? If there's an inspection cover at the bell housing you can pull and look? Just a thought.
78 camaro engine knock. loose torque converter bolts.
85 bronco 11 engine knock. cracked flex plate. chevy 3/4 ton 4x4. engine knock. Cracked bolt hole around pump on trany.
Post by: Crunchy on May 21, 2018, 05:09:18 PM
Post by: h20hunter on May 21, 2018, 05:16:41 PM
Post by: luckyman on May 21, 2018, 05:28:20 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 21, 2018, 05:46:04 PM
I'm not overly familiar with this specific motor but you don't always have to pull the motor to install freeze plugs.
I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure there are a couple on the back of the engine block to where you'd have to either pull the engine or transmission for access.
There are 3 down either side of the engine block and then I think there's one on the back of each head. With that said, who knows which ones were replaced.
Pull the inspection cover and have a look. Have someone bump the key to turn the engine slightly while you're watching. You might see it wobble.
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 06:06:28 PM
You guys have given me a few ideas to try tonight before it gets dark hopefully.
Post by: Grit dog on May 21, 2018, 09:44:33 PM
Couple things, if finding a new/ used motor, it's a Windsor, trucks have differnet oil pans and pumps than cars (if you find a takeout from a crown Vic or older Tbird or something), and don't even think about trying to retro fit a 302 or other. Ford small blocks are not near as universal as a small block Chevy or Mopar.
I'd get a wiring schematic and trace/fix that as you go so you don't lose track. And as mentioned, before tearing the engine apart, get someone else knowledgable to look at it with you. Like others, I've bought engines that were "froze up" or "knocked" that were much simpler fixes.
If the engine is toast, a good used engine is cheaper and easier than pretty much any rebuild, IMO, if you just want to get it on the road and don't have specific goals for the engine.
Post by: Smossy on May 21, 2018, 10:16:45 PM
Nice find! We're so lucky out here with vehicles. Where I grew up, that truck, running or not would be a smoldering pile of rust. And even with a blown engine, in that shape like yours would be worth a couple grand at least.Yeah I'm not looking to do any crazy hauling or anything, goal is just to have a solid reliable 4x4. I've went through it visually and it's in surprisingly good condition, everything underneath is almost immaculate, zero rust, maybe just a few new bushings in the suspension nothing serious, few spots on the hood from rocks and the hood needs a good cut and buff. Tried to mess with it today just trying to get it to start. Think my battery was dead. But this thing must need tons of cranking amps cause had a buddy run jumpers and I piggy backed off another battery I had and it wouldn't crank. It would try to, then like just lose all power and shut off. It's like maybe the starter solenoid is shorting out or dying. Gonna try to trickle charge my Optima red top tonight and see if itll crank it tomorrow. It did crank at one point after I got it, and nothing has changed, just wont crank now. Traced a few wires, the wire from the ground to the chassis needs to be replaced. So far that's all I got today. I was hoping to be able to drop the pan but figured out I have to lift the motor out about 6 inches just to get the pan to clear. So if I want to check for metel gonna just have to drain from the plug, cant inspect.
Couple things, if finding a new/ used motor, it's a Windsor, trucks have differnet oil pans and pumps than cars (if you find a takeout from a crown Vic or older Tbird or something), and don't even think about trying to retro fit a 302 or other. Ford small blocks are not near as universal as a small block Chevy or Mopar.
I'd get a wiring schematic and trace/fix that as you go so you don't lose track. And as mentioned, before tearing the engine apart, get someone else knowledgable to look at it with you. Like others, I've bought engines that were "froze up" or "knocked" that were much simpler fixes.
If the engine is toast, a good used engine is cheaper and easier than pretty much any rebuild, IMO, if you just want to get it on the road and don't have specific goals for the engine.
Post by: Grit dog on May 21, 2018, 10:56:12 PM
Also, I think the starter solenoid is still separate mounted on the fender well or close to that. You can jump across the solenoid if it's got a short in it.
Looks like you got a good truck there and great deal to boot
Post by: Oh Mah on May 21, 2018, 11:13:24 PM
Post by: smdave on May 21, 2018, 11:16:03 PM
A "knock" could be a lot of things, none of them good. A new (rebuilt) short block will correct most problems of that type.Yeah I figured, something like this then?
https://spprecision.com/products/351-windsor-short-block-engine-sale.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3InYBRCLARIsAG6bfMT6l-pglHpdoTxdj99Watuiuh8QJQkFnaSXHoUAZBvAbd_uQ0dxJr4aAvKKEALw_wcB
Odd...
From the website
Production Years Covered
1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Literally skips 1992, wonder what's different? Short block just means the upper right?not the complete upper/lower "longblock"?
1992 FORD FORD F150 PICKUP - Engine Assembly 5.8L VIN H, 8th Digit, 8-351W
http://www.carmonkeys.com/1992-FORD-FORD-F150-PICKUP-Engine-Assembly-5-8L-VIN-H-8th-Digit-8-351W-5-Years-Warranty?utm_campaign=google&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3InYBRCLARIsAG6bfMRbYZW5JlV472BECCBavOyyFJXHbo7mmyUZ5B6mSWYRRK1lM8q37EUaAiPnEALw_wcB
Post by: jackelope on May 22, 2018, 02:16:59 PM
:dunno:
Replacing the oil pan in that calls for 6.1 hours labor....and that's a technician with all the right tools. That will be no small task.
Post by: Bofire on May 22, 2018, 02:33:40 PM
Post by: Westside88 on May 22, 2018, 02:49:29 PM
Post by: Smossy on May 22, 2018, 05:05:26 PM
Post by: smdave on May 22, 2018, 07:22:16 PM
Will anything with a 351w swap? Or does it need to be a specific year?
Looks like the 8th digit in the VIN is the Engine code The H example might be yours might not.
1992 FORD FORD F150 PICKUP - Engine Assembly 5.8L VIN H, 8th Digit, 8-351W
Post by: Dirty Mike on May 22, 2018, 09:23:52 PM
Post by: Smossy on January 09, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
She needs a better home than I can find. Runs great, Needs a tuneup and some headliner work. Worth around 2k. I just want my dang truck moving and I cant see being able to fix it myself.