Post by: KFhunter on October 05, 2018, 10:46:27 AM
Looks like a good article from the first skim, I'll read it in more detail later
Post by: mfswallace on October 05, 2018, 11:47:45 AM
Post by: bracer40 on October 05, 2018, 12:19:36 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 05, 2018, 03:36:29 PM
" In Washington State, shooting a wolf, even to protect your livelihood, comes with a one-year prison sentence and a five-thousand dollar fine." FALSE. in fact one of them shot a profanity peak wolf a couple weeks ago....
The State of Washington Refuses to Help
Despite this, the legislature in Olympia is reluctant to assist the ranchers" FALSE. The ranching family in the article has refused reimbursement despite there being a program in place
Post by: mfswallace on October 05, 2018, 03:38:25 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 05, 2018, 07:05:38 PM
Quote
The ranching family in the article has refused reimbursement despite there being a program in place
because it's a complete freaking joke!
I don't need to explain this to you, but for others reading this in order to be "compensated" WDFW has to first determine the cause of death on a cow, and you've got a very small window of time to find that carcass, get feet dragging WDFW to the scene, and get a confirmation = very unlikely.
Also, the cost of a dead calf or cow isn't the most expensive part of having wolves in your cattle.
WDFW compensation doesn't cover
lost cows
lost carcasses
old carcasses
unbred cows
dead bulls
lost bulls
underweight cows
grazing areas not utilized due to presence of wolves
One rancher had his bull driven clear out of the range and was never found, that's a lot of unbred cows! WDFW doesn't pay for that.
WAcoyotehunter knows this, it just doesn't fit the anti-grazing, wilderness agenda.
Post by: ribka on October 05, 2018, 08:18:12 PM
Maybe put the cows on soccer fields and golf courses in urban areas near seattle then.
Post by: dreamunelk on October 05, 2018, 08:26:59 PM
QuoteThe ranching family in the article has refused reimbursement despite there being a program in place
because it's a complete freaking joke!
I don't need to explain this to you, but for others reading this in order to be "compensated" WDFW has to first determine the cause of death on a cow, and you've got a very small window of time to find that carcass, get feet dragging WDFW to the scene, and get a confirmation = very unlikely.
Also, the cost of a dead calf or cow isn't the most expensive part of having wolves in your cattle.
WDFW compensation doesn't cover
lost cows
lost carcasses
old carcasses
unbred cows
dead bulls
lost bulls
underweight cows
grazing areas not utilized due to presence of wolves
One rancher had his bull driven clear out of the range and was never found, that's a lot of unbred cows! WDFW doesn't pay for that.
WAcoyotehunter knows this, it just doesn't fit the anti-grazing, wilderness agenda.
Funny, apparently no cows ever died before wolfs came back. So all the bones I have seen over the years were not cows? Seen many bulls wander away also.
Post by: KFhunter on October 05, 2018, 09:06:17 PM
Are you really trying to argue that ranchers can't tell the difference before and after wolves?
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 06, 2018, 09:16:31 AM
Despite this being an obviously slanted radical right wing rag, the writer doesn't know what he's talking about. The situation there does suck for the wolves and for the ranchers, but the author of this article has several things wrong. I doubt it matters in this publication though....
" In Washington State, shooting a wolf, even to protect your livelihood, comes with a one-year prison sentence and a five-thousand dollar fine." FALSE. in fact one of them shot a profanity peak wolf a couple weeks ago....
The State of Washington Refuses to Help
Despite this, the legislature in Olympia is reluctant to assist the ranchers" FALSE. The ranching family in the article has refused reimbursement despite there being a program in place
I agree that there are several points in the article which are inaccurate. However, the overall message is spot on. It's been estimated that only 1 out of 7-8 wolf kills are confirmed and the rancher compensated, because of the lack of a carcass, scavenger effect, and other factors which impede positive identification. There also is no compensation for projected losses due to low birth and growth rates attributed to highly stressed animals. The ranchers in the NE have been abandoned by our state government from the beginning of this outrageous wolf plan, which, by the way, is 50% more aggressive than Montana's or Idaho's. Montana has 1/16 the population density of WA. Yet the government signed the plan to allow almost impossible-to-reach goals for management to commence. And the NE corner is so far the most affected section.
And, we haven't even discussed the effect on our wild ungulates and the diseases that these wolves have carried since day one of release. The USFWS lied to Congress about making sure these animals were parasite-free. They lied about economic and environmental impact. They lied about reproductive rates. They lied about the danger to humans. And they commenced a public disinformation campaign meant to appeal to ignorant liberal city dwellers to drown out the objections of those who would be most adversely affected by the intrusion of these pests.
I would prefer this article be more accurate. But it's a much more realistic look at a topic which has been whitewashed by almost all of the mainstream media.
Post by: wolfbait on October 07, 2018, 10:08:09 AM
Rogue Pack kills guard dog
http://mailtribune.com/news/top-stories/rogue-pack-kills-guard-dog
Beef Bits Brief: Wolf depredation confirmed in CA
https://www.wlj.net/top_headlines/beef-bits-brief-wolf-depredation-confirmed-in-ca/article_96fff478-bdf9-11e8-8737-535900c86954.html
Post by: mfswallace on October 12, 2018, 06:32:26 AM
Wolves are the plague the corrupt USFWS and agencies like WDFW unleashed on rural America, promoting wolf predation of livestock, the decimation of wildlife, attacks on people and the spread of diseases wolves carry.
Rogue Pack kills guard dog
http://mailtribune.com/news/top-stories/rogue-pack-kills-guard-dog
Beef Bits Brief: Wolf depredation confirmed in CA
https://www.wlj.net/top_headlines/beef-bits-brief-wolf-depredation-confirmed-in-ca/article_96fff478-bdf9-11e8-8737-535900c86954.html
Don't forget loss of grazing allotments. 100+ yrs of grazing rights and now state won't renew ranchers 2,500 acres due to wolves in area that has seen significant conflicts over last 5 years. Easier to not renew than deal with killer wolves.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 12, 2018, 07:54:43 AM
Wolves are the plague the corrupt USFWS and agencies like WDFW unleashed on rural America, promoting wolf predation of livestock, the decimation of wildlife, attacks on people and the spread of diseases wolves carry.
Rogue Pack kills guard dog
http://mailtribune.com/news/top-stories/rogue-pack-kills-guard-dog
Beef Bits Brief: Wolf depredation confirmed in CA
https://www.wlj.net/top_headlines/beef-bits-brief-wolf-depredation-confirmed-in-ca/article_96fff478-bdf9-11e8-8737-535900c86954.html
Don't forget loss of grazing allotments. 100+ yrs of grazing rights and now state won't renew ranchers 2,500 acres due to wolves in area that has seen significant conflicts over last 5 years. Easier to not renew than deal with killer wolves.
Aren't the grazing allotments on Federal land? The state doesn't control grazing allotments on Federal land. That's either the BLM, NFS, USDA, Interior, etc.
Post by: mfswallace on October 12, 2018, 09:43:10 AM
No and yesWolves are the plague the corrupt USFWS and agencies like WDFW unleashed on rural America, promoting wolf predation of livestock, the decimation of wildlife, attacks on people and the spread of diseases wolves carry.
Rogue Pack kills guard dog
http://mailtribune.com/news/top-stories/rogue-pack-kills-guard-dog
Beef Bits Brief: Wolf depredation confirmed in CA
https://www.wlj.net/top_headlines/beef-bits-brief-wolf-depredation-confirmed-in-ca/article_96fff478-bdf9-11e8-8737-535900c86954.html
Don't forget loss of grazing allotments. 100+ yrs of grazing rights and now state won't renew ranchers 2,500 acres due to wolves in area that has seen significant conflicts over last 5 years. Easier to not renew than deal with killer wolves.
Aren't the grazing allotments on Federal land? The state doesn't control grazing allotments on Federal land. That's either the BLM, NFS, USDA, Interior, etc.
https://www.dnr.wa.gov/programs-and-services/product-sales-and-leasing/agriculture-and-grazing/grazing
https://www.fs.fed.us/rangeland-management/grazing/permits.shtml
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on October 12, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
where did that happen?Wolves are the plague the corrupt USFWS and agencies like WDFW unleashed on rural America, promoting wolf predation of livestock, the decimation of wildlife, attacks on people and the spread of diseases wolves carry.
Rogue Pack kills guard dog
http://mailtribune.com/news/top-stories/rogue-pack-kills-guard-dog
Beef Bits Brief: Wolf depredation confirmed in CA
https://www.wlj.net/top_headlines/beef-bits-brief-wolf-depredation-confirmed-in-ca/article_96fff478-bdf9-11e8-8737-535900c86954.html
Don't forget loss of grazing allotments. 100+ yrs of grazing rights and now state won't renew ranchers 2,500 acres due to wolves in area that has seen significant conflicts over last 5 years. Easier to not renew than deal with killer wolves.
Post by: wolfbait on October 12, 2018, 11:32:30 AM
With no wolf control, which is what we have today with the corrupt WDF$wolves running the show, how can ranchers stay in business? Look at the last pony show, the entire pack needs to go when they start killing livestock, WDFW know this, it has been proven many time over. Calling WDF$Wolves over wolf predation on livestock is like asking it to continue. The sad part is ranchers can't run from wolves, private lands are hit just as much if not more by wolf predation. Many ranchers have learned to stay quiet and take care of predation problems on their own, WDF$WOLVES :pee:
Post by: shallowforks on October 12, 2018, 11:42:29 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 12, 2018, 12:53:38 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 12, 2018, 01:45:08 PM
Doesnt seem like we are going to win anyone over or make any allies by saying the dep. is corrupt or using cute little names like wdfwolves. I agree that we need some policy change to ensure the protection of private ranchers’ livelihood and public wildlife. I think we make change by creating friendships and allies and showing the truth of what we see without villainizing and bad mouthing those who we find on the other side of the fence from us.
How involved have you been in this process since 2008? It doesn't sound like very. The ranchers got screwed by nice and respectful talk. The people of NE WA had a bill of goods shoved down their throats by those who'd never have to face the consequences of their actions. The pro wolves PR campaigns turned the population of the I-5 corridor against these hard-working people and their heritage, their livelihoods, their homes. The WDFW and the USFWS are both responsible for this debacle and they're culpable for what's happened to these folks...and they don't care. I'd say that they have ample reason to speak the way they do about this program and the people responsible for implementing it.
Post by: shallowforks on October 12, 2018, 01:54:57 PM
Post by: wolfbait on October 12, 2018, 04:13:49 PM
I agree its not fair. My family lives off raising cattle and have wolves around their summer pastures. Theyve been lucky so far but the neighbors havent. I agree that the wolf program as it was wasnt right for the ranchers of the west. I agree that people who dont live in the area shouldnt be driving the policies of said area. I agree we should be upset about it. I just do t agree with the delivery. I dont see how it helps the cause. Thats all
Too bad more people don't realize how corrupt WDFW are, maybe then we could get some Wolf/predator management. Probably not though with WDF$Wolves partnering up with the fake environmental groups.
Do you know very much about the illegale wolf introduction into ID, MT and Wyoming, or the corruption that went along with it? WDF$Wolves have actually been as bad and possible worse. Calling WDFW corrupt is being polite in my honest opinion, they are stealing from ranchers and hunters by giving us a BS wolf plan and then refusing to confirm known wolf packs/BPs so that WA can delist. They refuse to confirm predation on livestock unless forced to do so, and then they slow play control, they have been stealing from this rancher by not culling the entire pack when the predation first started.
http://www.capitalpress.com/Livestock/20181008/washington-wolfpack-attacks-again-in-kettle-river-range
You are naive if you think WDF$Wolves give two cents about these ranchers losing livestock to wolves or the ungulates etc. their actions have proven this time and again.
So WDF$Wolves fits them perfectly.
Post by: KFhunter on October 12, 2018, 04:28:48 PM
Diamond M were demonized by pro-wolf groups and frustrating to work with according to WDFW. Their cows got ate.
Other ranchers worked very closely with WDFW. Their cows got ate.
Other ranchers want nothing to do with WDFW, CNW or any other group. Their cows are being ate too.
There seems to be a common theme here :dunno:
Wolves don't care how well the ranchers, the public, WDFW or other NGO's all play together.
A live wolf = dead livestock.
Post by: shallowforks on October 12, 2018, 05:14:23 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 12, 2018, 05:36:13 PM
Post by: shallowforks on October 12, 2018, 07:30:53 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 12, 2018, 07:41:41 PM
I can't think of much they've handled well? Can you help me out and find some projects they've done a good job with?
Post by: HighlandLofts on October 12, 2018, 07:42:14 PM
If they will not take care of the problem I am sure there are people out there that will.one way or another.
Post by: wolfbait on October 14, 2018, 09:00:32 AM
I would never say theres NO corruption in WDFW. Theres bound to be a certain level of corruption in any organization whether it be government or private. Do I believe the entire dfw is corrupt, absolutely not. Maybe theres a higher level of corruption in the wolf sector, i could buy that. But to generalize that all of wfdw is corrupt just waters down the entire argument and weakens your voice. Have they fallen short when it cones to wolves YES. When it comes to taking action in some circumstances their hands are probably tied by the state legislature. The whole system is kinda messy so its hard for me to just slap the blame squarely on Wdfw. And playing the blame game doesnt really solve the current problem anyways
WDF&Wolves claimed the Lookout wolf pack was the first wolf pack in 70 years, but then there's this:
In Washington, Feds Opt For Wolf Introduction Over Recovery
http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/
Why is WDF&Wolves slow playing wolf control and delisting? According to WDFW wolves started "migrating" to WA in 2002. That's 16 years worth of wolves for WA.
Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming were eligible for delisting in less than 6 years.
What they Didn't Tell You About Wolf Recovery
http://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/George%20Dovel/The_Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf
Post by: kodiak10 on October 14, 2018, 09:25:27 AM
Post by: shallowforks on October 14, 2018, 09:33:50 AM
Good, because WDFW has a lot of water that needs carrying.
I can't think of much they've handled well? Can you help me out and find some projects they've done a good job with?
how about access? How many WDFW public access sites are there? I know I use one every time I launch my boat. How many acres of private land has WDFW been able to help open up for hunters? I see those yellow and green signs all over.
Post by: wolfbait on October 14, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
I spent a good part of last week cutting firewood on the N. and South summit, never saw one deer in all the country I drove through. I did talk to two different muzzleloader hunters, one said he saw one huge wolf and the other said he saw 8 possibly 9 wolves.
Access don't mean chit if there is no game in the country you are trying access. Probably nice for the bird watchers.
Maybe we should get into WDFW poisoning lakes that were once the best fishing around, now, Not so Much.
Some of the Fake environmental folks have infiltrated most of WDFW and we are seeing the results, management for non-consumption-no hunting in WA is the future goal.
Post by: Goshawk on October 14, 2018, 08:48:50 PM
The end goal had absolutely nothing to do with protecting bears and cats. The end goal was to have a wild predator base that was large enough to push out any biological argument to keep big game hunting as a legal tool for deer and elk population control. If enough top end natural predators were in the woods keeping deer and elk numbers in check, then they felt there would be a better chance to outlaw all big game hunting. After all in Seattle and the other left rag cities, who wants to see pictures of starving wolf pups?
We're getting closer to their end goal every year.
Post by: jackson7 on October 14, 2018, 10:33:23 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 15, 2018, 07:04:24 AM
Years ago, I'm assuming due to my volunteer work with a wildlife rehabber in Olympia, I found myself on an emailing list of some far left folks who were pushing for the hound hunting ban and trapping ban, and later the wolf project.Do you still have that e-mail I would be interested in reading it.
The end goal had absolutely nothing to do with protecting bears and cats. The end goal was to have a wild predator base that was large enough to push out any biological argument to keep big game hunting as a legal tool for deer and elk population control. If enough top end natural predators were in the woods keeping deer and elk numbers in check, then they felt there would be a better chance to outlaw all big game hunting. After all in Seattle and the other left rag cities, who wants to see pictures of starving wolf pups?
We're getting closer to their end goal every year.