Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: Special T on September 12, 2018, 10:53:05 AM
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Last night Kyle the Waterfowl section manager supplied an amazing Statistic at the NW chapter Washington Waterfowl Association meeting. Roughly 45k people purchased the State migratory bird stamp/endorsement, and yet less than 25k hunters reported their results via the HIP survey taken when you purchase the following years license. You know the one they ask how many geese, ducks, snipe coots, band tailed pigeon and doves you harvested the previous year...
https://www.fws.gov/birds/surveys-and-data/harvest-surveys/harvest-information-program.php
The question is why? Why report that you didn't hunt? The Huge 20k hunter number means there are at least of couple of big reasons why people choose to inaccurately report. I would like to think of this as a brain storming session to help guide better decision making. Throw out the reasons your friend or cousin reports he didnt hunt when he actually did. ;)
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Last night Kyle the Waterfowl section manager supplied an amazing Statistic at the NW chapter Washington Waterfowl Association meeting. Roughly 45k people purchased the State migratory bird stamp/endorsement, and yet less than 25k hunters reported their results via the HIP survey taken when you purchase the following years license. You know the one they ask how many geese, ducks, snipe coots, band tailed pigeon and doves you harvested the previous year...
https://www.fws.gov/birds/surveys-and-data/harvest-surveys/harvest-information-program.php
The question is why? Why report that you didn't hunt? The Huge 20k hunter number means there are at least of couple of big reasons why people choose to inaccurately report. I would like to think of this as a brain storming session to help guide better decision making. Throw out the reasons your friend or cousin reports he didnt hunt when he actually did. ;)
I think it boils down to trust.
Many think if they report accurately WDFW or USFW will manage seasons differently, most likely negatively?
Consider the pintail limits. Many were mad when we were forced to only shoot one, when the fact that they are extremely prolific in the Pacific Flyway was ignored in favor of lesser numbers elsewhere, in other flyways.
Why are we still having to purchase and log snow goose cards? They extended the season on them, they are growing in numbers, expanding their territory, yet we have to log each one we shoot and send in results.
Many people do not trust any government agency. Can we blame them?
Maybe people are just lazy?
Maybe a lot of guys don't shoot that many birds and feel inadequate to their instagram counterparts?
Guys falsify daily reports at Refuges all the time. They don't want others to know how good blind A shot.
For the record- I fill them out. Not sure why. How do they even record the information? I report all of my tags each year- yet they somehow always say I didn't report at least one and charge me $10. Maybe 20k reports got lost, like my sons turkey tag report, every single year...
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I buy licenses (some full season, some 3 day) in four different states and I always report to the best of my recollection my harvest in that state the previous year. The main excuse I can think of for others that don't report is that they might mistakenly believe that under-reporting will lead the state to believe less birds were taken and that they will continue to set higher limits as a result?
Also maybe that someone doesn't want the state to know that maybe they have 100 ducks in their freezer at home when the limit might be 2 days possession? Sounds screwy until you think that last year the fish cops in California descended on Lambertville, CA (a concentration of about 40 duck shacks) and wrote many, many tickets for possession over the limit.
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I would say the #1 reason is probably the same as for big game and fish - there is a fear that the more you report, the less opportunity there will be.
For fish and crab, the online reporting tool can be cumbersome, you have to report each day, each catch, each marine area and it can take a ton of effort if you get out there frequently.
For waterfowl, I don't know as it is easy, I don't keep tallies but take an educated guess as to the number of days and birds killed.
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Also maybe that someone doesn't want the state to know that maybe they have 100 ducks in their freezer at home when the limit might be 2 days possession? Sounds screwy until you think that last year the fish cops in California descended on Lambertville, CA (a concentration of about 40 duck shacks) and wrote many, many tickets for possession over the limit.
If they are in the freezer, they do not count as part of your possession limit.
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Also maybe that someone doesn't want the state to know that maybe they have 100 ducks in their freezer at home when the limit might be 2 days possession? Sounds screwy until you think that last year the fish cops in California descended on Lambertville, CA (a concentration of about 40 duck shacks) and wrote many, many tickets for possession over the limit.
If they are in the freezer, they do not count as part of your possession limit.
99% sure that is false by the rule of the law but I have never heard it enforced. Sorry for the sidetrack to original intent of the thread
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Also maybe that someone doesn't want the state to know that maybe they have 100 ducks in their freezer at home when the limit might be 2 days possession? Sounds screwy until you think that last year the fish cops in California descended on Lambertville, CA (a concentration of about 40 duck shacks) and wrote many, many tickets for possession over the limit.
If they are in the freezer, they do not count as part of your possession limit.
Maybe not in WA State but in other states they do.
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I think it boils down to fear of having data used against you. Many people fear that by reporting accurately how many birds they killed they will in turn get the data used against them and shorten seasons or bag limits. Take salmon seasons and marine areas for instance. People that report to fish checkers that they caught "x" amount of juvenile kings in a day while out fishing have that data turned around and used against them. WDFW applies a mortality rate to a percentage of those juvenile fish caught and considers them "encounters" which in turn burns up the quota and gets the season shut down. Now their is a large following of people that don't report any other fish caught then what was legal and for good reason. Just my :twocents:
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I believe there are a lot of honest ethical people that have an aversion to telling the government anything.
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And time crunch. If you're in line buying a license at customer service at a big-box sporting goods store and six other people are in line behind you to return merchandise or pick up an order, you might feel pressure to just say "did not hunt" and get out of there rather than trying to remember how many honkers you killed last season.
My dad always cites the lack of trust of game departments for why he doesn't report.
I trust them. I report. Generation gap!
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I always report, but this time the store didn't even ask me :dunno:
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I believe there are a lot of honest ethical people that have an aversion to telling the government anything.
Totally agree; I always report honestly, but I'm not the Big Killer of #'s as in my past.
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I bought migratory bird last year and didn’t hunt.
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:yeah:
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I bought a WA license last year, is the only way to report this at the time of the next year's purchase? And is it a requirement? Honestly, I didn't give any thought to it until this thread came up. I'll be buying a WA license again, just curious if some of the non-reports come from folks that don't hunt the next year.
In OR the questionnaire is pretty basic. 0, 1-10, or 10+ for ducks, geese, and dove. Nothing more specific.
I believe there are a lot of honest ethical people that have an aversion to telling the government anything.
:yeah: I'm in the same boat. But I have to hope that they're using these management tool. What else do they have to go off of? It's funny - sportsman complain that bios aren't listening to them when they tell them how many predators they're seeing, but then we don't want to tell them how many animals we're harvesting.
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To me its kind of like talking to the fish checkers at the launches. All encounters with salmon are considered as if you caught and killed the fish even though it got off or you released it. Those "encounters" go against the quota. I hear guides tell them they didn't loose any nor did they releaese any. Everything that bit was a keeper.
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Also maybe that someone doesn't want the state to know that maybe they have 100 ducks in their freezer at home when the limit might be 2 days possession? Sounds screwy until you think that last year the fish cops in California descended on Lambertville, CA (a concentration of about 40 duck shacks) and wrote many, many tickets for possession over the limit.
If they are in the freezer, they do not count as part of your possession limit.
99% sure that is false by the rule of the law but I have never heard it enforced. Sorry for the sidetrack to original intent of the thread
SALMON
Possession limit - 2 daily limits in fresh form. An additional 40 pounds of SALMON may be possessed
in frozen or processed form (see pages 10-11).
From page 15. I thought it was unlimited, but 40 pounds is quite a few more than two. We take freezers and vacuum packers to fish camp and have had more than one chat with an officer who didn't bat an eye. For our family of four, we could have 160 pounds which is far more than we would ever have on hand.
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Most years I buy the waterfowl endorsement I don't end up hunting migratory birds.
Fudging on the reporting can have the opposite effect. Assume a population has a 20% drop from preseason estimates to postseason. If only half of the harvest is reported, then that drop is attributed to half the actual harvest, resulting in a lower estimated population and more restrictions in future years.
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Here is Idaho's rules on possession limit in a home freezer, from the reg book. Possession limit is 3X the legal daily bag limit.
• No person shall possess more than one daily limit on the
opening day of the season. See pages 8-13.
• No person shall possess more than the possession limit even
when such birds are stored at home or are being processed at
a commercial preservation facility.
I think (but I am not certain) that I can gift a possession limit to each member of my household. In my case, my wife and could have six possession limits in the freezer. That's only 24 dark geese and 42 ducks.
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I will be honest, when it comes to my fish report, I mark them on my catch card and that’s it, my report is that I didn’t fish, why ? Because the damn nets get more fish than I could ever catch, I go a few times a year and get what I will ONLY eat , nets don’t care what they kill yet our game department caters to the commercial guys and the natives!! And piss on us !!
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Also maybe that someone doesn't want the state to know that maybe they have 100 ducks in their freezer at home when the limit might be 2 days possession? Sounds screwy until you think that last year the fish cops in California descended on Lambertville, CA (a concentration of about 40 duck shacks) and wrote many, many tickets for possession over the limit.
If they are in the freezer, they do not count as part of your possession limit.
There is still a huge debate about that.
USFW doesn't consider a duck, not a duck, until it has been eaten or taxidermied. That is their opinion, not any law.
Some states count them.
In WA, the daily limit role, ends at your car.
The rule says, between place taken and your automobile, or place of abode.
But it is still being debated.
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They list a number of things in the question , I mark / answer "did not hunt" on geese and doves and anything other than ducks which I list accurately. I take a goose if it is a volunteer to my duck hunt but don't hunt them specifically, doves I don't bother with in this state.
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They list a number of things in the question , I mark / answer "did not hunt" on geese and doves and anything other than ducks which I list accurately. I take a goose if it is a volunteer to my duck hunt but don't hunt them specifically, doves I don't bother with in this state.
I think this is part of the issue / concern. What I am out on a deer hunt. I am also out for a bear hunt and cougar hunt even though it is not my original intent. So long as I'm hunting with the appropriate tag and there is an Open Season I am out for whatever I can legally obtain. Won't many of you shoot a grouse went out deer hunting?
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Also maybe that someone doesn't want the state to know that maybe they have 100 ducks in their freezer at home when the limit might be 2 days possession? Sounds screwy until you think that last year the fish cops in California descended on Lambertville, CA (a concentration of about 40 duck shacks) and wrote many, many tickets for possession over the limit.
If they are in the freezer, they do not count as part of your possession limit.
There is still a huge debate about that.
USFW doesn't consider a duck, not a duck, until it has been eaten or taxidermied. That is their opinion, not any law.
Some states count them.
In WA, the daily limit role, ends at your car.
The rule says, between place taken and your automobile, or place of abode.
But it is still being debated.
USFW doesn't have jurisdiction to draft or revise WA law. There can be debate about what it should be, but there is no debate about what the current law is in WA.
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USFW has governance over the migratory waterfowl act.
State laws are in compliance with that act.
All the waterfowl regulations come from the migratory act and the North American migratory treaty.