Post by: bsharp on October 22, 2018, 08:25:35 PM
Thanks, Tim
Post by: boneaddict on October 22, 2018, 08:32:31 PM
Post by: grundy53 on October 23, 2018, 04:57:59 AM
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: hunterofelk on October 23, 2018, 08:26:37 AM
Post by: M_ray on October 23, 2018, 09:35:29 AM
Hairy poop
:yeah:
I just got back last night and I was in the conconnully area among several others and the story is the same all over, I think Bone has hit it on the head. I drove a over thousand miles in a week covering 5 different units, saw two ports of entry, drove a barbed wire fence separating me from Canada, three forest fires still burning, hiked into the Pasayten Wilderness and only saw 25-30 doe’s and about a dozen small bucks the whole trip and nothing worth shooting. I should have seen hundreds of deer instead saw hundreds of camps with no deer hanging. It is a very sad situation this state is in at the moment. There are a lot of factors from the political stance of not putting the fires out to poor management of the WDFW. I know no one wants to hear it but we really need to think about going to a draw only and one species limit or except that what we have now is the new normal. :dunno:
Post by: vandeman17 on October 23, 2018, 09:54:26 AM
Hairy poop
:yeah:
I just got back last night and I was in the conconnully area among several others and the story is the same all over, I think Bone has hit it on the head. I drove a over thousand miles in a week covering 5 different units, saw two ports of entry, drove a barbed wire fence separating me from Canada, three forest fires still burning, hiked into the Pasayten Wilderness and only saw 25-30 doe’s and about a dozen small bucks the whole trip and nothing worth shooting. I should have seen hundreds of deer instead saw hundreds of camps with no deer hanging. It is a very sad situation this state is in at the moment. There are a lot of factors from the political stance of not putting the fires out to poor management of the WDFW. I know no one wants to hear it but we really need to think about going to a draw only and one species limit or except that what we have now is the new normal. :dunno:
Personally, I am totally ok with going to some kind of draw or something until the herd rebounds. Every year I see less and less deer in the Wenatchee valley so I can only imagine what its like up that way.
Post by: Bearhunter on October 23, 2018, 10:07:05 AM
Post by: full choke on October 23, 2018, 10:15:54 AM
Hairy poop
:yeah:
I just got back last night and I was in the conconnully area among several others and the story is the same all over, I think Bone has hit it on the head. I drove a over thousand miles in a week covering 5 different units, saw two ports of entry, drove a barbed wire fence separating me from Canada, three forest fires still burning, hiked into the Pasayten Wilderness and only saw 25-30 doe’s and about a dozen small bucks the whole trip and nothing worth shooting. I should have seen hundreds of deer instead saw hundreds of camps with no deer hanging. It is a very sad situation this state is in at the moment. There are a lot of factors from the political stance of not putting the fires out to poor management of the WDFW. I know no one wants to hear it but we really need to think about going to a draw only and one species limit or except that what we have now is the new normal. :dunno:
Personally, I am totally ok with going to some kind of draw or something until the herd rebounds. Every year I see less and less deer in the Wenatchee valley so I can only imagine what its like up that way.
I agree with the drawing idea. Washington hunters just have to realize it is all or nothing. There would be no going back when the herd rebounds.... That is in no way how this state operates...
Post by: M_ray on October 23, 2018, 10:26:07 AM
Hairy poop
:yeah:
I just got back last night and I was in the conconnully area among several others and the story is the same all over, I think Bone has hit it on the head. I drove a over thousand miles in a week covering 5 different units, saw two ports of entry, drove a barbed wire fence separating me from Canada, three forest fires still burning, hiked into the Pasayten Wilderness and only saw 25-30 doe’s and about a dozen small bucks the whole trip and nothing worth shooting. I should have seen hundreds of deer instead saw hundreds of camps with no deer hanging. It is a very sad situation this state is in at the moment. There are a lot of factors from the political stance of not putting the fires out to poor management of the WDFW. I know no one wants to hear it but we really need to think about going to a draw only and one species limit or except that what we have now is the new normal. :dunno:
Personally, I am totally ok with going to some kind of draw or something until the herd rebounds. Every year I see less and less deer in the Wenatchee valley so I can only imagine what its like up that way.
I agree with the drawing idea. Washington hunters just have to realize it is all or nothing. There would be no going back when the herd rebounds.... That is in no way how this state operates...
Of coarse the draw is still only one part of this, yes there is still the fight against wolves and the new introduction of grizzly as well as the act that the cougar population isn’t dwindling any time soon. But the reality is if we keep doing the same thing as we are now I can promise you it is not working. We also get to put in for every category for permits which dilutes chances across the board. I’m in favor of a system which would increase my odds of a quality hunt every two to three years even if it means less opportunity for the lame general season we have now. Many out there will argue “I’M NOT GIVING UP MY HUNTS” as they are now, but all it is is hiking around with your gun looking at pretty country! :twocents:
Post by: vandeman17 on October 23, 2018, 10:49:12 AM
Hairy poop
:yeah:
I just got back last night and I was in the conconnully area among several others and the story is the same all over, I think Bone has hit it on the head. I drove a over thousand miles in a week covering 5 different units, saw two ports of entry, drove a barbed wire fence separating me from Canada, three forest fires still burning, hiked into the Pasayten Wilderness and only saw 25-30 doe’s and about a dozen small bucks the whole trip and nothing worth shooting. I should have seen hundreds of deer instead saw hundreds of camps with no deer hanging. It is a very sad situation this state is in at the moment. There are a lot of factors from the political stance of not putting the fires out to poor management of the WDFW. I know no one wants to hear it but we really need to think about going to a draw only and one species limit or except that what we have now is the new normal. :dunno:
Personally, I am totally ok with going to some kind of draw or something until the herd rebounds. Every year I see less and less deer in the Wenatchee valley so I can only imagine what its like up that way.
I agree with the drawing idea. Washington hunters just have to realize it is all or nothing. There would be no going back when the herd rebounds.... That is in no way how this state operates...
One can only hope but I agree that once they enact a rule, they RARELY take it away. Only one I can recall was the 4 point minimum in NE corner.
Post by: Tundra on October 23, 2018, 10:55:35 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on October 23, 2018, 11:42:23 AM
Hairy poop
:yeah:
I just got back last night and I was in the conconnully area among several others and the story is the same all over, I think Bone has hit it on the head. I drove a over thousand miles in a week covering 5 different units, saw two ports of entry, drove a barbed wire fence separating me from Canada, three forest fires still burning, hiked into the Pasayten Wilderness and only saw 25-30 doe’s and about a dozen small bucks the whole trip and nothing worth shooting. I should have seen hundreds of deer instead saw hundreds of camps with no deer hanging. It is a very sad situation this state is in at the moment. There are a lot of factors from the political stance of not putting the fires out to poor management of the WDFW. I know no one wants to hear it but we really need to think about going to a draw only and one species limit or except that what we have now is the new normal. :dunno:
Personally, I am totally ok with going to some kind of draw or something until the herd rebounds. Every year I see less and less deer in the Wenatchee valley so I can only imagine what its like up that way.
I agree with the drawing idea. Washington hunters just have to realize it is all or nothing. There would be no going back when the herd rebounds.... That is in no way how this state operates...
One can only hope but I agree that once they enact a rule, they RARELY take it away. Only one I can recall was the 4 point minimum in NE corner.
This would decrease their revenue. As it stands, they'd either have to jack up tag or license costs.
Post by: Ridgeratt on October 23, 2018, 12:03:40 PM
This would decrease their revenue. As it stands, they'd either have to jack up tag or license costs.
Aren't they mulling over a 15% increase.
Post by: lewy on October 23, 2018, 12:16:34 PM
Post by: coachcw on October 23, 2018, 12:24:45 PM
Post by: bigmacc on October 23, 2018, 12:39:43 PM
Post by: KopperBuck on October 23, 2018, 01:27:50 PM
This would decrease their revenue. As it stands, they'd either have to jack up tag or license costs.
Aren't they mulling over a 15% increase.
That's without cutting tags... ouch :o
Post by: M_ray on October 23, 2018, 01:39:49 PM
This would decrease their revenue. As it stands, they'd either have to jack up tag or license costs.
Aren't they mulling over a 15% increase.
That's without cutting tags... ouch :o
So if you pay 20-25$ now for $h!t odds in every category, you wouldn’t pay 20$ to draw a quality opportunity every 2-3 years? Cause as it stands right now you have a better chance of being put in a hole in the ground than you do of drawing a quality tag. Not to mention the herds are not able to sustain the pressure they currently have on them so if we don’t limit the pressure it’s only going to get worse.
Oregon :chuckle:
:tup:
Post by: KopperBuck on October 23, 2018, 01:57:34 PM
This would decrease their revenue. As it stands, they'd either have to jack up tag or license costs.
Aren't they mulling over a 15% increase.
That's without cutting tags... ouch :o
So if you pay 20-25$ now for $h!t odds in every category, you wouldn’t pay 20$ to draw a quality opportunity every 2-3 years? Cause as it stands right now you have a better chance of being put in a hole in the ground than you do of drawing a quality tag. Not to mention the herds are not able to sustain the pressure they currently have on them so if we don’t limit the pressure it’s only going to get worse.Oregon :chuckle:
:tup:
I think you got my idea twisted. I was pointing to the fact that some are saying be careful what you ask for, they'll never go back.
I don't think WDFW wants to go this route as it would reduce revenue. At this high level with tags for everyone, they're already asking for more money. How much more are they going to need if they go to draw only?
Everything they do is about $. You pointed it out, there's crap odds in a million categories that were created to drum up extra cash. It wasn't scientific, it was economic.
Post by: M_ray on October 23, 2018, 02:18:58 PM
Post by: bigmacc on October 23, 2018, 02:43:30 PM
This would decrease their revenue. As it stands, they'd either have to jack up tag or license costs.
Aren't they mulling over a 15% increase.
That's without cutting tags... ouch :o
So if you pay 20-25$ now for $h!t odds in every category, you wouldn’t pay 20$ to draw a quality opportunity every 2-3 years? Cause as it stands right now you have a better chance of being put in a hole in the ground than you do of drawing a quality tag. Not to mention the herds are not able to sustain the pressure they currently have on them so if we don’t limit the pressure it’s only going to get worse.Oregon :chuckle:
:tup:
I think you got my idea twisted. I was pointing to the fact that some are saying be careful what you ask for, they'll never go back.
I don't think WDFW wants to go this route as it would reduce revenue. At this high level with tags for everyone, they're already asking for more money. How much more are they going to need if they go to draw only?
Everything they do is about $. You pointed it out, there's crap odds in a million categories that were created to drum up extra cash. It wasn't scientific, it was economic.
Unfortunatly you are right Kopperbuck, with the WDFW it is all about the money and sadly most of the money that we as hunters spend each year doesn't go 100% to our "game herds" a lot of it goes to lizards, frogs, birds, whales and yes bears, cats and now days wolf and grizzly. I also agree something needs to be done, at the end of the day its really sad that we as hunters need to pay the price of increased costs, less opportunity, less quality and possible mule deer hunting every 2 or 3 years in this state because of poor management, lack of management and a department that hasn't had the best interest of deer and elk hunting as a top priority in years. Ive said it a million times and Ive said it for over 10 years, we need a separate "GAME DEPARTMENT" in this state that puts hunters and game animals as THE top priorities. The way this thing has worked out since the switchover has been a travesty for our deer and elk herds, the agency has too many other priorities and special interest groups to cater to that are ahead of our herds and if you don't believe that you didn't spend time chasing mule deer around the last 10 days or have been scouting them the last 6 months in some of our traditional top shelf muley areas. As some including myself have said this just didn't happen overnight, when we lost our "GAME DEPARTMENT" is when the it started and what we have now is the results of years of neglect, poor management and arrogance by a agency that no longer has our herds or hunters best interest as job 1, as for myself, I don't like to think that 1 cent of my money as a deer and elk hunter goes to anything to do with studying a wolf, grizzly, cougar, frog or lizard but that is just me and I don't frown on others that do purchase tags(like my granddaughters), I want to know that my deer and elk tag money goes right back into the herds and paying salaries to those that spend 100% of their work week watching over, taking care of and doing things that better the health of our deer, moose, antelope and elk herds. I have not purchased deer or elk tags in this state for 3 years now. I will step down off the box now, sorry for the rant, our family has 101 years of history in the Methow and it truly is a shame what has happened here, a real shame.
Post by: no.cen.wa on October 23, 2018, 04:58:13 PM
Well I have to say THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND,,, wildlife,,,, are doing an EXCELLENT job! The PREDATOR population is doing FANTASTIC!!! I was lucky, I saw a few deer, but you better have finger on the trigger and deer in crosshairs (and count 3 points) in less than 2 seconds or it's gone where I hunt. But, the Predators are doing great! Lots of Wolf, Cougar, Bear and yotes,, did get a yote anyway.
Just my :twocents:
Post by: bigmacc on October 23, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
I just spent 15 days scouting and hunting the Pasayten,Sinlahekekin and Chewuch, hit Pearrygin on a road trip (because of lack of deer) to talk to old hunting parties,,,, course they were already gone, no deer.
Well I have to say THE WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND,,, wildlife,,,, are doing an EXCELLENT job! The PREDATOR population is doing FANTASTIC!!! I was lucky, I saw a few deer, but you better have finger on the trigger and deer in crosshairs (and count 3 points) in less than 2 seconds or it's gone where I hunt. But, the Predators are doing great! Lots of Wolf, Cougar, Bear and yotes,, did get a yote anyway.
Just my :twocents:
Hey no.cen.wa long time no talk, I hear ya, I had a couple buddies hunting 224 also, they said it was the worst they have seen it there in the 61 years they have hunted it, very few deer hanging very few shots and way to much orange. They did hear of 3 bears killed around them in the unit, I guess one was a big cinnamon somewhere around 290lbs when put on the scale :dunno:. They said they had never seen so much bear sign.
Post by: M_ray on October 23, 2018, 07:54:29 PM
I think you got my idea twisted. I was pointing to the fact that some are saying be careful what you ask for, they'll never go back.
I don't think WDFW wants to go this route as it would reduce revenue. At this high level with tags for everyone, they're already asking for more money. How much more are they going to need if they go to draw only?
Everything they do is about $. You pointed it out, there's crap odds in a million categories that were created to drum up extra cash. It wasn't scientific, it was economic.
I hear ya but I’m not sure I really would want to go back??? I’d be perfectly happy with a better chance than we have now and a system like Idaho has now for the remainder if you ask me.
Post by: KopperBuck on October 24, 2018, 12:33:38 PM
I think you got my idea twisted. I was pointing to the fact that some are saying be careful what you ask for, they'll never go back.
I don't think WDFW wants to go this route as it would reduce revenue. At this high level with tags for everyone, they're already asking for more money. How much more are they going to need if they go to draw only?
Everything they do is about $. You pointed it out, there's crap odds in a million categories that were created to drum up extra cash. It wasn't scientific, it was economic.
I hear ya but I’m not sure I really would want to go back??? I’d be perfectly happy with a better chance than we have now and a system like Idaho has now for the remainder if you ask me.
I agree with you there. I'm in Oregon now and don't mind the draw. If I really wanted to hunt every year there are opportunities. But since we can't seem to effectively manage the predator impact, I think some sort of restriction management needs to be in place.
Post by: Birdguy on October 24, 2018, 06:41:33 PM
Going permit would get massive support IF we as the user group had a say in the management! I do not claim to know much about deer survival but, I do know the amount of predators in our state over the last 40 years has gone up and out of control! Coyotes, bears, cougars now wolves and grizzlies......all have a much larger impact on out herds than we are lead to believe by our WDFW. Habitat is certainly another topic but fires impact only certain areas. Last I checked not many fires east of the Kettle/Columbia rivers in the NE but deer numbers are still way down.
I could get behind permits but we have to have a measure of control as the folks footing the bill, cause whatever direction we go we will never be back to where we are :twocents:
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 24, 2018, 07:42:25 PM
There are a TON of things that should be done first...... Better predator management, more WDFW LEO's working as wildlife officers(to combat poaching) not general police, better management of tribal hunters/quantity harvested, more fencing in high roadkill areas, habitat improvement, do away with multi season(too much pressure on critters), better fire management, selective logging, less quality permits during rut times, etc...…..
These are all things that could fairly easily be done, and all would have a huge impact with helping the ungulates out, while still allowing every year hunting opportunity. :twocents:
Post by: bigmacc on October 24, 2018, 08:23:33 PM
I think it was huntnphool that had a couple different ideas that revolved around every other year scenarios for mule deer only seasons, I would like to see that tried possibly with some season adjustments thrown in for the hunter. Maybe because half the mule deer hunters will have the year off(still allowed to hunt blacktail, whitetail, elk, bear etc)the season could be extended to a 2 week season always ending on November 1st no matter what day of the week that falls on. I myself would be ok with that scenario, a 2week season that goes to Nov.1st I would be for discontinuing all quality tags in the Methow and Entiat. A possible hybrid scenario would be Mule deer hunting in the Methow and Entiat areas only that would fall under these rules leaving other Mule deer areas left as is with no changes from what it is now. This eliminates the draw only scenarios which means we are all at the mercy of the draw, it may be every 2 or 3 years or more :dunno:that you could hunt mulies. With the every other year your guaranteed to hunt mulies one year on one off. Maybe phool can come on and elaborate on his ideas.
Post by: grundy53 on October 24, 2018, 08:52:40 PM
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Post by: MtnMuley on October 24, 2018, 08:59:39 PM
I think if we go permit only for mule deer they should make it that if you put in for mule deer you can't hunt blacktails or whitetails. That way those sub species wouldn't get hammered. Also, I think it would reduce the pressure on blacktails from what it is now and maybe allow them to make a comeback.
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I've been saying this for years, but it was always met with resistance from the majority. It's sad that it takes conditions like nowadays to really seem to get people on board. Unfortunately for some, it might be the only way we can rebuild this herd in today's society with minimal predator management and increased introduction.
Post by: Bobvernon2 on October 24, 2018, 09:43:17 PM
Easiest option to prevent overharvest of other deer species is to go for East or West for deer just like elk. east side could have a Whitetail or mule deer choice not both. But damn I’ve been screaming for an East or West deer tag to bring attention to how much pressure certain areas get.I think if we go permit only for mule deer they should make it that if you put in for mule deer you can't hunt blacktails or whitetails. That way those sub species wouldn't get hammered. Also, I think it would reduce the pressure on blacktails from what it is now and maybe allow them to make a comeback.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I've been saying this for years, but it was always met with resistance from the majority. It's sad that it takes conditions like nowadays to really seem to get people on board. Unfortunately for some, it might be the only way we can rebuild this herd in today's society with minimal predator management and increased introduction.
Post by: grundy53 on October 24, 2018, 09:51:53 PM
I think this would mainly help the blacktail. I don't think it would help the mulies much. I think most deer hunters in this state would choose the east side tag if it was still over the counter.Easiest option to prevent overharvest of other deer species is to go for East or West for deer just like elk. east side could have a Whitetail or mule deer choice not both. But damn I’ve been screaming for an East or West deer tag to bring attention to how much pressure certain areas get.I think if we go permit only for mule deer they should make it that if you put in for mule deer you can't hunt blacktails or whitetails. That way those sub species wouldn't get hammered. Also, I think it would reduce the pressure on blacktails from what it is now and maybe allow them to make a comeback.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I've been saying this for years, but it was always met with resistance from the majority. It's sad that it takes conditions like nowadays to really seem to get people on board. Unfortunately for some, it might be the only way we can rebuild this herd in today's society with minimal predator management and increased introduction.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: bigmacc on October 25, 2018, 10:43:25 AM
I think this would mainly help the blacktail. I don't think it would help the mulies much. I think most deer hunters in this state would choose the east side tag if it was still over the counter.Easiest option to prevent overharvest of other deer species is to go for East or West for deer just like elk. east side could have a Whitetail or mule deer choice not both. But damn I’ve been screaming for an East or West deer tag to bring attention to how much pressure certain areas get.I think if we go permit only for mule deer they should make it that if you put in for mule deer you can't hunt blacktails or whitetails. That way those sub species wouldn't get hammered. Also, I think it would reduce the pressure on blacktails from what it is now and maybe allow them to make a comeback.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I've been saying this for years, but it was always met with resistance from the majority. It's sad that it takes conditions like nowadays to really seem to get people on board. Unfortunately for some, it might be the only way we can rebuild this herd in today's society with minimal predator management and increased introduction.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Well I wish phool would come on here, he had some great ideas. I agree the every other year mule deer hunting would put more pressure on blacktail and white tail, so what you do is the odd-even system,If your wild ID ends in an even number you are legal to buy a mule deer tag that year if you wish, if you don't buy a mule deer tag you can purchase a blacktail or whitetail tag still. If you purchase a mulie tag that year you are not allowed to hunt blacktail or whitetail. The next season wild ID,s ending in odd numbers are eligible to purchase mule deer tags if they wish, if they opt out they can still purchase a blacktail or whitetail tag, folks with even numbers that year can only purchase blacktail or whitetail tags. On paper it immediately cuts mule deer pressure in half every year, it will also cut down blacktail and whitetail pressure because there is no double dipping, if its your year to buy a mulie tag that year and you choose to do so and you don't kill a mulie, your done, you can't hunt blacktail or whitetail that year.You can only hunt mule deer every other year Period and on your off year you can hunt blacktail or white tail if you choose. I guess in a nutshell you are eligible to purchase a mulie tag every other year and overall you are only allowed to purchase one tag among the three deer species, its kind of like an east - west tag but you are actually buying a tag for one species , you pick, you either buy a blacktail tag, or a whitetail tag or you buy a mule deer tag on your odd/even year IF YOU CHOOSE, remember you can waive your mulie tag on your year if you don't hunt mule deer and still purchase one of the other two. I ran this hybrid idea past a retired game biologist about this and he actually loved it.
Post by: bobcat on October 25, 2018, 11:00:11 AM
Also, I should add, I'm not sure a 50% reduction in the number of mule deer hunters will help much. Let's say a particular GMU has 800 hunters now, and has a 10% success rate, which means 80 bucks taken. Now cut the number of hunters in half, and now the hunting is much better with the reduced competition, plus people are going to hunt harder since they can no longer hunt every year. Instead of a 10% success rate, you get a 20% rate for the 400 hunters. Half the hunters but still 80 bucks killed.
Post by: Mtnwalker on October 25, 2018, 11:37:43 AM
Post by: bigmacc on October 25, 2018, 11:53:50 AM
What if every person who took the time to complain on a forum directed that as an email complaint to WDFW instead? :dunno:
I have done my part many times in that regard, letters, sit downs with bios that were brought to our camp, partitions etc. etc. :tup:..I like what goes on here, a lot of good ideas get kicked around and good discussions on topics such as this, open and honest dialogue about subjects that directly effect our hunting happens here, unfortunately sometimes I,m afraid we are the only ones who listen to each other whether we agree or disagree at least we listen.
Post by: Mtnwalker on October 25, 2018, 12:04:17 PM
What if every person who took the time to complain on a forum directed that as an email complaint to WDFW instead? :dunno:
I have done my part many times in that regard, letters, sit downs with bios that were brought to our camp, partitions etc. etc. :tup:..I like what goes on here, a lot of good ideas get kicked around and good discussions on topics such as this, open and honest dialogue about subjects that directly effect our hunting happens here, unfortunately sometimes I,m afraid we are the only ones who listen to each other whether we agree or disagree at least we listen.
I'm glad to hear that and I hope everybody else who is frustrated with the current conditions are voicing their opinions as well, but I would be willing to bet that you are in the minority of hunters who actually take the time to reach out to the proper authorities. I know that if I look at all my buddies I grew up hunting with, every one of them complains about the low deer numbers but I don't think a single one of them has actually taken the time to write an email or letter. Not trying to criticize anybody on here, just can't help but think that if their (WDFW) inboxes were overflowing with complaints from unhappy sportsmen much like this forum and many others are, they MIGHT start to listen. Maybe not, but it definitely couldn't hurt.
Post by: bobcat on October 25, 2018, 01:01:11 PM
What if every person who took the time to complain on a forum directed that as an email complaint to WDFW instead? :dunno:
If they were to poll hunters, which they actually do often, the result will likely show the majority want no change in the way our deer are being managed. Most people want the over the counter deer tags, unlimited in number, and no restrictions on where or when you hunt. The state will go along with this mentality, as it brings in more revenue than any other management strategy that would limit the number of hunters in any way.
Post by: MtnMuley on October 25, 2018, 02:30:34 PM
What if every person who took the time to complain on a forum directed that as an email complaint to WDFW instead? :dunno:
If they were to poll hunters, which they actually do often, the result will likely show the majority want no change in the way our deer are being managed. Most people want the over the counter deer tags, unlimited in number, and no restrictions on where or when you hunt. The state will go along with this mentality, as it brings in more revenue than any other management strategy that would limit the number of hunters in any way.
Its very sad, but you're exactly right.
Post by: Wunderlich33 on October 25, 2018, 03:22:22 PM
The past couple of years have been terrible and theres no indication that things will be getting better anytime soon. The WDFW is a joke for our deer and elk population. The only way we will be heard is if we hit them in their pocket book. I believe if we can coordinate, work together as a team and band together we can be heard and things could change. IMO It would only take 1 year for us getting together and not buying tags and licenses. Now I know i'm gonna get some back lash from others who may think this is a ridiculous idea, but that back lash will be from the same folks that will continue to pay the WDFW each year and then come back on this forum and complain year after year with no changes being made. Let me ask you this: Would you continue to buy a product of any kind from a company that continually gets worse year after year? I wouldn't...
I'm personally willing to give a boycott a try. As of this year I haven't spent a single day in the field within Washington. The only time I plan to be out in the field within this state will be when I head over to help my hunting partner and best friend fill his moose tag he drew this year.
I dont know what the perfect answer is but I do know that if you want a future within this state for hunting we need to our part to change where things are headed
Post by: bigmacc on October 25, 2018, 03:34:17 PM
I havent posted much in the past but have been member for a few years. I have had the privilege to share camp fires with Skyvalhunter and Rainier10 throughout the years. I have had great success hunting this state and have helped many others fill their tags. I have more tree stands than I can count across this state and have grown up loving the areas where I have had my success.
The past couple of years have been terrible and theres no indication that things will be getting better anytime soon. The WDFW is a joke for our deer and elk population. The only way we will be heard is if we hit them in their pocket book. I believe if we can coordinate, work together as a team and band together we can be heard and things could change. IMO It would only take 1 year for us getting together and not buying tags and licenses. Now I know i'm gonna get some back lash from others who may think this is a ridiculous idea, but that back lash will be from the same folks that will continue to pay the WDFW each year and then come back on this forum and complain year after year with no changes being made. Let me ask you this: Would you continue to buy a product of any kind from a company that continually gets worse year after year? I wouldn't...
I'm personally willing to give a boycott a try. As of this year I haven't spent a single day in the field within Washington. The only time I plan to be out in the field within this state will be when I head over to help my hunting partner and best friend fill his moose tag he drew this year.
I dont know what the perfect answer is but I do know that if you want a future within this state for hunting we need to our part to change where things are headed
:tup: :yeah:....My "Not buying a deer tag" is on year 3 now.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 25, 2018, 04:53:15 PM
Post by: wildernessathlete on October 25, 2018, 06:55:55 PM
Post by: hunter399 on October 25, 2018, 07:29:31 PM
I can't believe some of our biologist that work for WDFW can stand there and tell me our wildlife is doing good in this state, what a joke.We pay these people to manage our animals.Makes me sick.
If I don't see some major changes soon .
Our family won't being buying tags in the future.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 25, 2018, 07:37:25 PM
Post by: stickslinger on October 26, 2018, 05:43:11 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 26, 2018, 09:01:32 AM
Not happy with deer numbers in WA so I’ll go hunt another state.
Another irony is seems that a lot of folks that have killed a lot of big bucks are the ones who are most adamant about saving the herds and calling for reduced opportunity.....hmmmm
If y’all continue to yearly take out the best breeders it’s not hard to see that is also part of the problem.
Have y’all forgot that hunting is more than killing a trophy buck every year?
It should be about family and friends enjoying the outdoors.......don’t need to kill a buck every year to do that.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 26, 2018, 09:11:38 AM
Post by: Mtnwalker on October 26, 2018, 09:41:18 AM
I see a lot of irony in this thread. Folks want more/ better deer......for what?, so we can go shoot them.
Not happy with deer numbers in WA so I’ll go hunt another state.
Another irony is seems that a lot of folks that have killed a lot of big bucks are the ones who are most adamant about saving the herds and calling for reduced opportunity.....hmmmm
If y’all continue to yearly take out the best breeders it’s not hard to see that is also part of the problem.
Have y’all forgot that hunting is more than killing a trophy buck every year?
It should be about family and friends enjoying the outdoors.......don’t need to kill a buck every year to do that.
If I wanted to go hang out with friends and not see any deer I can do that all summer, it’s called CAMPING.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 26, 2018, 09:51:36 AM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 26, 2018, 09:57:41 AM
But it is nice to see the animals out there weather you shoot one or not. If it should be all about being in the outdoors with family and friends then I would call that camping and leave your gun at home and not even buy a Lisc, tag, special permit, etc.
I see a lot of irony in this thread. Folks want more/ better deer......for what?, so we can go shoot them.
Not happy with deer numbers in WA so I’ll go hunt another state.
Another irony is seems that a lot of folks that have killed a lot of big bucks are the ones who are most adamant about saving the herds and calling for reduced opportunity.....hmmmm
If y’all continue to yearly take out the best breeders it’s not hard to see that is also part of the problem.
Have y’all forgot that hunting is more than killing a trophy buck every year?
It should be about family and friends enjoying the outdoors.......don’t need to kill a buck every year to do that.
If I wanted to go hang out with friends and not see any deer I can do that all summer, it’s called CAMPING.
So, ya both saying we should all be able to kill bucks every year?
Post by: Wunderlich33 on October 26, 2018, 11:15:37 AM
We need to be heard... We need to figure out how we can do this together...
Post by: bigmacc on October 26, 2018, 11:16:23 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 26, 2018, 11:19:16 AM
NOCK NOCK it has nothing to do with killing a trophy every year or harvesting a deer annually. It has everything to do with our resource numbers, management of our resources, and overall opportunity that the Washington State Hunters are provided. We fund the WDFW to manage these resources and poor management is all we see. Our herds are dramatically declining despite what the Bio's say and print. Our factual evidence has shown through field surveys by us hunters represent the bleak future we may have for hunting in Washington.That's a very solid comment. :tup:
We need to be heard... We need to figure out how we can do this together...
Post by: Wunderlich33 on October 26, 2018, 11:27:37 AM
Ive always enjoyed your thoughts and input you provide on this forum. You know better than most and have seen first hand the overall decline of our deer numbers. I'm over in Wenatchee quite a bit... I'll PM you my number I would like to buy you a cup of coffee and we can brainstorm some ideas?
This invite is open for everyone... if anyone else is interested lets get a head count together and pick a date. I will make the arrangements.
-Jeff
Post by: MtnMuley on October 26, 2018, 11:35:27 AM
Post by: MonstroMuley on October 26, 2018, 12:03:52 PM
But it is nice to see the animals out there weather you shoot one or not. If it should be all about being in the outdoors with family and friends then I would call that camping and leave your gun at home and not even buy a Lisc, tag, special permit, etc.
:yeah:
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on October 26, 2018, 12:50:40 PM
1. WDFW won't change anything because they are unwilling to lose the revenue. I'll call that one FALSE. Almost any scenario that can be envisioned can be done in a revenue neutral or revenue positive manner.
2. WDFW regularly surveys hunters about what they want, when it comes to deer hunting their most important criteria is: they want to hunt deer every year. However, there is a steady, increasing trend in the minority of hunters willing to sacrifice some opportunity in order to have higher quality opportunities; when they become a majority there will be change.
3. At least 35% of big game hunters residing in Washington don't hunt in Washington. I believe some of them, what proportion I don't know, do buy licenses to apply for quality buck and/or bull permits.
4. Three point minimum general mule deer hunting has negligible impacts on the deer population. It has other effects: reductions in mature buck escapement, especially in the resident (nonmigratory) herds; altered antler point configurations (more mature 2-points); increased wastage - 2 points shot and left. However, with unlimited, over the counter general season deer hunting, it is a necessary evil for mule deer hunting. As long as the does get bred - which is not a problem, pregnancy rates are high - 3-point minimum hunting is not limiting the population.
5. I see a lot of merit in going to regional general licenses. This allows everyone to hunt deer every year, but not multiple areas. I would propose Western, East Cascades (including Klickitat), Northeast, Columbia Basin and Southeast, with any buck for blacktail and whitetail, and 3-point minimum for mule deer. I think we would see a significant reduction in pressure on mule deer, with little increase in pressure on the other two species.
6. Herd health ( = population size, fawn recruitment and postseason buck escapement) needs to be the highest priority, over Resource Allocation (equalizing harvest rates between user groups), and over additional opportunities for quality deer and buck deer permits, 2nd deer, antlerless, youth, senior, disabled, Master Hunter etc. Herd health should be a metric measured by buck harvest trends and fawn recruitment (post season fawn abundance and end of winter fawn abundance). When buck harvest is below x in a region, no permits and no antlerless harvest except site-specific damage control. When buck harvest is between x and y, 10% of the previous season buck harvest can be allocated for antlerless permits. When between y and z, 20%. Above z, 30% or higher as determined by district and regional game managers. Modified as specified based on fawn numbers and survival.
A minimum buck escapement of 12-18 per 100 does, per species, in each region. If a region cannot maintain that escapement, reduce season length and/or cap the number of licenses and allocate by drawing.
This strategy could be implemented with existing data already collected by the Department. Limited doe harvest would be set by established criteria, and allocated toward current objectives BUT determined by herd health rather than the current competing demands of different interest groups.
This is one experienced game bios opinion.
7. Limited research dollars for game management would be allocated first to regions where buck harvest is below x, buck escapement is not being met, and fawn recruitment is low.
8. These specific regional objectives would be powerful tools in demonstrating where recruitment and survival are limiting. Not meeting specific objectives are powerful tools for land and population managers to implement necessary restrictions (closing winter ranges to motorized entry, liberalized predator hunting e.g. higher annual limits on bears, justification for allowing regional cougar hound hunts, increasing cougar quotas, wolf hunts/control), and allocating limited habitat improvement funds.
9. Multiseason permits (I'm not a fan btw, even though I have one currently and have had others) would be stratified by region or remain statewide, but would be excluded from Regions not meeting buck escapement or x harvest levels as described above.
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 26, 2018, 03:47:54 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 26, 2018, 04:40:39 PM
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Post by: argali on October 26, 2018, 05:52:51 PM
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 26, 2018, 08:19:19 PM
NOCK NOCK it has nothing to do with killing a trophy every year or harvesting a deer annually. It has everything to do with our resource numbers, management of our resources, and overall opportunity that the Washington State Hunters are provided. We fund the WDFW to manage these resources and poor management is all we see. Our herds are dramatically declining despite what the Bio's say and print. Our factual evidence has shown through field surveys by us hunters represent the bleak future we may have for hunting in Washington.
We need to be heard... We need to figure out how we can do this together...
Agreed.
Although I am neither against, or for, WDFW management, I can not justify putting all the blame on them.
WA has too many people, fires are rampant which creates greater visibility, which in turn allows more harvest, hunters love multi permits(more pressure on deer), Vehicles kill way more deer than hunters, predators do the same, poaching, tribal, etc.
If we can control the amount of deer needlessly killed, there would be a lot more of them for all to enjoy.
More fencing in high kill vehicle areas, do away with multi permits to reduce pressure, and better predator control will go a longgggg ways.
Post by: Mtnwalker on October 26, 2018, 08:33:45 PM
NOCK NOCK it has nothing to do with killing a trophy every year or harvesting a deer annually. It has everything to do with our resource numbers, management of our resources, and overall opportunity that the Washington State Hunters are provided. We fund the WDFW to manage these resources and poor management is all we see. Our herds are dramatically declining despite what the Bio's say and print. Our factual evidence has shown through field surveys by us hunters represent the bleak future we may have for hunting in Washington.
We need to be heard... We need to figure out how we can do this together...
Agreed.
Although I am neither against, or for, WDFW management, I can not justify putting all the blame on them.
WA has too many people, fires are rampant which creates greater visibility, which in turn allows more harvest, hunters love multi permits(more pressure on deer), Vehicles kill way more deer than hunters, predators do the same, poaching, tribal, etc.
If we can control the amount of deer needlessly killed, there would be a lot more of them for all to enjoy.
More fencing in high kill vehicle areas, do away with multi permits to reduce pressure, and better predator control will go a longgggg ways.
You keep mentioning vehicle mortality being higher than hunter kills, do you have any figures on this? The only number I can find is an estimate of 5200 combined deer and elk a year on the WSDOT website. Not trying to be argumentative, i'm actually curious.
Post by: MtnMuley on October 26, 2018, 09:44:35 PM
Post by: eliandsky on October 26, 2018, 10:21:04 PM
Hunting shouldn’t be easy and as I get older it only gets harder.
Good ole days are gone.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181027/274c5afff5b532b575cc146ad2bd45e1.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 27, 2018, 06:06:43 AM
There is absolutely no way vehicular kills are greater than hunter kills. Zero chance, and it's not even arguable.
To say this is not arguable........prove it!
There is absolutely NO way to prove this either way.
On average 24-30k deer are killed by hunters yearly.
WA DOT reports 5000+ are removed yearly by them. ***(This is only on Highways)
Salvage folks take 1000 +/-
How many are killed on non hwys?
By Trains?
Regardless of this, lots of deer are getting smacked by vehicles on their wintering grounds, LOTS.
*I drive 40+ hours a week at my day job, I see dead deer, every day, 365.
Post by: wolfbait on October 27, 2018, 04:42:44 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 27, 2018, 10:31:48 PM
There is absolutely no way vehicular kills are greater than hunter kills. Zero chance, and it's not even arguable.
To say this is not arguable........prove it!
There is absolutely NO way to prove this either way.
On average 24-30k deer are killed by hunters yearly.
WA DOT reports 5000+ are removed yearly by them. ***(This is only on Highways)
Salvage folks take 1000 +/-
How many are killed on non hwys?
By Trains?
Regardless of this, lots of deer are getting smacked by vehicles on their wintering grounds, LOTS.
*I drive 40+ hours a week at my day job, I see dead deer, every day, 365.
I refuse to indulge in stupidity these days. I'm sorry.
Post by: huntnphool on October 27, 2018, 11:17:49 PM
There is absolutely no way vehicular kills are greater than hunter kills. Zero chance, and it's not even arguable.
+1
Post by: NOCK NOCK on October 28, 2018, 06:30:43 AM
There is absolutely no way vehicular kills are greater than hunter kills. Zero chance, and it's not even arguable.
To say this is not arguable........prove it!
There is absolutely NO way to prove this either way.
On average 24-30k deer are killed by hunters yearly.
WA DOT reports 5000+ are removed yearly by them. ***(This is only on Highways)
Salvage folks take 1000 +/-
How many are killed on non hwys?
By Trains?
Regardless of this, lots of deer are getting smacked by vehicles on their wintering grounds, LOTS.
*I drive 40+ hours a week at my day job, I see dead deer, every day, 365.
I refuse to indulge in stupidity these days. I'm sorry.
Well I refuse to call names...….Have a good day sir.
Post by: MtnMuley on October 28, 2018, 09:30:17 AM
There is absolutely no way vehicular kills are greater than hunter kills. Zero chance, and it's not even arguable.
To say this is not arguable........prove it!
There is absolutely NO way to prove this either way.
On average 24-30k deer are killed by hunters yearly.
WA DOT reports 5000+ are removed yearly by them. ***(This is only on Highways)
Salvage folks take 1000 +/-
How many are killed on non hwys?
By Trains?
Regardless of this, lots of deer are getting smacked by vehicles on their wintering grounds, LOTS.
*I drive 40+ hours a week at my day job, I see dead deer, every day, 365.
I refuse to indulge in stupidity these days. I'm sorry.
Well I refuse to call names...….Have a good day sir.
Me replying that I will not indulge in stupidity to keep arguing and ruin an important thread isn't calling you names. Trust me, I have names I could call that you've never heard or rethought of..... :chuckle:
Anyhow, once again, I think we're both agree on many things in this part of the state. Let's not make a couple we disagree on stand out. :tup:
Post by: stickslinger on October 28, 2018, 04:27:10 PM