Hunting Washington Forum
Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Biggerhammer on June 22, 2018, 11:08:04 PM
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:tup:
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Tag
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how fast is fast?
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how fast is fast?
I’m going with ~3100
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I'm thinking 3400 but backed off to 3300
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Looks like you got some work to do
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They run well up to around 3500. Thats as hard as I have pushed them
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Are you going to call it the L.E. for lands eater....with a bullet going that fast (necked down) have you ever tried a 2 or 3 degree angle on the throat to see if it would last longer?
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They run well up to around 3500. Thats as hard as I have pushed them
How was your accuracy as compared to let’s say the 195 EOL? I have not shot the Hammer 177’s yet, word has it they are very forgiving when it comes to seating depth.
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Accuracy was great up to 3400 in the 8 twist with them. Fell off after that. The 8.5 would run a little faster but the bc dropped way off. Even at close range it tanked way below their estimate. The 195 was a little better accuracy at the higher speeds although. Still playing with the hammer and tweaking things a little.
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Good to know. I went with a Schneider P5, 8 twist with this one.
I’ll take a guess. You were using H1000?
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N570, rl33, and rl26 in the 3 test catridges
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N570, rl33, and rl26 in the 3 test catridges
And those three test cartridges were?????????
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I'll guess a case capacity in the 115-120gr range?
Accuracy was great up to 3400 in the 8 twist with them. Fell off after that. The 8.5 would run a little faster but the bc dropped way off. Even at close range it tanked way below their estimate. The 195 was a little better accuracy at the higher speeds although. Still playing with the hammer and tweaking things a little.
Did you talk to Steve about them dropping off above 3400fps? I saw similar results with the 304gr 338 Hammer Hunter when I pushed to see how fast I could run them in the 338/408 improved. Up to about 3300 they shot great but beyond that things got ugly pretty fast. My theory was that the relatively soft alloy they're using was starting strip in the rifling when they got pushed that hard in a relatively fast twist. Then again, I saw the similar results with the 300gr OTMs in that gun. All the 300 class bullets shoot more accurately and behave better right around 3200fps anyways so that's where I leave it.
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Travis does quite a few 7mm Rem mags with a throat design that is similar to what I have in my 7mm Blaser Mag that Defensive Edge built for me with the +P throat so I'm hoping that was one of them that he tested. But N570 is some pretty bulky sh1t and I'm not sure there is enough case capacity to use that powder in a case with only 84gr water capacity.
Come on Travis, don't be shy, do tell which cartridges you tested these in.
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I have talked with Steve. Trying to get him to change the design slightly. Seeing the same thing with the 375 bullets also.
I do not do any +p (bore rider) style throats on any of my stuff. Cartridges have been 28 noslers and a couple of bigger wildcats I am working on.
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I do not do any +p (bore rider) style throats on any of my stuff. Cartridges have been 28 noslers and a couple of bigger wildcats I am working on.
Sorry about that Travis, I thought you had your own version of something similar-ish to Shawn's +P throat design. Thank you for getting me straightened out on that.
Hmmm, "couple of bigger wildcats I am working on" could one of those possibly be something off of the 300 Norma parent case by chance?
With Lapua now making 300 Norma brass and Peterson also making 300 Norma brass, both of which are top quality, that case has become very popular to wildcat off of. :tup:
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These Hammer 177’s are looooong!
162gr Hornady ELD-M (Top)
177gr Hammer Hunter (Bottom)
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They remind me of the 168gr .277s and the 307gr and 304gr 338s I have. They're like a javelin sticking out of the case. :chuckle:
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Looking forward to smacking a couple Muley’s This fall with them.
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The 177gr .284 “Hammer Hunter” is one long bullet.
177gr Hammer Hunter (Left)
185gr Nosler RDF (Center)
162gr Hornady ELD-X (Right)
Nosler themselves have not yet listed a BC for the 185gr .284 RDF.
Their 6.5 and 6mm RDF’s have been increadably accurate in several of my rifles. Especially the 6mm Creedmoor.
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Those Nosler RDF bullets look pretty slick but do you think they'd be very good at anything other than banging steel or busting rocks?
They're kind of like the new SMK's and almost look like a FMJ and I'd be concerned they'd just pencil straight through an animal with little to no expansion.
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I know a .260 AI with a 140gr RDF crushes antelope.
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After looking the 185gr RDF over we are going to give it a try in a 10 twist .280 AI.
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After looking the 185gr RDF over we are going to give it a try in a 10 twist .280 AI.
Any Idea on he BC for the 185 RDF?
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After looking the 185gr RDF over we are going to give it a try in a 10 twist .280 AI.
Any Idea on he BC for the 185 RDF?
Nosler hasn’t released a BC yet. But some people shooting them have thrown some numbers out there on several shooting forums.
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I know a .260 AI with a 140gr RDF crushes antelope.
That sounds promising, good to hear they performed well.
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Why 10 instead of 1:9?
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Why 10 instead of 1:9?
The rifle is already built. just going to see if they will shoot.
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Why 10 instead of 1:9?
The rifle is already built. just going to see if they will shoot.
👍🏻
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Interwebs say that it wont work and your bullets will keyhole :chuckle:
I wouldn't be too surprised if they shoot really well. It would be interesting to shoot them out of a 10 twist and an 8 twist and see how the BC changes with a different twist.
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Interwebs say that it wont work and your bullets will keyhole :chuckle:
I wouldn't be too surprised if they shoot really well. It would be interesting to shoot them out of a 10 twist and an 8 twist and see how the BC changes with a different twist.
I've come to the conclusion that under stabilized bullets can shoot well, but terminal performance suffers dramatically. That's when I start seeing the "banana bullets" when I recover them. Instead of expanding on impact they start to tumble.
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I like to go inch faster than needed. Least 1.7sg. Just my preference. The 338/375 is 2.6sg
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I had already ordered in the 177gr Hammer Hunters but the more I thought about it. I do prefer speed when it comes to a hunting load so I ordered in some 155gr Hammer Hunters. I will give them both a try but for my deer hunting I imagine I will go with the 155gr. Where I hunt my average shots over the years have been between 300-400 yards. A handful at 500-600 yards and of course several point blank shots, jumping bucks out of their beds.
155g (Left)
177gr (Right)
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155gr (Top)
177gr (Bottom)
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I’m still waiting on my rifle. Several technical difficulties at the smiths. Faulty Rem700 floor plate catch and a broken adjustment screw on a Timney trigger. I should be ready to start shooting next week.
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What do you think, around 3300fps with the 155?
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I honestly think. With the improved shoulder design of the reamer. The Schnieder R5 8 twist, 28" barrel and the fact that Hammer Bullets due to their design and bearing surface are a little faster than many other bullets. I feel I should easily surpass 3300. By how much, I don't know?
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Should be a great deer slayer
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From top to bottom.
Hammer Bullets 155gr Hammer Hunter
Hammer Bullets 177gr Hammer Hunter
Hornady 185gr RDF
Hornady 162gr ELD-X
Nosler “Old school” 150gr Ballistic Tip, solid base. WICKED bullet!
Sierra 160gr BT Spitzer Game King
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I just picked the rifle up.
Remington 700
7.21 SAGE (7mm-.300 Win Mag Improved).
Schneider R5, 28”, 1-8 twist, 3-1/2 contour barrel
4 port side discharge muzzle brake
B&C Alaskan, TI Mountain Rifle stock
Bolt handle reinforcement screw
Wyatt’s extended Mag box
PTG BDL Bottom Metal
Talley light weight rings
Leupold VX-5HD 3-15 CDS ZL2
I still need to send the bolt off to Kampfeld Custom and have a “Hunter” bolt knob installed. Along with TI fluting and a mini M16 extractor.
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Looking forward to seeing you chrono that thing :tup:
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I like it!!! But then again, I pretty much like anything built on a Remmy 700. :tup:
Is this going to be about the equivalent of a 7STW or 7-300Wby???
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I like it!!! But then again, I pretty much like anything built on a Remmy 700. :tup:
Is this going to be about the equivalent of a 7STW or 7-300Wby???
Should be just shy of a 7mm Ultra Magnum by 50 FPS or so . Depends on how fast the barrel is.
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I like it!!! But then again, I pretty much like anything built on a Remmy 700. :tup:
Is this going to be about the equivalent of a 7STW or 7-300Wby???
Should be just shy of a 7mm Ultra Magnum by 50 FPS or so . Depends on how fast the barrel is.
I'm guessing case capacity will be in the high 90's grains of water range on this and I see the use of some slowwwww powders in your future.
Sounds like fun project and I'm curious to hear how those bullets work out for you. I have enough twist to shoot those in my 7mm Blaser Mag, but I won't be able to launch them as fast as you will.
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I love the fact that you had to add a screw to hold your bolt handle on. Go Remington! :chuckle:
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I love the fact that you had to add a screw to hold your bolt handle on. Go Remington! :chuckle:
I learned a long time ago with Remington actions, when it comes to wildcat load development. I may have to knock that bolt open. A $40.00 buck bolt handle screw is way less hassle and time down than breaking off a bolt handle.
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That is a great hunting setup
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I actually did two reamers for this. A version with a 35 degree shoulder and a 40 degree shoulder. I used the 35 degree shoulder reamer first so if I chose to go with the 40 degree shoulder I could just clean up the existing shoulder. The standard straight neck down version of the 7mm-300 has been around for a long time. Then there is the 7mm-Practical wich is basically a straight 7mm-300 with a few accuracy tweaks. I tried to get as much case capacity as I could by moving the shoulder forward and improving it, along with doing away with as much case tapper as possible. Once I get my cases fireformed and run full house loads. The 7.21 Sage will out run the straight 7mm-300 and the 7mm Practical. Just more of a good thing because the practical is a great cartridge.
I have been kicking around the idea of a “Bore Rider” throat.
Bellow is a link to a great read and partial basis for my chamber design. Some really cool videos of terminal performance at distance with the 180gr ELD-M. Terminal Ballistics speeds are conservative the guys at Long Range Hunting are getting quite a bit more velocity from a straight .300 Win Mag case necked down to 7mm.
Terminal Ballistics
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html
Long Range Hunting thread 7/300 Win Mag
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/anyone-own-a-7mm-300-win-mag.51404/
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Had to hunt down the Magnetto Speed. Off to fireform some cases.
One of the rare accusations I have to shoot all day!
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160gr Nosler Accubond.
Worked up from 72.5gr of H1000 to 76gr H1000. I still have room to go higher in charge. 76gr was just the max powder charge I loaded to today.
76gr H1000 160gr Nosler Accubond.
3264 FPS SD-3.6
Not too shabby considering I’m fireforming. I’ll have more case capacity the next go round.
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Hornady 162gr ELD-X
Worked up to 77gr H1000. 3294fps slightly sticky bolt lift. I’ll try the same charge in a formed case, which has more capacity and work up in .2 grain increments.
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Are you thinking you'll need to use slower powders like RL33 or N570 when you switch over to shooting the heavies or are you committed to staying with H1000?
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RL-33👍
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I love the fact that you had to add a screw to hold your bolt handle on. Go Remington! :chuckle:
I learned a long time ago with Remington actions, when it comes to wildcat load development. I may have to knock that bolt open. A $40.00 buck bolt handle screw is way less hassle and time down than breaking off a bolt handle.
That's why I love the Savage system, I can put a new bolt handle on there without removing the bolt. It really helps when you break it off while trying to remove a case that's welded to the chamber. :tup:
That came up when loading what turned out to be a bad batch of Accubonds in a 6.5x284. The starting charge weight of H4831 locked up the action so tight we snapped off the bolt handle trying to open it up back at the house.
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I love the fact that you had to add a screw to hold your bolt handle on. Go Remington! :chuckle:
I learned a long time ago with Remington actions, when it comes to wildcat load development. I may have to knock that bolt open. A $40.00 buck bolt handle screw is way less hassle and time down than breaking off a bolt handle.
That's why I love the Savage system, I can put a new bolt handle on there without removing the bolt. It really helps when you break it off while trying to remove a case that's welded to the chamber. :tup:
That came up when loading what turned out to be a bad batch of Accubonds in a 6.5x284. The starting charge weight of H4831 locked up the action so tight we snapped off the bolt handle trying to open it up back at the house.
:yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike:
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One good reason to go barrel nut
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First three shot group at 300 yards. Fire forming cases.
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Fire formed case 77.1gr H1000 @ 300 yards. 3325 FPS.
Shooting under half MOA. That’s faster than the max load In the Nosler book for a 160gr/28 Nosler (8th Edition) of course Nosler was running’s 26” bbl.
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Bet she tightens up a bit too.
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Bet she tightens up a bit too.
It should. I have 74 rounds on the barrel and it’s getting a little faster.
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Aren't you bored with this yet? You need to hurry up and get a 375 BME up and running.....
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Aren't you bored with this yet? You need to hurry up and get a 375 BME up and running.....
When I was shooting it today. I was already thinking about what barrel and chambering I’m going to put on it next.
7.21 Sage (Left)
7mm Remington Magnum case (Right)
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Aren't you bored with this yet? You need to hurry up and get a 375 BME up and running.....
I figured he'd have a .950jdj by now
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Last three shot group at 300 yards today. That’s my zero for this years hunting season.
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That vertical spread sure shrank nicely. Have you stretched the legs at all?
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That vertical spread sure shrank nicely. Have you stretched the legs at all?
Not yet. I’ll head up to a spot I break rocks at and confirm my drop chart sometime this week.
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I am running the exact same load in my 7stw 162eldx and 76g h1000. My pipe is only 26 then a miller brake on it. I am getting 3150 with that load and been very accurate.
I have shot dz plus critters with the 143g eldx 6.5stw @ 3200/3250fps. Been very happy with the results from deer/elk/aoudad etc
From 80-450 yards been doing very well.
Some of the bigger critters have gone a few yards but performance is there.
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Changed to a different Lot of H1000. The last lot was getting me 3256 FPS with 76gr of H1000. The new Lot is faster. Today same charge of 76gr H-1000 behind a 162gr ELD-X 3306 FPS.
This is a fire forming load.
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How does that compare to the 28 Nosler?
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How does that compare to the 28 Nosler?
Gotta be real close to it.
I’ve seen regular 7-300s get pretty close.
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How does that compare to the 28 Nosler?
Max for the 28 Nosler with a 160gr bullet in the Nosler book and on their web site is 3293 FPS. Now we know that is being conservative and handloading and non factory throated chambers can get more velocity. Also consider the fact I’m shooting a 28” barrel. Take all into consideration, not too shabby from a .300 Win Mag case.
My fire forming load is 3306 FPS. I have pushed it to 3325 FPS so far with .3 moa at 300 yards.
Once I get all my cases fire formed. I will anneal them, trim them and start raising the powder charge in fire formed cases and see where I end up. I want to throw RL-33 in the mix also.
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I'll be surprised if RL33 or N570 doesn't yield you close to an extra 75-100 fps over H1000.
Have you by chance measured the volume of a formed case yet? Just a guess but I'm thinking you're going to be somewhere around 92gr of water.
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I'll be surprised if RL33 or N570 doesn't yield you close to an extra 75-100 fps over H1000.
Have you by chance measured the volume of a formed case yet? Just a guess but I'm thinking you're going to be somewhere around 92gr of water.
Just measured the case for water capacity. 93.5gr.
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Started working up powder charges with the Hornady 180gr ELD-M today. I was shooting at 300 yards, the rifle hovered at the 1/2 moa Mark for for all six groups. I shot H1000, 215M @ 71, 71.5, 72, 72.5, 73, 73.5, 74.
74gr of H1000 behind a 180gr ELD-M got me 3183 fps. I’ll start at 74.5gr tomorrow and work up in 1/2hr increments until I see pressure sighs and see where I end up velocity wise.
I also started working up a load for the Nosler 185gr RDF.
The 185gr RDF has less bearing surface than the 180gr ELD-M. Both bullets with the same powder charge, the 185gr RDF is 30fps faster than the 180gr ELD-M.
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The 7.21 Sage dirt napped it’s first victim this morning. Shot the first legal buck I saw. 180gr ELD-M @ 3183 FPS. The shot was 409 yards. Dime size entrance, recovered the bullet just under the hide on the off side. The hit flat crushed him. Bang-Flop. Recovered bullet weight 68.1gr😊. Flat juiced him inside.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2FIMG_8781_zpskzfa3kzz.jpg&hash=2c6eb00532cb5d0c002ea2a93496f2cdcda2e375) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8781_zpskzfa3kzz.jpg.html)
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Nice work bud. I did the same this morning with the 243 & 115gr VLD at 675 yards.
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So it drew blood, that means it's on to the next gun right? You can't kill something with the same gun twice, that's just dumb. Bring out the 416 Ruger! :tup:
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Boy, that thing really shoots. Nice buck, BH!
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These 180 Hornady ELD-M’s are NASTY on game.
Deer tend to agree!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F38BD7A5E-EE8C-433B-AD0F-3B7F171B0E65_zpsbipbxs5c.jpg&hash=63ddb49b9f884e693746b9e4fb0f1e7ef5b8c1a0) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/38BD7A5E-EE8C-433B-AD0F-3B7F171B0E65_zpsbipbxs5c.jpg.html)
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These 180 Hornady ELD-M’s are NASTY on game.
Deer tend to agree!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F38BD7A5E-EE8C-433B-AD0F-3B7F171B0E65_zpsbipbxs5c.jpg&hash=63ddb49b9f884e693746b9e4fb0f1e7ef5b8c1a0) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/38BD7A5E-EE8C-433B-AD0F-3B7F171B0E65_zpsbipbxs5c.jpg.html)
That may be the best picture I’ve seen all year! :chuckle:
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I drew a second deer antlerless tag for unit 266 (Badger). I was going to switch up bullets in the 7.21 Sage. But those 180 Hornady ELD-M’s. Were accurate, fast and flat. Decided to try for a little distance. After looking over a bunch of does. I caught a group of does adjacent to a stubble field I was on, they were feeding on a field across a canyon from me.
Ranged the one I wanted at 847 yards. Since my rifle was zeroed at 300 yards, I only had to put 12 moa on my VX5-HD ZL2 turret. No wind to speak of. Bang-Flop! That bullet did just as much damage at 847 as it did on my buck at 409.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F72E061D2-4062-4F74-A8DB-11CE37577699_zps3iuzluiq.jpg&hash=115af5919490046a4dfe2b4683b67d3db8bfd0f4) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/landonmoses/media/Mobile%20Uploads/72E061D2-4062-4F74-A8DB-11CE37577699_zps3iuzluiq.jpg.html)
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Now that you got the eld-m out of your system ya need to run that hammer in a deadblow version.....youl like it....never seen damage like it
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Now that you got the eld-m out of your system ya need to run that hammer in a deadblow version.....youl like it....never seen damage like it
I need to have my freebore extended. When I had the reamer done awhile back I had it set up for the 180 Berger’s with .188 freebore. The Hammer bullets are long for weight. I have 155’s and 177’s. Also the ogive is considerably forward on the Hammers as compared to the ELD-M’s. I didn’t have time to have the freebore extended before the season. As soon as the season is over, I will get it reworked and give the Hammers a try. As of now I just have to seat the Hammers too deep.
My current 7.21 Sage chambering has a 35 degree shoulder. I will also be chambering up a barrel soon with my 7.21 Sage Spec II, chambering which has a 40 degree shoulder which is blown forward with a slightly shorter neck.
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Nice shooting!
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Took the 7.21 Sage to the range this morning. I’ve been using Winchester brass (W-W Super). Decided to see how much the Hornady .300 Win Mag Brass could take. Fired a quick 3 shot group with my hunting load at 300 yards. Slight left to right breeze didn’t care or hold for it. I’m going to have the rifle rebedded. That 3rd is ALWAYS out.
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I then attached the Magnetto Speed and started shooting the 162gr ELD-X’s In Hornady cases. Went over the top at 76gr of H1000. Had slightly sticky bolt lift at 76gr, serious ejector Mark on the case head. Ejected smoothly. Smoking fast!! @ 3377FPS ES- 16.1. I knew I was there already and needed to back off at least half a grain. But I just had to give the 76.5 a go! 😊
You can see the ejector swipe on the case head at 12 O’Clock. But that’s fast!
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76.5gr Hey any of you guys see where that primer went? :chuckle: :chuckle:
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