Post by: InsideWDFW on March 14, 2009, 06:04:11 AM
WDFW is about to get, and please pardon the language, assaulted without the benefit of lube or the courtesy of a reach around. I'm not sure if you seen the positions that could potentially get cut, but it's not pretty. I know a big deal has been made about the potential Fish Program cuts, but to be honest these are superficial cuts, the core of their business remains intact.
The cuts in the Wildlife Program on the other hand hit the core pretty hard. While I really can't talk about specifics, there are programs that you guys are very much interested in that could go away. I know people have this idea of the Wildlife program being some huge bureaucracy, but in all honesty it's probably one of the most efficient programs in the State. All told there are around 200 Wildlife program employees statewide. Most of those people are in the field 4 days out of 5, aka the people who actually do things. Even the management in Olympia have packs at their desks for their 2 days of field work. Hell the "official" uniform in Olympia is scuffed up romeo boots, faded, dirty, jeans, and a flannel shirt. Right now we are looking at 20 of those people getting pink slips in a month or two. 10% of the program is going bye bye.
You guys (specifically Hunting Washington members) are pretty good at grassroots campaigns. I get a chuckle watching issues I see here being brought up at work. While I know you may not always like what happens, you have to admit we are not the evil government agency we sometimes are made out to be.
So to get to the point.. our budget is in the hands of a few people in a dome. The cuts that being proposed for WDFW by the legislature/governor are pretty extreme when compared to other state agencies. You guys could help us out by sending a few letters to your legislators. Regretfully the cuts to agencies such as DSHS and DoT are getting way more attention then those to WDFW. I believe you guys know how to bomb WDFW when you get excited about something (see bear seasons as an example), why not show those who control the budget?
Thanks guys.
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on March 14, 2009, 06:33:09 AM
So if you do not mind attaching a few email addresses in here as to where this letter should go I will sit down and write one up.
Thanks
Joe
Post by: Buckrub on March 14, 2009, 06:51:00 AM
I think the only way they listen is not with one but many.
I will do my part....but expect a two way street.
Post by: billythekidrock on March 14, 2009, 06:58:57 AM
First off just want to remind everyone that I post here as a fellow hunter who knows a few things/people that have some say on wildlife management in Washington, I'm not a spokesperson for WDFW by any means.
WDFW is about to get, and please pardon the language, assaulted without the benefit of lube or the courtesy of a reach around. I'm not sure if you seen the positions that could potentially get cut, but it's not pretty. I know a big deal has been made about the potential Fish Program cuts, but to be honest these are superficial cuts, the core of their business remains intact.
The cuts in the Wildlife Program on the other hand hit the core pretty hard. While I really can't talk about specifics, there are programs that you guys are very much interested in that could go away. I know people have this idea of the Wildlife program being some huge bureaucracy, but in all honesty it's probably one of the most efficient programs in the State. All told there are around 200 Wildlife program employees statewide. Most of those people are in the field 4 days out of 5, aka the people who actually do things. Even the management in Olympia have packs at their desks for their 2 days of field work. Hell the "official" uniform in Olympia is scuffed up romeo boots, faded, dirty, jeans, and a flannel shirt. Right now we are looking at 20 of those people getting pink slips in a month or two. 10% of the program is going bye bye.
You guys (specifically Hunting Washington members) are pretty good at grassroots campaigns. I get a chuckle watching issues I see here being brought up at work. While I know you may not always like what happens, you have to admit we are not the evil government agency we sometimes are made out to be.
So to get to the point.. our budget is in the hands of a few people in a dome. The cuts that being proposed for WDFW by the legislature/governor are pretty extreme when compared to other state agencies. You guys could help us out by sending a few letters to your legislators. Regretfully the cuts to agencies such as DSHS and DoT are getting way more attention then those to WDFW. I believe you guys know how to bomb WDFW when you get excited about something (see bear seasons as an example), why not show those who control the budget?
Thanks guys.
I agree. We need the support of WDFW as much as they need our support. Without both things will change in ways that we will not like.
Can someone find or create a list of Legislators so we can make an organised (and responsible) effort?
Post by: InsideWDFW on March 14, 2009, 07:41:26 AM
Like I said earlier, I'm not at liberty to say what may be cut due to the fact that the cuts are speculated until WDFW receives a final budget for the next biennium. I can say that it's looking nasty. Because WDFW, especially the Wildlife program, has been running short staffed for years, these potential cuts (which are higher for us then other agencies) are going to effect the services we provide harder then other programs/agencies.
Eventually I'll put together a post of exactly what positions wildlife has and what they do. But for a little insight we have 2 deer/elk people, 2 bear/cougar/special species people, 1.5 waterfowl people, 1.5 upland game people. There are 17 district biologists with 2 or 3 sub-bios that deal with ALL wildlife (butterflies and mice to eagles and deer). 20 or so research scientists who deal with endangered species, mapping, other studies and reports (game harvest and trend/status). 6 wildlife managers (regional managers), 2 statewide managers (Wildlife Program manager and his deputy). 5 sections managers (Game, Diversity, Science, Lands, Administration), 3 veterinarians, 50 (don't cringe) lands people who do everything from fix the outhouses at the wildlife areas to negotiating grazing leases (don't kill the messenger). There are 9 administration people who do everything from answer phones to license game farms plus support the rest of the staff. Plus a few more that I can't remember this morning.
Each individual above wears quite a few different hats. Non of these people are your standard state worker - they put in a full 40. 70% of them are hunters, 90% have a fishing license.
Now cut 10%
Post by: Wacenturion on March 14, 2009, 08:22:03 AM
Unfortunately you're right ...going to loose some of those field positions which do the work, although it depends on what they do...surveys, meetings, no defined product.....no big loss. Managing and dealing with people, and on the ground improvements for wildlife ...a big deal.
Sorry don't mean to rain on your message....it's just that the current track record (last 10 years or so) of those that run the wildlife management programs in that division is a joke.
Post by: bow-n-head on March 14, 2009, 08:40:00 AM
Post by: Skyhigh on March 14, 2009, 10:20:56 AM
WDFW mentality now would be to close more access sites and alienate more users..Where in fact they should trim some of the fat from the top and actually put more hands on the ground level where it is needed..
Hmm..sound familiar? I remember that coming from Ms. Chrissy four years ago...wonder if it happened?
My opinion and only mine, is that WDFW is going to get huge budget hits these next few years ,as its consituants are fed up with the operation and will decide to pass on purchasing licenses and move onto other forms of recreation..
I am looking at my personal budget and deciding where I get most bang for my buck...As much as I enjoy big game hunting...it is the highest cost for me...travel, food, gas, license etc. etc. maybe its time to enjoy something else?
I bet there are many others out there doing the same thing!
I have heard rumor through legislative contacts that there are 3 avenues being looked at now to help with WDFW budget crisis... One is raising across the board license fees 10% for two years (only temporary) The second is raising select license fees up to 30% (permanantly) and the third is forming a lottery type revenue...
It is a for sure is a tough spot for all agencies right now, and I am leaning for a do nothing attitude on the financial side and ride it out..Have WDFW learn new priorities, discover its weaknesses, from the inside out, instead of from the outside in (like we all know them) basically get broke down and humbled... Crawl back up, set new goals, learn from their past mistakes, LISTEN to constituants and become a new agency that understands who it works for!
Post by: bbarnes on March 14, 2009, 11:12:43 AM
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on March 14, 2009, 03:52:43 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on March 14, 2009, 06:31:29 PM
"I hate to say it, but I think we hunters pail in comparison when it comes to being united."
Post by: Thenewguy on March 14, 2009, 06:40:37 PM
Post by: bbarnes on March 14, 2009, 06:52:34 PM
Post by: Buckrub on March 14, 2009, 08:49:39 PM
I would support the wdfw if we would have a voice but up to this point I haven't seen it.
Creating a lottery system for hunters hasn't done the game or hunters justice at all. Elk are dying of starvation in the st. Helen's area due to lack of management, why? to create a lottery system based on revenue vs. management.
How can hunting survive with very little opportunity for youth?
Has the well paid commission (100+k yr.) really done the job?
We could have the best hunting in the west but lottery style management compounded with habitat expenditures trying to sustain overpopulated pet areas for the dept. is destroying our net worth. I think most hunters would pay for good management.
How much do we have to pay to have a voice?
How many letters, emails and meetings do we have to commit to?
I will pay for common sense management creating opportunity for all hunters especially the youth!
If you want quality hunting for all go to five/ six / seven point or better elk...whatever. manage the herd with hunting days not permits.
Why do we have three point restriction on mule deer? (good mangement)
Why is west side elk different than east side?
NO BS about more cover for eastside...OK, less cover less hunting days with mandatory reporting and GOOD escapement figures to manage properly.
Quality for all not just the lucky few who 10 friggin years of not drawing a permit then having a 35% success rate...what a joke.
OK..my rant :bash: is over...how many emails and where do you want them to go?
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 14, 2009, 09:16:15 PM
OK..my rant :bash: is over...how many emails and where do you want them to go?
I send mine to my senator and reps.....plus a few more. Even rattled Frank chopps cage
Post by: bbarnes on March 14, 2009, 10:06:22 PM
Post by: Snapshot on March 15, 2009, 06:29:56 PM
I believe Commissioners are paid $100 a day on the days they attend meetings plus meals, board and fuel. It is a volunteer position not a paid position.
Post by: Buckrub on March 16, 2009, 05:44:36 AM
Buckrub,
I believe Commissioners are paid $100 a day on the days they attend meetings plus meals, board and fuel. It is a volunteer position not a paid position.
Check closer... I get the email updates from the all mighty governess and there was the latest appointment by her with wages over 100k. I will check again though.
Post by: sturgeon seeker on March 16, 2009, 05:58:58 PM
Post by: KillzElk on March 30, 2009, 08:56:10 PM
Even the management in Olympia have packs at their desks for their 2 days of field work. Hell the "official" uniform in Olympia is scuffed up romeo boots, faded, dirty, jeans, and a flannel shirt. Right now we are looking at 20 of those people getting pink slips in a month or two. 10% of the program is going bye bye.
Next WDFW resources. Guys (and gals) I can't stress enough how much is on the chopping block. As an example we got an e-mail today asking us to use a black and white printer over a color printer.. a savings of $.0039, yes that is .39 of a cent, per page. This is how tight the purse strings are. Spending money at this point in time is not an option, especially on something that is not a necessity (relax, I'll explain).
Ruff Job:
Has the well paid commission (100+k yr.) really done the job?
WDFW wants to spend 3 to 4 million on a new boat to go out in the ocean to do studies.
I believe Commissioners are paid $100 a day on the days they attend meetings plus meals, board and fuel.
I get the email updates from the all mighty governess and there was the latest appointment by her with wages over 100k.
This is just a wrap up of before , I could not help but :lol4: when I saw the Inside WDFW crying about that they cant print color. You should be happy that you even have a job these days. They could cut some cost Fire you pay $40G each for two new employees a year $80G and save money..
Inside WDFW is just a newbie on here with 36 post & keeps dropping names in all the post WHO ARE YOU..... :yike: :yike: :yike:
Post by: InsideWDFW on March 30, 2009, 09:15:25 PM
Did i mention WDFW wants to spend 3 to 4 million on a new boat to go out in the ocean to do studies.i wonder what they will be studying?Help we need money we will be cutting programs this is the money wasting im talking about.
Prove it.
Post by: saylean on March 30, 2009, 09:24:59 PM
Post by: KillzElk on March 30, 2009, 09:26:31 PM
Who needs a job? Check out some of the salaries.. :bash:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/employment/
Found this old but new for some article interesting... :yike: :yike:
This should do the trick and frre up some $$$$$$..
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2009/02/11/department-of-fish-and-wildlife-may-cut-several-yakima-area-positions
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife Proposal 200600500:
http://www.nwcouncil.org/fw/budget/2010/proposal.asp?id=1012
Update on Budget and WDFW Layoffs
http://www.wafwp.org/
Post by: InsideWDFW on March 30, 2009, 10:22:26 PM
Edit: Though a few years old, here's a better idea of what everyone makes. http://lbloom.net/dfw07.html - keep in mind that a majority of these positions required AT least a bachelors, if not a full PH.d.
Post by: KillzElk on March 30, 2009, 11:05:12 PM
Thank You so much for the entertainment..
Post by: MichaelJ on March 30, 2009, 11:25:05 PM
Did you not see the revised proposals from the WDFW after the Eburg meeting? Did you not read how they changed a lot based upon PUBLIC INPUT??? They took a lot of advice from the public and implemented it into the proposals where biologically feasible. I was there and felt like the meeting was a huge success. We spoke, they listened and changed...
WDFW, you got my support. I know there's a lot of beurecratic *censored* that goes on, but I'd much rather have the power to manage in your hands instead of those inside the governors mansion...
Michael
Post by: Buckrub on March 31, 2009, 06:14:15 AM
MichealJ
I'm glad you feel all warm and fuzzy because I don't, of course I have been dealing with them for 40 years.
Anytime you base management on lottery style revenue the animals will suffer. :twocents:
Insidewdfw,
There are very good people inside the wdfw that deserve better.
Post by: billythekidrock on March 31, 2009, 06:22:57 AM
Inside WDFW is just a newbie on here with 36 post & keeps dropping names in all the post WHO ARE YOU..... :yike: :yike: :yike:
Killz - and are you not a newbie?
At least InsideDWFW has contributed in his few threads. What have you done..other then stir the pot?
Post by: Dmanmastertracker on March 31, 2009, 08:59:14 AM
"of course I have been dealing with them for 40 years"
How many meeting's did you attend when you were 7?
Amazing and sad how many "outdoorsmen" would rather get rid of their only voice, then support it. If you think ODFW does thing's better, you haven't been down there much, or really looked into their current system, most Oregonian's are extremely unhappy with the current level of opportunity and Oregon has over 2x the forested land/ habitat now than Washington does. I personally don't care for most of Oregon's State politics and have no desire to follow their lead on any level.
Post by: KillzElk on March 31, 2009, 09:35:29 AM
Inside WDFW is just a newbie on here with 36 post & keeps dropping names in all the post WHO ARE YOU..... :yike: :yike: :yike:
Killz - and are you not a newbie?
At least InsideDWFW has contributed in his few threads. What have you done..other then stir the pot?
You are 100% correct on being a newbie.. Thank You.. I have been to several meetings to voice myself to the panel .. When I realized that what may happen should not happen I have been falling it very close.. I will also work on to contribute in a few more threads.
Sorry for stiring the pot (reference) :stirthepot: I am just breathing like everyone else ..
I wanna be able to shoot guns like everyone else :mgun: also camp :cmp1: ,hunt :hunter: ,fish :fishin:,hike :beatdeadhorse:..
See at the next meeting....
The second public comment session is 6 to 9 p.m. April 13 in the Camas Police Department Community Room, 2100 NE Third St., Camas. Written comments can be submitted to the committee’s Web site, www.skamaniacounty.org/SHAC.htm
Where you here?
Mount St. Helens panel hears from public on draft plan Monday, March 30, 2009..
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/31/top_story/doc49d16007f408c282374700.txt
Related articles from last meeting for the ones that missed :
Public access to High Lakes may require major public funding (March 20)
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/20/this_day/doc49c2c364e563f168529464.txt
Mount St. Helens National Park supporters aren't backing down (March 5)
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/05/area_news/doc49b099585c73b861331943.txt
The vision for Mount St. Helens (March 2)
http://www.tdn.com/articles/2009/03/02/top_story/doc49ab8d8a97d82576849264.txt
Thank You .....
Post by: MichaelJ on March 31, 2009, 12:23:10 PM
MichealJ
I'm glad you feel all warm and fuzzy because I don't, of course I have been dealing with them for 40 years.
Anytime you base management on lottery style revenue the animals will suffer. :twocents:
Insidewdfw,
There are very good people inside the wdfw that deserve better.
Big surprise, more opinion and personal biasedness... :rolleyes:
Michael
Post by: bbarnes on March 31, 2009, 08:09:46 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on March 31, 2009, 08:14:28 PM
Reply to insdewdfw comment to prove my statement on the wdfw looking to buy a 3 or 4 million dollar boat, you might ask suzan yeager she takes the minutes of all commission meetings.These statements were made at the ellsburg meeting on march 6 by the interm director phil anderson.Thanks B Barnes.
That doesn't prove a thing.
Post by: whacker1 on March 31, 2009, 08:59:56 PM
I have never been a huge fan of WDFW, but I do appreciate InsideWDFW insight into what is going on internally. Whether you agree or disagree - it is a person that is reading, participating, and giving feedback. Hate to see anyone kill the messenger.
Post by: bbarnes on March 31, 2009, 09:07:44 PM
Post by: Skyhigh on March 31, 2009, 09:48:52 PM
The proof is in the meeting minutes and the point was, if we are laying off employees why are we thinking about expensive toys.Its like saying i need a new pair of shoes but i don't need a 300 dollar pair of Nike's.
Just speculation here..........maybe this boat money is from some kind of grant, that has stipulations on the spending of it...maybe some of those stipulations are it be spent on equipment and not salaries....
Post by: InsideWDFW on March 31, 2009, 10:43:29 PM
Post by: gottatree on April 03, 2009, 04:01:26 PM
Post by: bbarnes on April 03, 2009, 07:35:35 PM
Post by: Coldeadhands on April 04, 2009, 01:14:48 AM
I'm torn here.....what do we stand to lose?
I would support the wdfw if we would have a voice but up to this point I haven't seen it.
Creating a lottery system for hunters hasn't done the game or hunters justice at all. Elk are dying of starvation in the st. Helen's area due to lack of management, why? to create a lottery system based on revenue vs. management.
Buckrub, we have everything to lose. I have to wonder if you have ever gone to a meeting and testified. Whether you belong to HHC or not, you have a lobbyist trying to include your voice with his, but he does not support your activites. He has sold you out and sportfishermen by dividing you, without your input. It appears there will be some type of lottery game to help finance the Department.
How can hunting survive with very little opportunity for youth?
Has the well paid commission (100+k yr.) really done the job?
Where the hell did you get that info. They are paid about 100 dollars for each meeting plus travel expenses. It amounts to less than 10K per commissioner per year. As far as the youth goes, you cant make everyone hunt or fish. You have competition from golfing and other sports.
We could have the best hunting in the west but lottery style management compounded with habitat expenditures trying to sustain overpopulated pet areas for the dept. is destroying our net worth. I think most hunters would pay for good management.
We have 6 commissioners now that have hunting experience and have the degrees in a variety of areas to back up, their expertise. These people were appointed by at least one governor. We dont have a full commission because noone is demanding it from our legislators. That is three people who cannot contribute to the Commission or the Dept.
If they gut the commission, the department will not hire and pay professionals to do the leg work.
How much do we have to pay to have a voice?
How many letters, emails and meetings do we have to commit to?
I will pay for common sense management creating opportunity for all hunters especially the youth!
If you want quality hunting for all go to five/ six / seven point or better elk...whatever. manage the herd with hunting days not permits.
Why do we have three point restriction on mule deer? (good mangement)
Why is west side elk different than east side?
NO BS about more cover for eastside...OK, less cover less hunting days with mandatory reporting and GOOD escapement figures to manage properly.
Quality for all not just the lucky few who 10 friggin years of not drawing a permit then having a 35% success rate...what a joke.
OK..my rant :bash: is over...how many emails and where do you want them to go?
Post by: Coldeadhands on April 04, 2009, 01:44:41 AM
the wdfw SUCKS what do they do for us. Not a damn thing :bash: if you wanna see management look at the odfw :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: the wdfw needs to be schooled by the odfw.
You appear to be speaking about hunting. The Oregon Commission is lock stock and barrel, paid for by the commercial fishermen. One of the Commissioner owns a business that supplies Commercial fishermen. If thats the rule of thumb, lets appoint Gary Loomis (He wont) and other folks from Joes, Sportsmens Warehouse and a couple boat builders. At least our commissioners are focusing on preserving the resource rather than harvesting all of it as soon as possilbe. If the depts dont use the science, it doesnt matter who is running it.
Post by: billythekidrock on April 04, 2009, 06:14:21 AM
the wdfw SUCKS what do they do for us. Not a damn thing :bash: if you wanna see management look at the odfw :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: the wdfw needs to be schooled by the odfw.
If you read the Oregon boards you will see that the hunters there don't like their system much either. They want ODFW to be modeled after other states.
Post by: bbarnes on April 04, 2009, 07:56:40 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 04, 2009, 09:33:11 AM
Might be a good place to make some cuts.