Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 03:45:12 PM
Thoughts?
Elk area 3911 and 3912 for example..........
Thoughts??
Post by: Bob33 on August 28, 2018, 03:51:40 PM
Post by: Timberstalker on August 28, 2018, 03:53:01 PM
Post by: jackmaster on August 28, 2018, 03:56:33 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 03:56:59 PM
Very little of the Colockum is in elk area 3911.
For the sake of conversation, and maybe I'm misunderstanding....but if you're hunting with a bow in the Colockum GMU for elk and there is a MH hunt going on in 3911, which contains at least part of the Colockum gmu, would you be required to wear orange outside of the boudnaries of the 3911 elk area? There are people hunting elk with modern firearms within the boundaries of that GMU one way or another.
Post by: vandeman17 on August 28, 2018, 03:58:45 PM
Very little of the Colockum is in elk area 3911.
For the sake of conversation, and maybe I'm misunderstanding....but if you're hunting with a bow in the Colockum GMU for elk and there is a MH hunt going on in 3911, which contains at least part of the Colockum gmu, would you be required to wear orange outside of the boudnaries of the 3911 elk area? There are people hunting elk with modern firearms within the boundaries of that GMU one way or another.
I read it as a different "season" even though in the same unit so different blaze orange requirements
Post by: grundy53 on August 28, 2018, 04:02:12 PM
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Post by: Bob33 on August 28, 2018, 04:03:13 PM
I'm confident it's not interpreted that way. If you are hunting in an area that is physically outside of 3911, you would not be required to wear orange unless there is a modern season open in that particular area. If you're slinking around in camo while in 3911 during a Master Hunter season, you would.Very little of the Colockum is in elk area 3911.
For the sake of conversation, and maybe I'm misunderstanding....but if you're hunting with a bow in the Colockum GMU for elk and there is a MH hunt going on in 3911, which contains at least part of the Colockum gmu, would you be required to wear orange outside of the boudnaries of the 3911 elk area? There are people hunting elk with modern firearms within the boundaries of that GMU one way or another.
Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 04:06:22 PM
I've seen this conversation on Facebook. I guess someone contacted WDFW and they are working on a work around. Because I guess the way it's written now they interpret the same as you Jackelope.
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That's where this came from.
At first I called BS on it, but I've been dwelling on it.
Post by: grundy53 on August 28, 2018, 04:12:03 PM
I'm not worried about it. Even if it were the case, I doubt enforcement officers would site anyone for not wearing orange during bow or muzzleloader season.I've seen this conversation on Facebook. I guess someone contacted WDFW and they are working on a work around. Because I guess the way it's written now they interpret the same as you Jackelope.
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That's where this came from.
At first I called BS on it, but I've been dwelling on it.
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Post by: andersonjk4 on August 28, 2018, 04:13:19 PM
Post by: Bob33 on August 28, 2018, 04:22:34 PM
The last 3 bullets of the Hunter orange section "Hunter Orange is NOT Required" reads as an exception to all of the sections before it. So if you are hunting in a Muzzleloading or Archery only season with said tag you do not need to wear orange even if there might be other seasons going on.If you are hunting inside the 3911 boundaries during the time a Master Hunter season is open, you need to wear orange or you will likely be cited.
Here's the full WAC:
WAC 220-414-080
Hunting—Hunter orange clothing requirements.
(1) Except as authorized in subsection (6) of this section, it is unlawful to hunt upland birds or rabbits during any upland game bird season unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(2) It is unlawful to hunt deer or elk during all modern firearm general seasons in any manner unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(3) All modern firearm permit holders must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(4) All master hunters must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing during all deer and elk hunting seasons that allow the use of modern firearms, except as authorized by department permit.
(5) It is unlawful to hunt bear, cougar, bobcat, raccoon, fox, coyote, rabbit, forest grouse, turkey or hare during those times and in those places open to the taking of deer or elk during a modern firearm season, unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(6) Persons who are hunting upland game birds during an upland game bird season with a muzzleloading firearm, bow and arrow or falconry are not required to wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(7) Wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing means: A minimum of 400 square inches of fluorescent hunter orange exterior clothing, worn above the waist and visible from all sides.
Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 04:24:16 PM
:bumpin:
Not even a minute had gone by from my previous post and you were bumping it?
Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 04:26:18 PM
The last 3 bullets of the Hunter orange section "Hunter Orange is NOT Required" reads as an exception to all of the sections before it. So if you are hunting in a Muzzleloading or Archery only season with said tag you do not need to wear orange even if there might be other seasons going on.If you are hunting inside the 3911 boundaries during the time a Master Hunter season is open, you need to wear orange or you will likely be cited.
Here's the full WAC:
WAC 220-414-080
Hunting—Hunter orange clothing requirements.
(1) Except as authorized in subsection (6) of this section, it is unlawful to hunt upland birds or rabbits during any upland game bird season unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(2) It is unlawful to hunt deer or elk during all modern firearm general seasons in any manner unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(3) All modern firearm permit holders must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(4) All master hunters must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing during all deer and elk hunting seasons that allow the use of modern firearms, except as authorized by department permit.
(5) It is unlawful to hunt bear, cougar, bobcat, raccoon, fox, coyote, rabbit, forest grouse, turkey or hare during those times and in those places open to the taking of deer or elk during a modern firearm season, unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(6) Persons who are hunting upland game birds during an upland game bird season with a muzzleloading firearm, bow and arrow or falconry are not required to wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(7) Wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing means: A minimum of 400 square inches of fluorescent hunter orange exterior clothing, worn above the waist and visible from all sides.
So you think it's ok to hunt in parts of the Colockum in camo without blaze orange as long as you're outside the 3911 boundaries during an MH season is what you're saying, right?
Post by: vandeman17 on August 28, 2018, 04:29:42 PM
The last 3 bullets of the Hunter orange section "Hunter Orange is NOT Required" reads as an exception to all of the sections before it. So if you are hunting in a Muzzleloading or Archery only season with said tag you do not need to wear orange even if there might be other seasons going on.If you are hunting inside the 3911 boundaries during the time a Master Hunter season is open, you need to wear orange or you will likely be cited.
Here's the full WAC:
WAC 220-414-080
Hunting—Hunter orange clothing requirements.
(1) Except as authorized in subsection (6) of this section, it is unlawful to hunt upland birds or rabbits during any upland game bird season unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(2) It is unlawful to hunt deer or elk during all modern firearm general seasons in any manner unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(3) All modern firearm permit holders must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(4) All master hunters must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing during all deer and elk hunting seasons that allow the use of modern firearms, except as authorized by department permit.
(5) It is unlawful to hunt bear, cougar, bobcat, raccoon, fox, coyote, rabbit, forest grouse, turkey or hare during those times and in those places open to the taking of deer or elk during a modern firearm season, unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(6) Persons who are hunting upland game birds during an upland game bird season with a muzzleloading firearm, bow and arrow or falconry are not required to wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(7) Wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing means: A minimum of 400 square inches of fluorescent hunter orange exterior clothing, worn above the waist and visible from all sides.
So you think it's ok to hunt in parts of the Colockum in camo without blaze orange as long as you're outside the 3911 boundaries during an MH season is what you're saying, right?
This is what I was saying too
Post by: andersonjk4 on August 28, 2018, 04:44:43 PM
The last 3 bullets of the Hunter orange section "Hunter Orange is NOT Required" reads as an exception to all of the sections before it. So if you are hunting in a Muzzleloading or Archery only season with said tag you do not need to wear orange even if there might be other seasons going on.If you are hunting inside the 3911 boundaries during the time a Master Hunter season is open, you need to wear orange or you will likely be cited.
Here's the full WAC:
WAC 220-414-080
Hunting—Hunter orange clothing requirements.
(1) Except as authorized in subsection (6) of this section, it is unlawful to hunt upland birds or rabbits during any upland game bird season unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(2) It is unlawful to hunt deer or elk during all modern firearm general seasons in any manner unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(3) All modern firearm permit holders must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(4) All master hunters must wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing during all deer and elk hunting seasons that allow the use of modern firearms, except as authorized by department permit.
(5) It is unlawful to hunt bear, cougar, bobcat, raccoon, fox, coyote, rabbit, forest grouse, turkey or hare during those times and in those places open to the taking of deer or elk during a modern firearm season, unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(6) Persons who are hunting upland game birds during an upland game bird season with a muzzleloading firearm, bow and arrow or falconry are not required to wear fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
(7) Wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing means: A minimum of 400 square inches of fluorescent hunter orange exterior clothing, worn above the waist and visible from all sides.
I think you are right Bob33. I didn't realize the example Master Hunter hunt in 3911 Jackelope was using is actually listed in the general modern firearm elk seasons. I was thinking it was a special permit hunt.
As for whether the whole GMU or just the hunt area would require orange, I would say just the area open to modern firearm hunting would require orange. Not the whole unit.
From the Hunter Orange section from the margin next to Modern Elk seasons: "is required for anyone hunting in an area open to modern firearm deer or elk general seasons"
Post by: 10mmg on August 28, 2018, 04:45:00 PM
All opinions are subject to change as more information becomes available. That’s my way of saying I don’t know it all.
Post by: 81husky on August 28, 2018, 04:46:54 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 04:51:33 PM
i didnt have anything to post but wanted to check back.Isnt that what the bump is for?If not what would you like me to put in to be able to come back to it without searching.Doesn't everyone do that from time to time? YES.:bumpin:
Not even a minute had gone by from my previous post and you were bumping it?
Bump is for bringing the thread back to the top so folks see it.
I think what people normally use if they want to be able to check back is "tagging" or "following" or something along those lines... although anything would work. You could also utilize the bookmark function in the tabs above near the top of your page.
Post by: Oh Mah on August 28, 2018, 04:52:13 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 04:54:30 PM
Interesting. I read the word “general” in the regs to mean the open season for the otc tags not the special draw permits or other than general seasons. Given that both deer and elk have “general” seasons that is the connection when reading the hunter orange requirements. If they meant it to cover special tags or mh season they would not have stipulated the “general” season in the regs. I think they are trying to protect the masses during open season.
All opinions are subject to change as more information becomes available. That’s my way of saying I don’t know it all.
The MH seasons in elk areas 3911 and 3912 are OTC "general seasons." No special permit required other than you being a Master Hunter.
Post by: jackelope on August 28, 2018, 05:16:45 PM
Post by: 724wd on August 30, 2018, 01:44:53 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on August 30, 2018, 03:19:16 PM
Dear Mr. McDonald,
Thank you for contacting the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.
Yes, you are correct. Hunter orange is required for turkey when it overlaps with a modern firearm season. Since the Master Hunter season started July 1 for Regions 4, 5, and 6, and started August 1 for Regions 1, 2, and 3, and runs through March 31 for all regions, hunter orange is required to hunt bear, bighorn sheep, bobcat, cougar, coyote, deer, elk, fox, grouse, hare, moose, mountain goat, rabbit, raccoon, and turkey during those dates.
Sincerely,
Wildlife Program Customer Service
(360) 902-2515
I shot this up to my regional director of the NWTF, some you may know, who was a LE for WDFW and he shot a email up to the top to clarifiy and fix if needed. Response back to him was that a emergency addendum will be coming out soon. Hope it happens soon fall turkey starts opening day of archery deer.
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Post by: Bob33 on August 30, 2018, 03:29:36 PM
It is interpreted by WDFW that you must wear bkaze orange during any season that falls under general eifle including Master Hunter. The facebook discussion started with me aaking WDFW that exact question about clarification of blaze orange during turkey season. The response was thisThe hunter orange WAC was amended this year.
Dear Mr. McDonald,
Thank you for contacting the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.
Yes, you are correct. Hunter orange is required for turkey when it overlaps with a modern firearm season. Since the Master Hunter season started July 1 for Regions 4, 5, and 6, and started August 1 for Regions 1, 2, and 3, and runs through March 31 for all regions, hunter orange is required to hunt bear, bighorn sheep, bobcat, cougar, coyote, deer, elk, fox, grouse, hare, moose, mountain goat, rabbit, raccoon, and turkey during those dates.
Sincerely,
Wildlife Program Customer Service
(360) 902-2515
I shot this up to my regional director of the NWTF, some you may know, who was a LE for WDFW and he shot a email up to the top to clarifiy and fix if needed. Response back to him was that a emergency addendum will be coming out soon. Hope it happens soon fall turkey starts opening day of archery deer.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/law/wsr/2018/11/18-11-061.htm
"WAC 220-414-080 Hunting—Hunter orange clothing requirements, this proposal adds turkey to the hunter orange rule and requires turkey hunters that are hunting during a modern deer or elk firearm season to wear fluorescent orange.
The WAC now reads:
(5) It is unlawful to hunt bear, cougar, bobcat, raccoon, fox, coyote, rabbit, forest grouse, turkey or hare during those times and in those places open to the taking of deer or elk during a modern firearm season, unless the hunter is wearing fluorescent hunter orange clothing.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-414-080
Post by: Oh Mah on August 30, 2018, 04:10:06 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on August 30, 2018, 04:14:48 PM
Why the change?Did we have a higher than normal accident year?Bull to just change rules without reason this is why so many(not just hunters)are so tired of the over reach in this state. :twocents:My guess is they opened up turkey in an area with modern firearms or opened up an area to modern firearm hunting last year or this year and needed to change the rule.
I know that in master hunter elk areas open to modern firearms you have to wear hunter orange archery hunting elk or deer if you are in the overlap area. It is a safety thing.
Post by: Oh Mah on August 30, 2018, 04:42:38 PM
Post by: Russ McDonald on August 30, 2018, 05:43:05 PM
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Post by: Rainier10 on August 30, 2018, 09:39:34 PM
did you have to wear blaze orange in these 2 elk areas last year?During M/H Hunting season?uh... yes, for the past three seasons that I can recall and maybe four.
Post by: Rainier10 on August 30, 2018, 09:43:35 PM
I guess I should say in the 3911 I did. I didn’t hunt the 3912. I have a cabin and 500 acres in the 3911 area and another 1,000 that borders it so I am pretty familiar with that area. So yes hunter orange was required in the 3911 from basically August 1st until December 15th no matter what you were hunting.did you have to wear blaze orange in these 2 elk areas last year?During M/H Hunting season?uh... yes, for the past three seasons that I can recall and maybe four.
Post by: Oh Mah on August 30, 2018, 10:01:15 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on August 30, 2018, 10:02:16 PM
Maybe I’m missing what you mean by M/H season. I was assuming you meant during the master hunter season Aug 1- Dec 15th. That season was closed during modern fire arm elk.No offense sir but i said wear orange during M/H season unless i'm wrong you never had to wear orange until now during any season except general deer and elk modern firearm.if i'm wrong please correct that.I guess I should say in the 3911 I did. I didn’t hunt the 3912. I have a cabin and 500 acres in the 3911 area and another 1,000 that borders it so I am pretty familiar with that area. So yes hunter orange was required in the 3911 from basically August 1st until December 15th no matter what you were hunting.did you have to wear blaze orange in these 2 elk areas last year?During M/H Hunting season?uh... yes, for the past three seasons that I can recall and maybe four.
Post by: Rainier10 on August 30, 2018, 10:04:43 PM
I found a 2017 reg book,i see that i was wrong it is in last years. :tup::tup:
I will say that I wasn’t a master hunter the first year it was in the books. The way I read the rule then was you had to wear it if you were a MH in that area. I ran into a MH when I was archery hunting and he informed me it applied to me as well. Oops.
Post by: Oh Mah on August 30, 2018, 10:09:00 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on August 30, 2018, 10:17:17 PM
Post by: grundy53 on August 31, 2018, 07:07:38 AM
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Post by: Bob33 on August 31, 2018, 08:15:22 AM
Personally I find this rule idiotic. You can hunt bears without blaze orange UNLESS there is a M/H season? Every other non master hunter unit its safe to hunt deer and elk with orange during bear season. I bet there are a lot more bear hunters than master hunters. Plus master hunters are held to a higher standard. I feel safer about them making sure of their target.You can hunt bears without blaze orange UNLESS there is a M/H season in those places open to the taking of deer or elk during a modern firearm season.
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Are they very many places to hunt bears that are affected by this? I would think this relates to elk areas 3911 and 3912 primarily.
Post by: jackelope on August 31, 2018, 08:55:39 AM
Might have missed something.
Post by: jackelope on August 31, 2018, 08:58:09 AM
How do we determine what designated areas are open to make sure we are legal in our blaze orange requirements?
Post by: Bob33 on August 31, 2018, 09:01:37 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on August 31, 2018, 09:07:31 AM
I wouldn't consider permit hunts as applicable to this WAC; only general seasons.:yeah:
I actually drew one of these permits this year. My buddy had one last year and never got called. He lost all his points. This year they changed that rule also and if you don't get called you get your points back. If I get called I will see if I am required to wear hunter orange on this hunt. My guess is only if I am inside of the 3911 or 3912 areas. I would also assume odds are very high that if I get a call I will be inside of one of these two areas.
Post by: jackelope on August 31, 2018, 09:10:34 AM
I wouldn't consider permit hunts as applicable to this WAC; only general seasons.:yeah:
I actually drew one of these permits this year. My buddy had one last year and never got called. He lost all his points. This year they changed that rule also and if you don't get called you get your points back. If I get called I will see if I am required to wear hunter orange on this hunt. My guess is only if I am inside of the 3911 or 3912 areas. I would also assume odds are very high that if I get a call I will be inside of one of these two areas.
If it's a modern firearm legal hunt, I would assume you'd be required to wear orange.
:dunno:
Post by: Rainier10 on August 31, 2018, 09:41:03 AM
I would think so but being escorted by a hunt coordinator I am just not sure how it all works. I have seen guys doing this type of hunt before with a hunt coordinator, I just can't remember if they were in orange or not. I want to say they were because they were in the 3911 area but at that point the two elk were down and tagged.I wouldn't consider permit hunts as applicable to this WAC; only general seasons.:yeah:
I actually drew one of these permits this year. My buddy had one last year and never got called. He lost all his points. This year they changed that rule also and if you don't get called you get your points back. If I get called I will see if I am required to wear hunter orange on this hunt. My guess is only if I am inside of the 3911 or 3912 areas. I would also assume odds are very high that if I get a call I will be inside of one of these two areas.
If it's a modern firearm legal hunt, I would assume you'd be required to wear orange.
:dunno:
I hope I get called just to see what all the rules end up being.
Post by: grundy53 on August 31, 2018, 10:41:05 AM
My point was that they trust us, any joe blow with a bear tag enough to hunt bears without blaze orange. But they don't trust master hunters who are supposed to be more trustworthy. Doesn't make sense.Personally I find this rule idiotic. You can hunt bears without blaze orange UNLESS there is a M/H season? Every other non master hunter unit its safe to hunt deer and elk with orange during bear season. I bet there are a lot more bear hunters than master hunters. Plus master hunters are held to a higher standard. I feel safer about them making sure of their target.You can hunt bears without blaze orange UNLESS there is a M/H season in those places open to the taking of deer or elk during a modern firearm season.
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Are they very many places to hunt bears that are affected by this? I would think this relates to elk areas 3911 and 3912 primarily.
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Post by: Oh Mah on September 01, 2018, 07:28:48 PM
Post by: SCRUBS on November 02, 2019, 08:42:32 AM
TIA.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on November 02, 2019, 09:17:11 AM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on November 02, 2019, 09:18:05 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 02, 2019, 09:21:43 AM
how many Master Hunters in this state?
About 2K
Post by: SCRUBS on November 02, 2019, 09:42:43 AM
Yes tjats correct you need orange
Thank you for the clarification, much appreciated.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 18, 2019, 03:51:37 PM
Post by: Bob33 on November 18, 2019, 04:14:59 PM
Post by: Stein on November 18, 2019, 04:32:01 PM